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China military holds drills in waters near Korean PeninsulaBEIJING – China's defense ministry says it has carried out drills in waters near the Korean Peninsula amid tensions over Pyongyang's most recent nuclear test. The drills Tuesday came two days after North Korea said it exploded a hydrogen bomb. While it is usual for the Chinese military to hold drills in the Bohai Sea off its northeastern coast, the timing of the exercise has drawn special attention. The defense ministry said the exercise was aimed at "boosting the forces expulsion mission capability." It said the drills had been pre-planned as part of routine training. The statement posted late Wednesday on the ministry's official Sina Weibo account said the drills are not aimed at any specific nations or targets. http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/09/07/...-peninsula.html-Hmmmm, interesting.
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Dennis Rodman -- who sang karaoke with Kim Jong-Un -- says he could help leader change his tune“I don’t love (Kim). I just want to try to straighten things out for everyone to get along together,” he said. http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/09/07/...-his-tune.html?-You go Worm! 
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Trump should use any possibility at his disposal and Rodman is one of them.
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Its important to understand one thing. There is no winners and losers in something like this with NK.
Once ANYONE shoots of a nuke, no matter which side, our way of life as we know it is OVER
there will be no more USA
there will be no police to protect you
there will be no more government or any kind of social order.
the minute news gets announced that someone launched a nuke, within 72 hours the USA will be complete anarchy. A complete and total break down of social services as you know it. The police will lose control quickly, and the military will be too busy dealing with the nuke and everything else to have time to dela with social unrest at home.
So please stop this nonsense talk about us "winning" if NK launches nukes we won't win...all hell will break loose of a scale you can not possibly comprehend...even our governments disaster preps will be nothing compared to what will happen.
The Trade winds will carry those radioactive particles right here to the USA no matter where it lands...people in japan puked up their spleens while dying an awful agonizing death due to over exposure to radiation.
Anyone who wants a war with NK doesn't understand what will happen and isn't thinking things through clearly.
The second a missile goes in the air, complete chaos will erupt in the USA like nothing you have ever witnessesed, it will be then the majority realize our government can't protect them....and complete and total break down of social services nationwide...thats just the start.
If you want to call growing up and living in a world much like Fallout 4...please by all means...continue down the current path... So please stop this nonsense talk about their being a winner...once one country pulls the trigger they all will..it will be the end of life as we know it...its madness to even be talking about this.
our President needs to put his big boy pants on, gove over to NK, sit down with the guy and have a reasonable discussion of what it would take to work things out. and go from there...not this nosense we have been doing..
Last edited by Knight_Of_Brown; 09/07/17 12:47 PM.
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Its important to understand one thing. There is no winners and losers in something like this with NK.
Once ANYONE shoots of a nuke, no matter which side, our way of life as we know it is OVER
there will be no more USA
there will be no police to protect you
there will be no more government or any kind of social order.
the minute news gets announced that someone launched a nuke, within 72 hours the USA will be complete anarchy. A complete and total break down of social services as you know it. The police will lose control quickly, and the military will be too busy dealing with the nuke and everything else to have time to dela with social unrest at home.
So please stop this nonsense talk about us "winning" if NK launches nukes we won't win...all hell will break loose of a scale you can not possibly comprehend...even our governments disaster preps will be nothing compared to what will happen.
The Trade winds will carry those radioactive particles right here to the USA no matter where it lands...people in japan puked up their spleens while dying an awful agonizing death due to over exposure to radiation.
Anyone who wants a war with NK doesn't understand what will happen and isn't thinking things through clearly.
The second a missile goes in the air, complete chaos will erupt in the USA like nothing you have ever witnessesed, it will be then the majority realize our government can't protect them....and complete and total break down of social services nationwide...thats just the start.
If you want to call growing up and living in a world much like Fallout 4...please by all means...continue down the current path... So please stop this nonsense talk about their being a winner...once one country pulls the trigger they all will..it will be the end of life as we know it...its madness to even be talking about this.
our President needs to put his big boy pants on, gove over to NK, sit down with the guy and have a reasonable discussion of what it would take to work things out. and go from there...not this nosense we have been doing..
All this from one or two NK Nukes hitting us? Nah. When I was a kid, America set Nukes off all the time out West, above ground no less, to the point we had to stop drinking milk because the cows ate the radioactive grass. If Trump went over for a sit down with Kim, Kim would pull a pistol and shoot him. Guy is nuts. China is the key to backing this down, and America standing strong in the face of Kim's threats.
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Its important to understand one thing. There is no winners and losers in something like this with NK.
Once ANYONE shoots of a nuke, no matter which side, our way of life as we know it is OVER
there will be no more USA
there will be no police to protect you
there will be no more government or any kind of social order.
the minute news gets announced that someone launched a nuke, within 72 hours the USA will be complete anarchy. A complete and total break down of social services as you know it. The police will lose control quickly, and the military will be too busy dealing with the nuke and everything else to have time to dela with social unrest at home.
