DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Repeal and Replace IV

Obamacare repeal bill will head to vote in Senate next week, GOP leader says

-Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell says a vote on the latest effort to repeal and replace major parts of Obamacare will be voted by the end of next week.
-Earlier, McConnell met with co-sponsor Lindsay Graham, and after Graham met separately with Alaska's two senators, whose support would be crucial for the bill.
-Republicans have struggled to get 50 out of their 52 senators to vote for the repeal bills to ensure passage.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/20/obamacar...eader-says.html

The GOP is trying yet again to pass another Healthcareless act.

Are they purposely going out of there way to take L's?

This bill was slapped together, and stands a severely low chance of passing. They are going out of their way to not get reelected, but watch conservatives vote for them in 2018 anyway.

No, no, we been working on this for 8 years and finally got it just right!

We ready for Prime Time now!

Hmm...how long did it take them to craft this new bill they're pushing?

Something tells me it's a lot less than 8 years.

This one only took us a week I think!
Its beautiful!
Best Healthcare ever!

Are you alright?

Sure is. As long as you never get ill.

I seen part of it...

A military grade first aid kit for every family.
A book on Surgery.
A set of Ginsu Knives
and on disc of Alexandro Querevalú at his best!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93wGaGFUnTs&list=RD93wGaGFUnTs

This one will be a scam/sham, just like the last one, and just like O's before.

If no one got ill, what would you do for a living?

The GOP is not too bright I think.

I dont like it.

And neither does my guy Rand Paul.

So you can count at least 1 R vote out.

You said that a couple of times now and we keep going back to the Drawing board to make you happy!

The GOP's big mistake isn't in the content, it's in the marketing. If they were smart they could make the claim it's for the "Greater Good" and they'll get away with anything. They may even see an unexpected groundswell of support from liberals as they tend to be suckers for anything that helps the "Greater Good". Get them to parrot that and you can get away with anything: outright lies as to what that system will provide, oppression, acts of violence, murder, etc. You just have to convince people to accept the stated outcome without them utilizing any semblance of critical thinking to arrive at the same conclusion for themselves.

They can't market what they can't seem to pass themselves.

I think they will sneak this through unfortunately. I hope not, this bill sounds terrible.

There Is No Right To Healthcare
Max Borders
by Max Borders

Healthcare is important. People get sick and injured. As compassionate human beings, we should do what we can, within reason, to see that people are treated—especially when they don’t have the means to get treatment themselves. We can build and support charity hospitals. We can volunteer for free clinics. We can take sensible policy measures that will reduce the costs of and increase access to medical goods and services.

But we cannot pretend that healthcare is a right.

This sort of verbiage is just that—verbiage, until it requires enforcement. And if you have been tempted to think of basic needs as being rights, remember this: Rights confer duties upon others. And that has tremendous implications for any healthcare system.

Think about a right of free speech. That right confers a duty onto others not to interfere with or mute your expression, as long as you’re not harming or threatening anyone. But when it comes to certain other purported rights involving things that must be produced by others, like education or healthcare, that means others have a duty to produce that good or service. And once we slide from the apparently benevolent talk of people having rights to the reality that other people will then have enforced duties to produce those rights, we also slide from individual compassion to State compulsion. In other words, any such right necessarily conflicts with others’ rights not to be treated as means to some end.

In the process of outsourcing our sense of compassion to a central producer of healthcare goods and services, we cede our healthcare choices—and charitable instincts—to a central authority. How else is the government going to ensure that healthcare is produced, by right, for everyone?

This central authority, with its attendant healthcare bureaucracy, is not very good at figuring out who needs what and how much they need of it. Socialized, or “single payer,” healthcare systems that are meant to allocate healthcare goods and services have very different incentives than systems in which people exchange goods and services freely.

In the Soviet Union, planners had no price system to help them determine how many shoes were needed in Minsk or boots were needed in Moscow. Supply and demand were guesswork and “targets”—with all the attendant problems of political allocation, buck passing, and bread lines. The Soviet economy, marked by shortages and gluts, could not effectively be planned. The same can be said about the modern single payer healthcare system.

