DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Report: NFL denies Josh Gordon's reinstatement

I sympathize with your sentiments - but weed is against NFL policy and the NFL is Josh's employer. Josh needs to decide what's more important. End of story - many employers have a drug testing policy and if you have cannabis in your system you can be terminated.

Kap indeed exercise his right and I sympathize with him also - I think he's better than people give him credit for. He couldn't play for any scheme but he's got enough talent to be on a team and probably starting for a few based on what we've seen. . . . but at the same time NFL is a business. Anything that hurts their income (and Kap had a negative impact) - is going to get black balled or sidelined ... and that's without taking into account the distraction and media circus aspect that would follow. . . . it's not a reflection on society. It's a reflection of a business organization looking after it's profit margin.

Personally I think Zeke is a jerk ... that situation stinks. Just like the deal with the guy from the Panthers 3 years ago.

While I think Gordon owns plenty of what he has done and needs to take responsibility (and lord knows the Montgomery article does nothing to indicate he does) .... but this part here seems like just piling on for the sake of it. . . the "boozing" was after the end of the season, with Cleveland Coach (and players) .... he was unaware (as was the coach obviously) that the ban on his alcohol consumption went past the end of the season. There's a lot to criticize - and there is a pattern of behavior - but the 'boozing' escapade is marginal at very best.

Sure, but that was Josh's responsibility to know. This is his career. It's his job, and he needs to act like it.

You are responsible for yourself, and all mistakes you make, are your own in this instance. He should have been aware of the details. Not knowing is not an excuse

Certainly would be the best for Josh. Cris Carter was lobbying for this.

But screw CC and screw Josh.

I care about this team, first and foremost. I hope that Josh succeeds, but I'll be damned if we go and cut this guy; so he can finally get the message; and go to a rival and kick our butts.


We own his rights for two more seasons. He can play with us, and we can get value for him. Or he can not play at all.

We spent a draft pick on him. We will use him up as we see fit. That's the deal, and he can take it or not play football. Not my problem.............

There's always an excuse.

He tested positive for weed due to second-hand smoke.

He tested positive for codeine because he had a cold and took cough medicine.

He only blew a little over the legal limit on his DUI.

He got suspended by the team for the last game he was league-eligible because the Browns were out to get him.

He didn't know he wasn't allowed to drink.

He went to rehab instead of rejoining the team during the season because he 'finally wanted to get help', and not because he would have failed another test.

Agents keep dropping him because they don't know the real Josh.

---

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice three times four times five times six times seven times...

j/c:

Two things.

First - the fact that some states allow marijuana is irrelevant to this situation. The league says "no" to marijuana, so no one employed by the league can smoke it without fear of consequences. Plain and simple. Employers have the right to institute this kind of thing. The Cincinnati Reds don't allow facial hair, which is legal in this country (if not then Pittsburgh would have no women ).

Second - Tim Montgomery is vouching for Josh Gordon? Nice. Track athlete stripped of his records from the BALCO doping scandal, a scandal in which he was a central figure. Steroids are legal in this country, so I guess the USADA has no right to punish him for using them?

Not to mention the money laundering, and the heroin arrest. Just the kind of guy Gordon needs in his corner.

Or maybe he is another victim?

I don't think Manziel was involved (surprisingly). I just know that former wide receiver coach was on the plane. There is a "famous" picture of them all in front of the plane.

People hand out chances and opportunities to Gordon that he simply doesn't deserve like candy in Disneyland. I hate his annual "get excited and hyped" and seeing everyone say the things they do regarding him and his nature.

Dude has let us down more than anyone and most all people are beyond fast to look past all of it and etc. I'm done, and have been done, with this loser.

All JMO of course.

I haven't been to Disneyland in awhile, but I don't think they give away anything there. I bet the candy is actually pretty expensive.

LOL, I've actually never have been there to be honest. It's the point of the "flow" of "candy" that I was trying to express haha. Probably is like a movie theater though in terms of product pricing hahahahaha.

Step 1. Do not hang out with Johnny Manziel

Step 2. See Step 1

90 day rehab, sounds like he has really gotten serious this time. Not once before did I ever think he had a chance of staying clean. Now I can no longer say that. Good luck Josh, I hope you have your life in order and can be the player you have the potential to be. Kizer to Gordon sounds good.

Let's try to be honest here. The NFLPA has agreed to a contract. There are parameters in that contract which NFL players agree to in order to play in the league. Everything else said about this is nothing more than blah, blah, blah, blah.

