- Kizer's a rookie. He's going to make mistakes and he's going to get confused by defensive looks. That's one of the reasons I like sitting rookies for as long as they can. So that they can get used to defensive looks and game speed without getting crushed play after play.
- That said, I was really pleased with what I saw out of him. Went downfield when needed. Looked composed in the pocket. Made a couple of NFL throws. I hope we don't ruin him.
- I was much more disappointed with the run game. Crowell couldn't break any tackles and continuously ran into the back of the line. Johnson got hurts and Dayes didn't really do much either. If we want a rookie QB to be successful we MUST get a run game going so we don't put all the pressure on Kizer to carry the offense.
- The Defense was as good as I had hoped. We finally have a legit D! We completely shut down their run game.
- I'd say the one thing we really miss is Joe Haden ... not the current one, but the 2014 version. If we had a guy like 2014 Joe out there covering Brown, the Steelers' Offense would of been completely shut down.
- I'm also glad the Refs finally started calling all that head-hunting/cheap crap that the Steelers usually get away with. I hope they get a few thousand dollars in fines as well.
- All said, really proud of the Browns today. Lost by 3 to a team that many have in the AFC Championship game. We were right in it until the end. Something we couldn't say a lot last year. And that's with the youngest team in the NFL, a QB starting his first game as a pro, and our #1 draft pick on the sidelines. We are looking much better!
Defense held them to 14 points. Should've been enough. OL allowed seven sacks and there was no running game. Thought OL was fixed, but it was the problem.
I saw real growth and signs for the future. The defense was really good. I think Kizer could be the real thing. I think Kenny Britt may be useless. The most important thing though was that this looked and felt like a real football team.
Defense held them to 14 points. Should've been enough. OL allowed seven sacks and there was no running game. Thought OL was fixed, but it was the problem.
OL was fine. WRs were the main problem. The sacks were from rookie indecision not pressure
I feel like we competed with one of the top teams is the AFC
If we can play like this every week we are going to win some games this year. The defense is looking to develop into a top tier NFL defense and as expected they are ahead of the offense.
An offense is all about repetitions and timing, I think Kizer is going to be a good one and as he shows the ability to burn teams down the field defenses are going to start backing off the line and opening the running game up.
Kizer looked like a rookie (duh). However that last drive was nice to watch. He's going to be up and down all year, but he's already 1000% better than weeden was.
I saw the steelers lead with their helmets on quite a few hits, if the league actually cared about safety they should be ejected.
Love our defense, we haven't seen run defense like this since I don't know when. Our QB had plenty of time.
How thin we are at receiver I think will dictate what we do once Gordon returns. A combination of Gordon and Coleman (providing Gordon really kept himself in game condition) will be formidable.
Our run blocking still needs improvement.
Brightest spot, Kizer. This is the closest we've seen in a LONG TIME to a franchise QB. Rookie mistakes? Sure, Payton Manning had em too.
It's his first game in his first year, he seems like he's got it between the ears to learn and improve, which is the most important thing for a QB.
And every year we always have players whom we think we be great...but regress...Jamar Taylor got ate alive...I can't remember ever seeing a CB of ours taking 11/11 182...
Thank god Leveon Bell was rusty...it would have been worse...
Well.... the defense did a fantastic job, especially without their #1 draft pick. When he gets back, the line should be even more disruptive, especially in 4 & 3 man fronts. Garrett would have caused some problems for the Steeler tackles.
The offense will catch up to the defense. Our young QB will get faster and the game will being to slow down. He will correct the mistakes. The timing is off for our WR & QBs. As Kiser get comfortable, he will release faster. The running game was okay. Drops, penalties, and miscues hurt us.
Defense held them to 14 points. Should've been enough. OL allowed seven sacks and there was no running game. Thought OL was fixed, but it was the problem.
Most of those were on Kizer holding the ball to long. Typical Browns player desperate to make a play.
much better outing than normal against pittsburgh, we hit them in the mouth and made them commit costly penalties and frustrated them into cheap shots. Def growth. I still think we need more help at WR, hopefully some of the new guys will help once they get some reps.
Kizer's two main issues, holding the ball and overthrowing wide open receivers. But lets be honest here, asking a rookie QB to carry the load against a top 5 team in his first game is stupid, really casts more doubts on if Hue is able to be a head coach. should have run run run run. instead, kizer had a day full of 3rd and 15+. Be interesting to see how the game plan looks next week
They're not slouches this year. If it wasn't for the dismal first series, they might have pulled this one off. I guess I will have to wait another year to be 'undefeated'.
Look you start a Rookie QB running Jackson's Offense and the out come was pretty predictable . The D played a nice .. We knew we where going to be light in the Defensive back field going into the game .. As I have mentioned before , we where basically playing with only Three wide outs . Made a game out of it !
We stood toe to toe with our arch rival and one of the top 5 teams in the league. That's something to be proud of. DK played well. He made mistakes but that is to be expected and will happen all year. By the way, how did Shon Colemen do?
Dumb challenge at the end. Wasted a valuable timeout because it was obviously a catch.
Thought our D was really fast and hungry, fun to watch. They'll keep us in a lot of games this year. Kizer was solid, held on to the ball too long at times but definitely flashed. He looks to have good pocket presence. Bad throw on the INT but these are learning times. He is going to get better, I think we may have a QB. They got lucky late in the second quarter when Schoebert tipped the pass but the squealer still caught it for the long gain.
Wanted the win but I'm overall happy with our performance today.
Very inspired by this performance, almost beat a superbowl contending team. No Garret, blocked punt on opening drive for a td, dropped passes and a rookie qb that took too many sacks by his own doing. Sky is the limit for this young team that has so much room to grow and more talent to add. Defense played well held to 14 points, very easily could have won this game. Whole different team this year. BTW pittsburgh is still a dirty team, so many helmet to helmet hits, glad they got flagged this time.
A fluke block killed us. D was improved but DB upgrades would be great. QB play was within the boundaries of what I thought would be acceptable. Running game lacks. WRs are mostly horrible. Ultimately we saw better football than ALL of last season. We held a considered NFL powerhouse on the ropes for the whole game. I'm good with the effort today and think this team can win a few games.
1) Why is Chris Tabor still our Special Teams coach? Another block, and in the end zone for a touchdown? 2) Kenny Britt got thrown the ball his way once, on a second and long. We needed him to catch it and he blew it. I've slowly become more and more disappointed in him. 3) I noticed Sammy Coates quite a bit on special teams. I'm really hoping him and Kasen Williams can show up and do their work. 4) Defense looked great, all around. I like Joe Schobert a lot. He stands out this year. 5) I dunno if Receivers aren't getting open or if Kizer just doesn't see the field correctly yet, but he needs to be decisive. Hike the ball, find the open guy, throw the ball. That many sacks is ridiculous. And if our O-Line was worse, it would have been farrrr worse 6) I was happy with Corey Coleman, hope he doesn't have a concussion though. And I was happy with Ricardo Louis. But...... I'm watching on TV, it's hard sometimes to see whether the receivers are getting separation
Oh and 7...... I didn't really notice Shaun Coleman. And that's a good thing. He might solidify that spot for us. Maybe he can even potentially replace Joe Thomas. I don't see that FSU Linemen as our next LT
Tough, hard fought game. We outscored them if not for the blocked punt on our 1st series.
I thought that the defense played really well. It took 2 really spectacular catches by Brown, or the Steelers might not have won.
The defense played really, really well though. They carried over from the preseason.
Kizer was slow to process things on the field, but seemed to speed up a bit as the game went on. It seemed like as he saw things a 2nd time, he processed better. Still, what ... 7 sacks? I would think that 6 of them were on Deshone himself. Lots of teachable moments in this game, but lots of potential too.
I am not as discouraged as I thought I'd be after the 1st drive. lol I actually feel rather encouraged. I think that this team has some real potential, and as they grow, should be pretty decent.
The reason I'm not disappointed in the run game is because running from the shotgun like that is not going to be very successful. You need your qb under center and crown in the backfield with a fb in front of him. However, since kizer does not know how to play from under center and the fact that hue wants to throw throw throw all day long anyways I don't expect much of a running game this season.
The Steelers are a dirty team. I love how much the league caters to them. The refs did not want to make that call on the blatent helmet to helmet hit on Ricardo Luis. They had to get together to make it right. The guy in the last row of the nosebleeds saw that as dirty.
I love that the Browns didn't back down. They played pretty physical. They didn't really get rattled and let things get out of hand. You can't make a lot of the mistakes that they made, but you also saw that they fought all 60 minutes. Normally you don't give that kind of credit out for the NFL, considering it's a pro league, and you're supposed to be as good as your opponent, but this team is still super young and had a 21 year old starting the most important position on the field. I think there were some good signs, but also plenty to clean up.
We need to get Myles Garrett on the field. Could have really used him today.
I thought Kizer hung in there. We saw some rookie mistakes, a few bad throws, a few throws that need a bit more accuracy.
But man, he has got to learn how to get rid of the ball, or we're going to start going through 3 and 4 QB's. Just live to fight another day.
Most of the sacks were on him. I thought the line did a decent enough job.
Some of these run calls were not very good, and others seemed to be well thought out. Running to the flat just never seems wise against the Steelers.
Antonio Brown did not catch that ball. I don't care what anyone says. We have been told constantly about this "process of the catch", and he did not complete the whole process. Whatever though, doesn't surprise me that they gave the steelers that call.
If Kenny Britt doesn't see the field again, that'd be fine with me. I get that we are not great and super thin at the position, but that drop was unacceptable for a veteran. Absolutely murdered that drive.
Someone needs to get in Corey Coleman's face and tell him he can't take plays off. I saw it a bunch. The radio guys called him out a few times for it as well. You've played a handful of games in the league and aren't above going hard every play. He's a talented kid, I just think he needs to be held accountable for his play on the field.
I love that defense is more physical. Man that makes me happy. They have a ways to go, but it looks improved.
They are much improved. Optimistic about Kizer and the D. We dont have all the pieces yet. But at least it looks like we will compete and be fun to watch. I couldnt stomach it last year and didnt watch much. This year I have a reason to go to the bar to watch them.
Trying to run Crow out of the shotgun is crazy, but Kizer isn't used to being under center.
Our Wr's are probably the worst in the NFL.
I don't know how Kizer made it through the game alive. The sacks are his fault and he'll be sacked a record number of times if his read progressions don't improve.
All that being said, I am excited about the team overall and think we are in for about 6 wins this season. I would have predicted about 3 wins if you asked me yesterday.
The sacks are his fault and he'll be sacked a record number of times if his read progressions don't improve.
No, he wont, because odds are he'll not be available to play. The more sacks you take, you increase your chances of injury.
That's when we roll Kevin Hogan out, then he gets hurt, and we're signing guys of the street, and looking at another 1-3 win season.
They have a lot of things to clean up as a team but the number one thing that needs cleaned up IMMEDIATELY is Kizer getting rid of the ball. I want to see him make it the whole season but after today, I have serious doubts.
If I were Browns coaches, I'd be showing Kizer loops and loops of Tom Brady just chucking the ball either out of bounds or at the feet of running backs. Seriously, live to fight another down.
He won't make it the whole game next week at this rate.
We def need to find a running game though, making a rookie QB throw 30 times a game isn't recipe for success.
speaking of success,
rumors are Josh Gordon will be re-instated by the NFL in late Septmeber. Considering he is still on his rookie contrract making peanuts, do you take a chance?
I do, he is more talented physically then anyone we have and he can stretch the field...the thought of Gordon vs Haden later in the year just makes me grin.
If Gordon does get re-instated, he changes EVERYTHING for the Browns. He is a playmaker...i'd rather the 2013 Gordon (87 catches, 1600+ yards) better then Antionio Brown..i think Gordon even set the record for receiving yards in a single game by a Wr against the Steelers...guy is money if he is in shape ready to go, and Gordon is saying he is in the best shape of his life and is 100% committed to football...
Gordon is also the first guy EVER to post back to back 200+ receiving yard games in NFL history.
if its true, and Gordon is going to be re-instared Hue would be a fool not to use him. He doens't have to start right away just a few go routes 12-15 times per game, he will come down with ball just throw the ball to Gordon.
Gordon would be like MJ, just give Josh the ball and get out of his way lol
I wonder what Gordon really has to offer. I remember bringing him back off suspension last time and he was awful. I get that it's now a different coach and system, but you wonder being away from the game for that long in a fast moving league like the NFL and we may have already seen the best of the guy....
Lots of things stood out to me, but have already been mentioned. I was waiting all game for their LG to be flagged as he was never set prior to the snap...no flag!
D was much improved. D backs....eh, a work in progress I guess.