Consider our neighbors in Canada. In the Fraser Institute’s annual report, “Waiting Your Turn: Wait Times for Health Care in Canada,” the Canadian think tank says the median wait time in 2013 hit 18.2 weeks, three days longer than in 2012. The average wait time for orthopedic surgery, in particular, reached 39.6 weeks for treatment, while patients waited an average 17.4 weeks for an appointment with a neurosurgeon. During this time, people were suffering. Some even died. And yet all of this is happening in a country where healthcare is considered a right that confers duties on taxpayers. Can the suffering that flows from rationing be considered compassionate? If treating healthcare as a right has these sorts of perverse consequences, shouldn’t that lead us to question all such rights talk?

Put another way: Let’s grant for a moment that healthcare is a right, or, at least, let’s assume everyone wants healthcare to be something that our fellow citizens have access to. If we all agreed to that, what if we determined that a free market in medical care allowed more people to gain greater access to healthcare goods and services in a timely manner? Would a “right” to healthcare then confer duties upon policymakers to introduce measures like the following that would make the healthcare market freer?

Let people choose less expensive health insurance policies and policy options that fit their circumstances and budgets—across state lines and free of some or all of the state mandates that price low-income people out of the marketplace.
Encourage policies that restore a functioning price system to healthcare so that people can make wiser purchasing decisions, all of which will help rein in spiraling costs.
Allow individuals, not just employers, to get a tax deduction when they buy health insurance, which would make insurance more personal and portable.
Dismantle any and all healthcare schemes (like Medicare) that provide subsidies for the rich and tax the poor and middle class in the process.
Remove barriers to competition such as professional licensing, certificates of need, and other regulations that hike costs and limit access.
Encourage people to use financial healthcare products like health savings accounts, which give people incentives to be wise healthcare consumers, to save resources for future healthcare needs, and to invest in preventative measures?
Combined, the measures listed above would revolutionize the healthcare system in terms of price, quality, innovation, and access by the least advantaged.

Talk of “rights” is just a rhetorical game progressives play to get the policies they want (usually a single payer system). But talk of “rights” does nothing for the goal of actually figuring out how to get people reasonable access to the healthcare they need. To do that, we have to deal directly with the problems of affordability (as in the United States) or with the perverse consequences of rationing (as in Canada). The disastrous rollout of Obamacare just might stimulate a serious, widespread discussion of these options for the first time.

Yes, healthcare is something we’ll all need at one time or another. But it is not a right. If we really care about people getting healthcare, let’s focus on how to reform the system for good—so that free people can generate abundance in healthcare. If we can do it for mobile devices, we can do it for medicine.

link

Yes, completely agree but Obama let the cat of the bag and now the Country has had a taste and wants government healthcare. You can't get that cat back into the bag.

In the Declaration of Independence its says we have a right to "Life, Liberty, and the persuit of Happiness"

Seems Healthcare would come under "Life"

If you're against people living, it's not a right.

If you think people dying in the streets is just fine, it's not a right.

If you don't have a compassionate bone in your body, you don't consider it a right.

If the rest of the entire globe is wrong and only the Republican party is correct, it's not a right.

Otherwise, it's a right.

Seems 10 million bucks would come under Happiness.

Nobody is stopping you from earning 10 million bucks.

And who is it that is stopping you from buying your own Healthcare plan?

If they dont sell ins in your county, you cant buy a plan can you?
If there is no Obamacare, then ins companies wont sell ins to pre existing conditions people, will they?
If they charge more than you can afford, then how you obtain ins?
If Drs and Hospitals dont accept your ins then how will you obtain care?

Oh I could go on and on and on.

And why is it they don't sell Insurance in your county?
They used to sell insurance in every county and even had multiple insurers.

You added to your post.

"Used to" are the key words here. If they determine your county is not profitable, then they wont sell there.

Everything went to hell with Obamacare.

Back in the day you could get insurance for yourself and you had many insurers competing for your business.

So all the Republicans have to do is say buy your own insurance and pass a law that insurers can not charge more for preexisting conditions. Or they could have pools for preexisting conditions that the insurers would split up among themselves.

That would be a simple plan for the Republicans to come up with now wouldn't it?

That wont work. Insurance companies own the republicans not named Rand Paul, and they wont approve.

And you cant force them to sell ins in any given location.

And pools dont work, there was that before and it was a fail. Ga didnt even have pools when it was a thing.

Eve, we are supposed to die in 40's world. I have heart disease and COPD, try to buy health insurance with that! Health Care premiums for me are nuts even under the ACA.

And forget about life insurance, can't get that period.