Gordon has shown time and time again that he refuses to live up to that contract and the agreement the players have with the league. The agreement that all players are contractually obligated to. There's nobody to blame but Gordon.

Everything else are excuses and rationalizations.

I'd like to draw your opinion, once again, to a a couple lines in the Montgomery article.

Quote: He said he believes Gordon was denied reinstatement in May because he missed his mandatory drug tests, which are violations of the policy.

"It's my understanding that Josh was clean, but that he wasn't answering his phone,'' said Montgomery. "Josh would go somewhere and he wouldn't tell anyone he was going out of town and he wouldn't pick his phone up. He didn't want to tell his people 'I can't come out there because I've got to stay here and answer the phone for drugs tests.'''

Montgomery said Gordon 'almost got to the end. It was March when he started messing up.'

He said he believes Gordon might have been afraid of his superstar ability.
\quote

That's not a confusing agreement, or lack of support structure, or a big mean NFL commissioner conspiracy whatever. It's also not fear.
It's pure, undiluted stupidity.

I agree. But...
There's always a but...

But do you think that the players would drop the marijuana testing in a heart beat if it was totally up to them? I do.
So while it may be in the the contract they 'agreed' upon I doubt it's there because the players want it in there. They agree to it because it's the give and take of contract negotiations, and the NFL is filled with a bunch of rich white guy owners who lived through the reefer madness days. When 'marijuana made black men rape white women'. (For reference see... https://www.google.com/amp/www.tokeofthe...xual_p.php/amp/ )
So the NFL is stuck in a societal doldrum. As laws continue to change, this rule will change. It's just a matter of time. Sadly for JG it'll come too late.
My hope for him and the Browns is that he's clean and stays so until a HOF style retirement party, or the rules change.

***THIS POST WAS NOT MADE AS AN EXCUSE FOR JG, OR ANY OTHER NFL ATHLETE, AT THIS TIME, SMOKING CANNIBUS***

J/C.

The league says marijuana is not acceptable. Period. It doesn't matter if it's good for you, bad for you, or somewhere in between. The league says "no", the union agreed to it. Period.

Get tested, positive, there are stages you go through. Once you've gotten to the suspended part, that's it. Keep testing positive, the results get worse. Period.

The employer holds all the cards, and rightly so.

Let's change the topic a bit: A lady I know got hired here in town. Attendance to work, and being on time, is essential. The employer allows for - get this - 6 "absent days" per year. Unpaid, of course, If you aren't going in, and you call before your shift starts, it's no problem.

They also allow for 3 "sick days" per year. Again, all you have to do is call before your shift starts.

If/once you miss 9 days, on the 10 "miss" or "late", you get written up. Day 11 missed or late, written up and you get a "free" day off.

Day 12 missed? Fired. Period.

And yes, this lady got fired within 6 months for missing work.

Now, she claims she had great excuses for each day/time.

It is the employers right to fire someone for breaking the companies rules.

It is also the nfl's right to suspend a player for breaking the rules that employee agree to prior to them being in the league.

Once again you have nothing except buts. lol

Actually marijuana is illegal in some states and is illegal by federal law in all 50 states. On a personal level I promote legalizing weed. But that's not the law. Why would a business not have drug testing for a substance that is against federal law? Now you may call that a societal doldrum if you wish, but I don't see that as the case as long as it's federal law.

You do realize that even in states where weed is legal that many businesses still drug test for weed and you can still lose your job for its use, correct?

And yes, I understand that if the players had their way, not only would they overturn drug testing for weed, but probably PED's as well.

So once again, we can make all of the excuses we like, Josh isn't and hasn't lived up to his obligations and there's nobody to blame buy Josh.

If "if's and buts" were "candy and nuts", Josh Gordan would be the world's biggest fruitcake. It's time to stop handing this guy excuses and let him be an adult that is responsible for his own actions.

Fact is, marijuana is on the list of PED's in pretty much every sport worldwide, including all international competitions across all sports.

This isn't anything new or unique to the NFL.


That said, he's paid for his sins each time (the offense isn't much different than a parking ticket in severity or seriousness). If he stays clean and follows the rules, there's no reason to not let him back.

I don't really care if they let him back or not. That's not really my issue. My issue is that some seem to try to make excuses and not put the blame where it squarely belongs, on Josh.

And when it comes to a fist offense, you're right, no big deal. Yet with each offense the severity is increased. Which has led us to where we are now.

You see, I believe whether they re-instate Josh is irrelevant. Since we've seen time and time again how that ends.

