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That's promising. As someone else pointed out though, Kizer seems to want to constantly look for the home run ball, when sometimes he needs to just check it down.
But that's fine. I'm glad we have a QB who not only can make the throw, but isn't scared to make the throw.
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That's promising. As someone else pointed out though, Kizer seems to want to constantly look for the home run ball, when sometimes he needs to just check it down.
But that's fine. I'm glad we have a QB who not only can make the throw, but isn't scared to make the throw. +1 I want him to keep that fire. Push the ball, go for it! This season is about learning how to do it better. We all knew INTs might be a problem for him starting out. Just need to stay the course and let him learn. We need to know if he can adapt. Football, or sports in general, is about adapting to what the other side is trying to do. I heard about how Denver decided to stop EE and let Dak beat them, he couldn't, at least the way the Cowboys were using him that night. So it's now up to Dak and the coaches to get ahead of the book that's now out there for everyone to see. Same with Kizer.
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That's promising. As someone else pointed out though, Kizer seems to want to constantly look for the home run ball, when sometimes he needs to just check it down.
But that's fine. I'm glad we have a QB who not only can make the throw, but isn't scared to make the throw. The check down is usually the 3rd plus read. Kizer just never gets that far. that will come eventually if we can keep him healthy until then.
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I'm not really sure what it means, but I was looking at the other QBs that have the same # of deep attempts (~20). There are only 2 that have more (Brady and Wentz), and there's a steep drop off after a couple attempts lower than Kizer. The others that are up with Kizer have many more total attempts.
The only thing I can think of is that Kizer has to throw the ball further because they're trying to convert 3rd and long more often, whereas a QB like Brady (who has many more total pass attempts) is actually taking shots downfield for a big play because they're ahead of schedule (down/distance).
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j/c:
Towards the end of the game on Sunday, Kizer was just chucking the ball down field praying that someone would catch the ball. Even if the game was out of reach, I would have preferred to see some flow of offense and trying to run something substantive instead of just airing it out there.
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DK is young and he's learning. He has all the physical tools, he's smart and willing to work to become better. He needs to be coached every day to learn faster especially by getting rid of the ball faster by throwing it away if there's nothing or learning to check down. He needs to stay healthy so he can keep playing. I'm sure the coaching staff knows this.
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I do like that he has no fear in throwing it .. medium and long. It definitely needs to be more accurate, but I'd prefer that over Kessler (at least to build off of)
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Did they provide a percentage for how many of those deep balls were completed?
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Did they provide a percentage for how many of those deep balls were completed? No. My guess is not many.
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Did they provide a percentage for how many of those deep balls were completed? No. My guess is not many. product of overthrowing guys..lol, was a 15 yard route and he threw it 25..lol
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Did they provide a percentage for how many of those deep balls were completed? Or even catchable? He has some serious accuracy issues.
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Leading the league in the (highest Percentage) of deep balls thrown.
That's a lot to ask of a rookie QB. Hue may want to rethink the game plan to put his rookie in the best chance to succeed.
Last edited by Milk Man; 09/19/17 09:02 PM. Reason: Correction to statement
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Brady and Wentz have thrown more. He is leading the league in percentage of deep balls thrown.
I don't think Hue should rethink things. Deeper passes are often some of the safest passes a qb can throw. Throwing intermediate outs and in the intermediate middle of the field are the most dangerous throws a qb can make. Btw..........when I say intermediate, I am referring to the 18 to 22 yd passes in the route tree.
Last edited by Versatile Dog; 09/19/17 09:11 PM. Reason: terrible grammar
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Did they provide a percentage for how many of those deep balls were completed? No. My guess is not many. product of overthrowing guys..lol, was a 15 yard route and he threw it 25..lol lmao thats good stuff 
Last edited by tru_dawgs; 09/19/17 09:03 PM.
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Leading the league in the (highest Percentage) of deep balls thrown.
That's a lot to ask of a rookie QB. Hue may want to rethink the game plan to put his rookie in the best chance to succeed.