O - Kizer did just fine. Rookie, against the stoolers. Def. room for improvement. Drop, read, throw, even if it's out of bounds. That will come with some more real game experience.
Garrett will improve our pass rush quite a bit. It was so so today.
The stoolers (well, 2 players) are going to be a tad bit lighter in the wallet when the game checks are handed out.
Loved that the ref's were calling the penalties on the stoolers. Too often, in the past, it seemed like ref's were afraid to call them against that team.
Better debut than I had imagined - better game than I ever could've imagined after the first possession.
Like I said earlier I love watching this Defense and if Kizer learns from his mistakes like throwing the ball away instead of taking sacks we will have a good season ... I am proud of the way they played and I am looking forward to next Sunday
Lots of things stood out to me, but have already been mentioned. I was waiting all game for their LG to be flagged as he was never set prior to the snap...no flag!
I noticed that as well. Maybe he doesn't have to set before a certain time. I dunno what the rule is there, 32.
Quite honestly, the Steelers probably felt like they played pretty poorly ... Bell looked bad and out of shape. Brown bailed them out. They kill themselves with penalties (yes, all were deserved) ... they won basically because a blocked punt and Antonio Brown.
I was happy with our defense ... much improved. Our o will be up and down, but Kizer showed some promise.
The Steelers are a dirty team. I love how much the league caters to them. The refs did not want to make that call on the blatent helmet to helmet hit on Ricardo Luis. They had to get together to make it right. The guy in the last row of the nosebleeds saw that as dirty.
I have a friend who is a steelers fan and they texted about the BS calls on those helmet to helmet flags. My replay started with: I know you guys aren't use to having those called against you ....
How much of that was the Browns playing great or the Steelers playing poorly....honestly probably somewhere in the middle.
I was not happy with the Steelers offense or its gameplan. No one not named Antonio Brown did a thing today. I can only hope this is a product of the starters not doing a thing during the preseason. They looked horrible.
BUT was it because your Browns defense looked like a fast and angry group out there. I was really surprised by the team speed on your D. Definitely looks like an improved group out there.
I liked Kizer coming out...and he did not disappoint in his first start. Hard to grade a QB after 4 quarters...but honestly he looked like the best player on the field for your Offense...thats a good sign for a rookie QB.
I wonder what Gordon really has to offer. I remember bringing him back off suspension last time and he was awful. I get that it's now a different coach and system, but you wonder being away from the game for that long in a fast moving league like the NFL and we may have already seen the best of the guy....
How much of that was the Browns playing great or the Steelers playing poorly....honestly probably somewhere in the middle.
I was not happy with the Steelers offense or its gameplan. No one not named Antonio Brown did a thing today. I can only hope this is a product of the starters not doing a thing during the preseason. They looked horrible.
BUT was it because your Browns defense looked like a fast and angry group out there. I was really surprised by the team speed on your D. Definitely looks like an improved group out there.
I liked Kizer coming out...and he did not disappoint in his first start. Hard to grade a QB after 4 quarters...but honestly he looked like the best player on the field for your Offense...thats a good sign for a rookie QB.
Special teams let is down today. Shocked to get any momentum started really after an ugly start like that. Better not see blocked kicks anymore, tell you that.
Lots of things stood out to me, but have already been mentioned. I was waiting all game for their LG to be flagged as he was never set prior to the snap...no flag!
10 years ago the Steelers played the Browns in Cleveland week 1. Browns first possession was a 3-n-out, followed by a blocked punt. Steelers won that game.
Browns went 10-6 that year and didn't lose another home game.
Lots of things stood out to me, but have already been mentioned. I was waiting all game for their LG to be flagged as he was never set prior to the snap...no flag!
I thought I was the only one who saw that
Eh, I bet more people noticed it than you think. I did. Apparently it wasn't a penalty.........how not, I don't know, but I guess it wasn't.
I'm encouraged. Kizer showed pocket presence. He moved the ball and scored. Defense only allowed 14 points and contained Bell. Get rid of the blocked punt and you have a different game. We wouldn't have needed to go for 2...17-14. Steelers would have either scored in final minute drive or forced to kick FG to tie the game and we take them into OT. OR, we end up winning 17-14.
Not bad for a 1-15/young team going head to head against a playoff team.
Yea, that drop was a chuck your beer over the shoulder moment.
You see that a lot with rookies who get a little bit excited over the possibility of big yards after the catch, but no vet should drop a pass like that.
Ohh yes...2007... Charlie Frye was replaced by Derek Anderson. I sure hope this year is as fun as that one.
I was very impressed with Kizer. He looked comfortable and in command. He is very impressive inside the pocket the first 3-4 seconds, then he needs to get better as he loses control after that and take too many sacks.
I wonder what Gordon really has to offer. I remember bringing him back off suspension last time and he was awful. I get that it's now a different coach and system, but you wonder being away from the game for that long in a fast moving league like the NFL and we may have already seen the best of the guy....
I think he will be a beast if he comes back with us.
Of course, every player can sit for years and then come right back as if they never left. And Meathead is the greatest WR of all time. He's coming back to SAVE us. *snicker* IF he ever gets it together long enough to get reinstated it won't be for long. First chance he gets he will spark up a doobie and be out again. It is his nature to be a loser. There is NO reason to think he will EVER get it together. He's had chance after chance after chance after chance..... More chances than any meathead deserves. He is not some savior returning from exile in triumph. He's the dumbest idiot on the planet and a born loser.
Defense held them to 14 points. Should've been enough. OL allowed seven sacks and there was no running game. Thought OL was fixed, but it was the problem.
10 years ago the Steelers played the Browns in Cleveland week 1. Browns first possession was a 3-n-out, followed by a blocked punt. Steelers won that game.
Browns went 10-6 that year and didn't lose another home game.
Lots of things stood out to me, but have already been mentioned. I was waiting all game for their LG to be flagged as he was never set prior to the snap...no flag!
I thought I was the only one who saw that
I saw that Ramon Foster was receiving calls from big ben...then I saw him slap pouncey on the leg to snap it...maybe he pointed at him but it looked odd
I saw a defense that doesn't give up. They stopped the run,but AB is a freak.
I thought Kizer looked okay, but he had two guys open deep and overthrew them. Most of the sacks are on him, I thought the line played decent, and will get better with time. Bitonio is just coming back, and we have two, actually three new lineman starting.
Britt's drop was huge. It was a momentum killer. I believe if he makes that catch, the game changes.
The Steelers defense is good. I doubt many teams can run on them. Shazier is a dirty player. I was surprised we moved the ball at all.
Peppers is going to be a factor. They were afraid to kick to him.
Also, Haden did not look that good.
I saw a game that was lost on a blocked punt for a score.
All in all, the team looked better, and I truly believe Kiser will get better with more time.
Leveon Bell sat out all training camp...i think that had a major effect on his play but we were crashing towards him...but he did get the runs near the end when he needed that first down...but way better than the 200 yards we gave up last year
I know people like trashing Haden on here, but I have to wonder if some of these passes Ben made would've been broken up if Haden was here.
Such as atonio brown catching over 3 defenders.
Our secondary got torched, and that was 99 percent from brown and 1 percent from Jesse James.
I would like to see more pressure dialed up, Big Ben had too much time.
But again, the run defense was beyond dominant. The only player in the secondary that had a solid game was kindred. That was good by the way because I was worried SS would be a weakness, but he held his own.
Crow had a trash game. Couldn't run, couldn't pass protect.
Our OL needs some more chemistry, but I thought they pass protected well as most sacks was on Kizer.
However, Kizer held the ball because Coleman was the only guy getting open on a semi regular basis.
Britt is trash, should've tagged Pryor. Devalve had a decent game against some good LBs.
And I like he potential of Kizer. He missed 2 down field throws but man I'm glad we finally got a guy willing to throw it, and can MAKE the throw. Can't stack the box with a guy like him.
I want to see more dayes. And Duke is definitely a weapon in the slot.
Defense held them to 14 points. Should've been enough. OL allowed seven sacks and there was no running game. Thought OL was fixed, but it was the problem.
The difference in the game.
I don't think the OL was an issue at all.
On passes, Kizer held the ball too long to many times.
On runs, the Browns just don't execute. Part of it is the play calling...the run calls are too predictable. Part of it is the disjointed offense and not completing enough passes. The absence of the passing threat is going to cause the opponent to sell out for the run. We've seen that movie many times before. Crow also did not look good today. Slow to hit the hole and showed his trademark lack of balance.
Lots of things stood out to me, but have already been mentioned. I was waiting all game for their LG to be flagged as he was never set prior to the snap...no flag!
I thought I was the only one who saw that
I saw that Ramon Foster was receiving calls from big ben...then I saw him slap pouncey on the leg to snap it...maybe he pointed at him but it looked odd
They do that every away game to combat the noise. Foster waits of for Ben to give the signal, then turns and slaps Pouncey....the snap count still changes...but its so Foster can look right at Ben to get signals.
5 personal fouls on the Steelers today and 4 of those were helmet shots.
Their dirt bags, I'm glad Coleman popped up on the last one and the db had his bell rang for delivering the shot.
It makes you wonder if Harrison is coaching their defense.
Worse...joey porter
They are and institution of dirtbags taught to hit with the crown of the helmet, just like Shazier led with the helmet against Kizer when he slid. And lets not forget when he took Bernards head off with the crown of his helmet.
Also I was very happy with Haden for week 1. He got beat a couple of times...but it looked like the safety help over the top was late getting there and Haden was in the right spot. I know Kizer froze the safety one time with his eyes and a pump fake.
Haden got a sack off the corner. For only being in town a week I was pleased.
I wonder what Gordon really has to offer. I remember bringing him back off suspension last time and he was awful. I get that it's now a different coach and system, but you wonder being away from the game for that long in a fast moving league like the NFL and we may have already seen the best of the guy....
I think he will be a beast if he comes back with us.
Of course, every player can sit for years and then come right back as if they never left. And Meathead is the greatest WR of all time. He's coming back to SAVE us. *snicker* IF he ever gets it together long enough to get reinstated it won't be for long. First chance he gets he will spark up a doobie and be out again. It is his nature to be a loser. There is NO reason to think he will EVER get it together. He's had chance after chance after chance after chance..... More chances than any meathead deserves. He is not some savior returning from exile in triumph. He's the dumbest idiot on the planet and a born loser.
wow thats harsh. I don't think Josh is a loser, he just hasn't been around enough winners in his life. Ya know people make mistakes sometimes, folks can sometimes have things happen in their life that makes them weak and go back to something they normally wouldn't. Beating an addiction is more about circumstances and timing more then anything else.
I think Josh is past all his problems. He hasn't failed an NFL drug test in over a year, he is doing everything the NFL has asked him to do. I think he comes back better then ever.
And yes, Gordon is talented enough to step in day one and be one of the best WR in the NFL, Gordon hasn't forgotten how to play football, its in his DNA. In terms of God given talent on Megatron was maybe better. Gordon just hit a huge block in the road.
He is only 26 years old, he has plenty of good years left in him, and they should be here in cleveland.
Defense held them to 14 points. Should've been enough. OL allowed seven sacks and there was no running game. Thought OL was fixed, but it was the problem.
The difference in the game.
The line didn't allow 7 sacks, maybe a couple I remember Tretter getting blown up on one. Kizer needs to learn to get rid of the ball, he tries to make too much happen but I think he will learn he didn't do bad for his rookie start. The running game, not sure. I think Crow lacks power, he can break some good runs but just seems to go down too easy when he makes contact.
5 personal fouls on the Steelers today and 4 of those were helmet shots.
A couple of those deserved ejections, especially the one on Coleman at the goal line. A 15-yd penalty after a TD is really no deterrent at all, when its assessed on the following kickoff.
I would like to add, that our running game, IMO, is not as bad as it looked today. Pittsburgh is a hard defense to run on, I think that was the problem more than anything.
and Njoku looks like he could become a big weapon for us ... He only had 2 receptions for 20yds. but he was interfered with inside the 5, he looks like a tough cover
I see an improved defense but some work still is still needed. Much of those 2nd half completions were due to lack of pressure. We just couldn't get to the QB. Hopefully, when Garrett comes back, we will be improved in that department.
The offense needs some play makers in the skilled positions. I know that the current administration is working on that and much depends on Coleman making the transition and retained guys like Crow making a difference. Crowell angers me because he's SO EASY to bring down because he stops moving his feet at contact. He could get more yards after the hit if he pumps those legs. Makes me want the Browns to draft a real RB next year.
Overall, Kizer did OK. He made rookie mistakes like holding onto the ball and staring down his targets. Hopefully he can fix those. My wife (Colts fan) reminded me that Manning did the same thing as a rookie, bless her heart!
Makes me want the Browns to draft a real RB next year.
Saquan Barkley Penn State ...