So please stop this nonsense talk about us "winning" if NK launches nukes we won't win...all hell will break loose of a scale you can not possibly comprehend...even our governments disaster preps will be nothing compared to what will happen.
The Trade winds will carry those radioactive particles right here to the USA no matter where it lands...people in japan puked up their spleens while dying an awful agonizing death due to over exposure to radiation.
Anyone who wants a war with NK doesn't understand what will happen and isn't thinking things through clearly.
The second a missile goes in the air, complete chaos will erupt in the USA like nothing you have ever witnessesed, it will be then the majority realize our government can't protect them....and complete and total break down of social services nationwide...thats just the start.
If you want to call growing up and living in a world much like Fallout 4...please by all means...continue down the current path... So please stop this nonsense talk about their being a winner...once one country pulls the trigger they all will..it will be the end of life as we know it...its madness to even be talking about this.
our President needs to put his big boy pants on, gove over to NK, sit down with the guy and have a reasonable discussion of what it would take to work things out. and go from there...not this nosense we have been doing..
All this from one or two NK Nukes hitting us? Nah. When I was a kid, America set Nukes off all the time out West, above ground no less, to the point we had to stop drinking milk because the cows ate the radioactive grass. If Trump went over for a sit down with Kim, Kim would pull a pistol and shoot him. Guy is nuts. China is the key to backing this down, and America standing strong in the face of Kim's threats. I agree China is a part, but i still stand by what i said...if either side starts shooting Nukes, the life we know is over. Testing and actual Nuke War is two different things.
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America standing strong in the face of Kim's threats. Yep..by having naval destroyers ramming into deadly and dangerous container ships, and oil tankers. That should scare the poop out of NK.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
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Arguably "political prostitute" is a good description for Haley. Everything else in that article is just propaganda for the Media to spin.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
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our President needs to put his big boy pants on, gove over to NK, sit down with the guy and have a reasonable discussion of what it would take to work things out. and go from there...not this nosense we have been doing.. You do realize we have gone down the diplomatic approach for over 30 years with NK, correct? All that has done is strengthen them militarily, and most recently allowed them to obtain nuclear capabilities. The "nonsense" we have been doing is what you are suggesting we do. Please learn history of the situation and understand what has been happening for over 30 years.
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[/quote] Arguably "political prostitute" is a good description for Haley. Everything else in that article is just propaganda for the Media to spin. [/quote]
That would make the dems a "wall street prostitute" no?
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You cant have a reasonable discussion with a crazy person. Which is why the diplomatic solution will only go through China.
No Craps Given
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but maybe two crazy people can have a discussion?
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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No Craps Given
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And Trump told them if they threatened us again....... Fire and fury?
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That would make the dems a "wall street prostitute" no?
You might want to take a look at Trumps cabinet before acting like that's a one sided thing. Both parties are just as guilty of this one.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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That would make the dems a "wall street prostitute" no?
You might want to take a look at Trumps cabinet before acting like that's a one sided thing. Both parties are just as guilty of this one. Could care less about his cabinet and more about the policies. Not a trump fan myself, however Obamas policies let Large Banks take over and push smaller ones out of business. All the regs and guidelines made it impossible for smaller banks to operate, while letting the larger wall street criminals take over. weird is it not that 98% of money funded in the campaigns went to one person?
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Yeah, big business hates a big business person as president that plans to give them huge tax breaks. They hate to have a president that wishes to roll back regulations on them. It's so obvious that both parties are in the pockets of big business. You might wish to take those blinders off.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Yeah, big business hates a big business person as president that plans to give them huge tax breaks. They hate to have a president that wishes to roll back regulations on them. It's so obvious that both parties are in the pockets of big business. You might wish to take those blinders off. Say what you want, proof is in the money. Large banks increasedtheir profits under O, fact. Small local savings banks went out of business, fact. 98% of Wall St money went to hilldog, fact. Post something other than opinion to the contrary, and I will hear your argument.
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Also, who is the one that has hung around billionares and gave million dollar speeches to banks since Jan?
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We are getting off topic, however.
The fact remains, every president (democrat and republican) has tried to be diplomatic with NK, and it has failed miserably. NK has not obtained NUKES in 8 months, they have been obtaining them for years as we have talked their ears off about peace, they have had their fingers crossed under the table.
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So Trump trying to cut regulation for big business is an opinion? Trump trying to get a huge tax cut for big business is an opinion? No, they're not.
I'm not trying to say the Dems aren't crooked for big business. But then so is the other side.
You can live in denial while Trump works to line their pockets if you wish. But that won't change anything. You said you cared about his policies. Until I pointed them out to you. Now you say you'll ignore them.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Trump is not cutting regs or taxes for big business, he is cutting regs and taxes for ALL business.