^This is big problem, IMHO. I understand that Hue doesn't want to dumb down his offense to accommodate a rookie, or to give opposing defenses a simplistic game plan to prepare for, but if Kizer is always worrying about stretching the field, he's missing golden opportunities to gain first downs. I would really like to see Hue set him up early with quick outs, slants and crossing patterns, mixed with a heavy dose of runs. Then, then when he has some rhythm going, and has had success moving the chains, go deep. Otherwise, it just seems like a football version of bashing your head against the wall because A) He's a rookie, and B) He's not all that accurate to begin with. Hello! McFly!
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Hue Jackson was with the Bengals when Andy Dalton was a rookie in his second year and the offense was very simple. It was even very simple when Jackson was the offensive coordinator. My guess is that Jackson is doing something similar now. It would be very weird if he wasn't.
Last edited by cfrs15; 09/20/17 11:59 AM.
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I think he was coaching Oakland in Dalton's first year.
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I think he was coaching Oakland in Dalton's first year. Sorry, that's my bad. Jackson was the Raiders coach in 2011, Dalton's first year.
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Memphis posted this article in the Game Day forum. It is very good w/gifs and breakdowns on Kizer's turnovers. I am surprised no one replied to it on that forum. It's very educational and provides some evidence of what is going on. https://www.dawgsbynature.com/2017/9/19/16335564/film-study-browns-five-turnovers-against-the-ravensA few things I noticed: --The OL is doing a great job of pass blocking. --Kizer's eyes are clearly not going through his progressions. --Kize is holding the ball way too long. --Check out a couple of the throws to the left, like the one he threw wide of Duke. His front foot is opening up too far again........just like it was in college. I remember noting that he loses accuracy when this happens. I was worried about him falling back into bad habits in the heat of the battle. It's something to watch for. --The headache thing. I wonder if he is overly stressed due to how many more responsibilities he has in the NFL? He forgot to call the motion on one play. We have to remember he didn't have a snap count at ND. --His accuracy right now is atrocious. --His reads are taking way too long. Check out the article and tel me what you guys think. Memphis had some good comments on the article in the Game Day forum.
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Leading the league in the (highest Percentage) of deep balls thrown.
That's a lot to ask of a rookie QB. Hue may want to rethink the game plan to put his rookie in the best chance to succeed.
^This is big problem, IMHO. I understand that Hue doesn't want to dumb down his offense to accommodate a rookie, or to give opposing defenses a simplistic game plan to prepare for, but if Kizer is always worrying about stretching the field, he's missing golden opportunities to gain first downs. I would really like to see Hue set him up early with quick outs, slants and crossing patterns, mixed with a heavy dose of runs. Then, then when he has some rhythm going, and has had success moving the chains, go deep. Otherwise, it just seems like a football version of bashing your head against the wall because A) He's a rookie, and B) He's not all that accurate to begin with. Hello! McFly!
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Memphis posted this article in the Game Day forum. It is very good w/gifs and breakdowns on Kizer's turnovers. I am surprised no one replied to it on that forum. It's very educational and provides some evidence of what is going on. https://www.dawgsbynature.com/2017/9/19/16335564/film-study-browns-five-turnovers-against-the-ravensA few things I noticed: --The OL is doing a great job of pass blocking. --Kizer's eyes are clearly not going through his progressions. --Kize is holding the ball way too long. --Check out a couple of the throws to the left, like the one he threw wide of Duke. His front foot is opening up too far again........just like it was in college. I remember noting that he loses accuracy when this happens. I was worried about him falling back into bad habits in the heat of the battle. It's something to watch for. --The headache thing. I wonder if he is overly stressed due to how many more responsibilities he has in the NFL? He forgot to call the motion on one play. We have to remember he didn't have a snap count at ND. --His accuracy right now is atrocious. --His reads are taking way too long. Check out the article and tel me what you guys think. Memphis had some good comments on the article in the Game Day forum. I agree with everything you said above. I will add a few notes: -- Jackson noted that he knew something was wrong with Kizer after the aforementioned pass to Duke Johnson. -- The Ravens defense is really good and that could have added to Kizer looking more flustered than he did in week one. Kizer is [obviously] a rookie. He's going to be terrible for some games. He's also going to look good in some games. He seems like a very level-headed, confident, organized person so I don't think the lows are going to submarine his career like it would do to some.