People often say we don't run enough, but if Crow isn't producing enough positive yards, it gets to be a wasted down. I don't know if it's him or the blocking, or a combination of the two? He seems to usually have some good runs every game, but I really am not into him like a lot of Browns fans are. IMHO
I'd personally like to see more Dayes. I know he's just a rookie, but I like his burst and cuts
not to mention he's decent at picking up blitzes
I'd say send a message to the veteran and let him know that his carries are going to get cut into by the rookie if he doesn't play like he wants that pay day.
Browns played pretty well today. Not great but pretty well. Not well enough to win. But I have hope.
The team is vastly better than last year's team. Better talent, gameplay and coaching.
Kizer looks good. He made some rookie mistakes. The sacks and the interception were rough but he had some really terrific throws. This guy gives me some hope. I think he can be coached on the sacks. I also think he didn't have a lot to work with given the Browns have poor wideouts and the running game had no momentum. He should have thrown the ball away though instead of taking sacks.
It's unfortunate the Browns didn't do more to address the wide receiver position especially since we have a rookie QB who is good and need support. Losing Pryor and picking up Kenny Britt wasn't a move I think anyone liked. But the Browns also made all of those changes here in the last two weeks and brought in new receivers off waivers and those guys really haven't had a lot of opportunity to work with the offense and Kizer yet. Britt's dropped pass was really aggravating.
The running game was very disappointing. I am hopeful that next week is better.
That opening drive was really tough to swallow especially the blocked punt for TD.
Really don't care for the Steelers trying to dish out concussions.
Joe Haden didn't really look that good. No loss to us. I have a feeling he will cost the Steelers a game (or more) this year.
I wasn't happy with Hue burning through the timeouts in the second half because I knew the Browns would probably end up needing them at the end of the game. At least when he burned the first time out in the second half it resulted in a first down the next play. That being said, I like Hue. The team seems to be playing with heart and is better than it was last year. This is only his 33 regular season game as head coach so he is still learning too. I like him. I don't feel like we are in constant jeopardy with him like I did when Pat Shurmur was head coach.
It would have been fun to watch Myles Garrett today. I hope he doesn't miss too many games.
I believe we really missed MG today. I'm not saying we would have won if he played but we didn't have much of a pass rush and that's his forte. Pittsburgh would have had to account for him and that would have made it easier for other guys. Oh well, sometime later in the season I hope!!.
Defense held them to 14 points. Should've been enough. OL allowed seven sacks and there was no running game. Thought OL was fixed, but it was the problem.
The difference in the game.
I don't think the OL was an issue at all.
On passes, Kizer held the ball too long to many times.
On runs, the Browns just don't execute. Part of it is the play calling...the run calls are too predictable. Part of it is the disjointed offense and not completing enough passes. The absence of the passing threat is going to cause the opponent to sell out for the run. We've seen that movie many times before. Crow also did not look good today. Slow to hit the hole and showed his trademark lack of balance.
I don't understand Hue's play calling at all.
I was agreeing that our defense only gave up 14 points.
Kizer was probably responsible for 5 of the seven sacks. He needs to get rid of the ball quicker for sure.
in terms of the playcalling, the only thing I don't like is that we get too "cute" at times. Shifts, backwards passes, running to the short end of the field, etc ... especially with a young QB who has enough on his plate. I think sometimes the flash detracts from the productivity
thousand 1 thousand 2 thousand 3 get the damn ball out even if you have to hit the blond in the 3rd row. DK missed 2 throws deep that should have been either a TD or at the very least a big gain.
But with all that said he was ok. Nothing great but things you can work on. our D come on if you're playing you safties 25 yds of the ball sooner our later they are going to find that mid range opening in your zone and Pitt took advantage of that.maybe morelater.
agree nor ... probably 6-8 times he was WAY too long with it ... I liked that he's poised and not trying to bolt the pocket, but you gotta speed it up and move through progressions
oh i don't agree with this at all.the Steelers were run bliting and if they got to Kizer all the better and as we all know they got there 7 times. 1 more time 1,2 ,3, get the damn ballout
Defense held them to 14 points. Should've been enough. OL allowed seven sacks and there was no running game. Thought OL was fixed, but it was the problem.
The difference in the game.
I don't think the OL was an issue at all.
On passes, Kizer held the ball too long to many times.
On runs, the Browns just don't execute. Part of it is the play calling...the run calls are too predictable. Part of it is the disjointed offense and not completing enough passes. The absence of the passing threat is going to cause the opponent to sell out for the run. We've seen that movie many times before. Crow also did not look good today. Slow to hit the hole and showed his trademark lack of balance.
I don't understand Hue's play calling at all.
I was agreeing that our defense only gave up 14 points.
Kizer was probably responsible for 5 of the seven sacks. He needs to get rid of the ball quicker for sure.
Yep, and he owned that in his after game presser too. Sometimes, you just gotta give up and check down.
However, the fact that he wanted to push the ball downfield is a great mentality. One we haven't seen in...what...decades?
--The Browns D played pretty good. They were way faster than last year.
--Kindred, who I was down on last year, played much better.
--Kirksey had a nice game.
--Burgess makes things happen. I like him.
--I don't like how deep we are playing our safeties. I assume that is because Williams doesn't trust their rads.
--Our corners are pretty bad and McCourty is even slower than Haden.
--I hope people abandon the 5 percent crap about how often the Mike will play. LOL
--C. Coleman played better.
--Kizer was up and down. Expected for a rook. Made some good throws. Held the ball way too long. Left the pocket when there was no need to. Did not seem overwhelmed by the moment. Overthrew too many passes and lacked touch on others. Big, strong guy.
--Run blocking was terrible.
--We got a lot of favorable calls which sort of amazed me.
--Bottom line: The team showed some promise. I was encouraged. I do think we need to win some games, though. All of these losses piling up wears on guys.
You, or someone, please expound on the safeties being 20, 25 yards or more deep.
The only thing I can come up with for doing that is we feared getting beat deep. Just seems odd to have safeties that deep.
Thoughts?
yes it seems as if our #1 priority was to keep everything in front of us ... under no circumstances let them get past our last defender. For a guy who plays 2 high safeties (williams) it was not something they planned for ... but adjusted to it
I just got back from the game.. to answer one poster it was loud in the first half, that tapered off 2nd half
My big take away and we all discussed at the tailgate after the game.. we all agreed Kizer looked like he was in command, was moving people around point here wave there.. and people were moving quick to do it. He's a leader was the general opinion.
You, or someone, please expound on the safeties being 20, 25 yards or more deep.
The only thing I can come up with for doing that is we feared getting beat deep. Just seems odd to have safeties that deep.
Thoughts?
Is this normal for Williams? Or was it a scheme to counter thier speed at wr? It seemed to be effective since our front seven was able to stuff the run and they weren't forced to move up.
You, or someone, please expound on the safeties being 20, 25 yards or more deep.
The only thing I can come up with for doing that is we feared getting beat deep. Just seems odd to have safeties that deep.
Thoughts?
I remember he used to play Sean Taylor very deep as a single post FS. The rationale was playing him deeper made it possible to cover sideline to sideline with only 1 safety because his speed in conjunction with the extra depth made it possible for him to get to either sideline to get on top of a vertical go route.
My guess at minimum is the rationale for playing split field safeties extra deep is because it provides a strong visual deterrent to a QB against try to throw a vertical route like a go/fly, corner or post route.
It might force offensive coordinators and maybe even QBs also to re-think about which plays concepts will get open against ultra deep safeties.
And it forces offenses to run deeper route to find the void between the LBs and safties which will take longer and help the DL to get home with pressure.
21 y/o Rookie QB 1st start against a division rival.
I thought Kizer played well all things considered. 2 areas to improve: protect yourself young man, QBs shouldn't get hit like a RB...if he keeps that up Hogan will be playing soon enough.
Get rid of the ball on time or scramble or scramble to throw the ball away. Avoid sacks, especial in FG range.
I just got back from the game.. to answer one poster it was loud in the first half, that tapered off 2nd half
My big take away and we all discussed at the tailgate after the game.. we all agreed Kizer looked like he was in command, was moving people around point here wave there.. and people were moving quick to do it. He's a leader was the general opinion.
Nice. That's something we've not heard about our qb's since probably Garcia.
I'd personally like to see more Dayes. I know he's just a rookie, but I like his burst and cuts
not to mention he's decent at picking up blitzes
Yeah, Crow missed some blocks today.
I understand that Crow didn't play well today. I agree with that. But the part I don't understand is wanting to go to Dayes. You could argue Dayes was even worse than Crow today. It seems to me that too much of the time starters never get the benefit of the doubt and the backup gets tons of leeway.
I like Dayes and am looking forward to watching him develop over the course of the season, but he didn't do anything with his opportunities today.
One blocked punt and you want Tabor replaced? Outside of that our punt team gave pittsburgh poor starting field position all day.
Chris Tabor historically has had many special teams flubs. Whether it's last year with all those missed field goals against Miami (Buck stops with him, period)
Or Danny Shelton/Cameron Irving's rookie year, when field goals kept getting blocked.
How about that year when we couldn't find a guy to return punts. We went so far as sending back Jim Leonhard, asking him just to fair catch the things, and we screwed that one up as well.
I've never been impressed with Tabor, and he's stuck, with all the regime changes. It's as if he dates Haslam's daughter or something
I was surprised to see how we played with three linebackers. I wonder if this will change once Garrett is back. Schobert got stuck on a wide receiver a couple times.
Kizer was worse than I thought he would be. He held the ball too long and didn't look as composed in the pocket as he did in the preseason. He also missed a few times on open guys down the field. He really has a cannon though. The TD pass to Coleman was incredible. There was also a pass that should have been intercepted, but he threw it so hard the defender dropped it. He's a rookie.
We got a first down anyway, but Kenny Britt dropping that pass was not a good time.
Matthew Dayes was really good on special teams.
Where was Duke Johnson? Are we overhyping him or is he not used enough?
We got no pressure on Roethlisberger. I believe I read we only pressured him twice the whole game. That's really bad.
The run defense was great. Ogunjobi seemed to do a great job stuffing the middle.
Why did Hue Jackson go for it on fourth down late in the game down 11? That didn't make any sense. We need 11 points, kick the field goal, try to get the stop, and then try for a touchdown (we didn't get the ball back anyway). Bag process, good result.
Antonio Brown is unbelievable. I don't know how anyone stops him.
The kicker was good.
Corey Coleman ran some pretty good routes. The one where it was like a fake sluggo route on Haden was pretty cool.
I wish the run game got going more. Only 17 carries for Crowell and three for Dayes.
According to ESPN, this is the first time the Browns have scored a TD in the opening quarter of the first game of the season ... since 2010. And that TD came on a pass from Jake Delhomme to Mohammed Massaquoi.
Why did Hue Jackson go for it on fourth down late in the game down 11? That didn't make any sense. We need 11 points, kick the field goal, try to get the stop, and then try for a touchdown (we didn't get the ball back anyway). Bag process, good result.
See, I saw it differently. It was 4th and 2 and we were right near the end zone. If we were going to be able to score a TD, that was the time to do it. Kicking a field goal, we'd still have to hope for some prayer to get us back to the end zone.
It worked out, and gave us a chance to tie the game (or even win it). Unfortunately, Antonio made an acrobatic catch and we never got the ball back.
But I liked going for it there. Made sense to me. Much easier to score a TD from there, get the ball back, and kick a field goal. Field position-wise, that was to our advantage there, and we needed to execute if we were going to win or tie either way
EDIT: But.......
Quote:
Kizer was worse than I thought he would be. He held the ball too long and didn't look as composed in the pocket as he did in the preseason. He also missed a few times on open guys down the field. He really has a cannon though. The TD pass to Coleman was incredible. There was also a pass that should have been intercepted, but he threw it so hard the defender dropped it. He's a rookie.
Here I agree with you. Kizer is getting a lot of praise, but I feel like most praise is deserved for our defense. That and our O-Line.
Kizer did some things well, but all those sacks were ridiculous. They make everything much harder. Losing 6 yards and a down all the time just sucks.
I really hope he can get that all figured out.
They kept saying that the offense did very well against a very good Pitt defense, but I kinda thought that Pitt looked pretty bad in general. Not the Super Bowl contenders that I kept hearing about pre-season
A kicker that can't get it between the uprights, cam erving getting knocked on his sorry but and Ed Reynolds was the best that dumpster of a roster had to offer for returns..but it's all tabor's fault. Perhaps we should fire Hugh for not taking us to the playoffs with all the talent we had last year.
Why did Hue Jackson go for it on fourth down late in the game down 11? That didn't make any sense. We need 11 points, kick the field goal, try to get the stop, and then try for a touchdown (we didn't get the ball back anyway). Bag process, good result.
