DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2017 NFL Season Looking Back: Browns 18 Steelers 21 Post Game Thoughts

You're right, and I don't hate to see it, and it's not just young QBs. When everyone is covered deep, an open check down can often lead to big yards and/or first downs. With Crow, Duke & Dayes all able to catch out of the backfield, plus a couple pass catching TEs, it's silly not to have a safety valve there for Kizer, especially on deep balls.

On a play like that just throw the challenge flag no matter what. You're going to use a timeout either way.

some bright spots IMO:

- Kindred. Way improved IMO.

- Shon Coleman. Wasn't as bad as anticipated.

- Ogunjobi. He looks the part of a good interior DL.

- Kirksey. He's so versatile in the pass game. Valuable.

- Peppers. He looks the part to me.

- Coleman. Looks more reliable and tougher.

- Zane/Colquitt. We didn't notice the kickers, which is good.

- BBC. Would have liked to see him matched up with Brown. He's a legit pro IMO.



Bad spots

- Britt. BLAH. Get him out of here. We've seen this song and dance before.

- Crow. Perhaps his worst game as a Brown ... pass pro was awful.

- Overall pressure from DL. I know they were getting it out quickly, but we never got near Ben.

There was somebody who was watching and live tweeting yesterday.

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2017/9/10/16285416/vontaze-burfict-shares-steelers-dirty-plays-twitter


Bengals LB Vontaze Burfict shares Steelers’ dirty plays on Twitter


95 comments

The Steelers were head hunting on Sunday in their season opener against the Browns and Vontaze Burfict wants to make sure everyone knows about it.

by Rebecca Toback@Rebecca_Toback Sep 10, 2017, 9:52pm EDT


Photo by Justin K. Aller/Getty Images


Cincinnati Bengals linebacker Vontaze Burfict is currently at home serving his three-game suspension to open the 2017 NFL season.


Like many NFL fans, Burfict noticed the Pittsburgh Steelers were busy making questionable hits and decision on Sunday in their season opener against the Cleveland Browns. The Steelers came away with a 21-18 win in Cleveland.




One of the above-mentioned plays that Burfict tweeted about was a hit by Steelers linebacker Ryan Shazier on Browns quarterback Deshone Kizer. This was a blatant cheap shot and headhunting by Shazier, and not unlike hits we’ve seen from him in the past. (Remember his hit on Giovani Bernard in the Bengals vs Steelers wild card game in January 2016... Yes, it was technically legal, but it was also a cheap shot. OK, now forget about that, because we’ve all had enough Bengals negativity for one day.)

Burfict retweeted this post, which shows the hit:


Burfict’s other tweet was in regards to Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger twisting the ankle of Browns defensive end Emmanuel Ogbah, for no reason other than being dirty.




“Bruhhhh,” Burfict wrote of Roethlisberger’s actions.


There was also this play from Steelers cornerback William Gay, who laid out Browns wide receiver Ricardo Louis with a hit to the head. Burfict must have missed this one...



Will the NFL take notice? Or, will they continue to let the Steelers get a pass?

I think it's his way of trying to excuse his own dirty hits. Because the guy is a dirty player himself.

The Steelers were stacking the line. That seems to be the standard D play against us that started last year. Stack the line with 7 or 8 guys and dare our QB's to throw it. That's why we need our WR's to stretch the field and CATCH the ball when it's thrown to them!!! Maybe Coates and Kassen can do this when they learn the O.

Njoku didn't do much, but the first time I saw him I though, "That is a very big human."

Dude is huge.

I was just thinking Hue deserves props for getting Kizer ready to play, and Kizer deserves props for the work he put in to get ready. Initially I was hoping Brock would develop to the point we wouldn't need Kizer this year, but given the performances throughout TC & the preseason it seems Hue took the correct approach in getting the QB ready who, not only gives us the best chance, could be our future at QB.

Might I propose Seth DeValve as his safety valve?

Part of the problem with the running game was operating out of the Shot Gun Sooooooo much ! ( FOR Kiser )

Would that be a Sethty DeValve?

I think the discussion is open for proposals. lol

Seth's new nickname should be "Safe". Then have him run out into the flat after 2 seconds of blocking.