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I hate to comment on the migraine issue. My wife gets them and man, they last a long, long time. I obviously don't know what it was in his case, but I do wonder if the incredible amount of stress he is under caused the "pounding" head?
I think you are right about being level-headed. He doesn't look nervous and it's been reported that he is a very hard worker, as well as a very intelligent guy.
I do wish we would have given him more time before we named him the starter, but now that he has been named the starter, I think we have to roll w/him.
I hope it all works out.
Well...........I gotta get back to work. Good discussion.
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Hue Jackson was with the Bengals when Andy Dalton was a rookie in his second year and the offense was very simple. It was even very simple when Jackson was the offensive coordinator. My guess is that Jackson is doing something similar now. It would be very weird if he wasn't. Leading the league in deep balls doesn't say simple offense to me. Unless simple means, "Always go deep". And yeah, I do find it a little weird. How many carries has Crow had over the first two games? Is it even 25? Just checked. It's 27.
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I think we may have to start bringing some read option plays into the mix, if only to give him a base and some confidence. He's already out of the 'gun and I may be mistaken but didn't we run some read option when Hogan was called upon last year? We need to get Kizer more comfortable and doing a few things well first?
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How many carries has crow had over the first two games? Is it even 25? Not enough (he's had 27).
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We haven't been far enough behind to justify abandoning the run, IMO. So it seems he's intentionally ignoring the run. Which doesn't make sense with a newbie QB.
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We haven't been far enough behind to justify abandoning the run, IMO. So it seems he's intentionally ignoring the run. Which doesn't make sense with a newbie QB. Especially after Jackson said that he was upset with himself for not running the ball more: Browns head coach Hue Jackson has some regrets from how he ran his offense last season. Specifically, how little he ran the ball.
“I beat myself up about that,” he said last Wednesday following practice. I understand not running the ball because it is not effective, but I don't think we've run the ball enough (specifically in the Baltimore game) to make that determination.
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Problem, our run game has STUNK....suppose to be a strength.
If you're behind the sticks constantly, you got to throw longer....penalties and SACKs a problem too....I hope it was the level of competition and NOT an indicator of how we'll play all season.....GO Browns!!!!
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Problem, our run game has STUNK.... We ran the ball 14 times total (not including QB scrambles) against Baltimore.
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I understand not running the ball because it is not effective, but I don't think we've run the ball enough (specifically in the Baltimore game) to make that determination. There have even been a few instances where we've ripped off a couple decent runs (5-7yds+) and then not run again the rest of the possession. Very bizarre.
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I understand not running the ball because it is not effective, but I don't think we've run the ball enough (specifically in the Baltimore game) to make that determination. There have even been a few instances where we've ripped off a couple decent runs (5-7yds+) and then not run again the rest of the possession. Very bizarre. Hue just hates doing it, yet in the pressers he says he will, and he must if they want to form any rhythm... but still don't dial them in lol.
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The position of quarterback is a continual learning process.
Even for the guys who have been in the league for a long time. Look at Eli.
Kizer has a ton on his plate. Just learning the offense and language. Let alone the defenses he will face every week.
What to track with Kizer is what he learns week to week and how he internalizes it.
Delay of game calls are hard to excuse but even that is part of his learning.
At this point for him post snap the game is a blur. Hard to develop chemistry with his receivers when he doesn't know if his guys will run the route right, catch the ball, or even get open. Coleman goes down. They just signed Coates. Louis and Higgins have barely got their feet wet. Britt has been AOL. I mean what are we talking about here?
The offense is sadly lacking in weapons. This has to be addressed this coming year.
This is just where the Browns are as a team starting a 21 year old rookie.
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If I recall (incorrectly) most of our better runs were up the gut. I don't understand trying to go off tackle out of the shotgun because it feels to me harder to disguise and the back is coming off a standing start in possession instead of already hitting the LOS at pace. I dunno, I know nothing, but running north south out of the 'gun seems logical?