See, I saw it differently. It was 4th and 2 and we were right near the end zone. If we were going to be able to score a TD, that was the time to do it. Kicking a field goal, we'd still have to hope for some prayer to get us back to the end zone.
I understand why Jackson did it, I just wouldn't have. If we don't convert the fourth down we lose the game for sure. There was too much risk involved.
Overall pretty pleased with what I saw, thought I'm fighting the notion to be happy with "moral victories"..
Kizer needs to throw the ball away for his own safety and to prevent negative plays. Run defense was spectacular except at the very end when we needed the ball back. OL will gel as the season moves along, a lot of new pieces there. Blocked punt, dude just came basically unblocked. It was a missed assignment, confusion, whatever.. Glad we didn't just cave after that. We have a DC who outcoached the Steelers offense.. Steelers head shots were ridiculous, they should be writing some big checks this week. This team REALLY needs to win a couple games in the first 4 or 5 weeks of the season. I'm sure they are upset they lost but they see the bright spots as well... and they NEED to see the effort turn into Ws sooner rather than later to build some morale.
If you had told me before the game that the Browns would lose by 3 largely because of a blocked punt TD.. I would have thought, "typical Browns".. but I wouldn't have been terribly upset.
Disappointing stat of the day, Ben Roethlisburger has won more games in Cleveland stadium than any Browns QB since it opened in 1999.. New ways to highlight our ineptitude..
Go Tribe!
Edit: Almost forgot, blowing 2 timeouts at the end on the challenge was the only real coaching blunder I saw all day..
How is it that Roethlisberger didn't get a penalty when he grabbed Ogbah by the leg after the interception? The ref was literally standing right there.
How is it that Roethlisberger didn't get a penalty when he grabbed Ogbah by the leg after the interception? The ref was literally standing right there.
i'll be honest, I would have called timeout ... then seen the replay and challenged it just like Hue did. I never saw Brown bobble/drop the ball at first glance. Of course, I don't have anyone checking replays or anything like that.
Is the wasted timeout why we lost? No. The blocked punt and Antonio Brown is why we lost
Kizer needs look for a check down receiver if his initial read shows no one open. Too many times, especially in the second half, Kizer continued to look deep for someone open, taking a sack.
The stat line would lead one to believe the Browns OLine pass blocking was horrible...giving up 7 sacks. Most of the sacks were Kizer's fault, hanging onto the ball too long.
Kozer impressed, first game vs a a team most have in the SB. For once the 3 and 4th quarter are watchable , Ben always has that broken play that kills us. Kizer meed to learn touch not every throw like a laser beam. Coleman the omly WR we have. Bardnidge would have been nice to have today. Britt stealing money, we miss T Pryor. I did not hear he has all day to throw, a welcome change. With Garrett this D will be nasty. Crow still falls if you touch his shoelace.
crow always seems to have a weird lean or something ... he's like stumbling instead of cutting. but I will say that his pass pro was really why I was upset
How is it that Roethlisberger didn't get a penalty when he grabbed Ogbah by the leg after the interception? The ref was literally standing right there.
I don't know if it was the angle, but it looked to me like Kasen Williams should have been able to stay in bounds on that deep ball. Kenny Britt had the bad drop. Kizer's numbers were okay, but those 2 connect and they look pretty great. He needs to speed things up, but we've got something to work with.
We were just a couple plays here and there from an opening day win (easy to say, I know). That's progress. Have some things to clean up, but we looked competent for the most part.
The front 7 was getting after it. I can't wait for Myles to get back. The game "sealing" scramble-heave to AB probably doesn't happen if he's in there.
What was up with the holding call on Meder? I've seen them called on screens, but on a running play?
Kindred looked much improved. Peppers did a pretty good job of corraling AB in the open field. Need to clean up the communication a little bit, but the safeties pleasantly surprised.
Impressed overall by the performance but I'm am trying to temper my expectations. Bad Browns teams have kept it close with other teams before. It's football- that's the way it goes. An argument could be made that Pittsburgh just played worse than expected, too.
That said:
I really like Kizer's play. Like many have said, that internal clock needs to get a bit quicker but there is just something about him that has me excited and confident that he'll continue to get better.
Coleman, too: I liked what I say out of him. Hopefully, those two and continue to build upon the chemistry.
The defense continued it's theme from preseason of being fast and relentless to the ball.
Crowell was just Crowell. Nothing special. He'll continue to keep the defense honest because at some point, he will break one open. It's just that it's few and far between, IMO. I'm worried about the running game this year. I don't think Duke can run between the tackle well and Dayes is an unknown. Hopefully we'll see better games from the Crow. I expect so.
Saw Tretter get blown up on a run play. Looked pretty bad. Outside of that I thought Pass Pro was very good.
I thought the secondary played well and it's always a tough matchup playing A. Brown. He is just so good out there.
i'll be honest, I would have called timeout ... then seen the replay and challenged it just like Hue did. I never saw Brown bobble/drop the ball at first glance. Of course, I don't have anyone checking replays or anything like that.
Is the wasted timeout why we lost? No. The blocked punt and Antonio Brown is why we lost
There's no reason to call a TO if you even remotely think you'll challenge. Just throw the challenge flag. It's the same thing as a timeout. There's no reason to risk the chance of burning two TOs.
That was terrible as well as Hue not using his TOs at the end of the first half. When the other team has goal to go calling TOs doesn't help them at all but it does help you so there is more time on the clock to try and score before the half. I see this mistake over and over again across the NFL and consistently with Hue.
Oh, and can someone break down what the hell happened with the TO and challenge? I think I got up from the couch and missed the timeout part, saw the challenge fail, and then after the break, PIT was kneeling to run out the clock.
The D is legit. Held the Steelers to 14 points. Offense not where it needs to be. Oline? Not sure we are as good as we thought we might be. Allowed to many sacks, we didn't run effectively.
Kiser has the skills I think. First game in the NFL against the tough team.. He's smart, he'll learn. I'm good so far with him.
I can't believe the hit that Coleman took for the TD.. wow, and he got up and walked away. Ricardo Lewis had some nice catches.. Njuko had a nice one.
I was disappointed that Haden was cut but I paid attention to him yesterday and I can see why. He's not the Joe Haden of old. Still, he'll be missed until we get a real replacement.
I think the components of a solid Offense are there, they just need time to grow together.
Average team age is 25.. Very young team. They will improve.
I get that you have a really wide TV, but how do you know that it didn't happen like this.
--Brown makes the catch
--Hue calls TO to stop the clock
--An assistant reviews the replay during the timeout and let's Hue know that the ball came loose
--Hue then challenges the play?
I think Hue should have challenged the call. I told my son I could see that review going either way, but you still have to challenge it considering the time and score of the game.
Impressed overall by the performance but I'm am trying to temper my expectations. Bad Browns teams have kept it close with other teams before. It's football- that's the way it goes. An argument could be made that Pittsburgh just played worse than expected, too.
On the surface it appears that but for the either the blocked punt or the INT, we could have won, but I have to wonder what the outcome would have been had the Squealers not had a 144 yards in dirty penalties. They certainly extended our two TD drives so who knows? Had they decided to play it clean, it could have been a blowout.
I don't agree, vers. It wasn't even close to being a non-catch. Along with losing the final timeout, they then went 15 yards on a run play, iirc.. Ball game .
I don't agree, vers. It wasn't even close to being a non-catch. Along with losing the final timeout, they then went 15 yards on a run play, iirc.. Ball game .
At first I would have agreed, but with all of the "complete the process of the catch" stuff that has gone on in the past I can see where it may be considered incomplete. The NFL is very, very inconsistent at calling what a catch is. To me, it was a catch, but we've seen times where the "process was not complete" on what appeared to be a catch - iirc it was a Calvin Johnson non-catch that looked to be one that started all of this.
I was speaking more of Rish's claim that Hue blew the two TO's by not just challenging the call first. I was suggesting that perhaps someone from the box contacted Hue to challenge the ruling on the field and it was NOT a mismanagement of the clock like he is claiming.
I've cooled down a bit after the loss. Regardless of having a young team lead by a rookie QB, the expectation for me is still high/perfection.
Kizer was decent. He definitely looks the part, and can make the throws. The one knack against him was holding on to the ball too long. If there is no one open, then he needs to have conversations with Hue to have more hot routes available on the plays being called.
Run game was ehhh. Crow had his typical carries where he gets immediately hit at the line, and his typical 4-5 yards per carry. Only thing missing were the big runs. I think he is highly underrated as a pass catcher. I was also a little irked that Dayes got so much playing time. Crow and Duke should be getting those opportunities.
Defense.. Our formations make me nervous. Stack the line with 9 players and play two deep.. if anyone's assignment beats them, its a wrap. We were fortunate to have succcess. I really wanted to see Boddy play man on Brown. Brown was killing our zone coverage.
Run defense. I likes. Pass rush.. disappointed. Ben had all day to make decisions for majority of his attempts.
Really like what I saw in Schobert. He has some hustle in him. Although Brown caught the tipped ball, Schobert's effort to even make a play on the ball to me was impressive.
- Surprised that the D did not blitz much at all ... after all the talk about how much a Greg Williams D blitzes and how aggressive they are. Maybe a reaction to Joe jumping to Pit - maybe a reaction to MG being out?
- Pit play calling early was predicated on a LOT of fast throws and WR screens. We handled them brilliantly. In past years we've seen Browns defenses gouged by these types of plays. It speaks well of tackling and discipline.
- Hard to hold down a future HOF QB, the NFL's best WR and one of the top 3 RB's ... regardless of hold outs (Bell) or how they prep'd in the preseason. Holding that team to 2 TD's is really outstanding.
- Blocked punt - pure fluke or damning indictment on ST play??? I do not know - hopefully that is the low point of the season because I know every one of us had a pit in the bottom of our stomachs and thought 'oh no we are the same old Browns' at that point.
- Kizer was ok. Showed some ability and some pocket presence... held on to the ball too long and s.l.o.w to move on from his primary.... as long as he shows improvement through the season the signs are very encouraging. . . . he needs to NOT take hits. Even on the TD, I hated the call despite the result.
- Crow was pretty much what we've seen for the last couple years. Seems to run into the back of his blockers. Seems to be off balance and fall/tackle easily. Duke I guess was hurt on the sideline block? He made a nice 1st down beating off tacklers and making a move.
- WR's other than Coleman look like a work in progress - I liked the look of the Kasen Williams .... not withstanding the OB catch.... he looked like he has good hands and got separation. . . . Britt is Dwayne Bowe mark II until he does something. Maclin, Decker, any one of a number of other options seem like it would have been a better option at this point.
OL - Played well enough ... I think Coleman at RT had a good game since I didn't see constant pressure from that side or notice any glaring issues. I am hoping for more in future games.
Encouraged provided we see improvement through the season - from Kizer, from the WR's and the running game.
*** I thought Pittsburgh lead with their helmets for most of the game - just looked dirty and I was really pissed. Especially with Shazier and TJ Watt's hit on Kizer - and the Coleman TD hit .... and Personally if they have one play like that again in a future game I retaliate and try to lay a helmet on Ben or Brown or Bell. To hell with it.
-Kindred looks to be a much improved, much more well rounded safety than he did last season.
-I would have liked to see us in Ben's face more often, but overall I'm pleased with how our guys did in a mono a mono approach. Having Peppers back that deep seemed funky, but I think it was edromeo that laid out the philosophy behind that. It seemed to work for the most part. I would have liked to see Peppers in a better position to make some plays happen, but if a team like the Steelers has second thoughts about going deep because he's back there, it's all good.
-I know Bell was rusty, but this D handled Pitt's accursed bubble screen very well.
-Kizer impressed me. He didn't look lost to me. He did look like he was seeing and processing what was going on, which I think is a good thing. Clearly the game has to slow down for him, but he did recognize some opportunities to swing for the fences, so good on him! I was impressed with his toughness.. .took some big cheap shots and got right back up!
-Run game... meh. I think it could have been better earlier. I don't know if our O-line was just a tad on the disjointed side, or if Pitt was really that disruptive.
-Honestly I know this isn't going to be the same Steeler's team it will be throughout the rest of the season. But I don't think that should detract from how competitive we played. If we had a QB with a little more experience, this would have been one of those games we should have been able to take advantage of and pulled out the W.
I have to say though, that after this game I'm actually feeling a lot better about the next 3.
I will respond before reading the posts already in the thread.
I was at the game. First time there for opening day, first time at a Steelers game. Took my two boys. Great time, great atmosphere, great weather.
My observations, from my untrained eye:
*** Special teams:
Great start with the blocked punt for a TD. Next couple almost blocked but he had good kicks, when he got them off.