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The fact remains, every president (democrat and republican) has tried to be diplomatic with NK, and it has failed miserably. NK has not obtained NUKES in 8 months, they have been obtaining them for years as we have talked their ears off about peace, they have had their fingers crossed under the table. I agree with you. But what do you say a good option is here? My point was that Trump is really no different than Obama here. Obama painted that "red line in the sand" with Syria. When Syria crossed it, Obama blinked. Now we have Trump who told N. Korea that if they threatened the U.S., there would be fire and fury. Well N. Korea just crossed that line as well. The right raised holy hell when Obama did it, but where's the outrage now? I don't see a good end game with N. Korea. The reason that diplomacy hasn't worked is because Kim knows he's the one in a position of strength. He can flatten S. Korea and Japan with a snap of his fingers. If we attack him, there will be hundreds of thousands of deaths in Japan and S. Korea. Kim knows this, we know this and Japan as well as N. Korea and S. Korea know this. And the fact is, in all of out wars and conflicts since WW2, we have NEVER had such a conflict with a nation that possesses nuclear weapons. I don't see a winning strategy here and I don't envy being in Trumps shoes right now.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Well any way you look at it, Kim Sucks.
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So Trump trying to cut regulation for big business is an opinion? Trump trying to get a huge tax cut for big business is an opinion? No, they're not.
I'm not trying to say the Dems aren't crooked for big business. But then so is the other side.
You can live in denial while Trump works to line their pockets if you wish. But that won't change anything. You said you cared about his policies. Until I pointed them out to you. Now you say you'll ignore them. Do you have a link to a tax reform plan that proves anything you are saying? Its funny, you guys on the left will say "he isn't getting anything done, or accomplishing anything he said he was going too" yet the next breath you say "he is cutting taxes for big business" Want to know a little secret about that, corporations in the US already pay the highest tax rate in the world. They also pay for the VAST majority of the tax revenue the US Government takes in. Again we are getting off topic, but you want to complain about taxes, start with the places where they are not paying any.
Last edited by willitevachange; 09/08/17 02:41 PM.
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Sometimes it's not about winning when it comes to diplomacy.
it's just about making the best decisions to save lives.
I hope Trump will understand that before this things gets to the point of no return. Sometimes there's only a bad deal, or a worse deal.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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The fact remains, every president (democrat and republican) has tried to be diplomatic with NK, and it has failed miserably. NK has not obtained NUKES in 8 months, they have been obtaining them for years as we have talked their ears off about peace, they have had their fingers crossed under the table. I agree with you. But what do you say a good option is here? My point was that Trump is really no different than Obama here. Obama painted that "red line in the sand" with Syria. When Syria crossed it, Obama blinked. Now we have Trump who told N. Korea that if they threatened the U.S., there would be fire and fury. Well N. Korea just crossed that line as well. The right raised holy hell when Obama did it, but where's the outrage now? I don't see a good end game with N. Korea. The reason that diplomacy hasn't worked is because Kim knows he's the one in a position of strength. He can flatten S. Korea and Japan with a snap of his fingers. If we attack him, there will be hundreds of thousands of deaths in Japan and S. Korea. Kim knows this, we know this and Japan as well as N. Korea and S. Korea know this. And the fact is, in all of out wars and conflicts since WW2, we have NEVER had such a conflict with a nation that possesses nuclear weapons. I don't see a winning strategy here and I don't envy being in Trumps shoes right now. The ideal scenario is neither diplomatic nor non military. The ideal is to convince China it is in their best interest to allow us to take him out quickly and quietly. will this happen, probably not. China has too much involved in Kim to let him go out. Kim only cares about himself, he doesn't care how many people die, as long as its not him. He knows in a war, he will be in a bunker somewhere safe. We need to make it clear that he is not, and anything goes down, he is our first target. Nothing has been done since the threat, you are correct. But one thing Trump has been steadfast on and actually truthful on is that he will not give away any notice of military plans. Could we bring fury tomorrow, next week, next month? Just because nothing has happened yet, does not mean it wont. We know Obama didn't do anything. Trump TO DATE has not.
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Sometimes it's not about winning when it comes to diplomacy.
it's just about making the best decisions to save lives.
I hope Trump will understand that before this things gets to the point of no return. Sometimes there's only a bad deal, or a worse deal. I get what you saying there, and agree. Sometimes you have to fold your bluff after you bluffed so to say. I will ask you this, lets say we keep the diplomatic approach, kim continues his weapons and then 6 months from now fires a nuke at the US in the middle of the night and 5 million US citizens are dead. I rather gamble with lives of SK then lives of US citizens, call me insensitive or not, but I put my country and countrymen ahead of anyone else.