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Hue believes in running the football right up until the point of trailing by more than 3 points. 4 points its abandon the run.
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Memphis posted this article in the Game Day forum. It is very good w/gifs and breakdowns on Kizer's turnovers. I am surprised no one replied to it on that forum. It's very educational and provides some evidence of what is going on. https://www.dawgsbynature.com/2017/9/19/16335564/film-study-browns-five-turnovers-against-the-ravensA few things I noticed: --The OL is doing a great job of pass blocking. --Kizer's eyes are clearly not going through his progressions. --Kize is holding the ball way too long. --Check out a couple of the throws to the left, like the one he threw wide of Duke. His front foot is opening up too far again........just like it was in college. I remember noting that he loses accuracy when this happens. I was worried about him falling back into bad habits in the heat of the battle. It's something to watch for. --The headache thing. I wonder if he is overly stressed due to how many more responsibilities he has in the NFL? He forgot to call the motion on one play. We have to remember he didn't have a snap count at ND. --His accuracy right now is atrocious. --His reads are taking way too long. Check out the article and tel me what you guys think. Memphis had some good comments on the article in the Game Day forum. that one thing really bothers me.. the rest might come with plying and the game slowing down.
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I didn't want to believe it earlier, but I had a feeling that people didn't really want to analyze Kizer's play, but instead just blame Hue for terrible play calling.
I keep asking this and no one answers: How can you tell all of our blocking schemes on TV? How do you see the route trees? How do you know the progressions? How do you know if the defense is not doing everything they can to stop the run and daring us to pass? How do you know that the plays are bad, but the execution is poor.
I'm going to say that you guys don't know any of it. I think I know more about such things than you guys do and I really can't tell. I think you are blaming Hue when the problems are elsewhere.
But, what else is new w/the Browns. Blame the coach. Fire the coach. Hire a new coach. Praise that coach. Bash the old coach. Then............Repeat.
No one is even talking about Kizer's turnovers in what was a very educational article. Ignore that and bash Hue. I call BS!
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The position of quarterback is a continual learning process.
Even for the guys who have been in the league for a long time. Look at Eli.
Kizer has a ton on his plate. Just learning the offense and language. Let alone the defenses he will face every week.
What to track with Kizer is what he learns week to week and how he internalizes it.
Delay of game calls are hard to excuse but even that is part of his learning.
At this point for him post snap the game is a blur. Hard to develop chemistry with his receivers when he doesn't know if his guys will run the route right, catch the ball, or even get open. Coleman goes down. They just signed Coates. Louis and Higgins have barely got their feet wet. Britt has been AOL. I mean what are we talking about here?
The offense is sadly lacking in weapons. This has to be addressed this coming year.
This is just where the Browns are as a team starting a 21 year old rookie.
Hey, an actual post about Kizer. That's amazing. I thought this was a bash Hue's play calling thread. 
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Hue believes in running the football right up until the point of trailing by more than 3 points. 4 points its abandon the run. Other than the times we're in 2nd or 3rd and long due to yet another penalty, I believe Jackson is trying to get that Safety OUT of the BOX. It's not working because Kizer isn't hitting anything consistently enough to get him to drop back. Watch how Running the Ball SHOULD change when he starts hitting on some of the deeper stuff.
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Hue believes in running the football right up until the point of trailing by more than 3 points. 4 points its abandon the run. Other than the times we're in 2nd or 3rd and long due to yet another penalty, I believe Jackson is trying to get that Safety OUT of the BOX. It's not working because Kizer isn't hitting anything consistently enough to get him to drop back. Watch how Running the Ball SHOULD change when he starts hitting on some of the deeper stuff. When Crow is on, he's on... buut when he's off, he's off, and when he's off it looks the same every time. There's been several holes he's missed so far this season that if he displayed enough awareness he could have hit for a good gain. It may very well be the case, but I'm sorry, I'm just not ready to buy that we're not running because the defenses won't let us. Maybe one of the stat guys out there has info on this, but it seems to me that Crow's biggest runs come after the defense is choking up on the line and he hits the correct hole.
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