Gonzalez did not put any kickoffs out of the EZ, like he did in preseason. Touchbacks, still, but not out of the EZ. No big deal, just an observation.
That last kickoff, from the 50, not sure of the strategy behind the pooch kick. What were they hoping would happen?
Peppers - not a lot of chances on the return. Bobbled one but covered it. Taking a KO out of the EZ and only getting to the 12 was not a good choice.
*** Offense:
Kizer has the tools, and outside of DA I have not felt this way about a Browns QB in a looong time. He is a rookie and will look like one at times, but we will have to learn to live with that.
Too many sacks. I know some on Kizer, but maybe not all of them? Definitely held on too long at times. And the sacks were big sacks, 7-9 yards. I wonder if maybe the OL was at fault sometimes, as we could not run for crap.
Kizer had some guys open deep and overthrew them. If he showed some accuracy on those throws then today people would be talking about how badly Haden was torched. We had no issues getting receivers behind him. None at all. Even though supposedly healthy, he looked like the battered Haden from the last couple of years. Big cushion, slow, grabby. Still can tackle, though. He just did not look good. The talks of him going step for step with DHB in practice? Not buying it.
Britt? Second and 19 and you're wide open over the middle for the 1st down. Youy are hit in stride, in the hands. You have one job on this team and that is to catch the @#$%^ ball.
*** Defense:
Improvement, that's for sure. Held Pitts to 14 (though the last drive would have been points, most likely). Agressive and fast.
Pitt was ineffective with the run. Only one rush of any consequence, and of course it was when we could least afford it, on the final possession.
One long gain on a pass that was deflected and another long gain on the pass on the final drive (and it was a good catch, correct call to not overturn it), and that was really it. And a long pass interference that was questionable. I was pleased with the D, though we need to learn to not leave the short stuff so open, and clean up the tackling.
Nice sack of Ben by Nassib.
AB still killing us. And if anyone things Haden would have helped contain him, I don't think so. We may miss him in a few weeks when AC Green comes to town, but AB not the best matchup for Haden.
*** Overall:
Disappointed at the loss, but encouraged at the future.
I do think at the end of the season, when we have 4-5 wins there will be posters who will talk about "how close" we were to 10 wins and the playoffs. And they will bring this game up as one "that got away" because we lost by 3, and had that blocked punt for a TD. This game did not get away from us. As close at it was, it never felt like Pitt was not in the driver's seat. They were in control and we kept it close.
I thought Pittsburgh lead with their helmets for most of the game - just looked dirty and I was really pissed.
I don't like it either. I'd gladly take 15 & ejection if some of our guys went on an ass-kicking rampage after a hit like that to one of ours. Ironically though, it was all that dirty play that probably kept us in the game.
(Note: they're clearly being taught to do this. Piling on after the player is down, aiming at shoulders & such with the crown of their helmets. It's blatant, and they should be sanctioned. They're too consistent with it to think otherwise.)
I thought Pittsburgh lead with their helmets for most of the game - just looked dirty and I was really pissed.
I don't like it either. I'd gladly take 15 & ejection if some of our guys went on an ass-kicking rampage after a hit like that to one of ours. Ironically though, it was all that dirty play that probably kept us in the game.
(Note: they're clearly being taught to do this. Piling on after the player is down, aiming at shoulders & such with the crown of their helmets. It's blatant, and they should be sanctioned.)
I think some of the problem is that the league must not being looking at trends within a team. Sure, it's obvious when the same player keeps getting flagged/fined every week for dirty play (a la Suh).. but week after week there is at least 1 or 2 plays by the Steelers who purposefully take that unsporstmanlike shot clearly to cause an injury.
And why not? what's a 15yrd penalty if you can knock the starting QB out of the game?
I thought Pittsburgh lead with their helmets for most of the game - just looked dirty and I was really pissed.
I don't like it either. I'd gladly take 15 & ejection if some of our guys went on an ass-kicking rampage after a hit like that to one of ours. Ironically though, it was all that dirty play that probably kept us in the game.
(Note: they're clearly being taught to do this. Piling on after the player is down, aiming at shoulders & such with the crown of their helmets. It's blatant, and they should be sanctioned.)
I think some of the problem is that the league must not being looking at trends within a team. Sure, it's obvious when the same player keeps getting flagged/fined every week for dirty play (a la Suh).. but week after week there is at least 1 or 2 plays by the Steelers who purposefully take that unsporstmanlike shot clearly to cause an injury.
And why not? what's a 15yrd penalty if you can knock the starting QB out of the game?
I completely agree. It's calculated, strategic, and an ingrained part of their defensive philosophy. I love that the refs were calling them on it, but what good does that do a team if they take out your star players? (Which is clearly the intent.) The league needs to look at this, and start taking away money, then draft picks should they continue this practice. Unfortunately, the league would be loath to sanction their beloved Steelers.
The calls were the right calls. That's the rules nowadays. I just didn't find them dirty. The rules have changed.
I just hate reading every week after another loss about how bad the Browns got screwed, or this team is favored, or this team is dirty, or how the NFL and the refs are cheating the Browns.
Well I would have started Hogan ( that is just me ) . We don't have a #1 CB so you loose the AB battle even before it starts .. Crow is Crow and I don't think he will be here next year anyway .. As stated , handicapped by only having three Wide Outs ready to go .. Williams missed the Boat by NOT dialing up a few Blitz's .. You have to love the overall play of the D .. The next five games on the schedule should be fun to watch ..
The calls were the right calls. That's the rules nowadays. I just didn't find them dirty. The rules have changed.
I just hate reading every week after another loss about how bad the Browns got screwed, or this team is favored, or this team is dirty, or how the NFL and the refs are cheating the Browns.
It's the talk of losers.
Calls were right, but the Browns fans are whining? Really?
The calls were the right calls. That's the rules nowadays. I just didn't find them dirty. The rules have changed.
I just hate reading every week after another loss about how bad the Browns got screwed, or this team is favored, or this team is dirty, or how the NFL and the refs are cheating the Browns.
It's the talk of losers.
I'm not putting this loss on the refs, the NFL, dirty play or anything else. In fact I've already stated that the results would have been MUCH more one-sided had they played it cleanly. But when your QB (or anyone else) is on the ground, and a defensive player dives crown-first into his shoulder, ribs, head or whatever, that's not only a penalty, it's dirty play. And it's been that way as long as I've been watching football, regardless of the new rules. When a guy is down, you don't dive at him head first. Period. This is a common practice with the Steelers. It's taught and it's applauded by them. The refs reacted to it. It cost the Steelers several points. It they don't stop the league needs to take notice and start doing something about it. JMHO
One thing I was thinking about was the penalty on our last TD. We scored but the Steelers got flagged for 15 yards, personal foul or whatever. That gets assessed on the kickoff, and what a waste. With most kickers putting it out of the back of EZ from the 35, what exactly does kicking off from the 50 actually gain the team? That's the idea of a penalty, to give some benefit from the team who was wronged.
Would it have been better to assess it on the ensuing 2 point conversion? Would going for 2 from the 1 yard line be better than kicking off from the 50? We converted anyway.
Or, and this would be messy because of all of the other things that could happen, assess the penalty after the ensuing kickoff. Move the team back 15 yards from the end of the return? Of course the kickoff and return could easily have its own penalty, so would you assess that as well as the 15 yarder from before? And what if the KO return is for a TD? Or what if it was an onside kick?
The calls were the right calls. That's the rules nowadays. I just didn't find them dirty. The rules have changed.
I just hate reading every week after another loss about how bad the Browns got screwed, or this team is favored, or this team is dirty, or how the NFL and the refs are cheating the Browns.
It's the talk of losers.
I understand and agree that we have had plenty of instances where as fans we feel unfairly hard done by and it's something of a crutch to blame bad calls, dirtly play ... whatever.
After so many losing season's it's what fans do. We do the same with the players, the coaches, the owner .... it's sort of human nature imo.
That said - also imo - it looked like Pit were obviously coached to lead with their helmet in an effort to hurt players. It happened way too frequently to be coincidence.
One thing I was thinking about was the penalty on our last TD. We scored but the Steelers got flagged for 15 yards, personal foul or whatever. That gets assessed on the kickoff, and what a waste. With most kickers putting it out of the back of EZ from the 35, what exactly does kicking off from the 50 actually gain the team? That's the idea of a penalty, to give some benefit from the team who was wronged.
Would it have been better to assess it on the ensuing 2 point conversion? Would going for 2 from the 1 yard line be better than kicking off from the 50? We converted anyway.
Or, and this would be messy because of all of the other things that could happen, assess the penalty after the ensuing kickoff. Move the team back 15 yards from the end of the return? Of course the kickoff and return could easily have its own penalty, so would you assess that as well as the 15 yarder from before? And what if the KO return is for a TD? Or what if it was an onside kick?
Just rambling, some random thoughts.
Totally agree. It's one of the most useless penalties, and a screwed-up rule (like a five and a fifteen off-setting or one penalty off-setting two). It needs to be assessed after the kickoff, IMO.
The calls were the right calls. That's the rules nowadays. I just didn't find them dirty. The rules have changed.
I just hate reading every week after another loss about how bad the Browns got screwed, or this team is favored, or this team is dirty, or how the NFL and the refs are cheating the Browns.
It's the talk of losers.
BBC did have a really good game... he laid the wood on Bell on that one play near the goal line!
As for the hits... look, I know the difference between a good, hard hit and a dirty, intentional hit. I think Ricardo took a helluva shot on his deep reception.
But in EVERY single game we've played against the Steelers since Harrison's shot on Colt, a Steeler's player takes a head shot at our QB. EVery single damn game. That's not a coincidence. They also do this in other games too.
50 seconds is the clearest replay .... to be the DB is looking to decapitate Coleman.
As for the NFL being soft ... based on the number and extent of data coming out on past players I personally don't expect the today's players to suffer brain damage for my entertainment. jmo.
Question .... the hit on (I think it was Louis) WR where there was a long delay before the flag came.
I understand that the DB hit our player with his shoulder pad ... it wasn't helmet to helmet.
BUT - is that shoulder to helmet hit legal? Louis was in the process of trying to catch the ball. To me he is a defenseless receiver at that point. . . he bobbled the catch and was trying to 're-catch' the ball when the hit happened. That adds some uncertainty. But to me - even with a clean catch the receiver would not have had time to get his feet down and turn or make a "football move" .... and to me that hit to the head, while not helmet to helmet, was still an easy call.
Question .... the hit on (I think it was Louis) WR where there was a long delay before the flag came.
I understand that the DB hit our player with his shoulder pad ... it wasn't helmet to helmet.
BUT - is that shoulder to helmet hit legal? Louis was in the process of trying to catch the ball. To me he is a defenseless receiver at that point. . . he bobbled the catch and was trying to 're-catch' the ball when the hit happened. That adds some uncertainty. But to me - even with a clean catch the receiver would not have had time to get his feet down and turn or make a "football move" .... and to me that hit to the head, while not helmet to helmet, was still an easy call.
Or am I interpreting the rules incorrectly?
I think there is a lot of latitude in that "defenseless receiver" rule. (This actually speaks to the "soft NFL" that others were alluding to.) They have to protect the players, and I get that, so I don't have a real problem with the latitude they show. Having said that, when it happened I told my wife, that hit is on Louis. If he would've caught the ball initially he wouldn't have hung himself out to dry. JMHO
The rule now is basically saying you can't blow up a receiver when they're trying to catch the ball. This should probably be looked at like: "If you aren't wearing pads and a helmet, would you make the same hit?" If not, then it's a flag.
However, outside of the hit on Coleman and the hit on Ricardo, which were "blow up the receiver" type calls (although they did lead with their helmets too), the other hits were just downright dirty. Hitting Kizer at the end of his slide, hitting Kizer after he was already sacked, etc. That's not Browns fans whining, it's just typical dirty play from the Steelers.
I get that you have a really wide TV, but how do you know that it didn't happen like this.
--Brown makes the catch
--Hue calls TO to stop the clock
--An assistant reviews the replay during the timeout and let's Hue know that the ball came loose
--Hue then challenges the play?
I think Hue should have challenged the call. I told my son I could see that review going either way, but you still have to challenge it considering the time and score of the game.
At the time, I thought it was dumb, but looking back at it, I don't think it was as stupid as I felt initially.
I think the play happened exactly as you described ... Brown caught the ball, Hue called time-out to stop the clock as you normally would in that instance. It looked like a catch from what I saw live. Then the jumbo-tron plays the replay, they show the ball popping out, and Hue throws the challenge flag.
Now, whether it was a good challenge is debatable. Looking at it myself, I thought it was still a fairly obvious catch. But like others have said, the NFL has been pretty wishy-washy about "making a football move" and such. Maybe he felt it was a last ditch effort to get a lucky call and go for the win/tie with time still left on the clock? If he hadn't of challenged, then if we're fortunate, we maybe get the ball back with 20 seconds to go? Then people crucify him for not trying to challenge? I can think of worse time-management crimes to pin on him.