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I think you need to learn the difference between a stated tax rate and the effective tax rate. The effective tax rate is what a corporation actually pays after deductions and loopholes. They're not the same thing.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Also SWISH:
I think he has proven so far, that when it comes to things like this - he relies heavily on his Generals Input and Mad Dog Mattis.
You can hate the guy all you want, and I won't disagree with most of it, but so far he has showed that he does listen to what the Generals feel is the best option for anything when it comes to military action - or anything involving the military. You don't run a Billion dollar company and not know that you have to take advice of the people on the ground and in the know on certain issues. Its his final decision, yes. But look at the Syria Strike. Regardless if you agreed with it, it was one of multiple options given to him by Mattis, and recommended to him as the best option.
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As long as he takes their advice, we should be okay.
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Sometimes it's not about winning when it comes to diplomacy.
it's just about making the best decisions to save lives.
I hope Trump will understand that before this things gets to the point of no return. Sometimes there's only a bad deal, or a worse deal. I get what you saying there, and agree. Sometimes you have to fold your bluff after you bluffed so to say. I will ask you this, lets say we keep the diplomatic approach, kim continues his weapons and then 6 months from now fires a nuke at the US in the middle of the night and 5 million US citizens are dead. I rather gamble with lives of SK then lives of US citizens, call me insensitive or not, but I put my country and countrymen ahead of anyone else. The difference is that we have more than enough time to shoot down a missile coming from NK to mainland US. unlike civilians, the military doesn't sleep at night. we operate a lot at night. we're 24/7. so it's not gambling with US lives, it's definitely gambling with south korean and japanese lives. We already proven that we have successful test of shooting down missiles, however it's not a 100% success rate. And that's difference again: we can kill a missile before it hits the US, but such close distance like Japan or SK is a real problem. and it's not just nukes. NK has artillery that can level Seoul before we had a chance to respond. Also, better believe that if NK does anything, either two things has happened: 1. he got the full backing of Russia, and maybe China, to proceed with War, or 2. He went Rogue, and if such happens, China already said they would be hands off if NK strikes first. #2 isn't gonna happen. the thing fat boy and his family love more than the threat of war is the real power of being a dictatorship. They know that if they did anything first it's the end of their empire, period. so the US attacking NK first doesn't guarantee the safety of American lives; it only guarantees the massacre of north and south korean and japanese civilians.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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As far as your comments on THADD missile defense system, we are not near perfect on TEST, which we know when, where, and what type of missile is being fired. That does not bode well for my liking. If we cannot shoot it out the sky with a 100% success rate when we know where and what is coming, I find it hard to believe it will be anywhere near 50/50 when we don't.
Wish Obama would have not underfunded that program (not a shot at him, just a fact. he diverted funds from it).
As far as your points 1. 2.
Not doing anything and continuing on the diplomatic approach does not guarantee the safety of American, Japanese, or SK lives either. You are assuming diplomacy will work, when it has not for 30 years. I do know however that a nuke hitting the US or a territory, is more concerning to me than bringing the fight there. I am sorry for that line of thinking, but when its a toss up of Japan, SK, or innocent US civilians, I take the safe bet of not letting the US civilians get bombed.
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Good talk tho, SWISH. At least we can discuss without trying to berate each other like others just because we have different opinions.
Anywho, im about to dip out of work here, so Ill have to follow up on this Monday. I don't get on over the weekends.
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As long as he takes their advice, we should be okay. And if their advice is to attack NK
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As long as he takes their advice, we should be okay. And if their advice is to attack NK They're not that foolish. They know the logistics and total devastation to human life.
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I'm not assuming diplomacy will work, i'm hoping it will work.
one option guarantees a death toll in the millions, while the other at least gives us options and hopes to divert War.
again, as i've already said, we aren't 100% on success test, but we have a good rate, and we also have beyond multiple chances if one was launch to mainland US and not SK or Japan.
the flaw in your argument is that you ARE assuming War will work, when the reality is that if we strike first, China WILL join the fight against us, and Russia might. There is a high probably that China completely ignores war in NK and tries to invade Japan, as they are there for the picking.
Our military is already spread thin between forces in the Middle East, Europe, and AFRICOM. launching a major campaign in South east asia, especially with the possibility of two superpowers joining the fight AGAINST us, would leave us possibly wrecked and completely open to a counterstrike on mainland US. They wouldn't be able to successfully invade the West coast, but they will do enough damage to completely wreck any standing and credibility we have with the world on foreign policy and...well, anything.
at that point, we aren't talking just about lives, but the end of an empire and the US being the undisputed leader of the free world.
i'll take diplomacy for 500, Alex.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 25,823
Legend
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OP
Legend
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 25,823 |
You have to have more than one person at the negotiation table to negotiate. Kim ain't interested. He only says, "I Kill You!"
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