When he was busted last time I put the chances of him being a member of the Browns at 0% ... now, I'll move it up to about 5%

I long ago reached the point where until something changes with his playing status, I'm not worried about him. I'd welcome him back, and would hope he finds success as a Brown, but at the moment? I'm not counting on Gordon, or even thinking about him that much, really.

Two paragraphs from that article cause me alarm;

"Josh feels like he's been let down by the people closest to him,'' said Montgomery. "Where Josh comes from, marijuana is considered like a cigarette. That's just his mentality. Josh has been tossed around. He goes to college and he gets kicked out. Then he goes to the NFL and he gets kicked out. Josh feels like he's been punished repeatedly for something everyone else is doing.''

and;

"Josh tried to beat the system,'' said Montgomery. "He tried to numb his brain from his past, from being disappointed. 'So if you're not going to let me smoke, I'll start drinking.' When Josh first came to me, he was dipping and he was smoking Black and Milds. He needed to do something because they had taken everything else away from him.''

The first paragraph shows that Josh Gordon still refuses to accept responsibility for his actions. It's the league's fault, he's being singled out, the problem isn't him, it's them.

The second paragraph shows that instead of trying to live sober, he's trying to use other substances in place of his drug of choice. He's drinking and dipping (although I'm not sure which meaning of dipping is intended; chewing tobacco, or dipping a cigarette or cigar into a PCP solution.)

These paragraphs indicate to me that he has not faced his demons, but is going through the motions, trying to be reinstated without really changing.

j/c:

I want to clarify some of my earlier remarks on 3 points. I think my words were either misunderstood or twisted. I also want to add that I think people post w/their emotions and do not always do a very good job of researching topics before flying off the handle.

1. Josh Gordon doing other drugs besides marijuana.

--I am pretty sure I began by saying that I believe people are assuming that he only smokes weed. My point is that we do NOT know that is the case.

--I never said I "know" he is doing other drugs. I said I think he is. Here are some reasons why. Josh had codeine in his system. He said it was cough medicine. However, Purple Drank is huge in Texas and he was running w/that crowd. He was arrested for a DUI in NC. The guy who bailed him out [Fats Thomas]was a convicted felon who had been convicted of having drugs w/the intent to sell, having drug paraphernalia, and having possession of a firearm by a felon. This happened while he was suspended for drug use. Gordon lied about why he entered the supplemental draft. He was kicked out of Utah, following his removal from freaking Baylor, of all places. He has posted pics of him w/drug parahernalia, including pill bottles. He was suspended for drinking after his DUI. He has missed scheduled drug tests. Who in the hell would do that if he really wanted to be reinstated and was not using?

Like I said before.......I think it is wrong to assume he only used marijuana. I am not saying he uses other drugs even though it's hard to deny the alcohol thing, but I am saying there is no proof that he only uses marijuana. Given all of what has happened to him......I kinda doubt it.

2. Kap. I thought I was clear. Maybe not. I did not want the Browns to pursue him even before the kneeling during the anthem thing. Can you see that? BEFORE. The reason why is that I think the NFL DCs figured him out due to him being a one-dimensional qb and he has been terrible at the position for a few years now.

The dude lost his freaking job to Blane Gabbert w/one coach and then another named Gabbert the starter next year. The team was so bad, that they eventually switched to Kap, but come on...........Blane Gabbert?

Combine very poor qb play w/a guy who alienates people, including many of his own teammates who called him aloof. Combine it w/a guy accused of gang rape. Combine it w/a guy who defends and promotes Fidel Castro. Combine it w/the fact that polls last year showed that the number one reason more viewers were tuning out of NFL games was because of Kap.

Are those people good people? Are they wise for making such a decision? I say........it doesn't matter. The NFL is a business and teams want to make money. Good TV shows are axed and dumb ones live on. We can make a similar point about all products when it comes to marketing.

The bottom line is why in the hell would a team want to add a [censored]-poor qb when it alienates it's customer base. If you ever owned a business, you would understand. Let's say you own a restaurant. Would you keep a waitress who got orders mixed up, was late to work, and alienated her customers? Or, would you keep her just because she had strong political viewpoints?

3. I can tell that people haven't educated themselves on the Zeke thing, despite all the articles I posted and how many more are out there. I guess it is easier to condemn a man than it is to educate oneself. I get that most people won't read this, but a few points of clarification:

--The NFL did not ban Kap and welcome Zeke like one poster claimed.