It was a hail mary and I don't blame Hue for challenging it. IIRC, that was 3rd down. A faint hope of incomplete means the Steelers had to punt deep in their own territory. The Browns would have the ball with over 2 minutes remaining with 1 TO left only needing a FG to tie.
I get that you have a really wide TV, but how do you know that it didn't happen like this.
--Brown makes the catch
--Hue calls TO to stop the clock
--An assistant reviews the replay during the timeout and let's Hue know that the ball came loose
--Hue then challenges the play?
I think Hue should have challenged the call. I told my son I could see that review going either way, but you still have to challenge it considering the time and score of the game.
At the time, I thought it was dumb, but looking back at it, I don't think it was as stupid as I felt initially.
I think the play happened exactly as you described ... Brown caught the ball, Hue called time-out to stop the clock as you normally would in that instance. It looked like a catch from what I saw live. Then the jumbo-tron plays the replay, they show the ball popping out, and Hue throws the challenge flag.
Now, whether it was a good challenge is debatable. Looking at it myself, I thought it was still a fairly obvious catch. But like others have said, the NFL has been pretty wishy-washy about "making a football move" and such. Maybe he felt it was a last ditch effort to get a lucky call and go for the win/tie with time still left on the clock? If he hadn't of challenged, then if we're fortunate, we maybe get the ball back with 20 seconds to go? Then people crucify him for not trying to challenge? I can think of worse time-management crimes to pin on him.
I think you and Vers are right. What idiot would spend a TO in order to decide if he wants to risk losing a TO.
I don't that initially the play came into question. I don't think Hue's intent was taking the TO to review the play to see if it's worth challenging. I do think that during the initial TO his guys in the booth alerted him that the odds were very good to have that call reversed. So he trusts them and then challenges and loses.
I know. I was not suggesting we had the option of having it assessed on the 2 point conversion. My point was that it would be more beneficial if that was an option.
Yes, at that point in the game I would much rather be sitting in that situation than in a situation where it doesn't matter what we do.
On another note, I was thinking about the run game, and it would be easy to wonder about the effectiveness of the o-line, and the ineffectiveness of Crow, but weren't the Steelers stacking the line most of the day? I think their strategy was to take away the run and make Kizer throw. I didn't see many holes, and Crow's dreaded forward lean didn't help, but the Steelers did a great job shutting down our run game. Eventually, as Kizer gets better, teams will need to back off from that approach and (especially as our O-line gels) the run game should open up.
The Browns were competitive in this game. If not for a special teams flub its arguable that the Browns could have won this game.
I like that Hue kept giving the ground game a chance, even though they struggled. The Steelers were a strong run front last year and its not easy to keep stick with it when they're not having success. When you run the ball against good fronts sometimes there are gonna be games like this. But sticking to the run even still sets up play-action and eats the clock.
I think the fault can be spread all around, but I ain't mad at them. I thought a few plays could have been checked out of, I thought they could have schemed to run against nickel fronts, I thought the interior OL could have opened more holes and I thought Crow missed a couple reads.
Fair post, Hack. This D bottled up a rusty Bell. Apparently our gameplay had a number of spectator sacks built in, like a number we can play with competitively. Still. much improved for us. Yours was so-so IMO. But each team has upside.
Yeah, if Dayes the up back on the punt team lines up on the left instead of the right the punt probably wouldn't have been blocked. Pitt had 5 guys rushing from the left side and we only had 4 blockers to that side.
I was pleasantly surprised by what I saw yesterday. Might be some hope for more than a few wins this season. Defense played great up front. DK will learn when not to take those sacks. Run game needs a spark for sure.
The Bad Challenge: I was a bit confused that the long pass at the end of the game was looked at. Waste of time. It was not NFL "clear evidence". But...there was a HUGE hold to spring Ben loose so he could throw that. Right in front of a ref too. Oh well, spilled milk.
I think the only reason he did it was because time was running out and if he could have managed to get it overturned Pittsburgh would have 3rd and 12 from their own 18 and if we could have stopped on the 3rd down we should have had good field position after the punt with only needing a FG to tie.
I didn't read the entire thread but here goes anyway.....
OL
For the money invested on the OL, I certainly didn't see the run blocking everyone said we would see. But then I wasn't as impressed with the signings as many others were. If the run blocking doesn't improve it could be a long season. While it's true that Kizer held the ball too long on some of those sacks, it's also true that on some of those sacks, their D got to him before he had a chance to do anything. There's enough blame to go around on those sacks. The OL is a unit I really wasn't very impressed with.
Secondary
Kindred looked great! He's progressed by leaps and bounds! Body Calhoun is also a player who seems to be on the rise. I believed from his play last year that he was the type of player who would progress but in the case of both of these guys, it seems that are stepping up. Otherwise I didn't see anything to get excited about in this unit.
D front seven
Everyone seemed to do what needed to be done in stepping up in the absence of Garrett. Ogbah stepped up as well as Nasib that stood out to me.
Kizer
While there's good and bad here, the bad was expected and the good just can't be taught. As I mentioned earlier, some of those sacks were on Kizer, some weren't. The speed of the NFL is something all QB's have to adjust to and Kizer is no different. He will have to get used to surveying the field much faster and get rid of the ball quicker. Throwing the ball away and living for another play is something he'll have to get used to. As much as Browns fans hate to see it, he needs a constant check down option as a safety valve. All young QB's do.
I think what everyone should keep in mind is that every O in the NFL is a little rusty going into their first game. At least almost every O. What we saw yesterday is a snap shot, not a feature length film. Yet after saying that, I liked the snap shot.
As much as Browns fans hate to see it, he needs a constant check down option as a safety valve. All young QB's do.
You're right, and I don't hate to see it, and it's not just young QBs. When everyone is covered deep, an open check down can often lead to big yards and/or first downs. With Crow, Duke & Dayes all able to catch out of the backfield, plus a couple pass catching TEs, it's silly not to have a safety valve there for Kizer, especially on deep balls.
i'll be honest, I would have called timeout ... then seen the replay and challenged it just like Hue did. I never saw Brown bobble/drop the ball at first glance. Of course, I don't have anyone checking replays or anything like that.
On a play like that just throw the challenge flag no matter what. You're going to use a timeout either way.
Bengals LB Vontaze Burfict shares Steelers’ dirty plays on Twitter
95 comments
The Steelers were head hunting on Sunday in their season opener against the Browns and Vontaze Burfict wants to make sure everyone knows about it.
by Rebecca Toback@Rebecca_Toback Sep 10, 2017, 9:52pm EDT
Photo by Justin K. Aller/Getty Images
Cincinnati Bengals linebacker Vontaze Burfict is currently at home serving his three-game suspension to open the 2017 NFL season.
Like many NFL fans, Burfict noticed the Pittsburgh Steelers were busy making questionable hits and decision on Sunday in their season opener against the Cleveland Browns. The Steelers came away with a 21-18 win in Cleveland.
One of the above-mentioned plays that Burfict tweeted about was a hit by Steelers linebacker Ryan Shazier on Browns quarterback Deshone Kizer. This was a blatant cheap shot and headhunting by Shazier, and not unlike hits we’ve seen from him in the past. (Remember his hit on Giovani Bernard in the Bengals vs Steelers wild card game in January 2016... Yes, it was technically legal, but it was also a cheap shot. OK, now forget about that, because we’ve all had enough Bengals negativity for one day.)
Burfict retweeted this post, which shows the hit:
Burfict’s other tweet was in regards to Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger twisting the ankle of Browns defensive end Emmanuel Ogbah, for no reason other than being dirty.
“Bruhhhh,” Burfict wrote of Roethlisberger’s actions.
There was also this play from Steelers cornerback William Gay, who laid out Browns wide receiver Ricardo Louis with a hit to the head. Burfict must have missed this one...
Will the NFL take notice? Or, will they continue to let the Steelers get a pass?
The Steelers were stacking the line. That seems to be the standard D play against us that started last year. Stack the line with 7 or 8 guys and dare our QB's to throw it. That's why we need our WR's to stretch the field and CATCH the ball when it's thrown to them!!! Maybe Coates and Kassen can do this when they learn the O.
Ben and A. Brown are most likely HOF players who are in sync. The Steelers have one of the better offenses in the game.
The Browns defense hung right in there. The run defense was excellent. The Steelers got nothing in the first half.
Garrett will bring another dimension. The Browns defense will keep them in games this year unless injuries get them bad.
Schobert, Peppers, the interior DL all played well.
Number 21 Taylor tackles like a punter. Pathetic.
Offense:
For a first NFL game going against the Steelers in the opener a 21 year old with zero NFL experience; Kizer did just fine.
As each game goes by watch how he learns. First game you have to expect bumps. Post snap recognition will only come with experience. He just didn't see everything all at once. At the same time he didn't panic. He made some very good throws. He missed some. One turnover on a bad read.
I thought Duke Johnson would be used heavily in this game. Quick outlet passes and slant routes. He got hurt early and didn't play much of a role.
Crowell is the runner I have seen. Average. Does some good things but is not exceptional. Missed a key block that lead to a sack.
Coleman had a good game. I believe Kizer and Coleman will develop together.
OL was ok. The run game has to improve.
Britt dropped a big throw. "You are a professional Britt you have to make that catch". Outside of Coleman not much there. Njoku I think will improve.
For a first NFL game going against the Steelers in the opener a 21 year old with zero NFL experience; Kizer did just fine.
I was just thinking Hue deserves props for getting Kizer ready to play, and Kizer deserves props for the work he put in to get ready. Initially I was hoping Brock would develop to the point we wouldn't need Kizer this year, but given the performances throughout TC & the preseason it seems Hue took the correct approach in getting the QB ready who, not only gives us the best chance, could be our future at QB.
Yeah, if Dayes the up back on the punt team lines up on the left instead of the right the punt probably wouldn't have been blocked. Pitt had 5 guys rushing from the left side and we only had 4 blockers to that side.
If Days makes his block...BROWNS WIN!
Those kind of blown assignments do cost games and that is exactly what happened to the Browns yesterday.
You are correct about the Steelers overloading the left side of the Browns OLine, showing 5 but only rushing 4.
I can't add anything to what has already been said. In the game day thread, I said what I expected was improved D and OL. I definitely saw better D. I also said that, win or lose, I wanted Pitt to leave town knowing they had been in a real NFL game. That was accomplished. The fans may not have noticed, but the team knows they were in a fight.
Ouch. Puns harm ignorant bystanders. They are least tolerated by those most incapable of making (and getting!) them. I think Ben Franklin said that or something close to it.
The defense was as advertised - quick and physical, great improvement. Kindred and Schobert stood out. I'm not certain about the (very) deep single safety but Peppers didn't look out of place.
Kizer looked decent for his first start but to echo a lot of others - we need to be a top 10 running team to give him any chance this year. The Steelers' D is good but we had too many runs for little or negative yardage. I appreciate it was all out of the shotgun but we need to be able to make it 3rd and manageable. Hopefully chemistry with one or two receivers will start to build - Coleman also impressed me.
I also liked the fact Hue was always talking to Kizer after he came off. I think we have a fighting chance at finding a QB with Hue.
Overall the team feels like it has a different vibe. I think they believed they could win. So did I. Cincy and Baltimore look vulnerable. We are better than last year no doubt.
I'd personally like to see more Dayes. I know he's just a rookie, but I like his burst and cuts
not to mention he's decent at picking up blitzes
Yeah, Crow missed some blocks today.
I understand that Crow didn't play well today. I agree with that. But the part I don't understand is wanting to go to Dayes. You could argue Dayes was even worse than Crow today. It seems to me that too much of the time starters never get the benefit of the doubt and the backup gets tons of leeway.
I like Dayes and am looking forward to watching him develop over the course of the season, but he didn't do anything with his opportunities today.
You can't grade on an absentee. Dayes did pass block well in the preseason.
I appreciate it was all out of the shotgun but we need to be able to make it 3rd and manageable.
I think Zagura mentioned that Crow averaged 6ypc out of the gun last year. The lack of run game had more to do with pit stacking the line and (to a lesser extent) Crow perhaps not hitting the (correct?) hole.
Man, I was hoping we'd get past the game management issue.
I don't think it was a game management issue as much as it was that the NFL still has not clearly defined when a catch is a catch and when it's not. Hue saw the same exact replay the ref ended up seeing.. it's not that you see something different, it's that the rule is vague as to when the play is over on a play like that. You used to have to catch it, come down with it, get up with it, walk to sidelines with it, sit down with it, take a shower with it.. then it was a catch. Evidently there is now a point at which you are rolling around on the ground but the catch is over.. where that point is doesn't seem all that clear.