This is devalving into a series of horrible puns.

I can't add anything to what has already been said. In the game day thread, I said what I expected was improved D and OL. I definitely saw better D. I also said that, win or lose, I wanted Pitt to leave town knowing they had been in a real NFL game. That was accomplished. The fans may not have noticed, but the team knows they were in a fight.

Ouch. Puns harm ignorant bystanders. They are least tolerated by those most incapable of making (and getting!) them. I think Ben Franklin said that or something close to it.

And I agree with your post.

The defense was as advertised - quick and physical, great improvement. Kindred and Schobert stood out. I'm not certain about the (very) deep single safety but Peppers didn't look out of place.

Kizer looked decent for his first start but to echo a lot of others - we need to be a top 10 running team to give him any chance this year. The Steelers' D is good but we had too many runs for little or negative yardage. I appreciate it was all out of the shotgun but we need to be able to make it 3rd and manageable. Hopefully chemistry with one or two receivers will start to build - Coleman also impressed me.

I also liked the fact Hue was always talking to Kizer after he came off. I think we have a fighting chance at finding a QB with Hue.

Overall the team feels like it has a different vibe. I think they believed they could win. So did I. Cincy and Baltimore look vulnerable. We are better than last year no doubt.

I hear About running out of the gun. Didn't Pitt have most of there runs out of the gun.

You can't grade on an absentee. Dayes did pass block well in the preseason.

I think Zagura mentioned that Crow averaged 6ypc out of the gun last year. The lack of run game had more to do with pit stacking the line and (to a lesser extent) Crow perhaps not hitting the (correct?) hole.

I don't think it was a game management issue as much as it was that the NFL still has not clearly defined when a catch is a catch and when it's not. Hue saw the same exact replay the ref ended up seeing.. it's not that you see something different, it's that the rule is vague as to when the play is over on a play like that. You used to have to catch it, come down with it, get up with it, walk to sidelines with it, sit down with it, take a shower with it.. then it was a catch. Evidently there is now a point at which you are rolling around on the ground but the catch is over.. where that point is doesn't seem all that clear.

j/c....sort of.

On the radio this morning Jim Donovan was giving his thoughts on the game...here is my attempt at paraphrasing:

-Crowell missed more than a few holes and went the wrong way. Donovan doesn't think running from the shotgun plays to Crow's strength.

-Donovan thinks Hue needs to ease up on the pre-snap movements as too often the Browns had to hurry up to beat the play clock. That frantic action caused trouble in executing the play.

-Donovan was critical of the OL and specifically mentioned the struggles of the C.

-Donovan stated that the WRs had trouble getting open in general.

-He was quite pleased with what he saw out of Kizer.

I kept/keep thinking of two plays that we botched completely on our own accord. Not times when we were stopped or beaten...just out there all by our one-sy:

1.)Kenny Britt's drop...wide open...room to run. Unbelievable. 2.)K Williams not knowing where is the sideline. Just for giggles, add those catches to Kizer's stats. It's one thing when you get beat or out-played by another guy or when the bad guy simply makes a play...it's an entirely different animal to bone up a big play with no one there to stop you.

Williams had no choice but to go out of bounds. That ball was headed that way regardless.

A joke springs to mind involving his girl, probably best left untold.

If you're Hue, you have to challenge that. He did the right thing. I can live with him losing that challenge. I don't think any of us would be good with him not challenging that.

I 100% agree that the referees and the league need to get together and decide what a catch is, because right now nobody is on the same page. If you want to call Antonio Brown's play a catch, that's fine, but that better be consistent.

It was a mismanagement. Why call a TO, then throw the challenge? Just throw the flag. That way you only use 1 TO at worst. This way, we used 2.

I disagree.

Ball was caught. Time out, instantly.

Hey, wait a minute.........maybe it wasn't a catch after seeing it again.

Red flag thrown.

Dang, it was a catch.

Hind sight is very useful............for those that have to make decisions AFTER the fact.

The first timeout was understandable. It was the challenge of the play IMO (and apparently only mine haha) that was unwise.

Agreed I remember Kizer throwing that one and it was far to over

Because nobody realized it was a drop until the replay showed it. By then he had already called timeout.