--There is no ban on Kap. Teams can sign him if they want to.

--The NFL did suspend Zeke.

--A Federal Judge overturned the suspension.

--The NFL is trying to overturn the Federal Judge's ruling. They want Zeke suspended.

--The lead investigator concluded that the witness was not credible. She was the only NFL person to actually interview the accuser. She deemed the accuser to be non-credible.

--The above report was not allowed into the final hearing on Zeke's suspension.

--The lead investigator was not permitted to attend the proceedings.

--Critical evidence was w/held and/or ignored by the NFL decision makers in this case.

--The accuser admitted to trying to blackmail Zeke so she could get a boob job.

--The accuser admitted to sleeping w/Zeke's teammate.

--Zeke is black. The accuser is white.

There's more. Much more.

And don't take my word for it, but please educate yourselves before you call me out and unfairly assign guilt to a man and then pretend the NFL is allowing a woman-beater to play while keeping a guy who just smokes marijuana out of the league. Educate yourselves before you make such claims.

That's all I ask.

You say this twice, and unless I missed a post somewhere where somebody said those words I am pretty sure we all realize there isn't a "Ban" on Kap.

But, he is being shunned. I mean come on, Vers. You are saying to me a league that regularly calls Charlie Whitehurst up can't find regular work for Kap? I mean, really?

I don't want to fight, PDX.

I hesitated on clarifying my positions on these matters because I did not want another huge argument to break out. I deleted 2 prior posts.

I am not asking you--or anyone--to agree w/me. I am simply stating my opinions. I thought I gave valid reasons why teams aren't signing him, but it's cool if you think I am wrong.

I just don't want this to turn into another personal attack thing on posters instead of discussing the issues.

I also want posters to take the time to do some research and educate themselves if they want to argue passionately about such explosive topics.

I hope that's okay?????????

I'm not looking for a fight either. Life is too short. Just speaking my 2 cents on Kap.

I don't know if he's being shunned, but I'm confident there are nfl teams whose QB situation might get better if they signed him.

Maybe map should talk to his girlfriend about her tweeting habits...

AMEN it works better than oxy, and it's great for nausea as well

No,not this discussions again...

Just let the guy go and move on.

Eo, I'll give you $50M to do something for which you have a genuine talent and love to do. All you have to do is not drink or get high for about 10 years. Can you do that? Forget that it is socially acceptable, that's it's legal in some states, that all your friends and many of your co-workers do it; you stay off drugs and alcohol for 10 years and you walk away with $50M. If you don't stay clean and sober, you get nothing. Can you do it?

Josh Gordon can't. He is an addict. He can play the game, say all the right things, make the appearance of staying the course, but unless he accepts that he is an addict, he will never be able to leave it alone.

I am an addict, in 9 days, if I make it that long, I will celebrate 28 years clean and sober. If I make it those 9 days it will only be because I ACCEPT THAT I AM AN ADDICT! I have known, in those almost 28 years, thousands of other addicts. Those who successfully stay clean and sober accept that they are addicts. Those who don't accept that fact, go back to using.

Reading the article posted above, it is clear to me that after all this time, after all those suspensions, Gordon still hasn't accepted that he is an addict. He blames others, he tries other ways to try to alter his consciousness. He has not accepted that he is an addict. Once he's back, once things look like they're going well, he will use again. He's an addict who has not accepted that he is addicted.

I accepted that fact, of being an addict on January 28th 2001 when God came into my life and I know without God and me accepting where I was I would have returned to my addiction and would not be here today ... Praying for Josh Gordon and all other addicts

jc.

I'm probably the biggest smoker on this board, but come on; everybody knew the damn rules when they signed the contract in the NFL, and even before then.

should weed be legalized? yes. is it stupid that people go to jail for it? yes. does it have real medical benefits? yes. should the nfl change its policy on weed? yes.

but until they do, everybody, including Gordon, was aware of NFL's stance on weed.

Tired of the excuses.

You are 100% correct, and it really is that simple. However, I think that's why people are torn and that there exists any sort of debate on the issue. The main problem is Gordon and him being dumb. But there's an underlying issue of stupid rules.

But it's not stupid. It's an expectation by an employer negotiated through a labor contract. Want to change it? Negotiate for the change.

They have a union, use the thing

The legality of weed has nothing to do with anything.

Agreed. Plenty of pot smokers play long careers. The issue is Gordon has thus far been unable to control his self-destructive tendencies. He's probably left a hundred million dollars on the table. That is the very definition of stupid.