But as I listen to your concerns, I can see how a few simple changes and laws could fix your whole problem. That would be a simple fix for Republicans but for some reason everyone now wants healthcare like it is welfare. That makes it very complicated.

Trolling again? Please let the grownups talk.

Yes. Its because the swamp is not drained. If you are a pet of big business then you will not pass laws that force them to be ethical and have an impact on the bottom line.

I am not expecting the Repubs to solve this all at once, because the entire system is corrupt from the top to the bottom. From Big Pharma and Ins Companies, all the way down to the Hospitals and Drs. The whole thing need a revamp. But that will never happen until the swamp is drained and there are politicians with balls to tackle it. It wont be the GOP. They are getting voted out.

If only we were like those Socialized Medicine Nations who's entire Military budget goes into making white surrender flags while a compassionate America pays enough to defend ourselves and them.

Perhaps if we only defended ourselves and cut them off we would have all the money we need for free healthcare.

My wife has a service related disability, she get's 100% coverage via the VA. I served too but my health issues are not service related, the VA offers discounted services to me but we have to carry insurance to cover the majority of cost.

We had to go with insurance thru her work that covers us both because that was less than me buying insurance as self employed for myself...

When she turns 62, or is rated 100% disabled by the VA (currently 80%) then both of us will be covered 100%. The VA has been great for us. Wait times are in line with my regular doctor wait times, if she doesn't want to go there they will pay for trips to the local hospital and doctors. We both think the care there is top notch and personable.

That I hear depends on where you live and how good your VA is.

There are some areas with horror stories over VA but I know Trump has been working on fixing that.

Ours has been good for years. But even they have some people that can't be satisfied, like the drug addicted vets that come in for a new months refills two weeks early. But one thing I do like about the 24 hour urgent care is that it is never full of people acting like fools. Disturbances are rare there. Rooms are usually solo when hospitalized too.

further confirmation that this guy never had a healthcare bill

TRUMP: I assumed when I won, I would 'sit down at my desk and there would be a healthcare bill'

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/trump-assumed-won-sit-down-215116691.html

President Donald Trump on Wednesday praised the latest attempt from Senate Republicans to repeal and replace the Affordable Care Act, yet chided his party for a delayed and tedious process that has plagued his administration in its early months.

Trump commended the Graham-Cassidy-Heller-Johnson (GCHJ) legislation, saying it offered the best chance to repeal the "disastrous" law known as Obamacare.

"I think there is tremendous support for it," Trump said at the United Nations. "I actually think it is much better than the previous shot, which was very sadly let down. Again, you've been hearing about repeal and replace for seven years. They have a chance."

The statement followed tweets from the president Wednesday morning calling the new plan "GREAT!" Trump also blasted Sen. Rand Paul for his opposition to the bill.

Later Wednesday, Trump complained about the process by which Republicans have attempted to repeal and replace the law. He noted that the GOP promised to repeal the law for seven years — yet for the first eight months of the Trump administration have been unable to do so.

"I thought that when I won I would go to the Oval Office, sit down at my desk, and there would be a healthcare bill on my desk — to be honest," Trump said. "It hasn't worked out that way, and I think a lot of Republicans are embarrassed by it."

On Wednesday evening, Trump lauded the pending bill again on Twitter: "I would not sign Graham-Cassidy if it did not include coverage of pre-existing conditions. It does! A great Bill. Repeal & Replace."

Experts say the latest Republican legislation would increase state flexibility for healthcare — but at the expense of billions of dollars in funding, weaker protections for people with preexisting conditions, and a significantly larger number of uninsured Americans.

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell said Wednesday that he is planning to bring the bill to the floor next week.

Yes, Ryan had told Trump they had Repeal and Replace all ready to go. They should do it on his first day. Trump said great then, lets get it done first. Then the Republicans couldn't pass it and it drags on.

If Trump had known this, he would have gone with tax cuts and tax reform first like he originally wanted to.

He trusted the swamp one time and got slapped. Never again.

New study shows the Republican healthcare bill would leave up to 18 million more without insurance by 2019

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/study-shows-republican-healthcare-bill-183436377.html

and 32 million off by 2026.

wow.

I don't know where everybody gets their numbers but if Trump can get our economy humming again like he wants, those numbers will be Fake News as everyone is working and making good money and businesses grow and money from overseas comes pouring back in.