That pass was 100% Kizer's fault. It's not like Williams drifted out of bounds and then came back onto the field to make the catch. And it's not like he was standing on a spot in-bounds when the pass came his way. He ran to a spot where the ball was going and it was out of bounds. There is no way a receiver, looking back over his shoulder and adjusting to the path of the ball while on the run, can know where the sideline is and attempt to make some sort of circus catch.

If it's an out-route, then yes, he should of put the landing gear down. If he floated out of bounds in the first couple steps of his release, then yes, he's at fault. But on fly-route like that, Kizer's got to put it in a place where he's standing in bounds after he catches it.

And honestly, I'm not even that mad at Kizer for the pass. he missed it by 6 inches, and most our previous QB would of missed it by yards if they even attempted the throw in the first place.

I'd be interested to see a stat that showed the seconds from snap to sack. If it was 2.5 or more, seems that would be on the QB? Less would be on the OL.

I've thought about this some more today and I'm coming around to your perspective. I can see how it would play out exactly as you stated. Assuming Hue thought it was a catch, he calls a TO to stop the clock. The challenge was a secondary decision.

I would argue that if it's a close play like that just use the challenge in place of a TO. But that could be wasting a challenge on a perfectly good play.

I think I was too quick to judge that particular play.

reposted out of respect.

This is exactly my impression, as well.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/27325...cohen-break-out

DeShone Kizer, the fourth quarterback selected in the 2017 NFL draft, was the first signal-caller in his class to start a game. While the Cleveland Browns fell to the Pittsburgh Steelers, 21-18, he showed some of the flashes that earned him the starting job in camp. Kizer was by no means perfect Sunday, but he demonstrated he can be the face of the Browns franchise going forward.

All rookie quarterbacks face an adjustment to the speed of the professional game. Players are faster, the throwing windows are smaller and when the defense rolls its coverage, it comes later in the play and much closer to the snap. To account for those differences, Kizer needs to speed up his mental processing.

On many of the sacks he took Sunday, he was too slow to go through his progressions or to throw the ball away. One such play came on a max-protection concept, with only two receivers running pass patterns. Kizer was flushed to his left, away from the play design, but he tried to stay upright and work back toward the right to stay on structure. In such moments, he needs to get rid of the ball and move on to the next down. On his interception, he stared down the route concept and never felt the underneath zone coverage, throwing a bad-looking pick.

On the bright side, Kizer seemed to speed up his processing as the game went on. Perhaps his best drive Sunday was on Cleveland's final offensive possession, which he capped off with his first regular-season touchdown pass and a successful two-point conversion to get the Browns within three points in the closing minutes. When Cleveland went uptempo, Kizer seemed more comfortable and quicker with his decision-making. His post route to Ricardo Louis that went for a 29-yard gain is a perfect example. Kizer confirmed the coverage, hit the final step of his drop and got the ball out right on time with good velocity and placement.

Kizer is by no means a finished product, as he must continue improving his processing speed in particular. But his play in the final minutes against Pittsburgh and the growth he seemed to show throughout Sunday bodes well for him and the Browns moving forward.

— NFL1000 QB Scout, Mark Schofield

Browns played a nice game Sunday. I think y'all are onto something with this group. I advise every one of you.....if you hear any rumblings about another coaching or regime change in the next 3 years.....every single Browns fan in the country needs to storm the gates of the Browns front office with torches and pitchforks. Consistency and stability is absolutely key to turning this thing around permanently. It seems to be on the right track. Derailing it would be the worst mistake ever.

Anyways, we will do it all again in a couple months. Cheers.

Spot. On.

Although I like this coaching and GM staff, there are things that a glaringly wrong,
1) Apparently, we cannot evaluate WR talent. With all the picks we have made at that position, Britt has not lived up to his paycheck. Then, when are some of these younger players going to emerge.
2) The Browns have not found an answer to the right side of the o-line. From our Center to Right tackle, we still have some problems. And we cannot run LEFT EVERY PLAY. Some of that, Kizer has to check out of.
3) Does Hue not believe in a swing pass to a RB or some scheme that puts Duke one on one with a LB.

But there were some bright spots which give me hope.