On the radio this morning Jim Donovan was giving his thoughts on the game...here is my attempt at paraphrasing:
-Crowell missed more than a few holes and went the wrong way. Donovan doesn't think running from the shotgun plays to Crow's strength.
-Donovan thinks Hue needs to ease up on the pre-snap movements as too often the Browns had to hurry up to beat the play clock. That frantic action caused trouble in executing the play.
-Donovan was critical of the OL and specifically mentioned the struggles of the C.
-Donovan stated that the WRs had trouble getting open in general.
-He was quite pleased with what he saw out of Kizer.
I kept/keep thinking of two plays that we botched completely on our own accord. Not times when we were stopped or beaten...just out there all by our one-sy:
1.)Kenny Britt's drop...wide open...room to run. Unbelievable. 2.)K Williams not knowing where is the sideline. Just for giggles, add those catches to Kizer's stats. It's one thing when you get beat or out-played by another guy or when the bad guy simply makes a play...it's an entirely different animal to bone up a big play with no one there to stop you.
On the radio this morning Jim Donovan was giving his thoughts on the game...here is my attempt at paraphrasing:
-Crowell missed more than a few holes and went the wrong way. Donovan doesn't think running from the shotgun plays to Crow's strength.
-Donovan thinks Hue needs to ease up on the pre-snap movements as too often the Browns had to hurry up to beat the play clock. That frantic action caused trouble in executing the play.
-Donovan was critical of the OL and specifically mentioned the struggles of the C.
-Donovan stated that the WRs had trouble getting open in general.
-He was quite pleased with what he saw out of Kizer.
I kept/keep thinking of two plays that we botched completely on our own accord. Not times when we were stopped or beaten...just out there all by our one-sy:
1.)Kenny Britt's drop...wide open...room to run. Unbelievable. 2.)K Williams not knowing where is the sideline. Just for giggles, add those catches to Kizer's stats. It's one thing when you get beat or out-played by another guy or when the bad guy simply makes a play...it's an entirely different animal to bone up a big play with no one there to stop you.
Williams had no choice but to go out of bounds. That ball was headed that way regardless.
Man, I was hoping we'd get past the game management issue.
I don't think it was a game management issue as much as it was that the NFL still has not clearly defined when a catch is a catch and when it's not. Hue saw the same exact replay the ref ended up seeing.. it's not that you see something different, it's that the rule is vague as to when the play is over on a play like that. You used to have to catch it, come down with it, get up with it, walk to sidelines with it, sit down with it, take a shower with it.. then it was a catch. Evidently there is now a point at which you are rolling around on the ground but the catch is over.. where that point is doesn't seem all that clear.
If you're Hue, you have to challenge that. He did the right thing. I can live with him losing that challenge. I don't think any of us would be good with him not challenging that.
I 100% agree that the referees and the league need to get together and decide what a catch is, because right now nobody is on the same page. If you want to call Antonio Brown's play a catch, that's fine, but that better be consistent.
Man, I was hoping we'd get past the game management issue.
I don't think it was a game management issue as much as it was that the NFL still has not clearly defined when a catch is a catch and when it's not. Hue saw the same exact replay the ref ended up seeing.. it's not that you see something different, it's that the rule is vague as to when the play is over on a play like that. You used to have to catch it, come down with it, get up with it, walk to sidelines with it, sit down with it, take a shower with it.. then it was a catch. Evidently there is now a point at which you are rolling around on the ground but the catch is over.. where that point is doesn't seem all that clear.
It was a mismanagement. Why call a TO, then throw the challenge? Just throw the flag. That way you only use 1 TO at worst. This way, we used 2.
On the radio this morning Jim Donovan was giving his thoughts on the game...here is my attempt at paraphrasing:
-Crowell missed more than a few holes and went the wrong way. Donovan doesn't think running from the shotgun plays to Crow's strength.
-Donovan thinks Hue needs to ease up on the pre-snap movements as too often the Browns had to hurry up to beat the play clock. That frantic action caused trouble in executing the play.
-Donovan was critical of the OL and specifically mentioned the struggles of the C.
-Donovan stated that the WRs had trouble getting open in general.
-He was quite pleased with what he saw out of Kizer.
I kept/keep thinking of two plays that we botched completely on our own accord. Not times when we were stopped or beaten...just out there all by our one-sy:
1.)Kenny Britt's drop...wide open...room to run. Unbelievable. 2.)K Williams not knowing where is the sideline. Just for giggles, add those catches to Kizer's stats. It's one thing when you get beat or out-played by another guy or when the bad guy simply makes a play...it's an entirely different animal to bone up a big play with no one there to stop you.
Williams had no choice but to go out of bounds. That ball was headed that way regardless.
Agreed I remember Kizer throwing that one and it was far to over
That pass was 100% Kizer's fault. It's not like Williams drifted out of bounds and then came back onto the field to make the catch. And it's not like he was standing on a spot in-bounds when the pass came his way. He ran to a spot where the ball was going and it was out of bounds. There is no way a receiver, looking back over his shoulder and adjusting to the path of the ball while on the run, can know where the sideline is and attempt to make some sort of circus catch.
If it's an out-route, then yes, he should of put the landing gear down. If he floated out of bounds in the first couple steps of his release, then yes, he's at fault. But on fly-route like that, Kizer's got to put it in a place where he's standing in bounds after he catches it.
And honestly, I'm not even that mad at Kizer for the pass. he missed it by 6 inches, and most our previous QB would of missed it by yards if they even attempted the throw in the first place.
I'd be interested to see a stat that showed the seconds from snap to sack. If it was 2.5 or more, seems that would be on the QB? Less would be on the OL.
I get that you have a really wide TV, but how do you know that it didn't happen like this.
--Brown makes the catch
--Hue calls TO to stop the clock
--An assistant reviews the replay during the timeout and let's Hue know that the ball came loose
--Hue then challenges the play?
I think Hue should have challenged the call. I told my son I could see that review going either way, but you still have to challenge it considering the time and score of the game.
I've thought about this some more today and I'm coming around to your perspective. I can see how it would play out exactly as you stated. Assuming Hue thought it was a catch, he calls a TO to stop the clock. The challenge was a secondary decision.
I would argue that if it's a close play like that just use the challenge in place of a TO. But that could be wasting a challenge on a perfectly good play.
I think I was too quick to judge that particular play.
The defense was as advertised - quick and physical, great improvement. Kindred and Schobert stood out. I'm not certain about the (very) deep single safety but Peppers didn't look out of place.
Kizer looked decent for his first start but to echo a lot of others - we need to be a top 10 running team to give him any chance this year. The Steelers' D is good but we had too many runs for little or negative yardage. I appreciate it was all out of the shotgun but we need to be able to make it 3rd and manageable. Hopefully chemistry with one or two receivers will start to build - Coleman also impressed me.
I also liked the fact Hue was always talking to Kizer after he came off. I think we have a fighting chance at finding a QB with Hue.
Overall the team feels like it has a different vibe. I think they believed they could win. So did I. Cincy and Baltimore look vulnerable. We are better than last year no doubt.
DeShone Kizer, the fourth quarterback selected in the 2017 NFL draft, was the first signal-caller in his class to start a game. While the Cleveland Browns fell to the Pittsburgh Steelers, 21-18, he showed some of the flashes that earned him the starting job in camp. Kizer was by no means perfect Sunday, but he demonstrated he can be the face of the Browns franchise going forward.
All rookie quarterbacks face an adjustment to the speed of the professional game. Players are faster, the throwing windows are smaller and when the defense rolls its coverage, it comes later in the play and much closer to the snap. To account for those differences, Kizer needs to speed up his mental processing.
On many of the sacks he took Sunday, he was too slow to go through his progressions or to throw the ball away. One such play came on a max-protection concept, with only two receivers running pass patterns. Kizer was flushed to his left, away from the play design, but he tried to stay upright and work back toward the right to stay on structure. In such moments, he needs to get rid of the ball and move on to the next down. On his interception, he stared down the route concept and never felt the underneath zone coverage, throwing a bad-looking pick.
On the bright side, Kizer seemed to speed up his processing as the game went on. Perhaps his best drive Sunday was on Cleveland's final offensive possession, which he capped off with his first regular-season touchdown pass and a successful two-point conversion to get the Browns within three points in the closing minutes. When Cleveland went uptempo, Kizer seemed more comfortable and quicker with his decision-making. His post route to Ricardo Louis that went for a 29-yard gain is a perfect example. Kizer confirmed the coverage, hit the final step of his drop and got the ball out right on time with good velocity and placement.
Kizer is by no means a finished product, as he must continue improving his processing speed in particular. But his play in the final minutes against Pittsburgh and the growth he seemed to show throughout Sunday bodes well for him and the Browns moving forward.
Browns played a nice game Sunday. I think y'all are onto something with this group. I advise every one of you.....if you hear any rumblings about another coaching or regime change in the next 3 years.....every single Browns fan in the country needs to storm the gates of the Browns front office with torches and pitchforks. Consistency and stability is absolutely key to turning this thing around permanently. It seems to be on the right track. Derailing it would be the worst mistake ever.
Anyways, we will do it all again in a couple months. Cheers.
Browns played a nice game Sunday. I think y'all are onto something with this group. I advise every one of you.....if you hear any rumblings about another coaching or regime change in the next 3 years.....every single Browns fan in the country needs to storm the gates of the Browns front office with torches and pitchforks. Consistency and stability is absolutely key to turning this thing around permanently.
Anyways, we will do it all again in a couple months. Cheers.
Although I like this coaching and GM staff, there are things that a glaringly wrong, 1) Apparently, we cannot evaluate WR talent. With all the picks we have made at that position, Britt has not lived up to his paycheck. Then, when are some of these younger players going to emerge. 2) The Browns have not found an answer to the right side of the o-line. From our Center to Right tackle, we still have some problems. And we cannot run LEFT EVERY PLAY. Some of that, Kizer has to check out of. 3) Does Hue not believe in a swing pass to a RB or some scheme that puts Duke one on one with a LB.
But there were some bright spots which give me hope.
Although I like this coaching and GM staff, there are things that a glaringly wrong, 1) Apparently, we cannot evaluate WR talent. With all the picks we have made at that position, Britt has not lived up to his paycheck. Then, when are some of these younger players going to emerge. 2) The Browns have not found an answer to the right side of the o-line. From our Center to Right tackle, we still have some problems. And we cannot run LEFT EVERY PLAY. Some of that, Kizer has to check out of. 3) Does Hue not believe in a swing pass to a RB or some scheme that puts Duke one on one with a LB.
But there were some bright spots which give me hope.
I think the biggest issue is having talent on he roster and a stable system to have them learn in. The Browns seem to be stockpiling talent finally. Now instead of using drafts to start over and find that one star player to build around, they can use drafts to plug in holes and weak spots because there will already be talent there. That's how culture change happens. The rest is just details that will follow.
Trust me I grew up a Steeler fan in the 80's. I watched the offense led by QB's like Mark Malone, Bubby Brister and Todd Blackledge stumble and bumble around year after year. There were a couple very good players on the team at that time but the rest of the roster was lacking badly. If the Browns keep drafting well and don't scrap coaches/systems every 2 years, it will happen.
Pitt, I can agree with stockpiling picks and young talent but the part of that problem is that its YOUNG TALENT. You have to sprinkle in some vets that can lead and teach that talent.
Also, the last two drafts, alot of players were brought in but I see us purging alot of picks. And Britt just wants to get paid, he is not a good replacement WR. But I will hold judgement until after this season.
Pitt, I can agree with stockpiling picks and young talent but the part of that problem is that its YOUNG TALENT. You have to sprinkle in some vets that can lead and teach that talent.
Also, the last two drafts, alot of players were brought in but I see us purging alot of picks. And Britt just wants to get paid, he is not a good replacement WR. But I will hold judgement until after this season.
Agreed. You have to retain talent once you develop it. You also have to make smart free agent acquisitions. That's one thing that Pittsburgh usually excels at. They target free agents who fit their system that may not necessarily be the top priced guys on the market. They are usually the mid ranged guys....and most of the time they work out. Yes, you can laugh at Justin Gilbert last year lol. That was a bad call.
Case in point a guy like Tyson Alualu. The guy was what most would consider to be a first round bust for the Jags but has turned himself into a good role player. Pittsburgh signed him to be a rotational back up and sure enough they lose a starting defensive lineman on the 2nd play of the game Sunday, likely for most or all of the season. Alualu stepped in and did a heckuva job for 4 quarters. He was not a highly sought after free agent but he fits. Derrious Heyward Bey is another. He was one of the worst 1st Round busts in years with the Raiders. But the guy just loves football. Pittsburgh signed him for peanuts and he has been their best Special Teams coverage player for like 5 years. They also target guys in the draft that fit the system and have the work ethic, even though they might not be the flashiest prospects.
Pitt, Gilbert is a miss that BOTH teams fell victim of. You look at his "numbers" and people got enamored!! But if they would have spoken to him and checked his"heart", they would have found that the dog can't hunt!!
And in the NFL, teams make that mistake alot, especially at the QB position. Brock is one who fits that description. Great numbers, but when the bullets are flying, not good. Then teams they can fix that.
As far as the "dirty" hits in question go, the only one I thought was egregious was the one by Watt and he didn't even hit a Browns player, he hit his own guy in the back. I read a quote today where Watt called it a completely stupid play on his part. Said he saw Kizer on the ground , got excited and "blacked out" whatever that means. The high hits by Gay and Wilcox are forbidden in today's NFL but they are still football plays to me....I guess I am too old school. Especially the Wilcox hit because a guy is catching the ball on the goal line to possibly take the lead in the game. I think instinct takes over and guys don't really think about lining up a hit in the "strike zone" Goodell approved area in that situation, they hit the first thing they get to.
At the same time he can't argue it, the rules are clearly defined. But I don't see it as a dirty play or an intent to hurt somebody....even though he hurt himself. I saw it as a desperation play to try and break up the pass and save the game for his team. It's the exact kind of hit that all our high school coaches would have been overjoyed with. But alas, the game has changed drastically.....and I get that with the head injuries. I still have a hard time watching this new era of play sometimes.
There's a big difference to me between those types of hits and a guy who is an ankle twister and nut puncher like Burfict. He has no room to talk about anybody....on any team.
As far as the "dirty" hits in question go, the only one I thought was egregious was the one by Watt and he didn't even hit a Browns player, he hit his own guy in the back. I read a quote today where Watt called it a completely stupid play on his part. Said he saw Kizer on the ground , got excited and "blacked out" whatever that means. The high hits by Gay and Wilcox are forbidden in today's NFL but they are still football plays to me....I guess I am too old school. Especially the Wilcox hit because a guy is catching the ball on the goal line to possibly take the lead in the game. I think instinct takes over and guys don't really think about lining up a hit in the "strike zone" Goodell approved area in that situation, they hit the first thing they get to.
At the same time he can't argue it, the rules are clearly defined. But I don't see it as a dirty play or an intent to hurt somebody....even though he hurt himself. I saw it as a desperation play to try and break up the pass and save the game for his team. It's the exact kind of hit that all our high school coaches would have been overjoyed with. But alas, the game has changed drastically.....and I get that with the head injuries. I still have a hard time watching this new era of play sometimes.
There's a big difference to me between those types of hits and a guy who is an ankle twister and nut puncher like Burfict. He has no room to talk about anybody....on any team.
The hit by Shazier wasn't dirty in your mind?!? Come on!
I agree the other hits long ago would be considered good, hard hits but not in today's NFL. Players need to adjust to that - as long as it's called consistently I don't have a problem with it.
As far as the "dirty" hits in question go, the only one I thought was egregious was the one by Watt and he didn't even hit a Browns player, he hit his own guy in the back. I read a quote today where Watt called it a completely stupid play on his part. Said he saw Kizer on the ground , got excited and "blacked out" whatever that means. The high hits by Gay and Wilcox are forbidden in today's NFL but they are still football plays to me....I guess I am too old school. Especially the Wilcox hit because a guy is catching the ball on the goal line to possibly take the lead in the game. I think instinct takes over and guys don't really think about lining up a hit in the "strike zone" Goodell approved area in that situation, they hit the first thing they get to.
At the same time he can't argue it, the rules are clearly defined. But I don't see it as a dirty play or an intent to hurt somebody....even though he hurt himself. I saw it as a desperation play to try and break up the pass and save the game for his team. It's the exact kind of hit that all our high school coaches would have been overjoyed with. But alas, the game has changed drastically.....and I get that with the head injuries. I still have a hard time watching this new era of play sometimes.
There's a big difference to me between those types of hits and a guy who is an ankle twister and nut puncher like Burfict. He has no room to talk about anybody....on any team.
The hit by Shazier wasn't dirty in your mind?!? Come on!
I agree the other hits long ago would be considered good, hard hits but not in today's NFL. Players need to adjust to that - as long as it's called consistently I don't have a problem with it.
I forgot about that one actually. No I wouldn't necessarily call it dirty....I'd probably call it borderline. Of course in slow motion is looks worse that it actually was because it looks like the hit came later than it did.....but man that was one heck of a late slide. I'm sure Shazier had already launched himself for the hit by the time Kizer started to go down. It was so late that the slide and the hit happened almost simultaneously. Kizer has to get down earlier to avoid getting hit like that in the future.
I forgot about that one actually. No I wouldn't necessarily call it dirty....I'd probably call it borderline. Of course in slow motion is looks worse that it actually was because it looks like the hit came later than it did.....but man that was one heck of a late slide. I'm sure Shazier had already launched himself for the hit by the time Kizer started to go down. It was so late that the slide and the hit happened almost simultaneously. Kizer has to get down earlier to avoid getting hit like that in the future
Even if you feel it was a "late slide" he led with his helmet. Dirty play period. As I said, the other ones, I would agree they were good, hard hits but the NFL is very conscientious of head injuries now, and rightfully so if they want the game to be relevant in the future. Ben's twisting ankle grab was also dirty as hell but it didn't get called. Don't mess with a players legs like that period.
I forgot about that one actually. No I wouldn't necessarily call it dirty....I'd probably call it borderline. Of course in slow motion is looks worse that it actually was because it looks like the hit came later than it did.....but man that was one heck of a late slide. I'm sure Shazier had already launched himself for the hit by the time Kizer started to go down. It was so late that the slide and the hit happened almost simultaneously. Kizer has to get down earlier to avoid getting hit like that in the future
Even if you feel it was a "late slide" he led with his helmet. Dirty play period. As I said, the other ones, I would agree they were good, hard hits but the NFL is very conscientious of head injuries now, and rightfully so if they want the game to be relevant in the future. Ben's twisting ankle grab was also dirty as hell but it didn't get called. Don't mess with a players legs like that period.
Don't forget Watt diving helmet first into Kizer's tricep on his throwing arm after he was already down. Looked like he was aiming for his shoulder. Fortunately he missed. Must be a mind numbing shock for pit to see those POS "plays" finally get called as penalties. The whole world knows it's BS. The league is finally catching up, but pit has yet to get the memo. Watt's a rookie, so it's definitely learned behavior. Face it, they teach dirty play. With the new rule of two personal fouls and you're out, their only concession is to spread the penalties out amongst the players.
Pretty sure Shazier was the first one. He hit him in the head. Watt took his shot too. (#90?) Got him in the arm. Shazier's hit would've been excusable had he not led with the crown of his helmet, it was so bang-bang, but Watt speared with intent.
The four calls I'm thinking of (Although I swear there was a 5th):
- Shazier hits Kizer on the ground as he's sliding. I could "maybe" see it as a situation where he went into a tackle and couldn't stop himself IF ONLY he had made any sort of attempt to try to pull out of the tackle. Instead, he lead with his helmet and followed through with his hit. Can't see this as anything other than dirty.
- Kizer gets sacked and Watt dives onto the pile to deliver one last hit. Kizer was already on the ground when Watt goes into his lunge, and again, he goes helmet first. I don't see how anyone can see that as a clean football play.
- Gay crushes Ricardo Lewis on the sideline. Okay, here, we're at least getting into the whole "Five years ago, this wasn't a penalty" thing. But there's still three things wrong with how this hit went down, and I have no idea how it wasn't immediately called. 1) He blew up the receiver in the middle of his catching motion, which is against the rules as of this year. They want you to make a play on the ball or use your arms and hands to knock him off his route, rather than your well padded body in an attempt to remove his head. 2) He went helmet-to-helmet, which was against the rules even last year, and 3) He led with his helmet, which is supposed to be spearing (and against the rules forever, just never called). I didn't think this was really that dirty per say, but something that the player should know not to do by now.
- Coleman gets hit on the goal-line. Again, this is similar to the play above, but probably not as bad as trying to take off a guys head who's just standing there. Still, he lead with his head and blew up a receiver mid-catch. Things like this make me think the Steelers are actively coaching their players to do this, despite the league telling players not to. I'm honestly surprised more Steelers players haven't broken their necks hitting the way they do.
n the bright side, if Kizer pans out, we have 5 picks in the 1st 2 rounds ..... so we could add a couple of highly rated WR and CB in rounds 1 and 2. Think of how much better this team could be with that kind of talent infusion.
5 picks in the 1st 2 rounds... so we could add a couple of highly rated WR and CB in rounds 1 and 2.
One of the nice things about all this is that (assuming Kizer pans out) we're reaching a point where we'll be able to draft more BPA and less "need". (I imagine we'll also be looking for a top tier LT to begin grooming.)
Man, I was hoping we'd get past the game management issue.
I don't think it was a game management issue as much as it was that the NFL still has not clearly defined when a catch is a catch and when it's not. Hue saw the same exact replay the ref ended up seeing.. it's not that you see something different, it's that the rule is vague as to when the play is over on a play like that. You used to have to catch it, come down with it, get up with it, walk to sidelines with it, sit down with it, take a shower with it.. then it was a catch. Evidently there is now a point at which you are rolling around on the ground but the catch is over.. where that point is doesn't seem all that clear.
It was a mismanagement. Why call a TO, then throw the challenge? Just throw the flag. That way you only use 1 TO at worst. This way, we used 2.
In hindsight you are right but in the moment, on the field, nobody knew there was anything to challenge and you HAVE TO stop the clock.
Sure, the way it played out we can call it mismanagement, we had 2 challenges, we were less than a minute from the 2:00 minute warning anyway when challenges get called by officials..
Sure, looking back there was nothing to lose but it's not instinctive to just throw the flag for no reason in hopes that there is something to challenge when all you are really thinking about it a timeout. In fact, since the challenge rule was implemented, I don't think I've ever seen a coach just throw a random flag out in the final few minutes because, "What the hell, I need a timeout anyway."
I'm wondering if a re-examination of the rule might be in order. If you have already called a time out, and after that fact, you realize a challenge is in order, throwing the flag doesn't cost you a 2nd time out.
Here is the full article from which that cut n paste on twitter was from ... it's interesting. If I had not known I would have said it was written by a Browns homer - a little too much praise!
Kizer's mental ability to adjust to the NFL and NFL defenses will determine his ceiling. We can all see that he throws the ball beautifully and seemingly effortlessly.... that's not to say he was always accurate and doesn't need to learn some touch, and he also needs to continue to work on his feet/body - but to me he looks like he has a pretty fast release and his mechanics come 'naturally'. It is interesting to see someone analyze the play calling and what Kizer was actually asked to do.
While initially I was hopeful that Kizer sat for 1/2 a season - I think if he can play as well as he did against Pit, he's going to be learning and developing faster than by sitting. . . I just hope he stays healthy.
I'm wondering if a re-examination of the rule might be in order. If you have already called a time out, and after that fact, you realize a challenge is in order, throwing the flag doesn't cost you a 2nd time out.
The only issue with that would be it might be subject to abuse ... if you are trying to buy extra time you can call the TO ... wait for that to nearly expire and then challenge. You get additional time while the review is taking place.
Here is the full article from which that cut n paste on twitter was from ... it's interesting. If I had not known I would have said it was written by a Browns homer - a little too much praise!
It was written by former NFL cornerback Dominique Foxworth.
[quoteIt was so late that the slide and the hit happened almost simultaneously. Kizer has to get down earlier to avoid getting hit like that in the future][/quote]
Come on Pitt, "late slide"? Did that make Shazier lower his head?
I love that you post here, and always appreciate your point of view, but that statement was nonsense.
I've never said this out loud before but Tomlin is one of my favorite coaches. I just like his style.
Me too. There was a game awhile back, not much time left around 2 minutes. The Steelers hadn't stopped the opposing offense all game.
The Steelers scored a TD to take a 2 point lead. But they went for the on-side kick instead of kicking it deep. The announcers were befuddled. But that speaks to advance knowledge a game situation/game theory. He realized that time was the enemy and he need to get the ball back to score again.
Kicking the ball deep would allow the team time to drive down the field and attempt a FG without leaving the Steelers any time left.
The onside allowed the D a chance to either stop them or not but regardless the short field ensured that whatever happened would happen quickly enough to get the ball back to answer.
They kicked the on-side the other team recovered it, drove the short field kicked a FG. Steelers got the ball back drove the field and scored to FTW.
Maclin, Decker, any one of a number of other options seem like it would have been a better option at this point. 
