DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Kizer

Exactly, eo! We must be patient; cohesiveness will develop as the season progresses barring setback due to injuries...

Goff played well last night. Remember how bad he looked last year? That's why we have to be patient with our Browns and DK. It well take time and it won't be pretty but we need to be patient and let things come together.

I agree. And the same can be said with every young player in the NFL.

The time definitely helped as does the wr upgrade ... no doubt ... there HUGE ...

AND so is the HC/OC change ... that maybe bigger ... last year the D's knew what play they were running when they came to the line ... it was documented by opponents as well as several rams O players ... they basically said it was a grammar school offense that was very predictable ..

they also upgraded the OL ...

Goff looks like a new man .. he also played Indi and SF's D's ... very interested to watch him ...

i'm going to have fun watching Goff, Wents, Kizer, Watson this year ... and Mitch more than likely at some point this year .. i'm going to enjoy watching those guys and will be very interested to see who develops into what ...

*LOL* ... its not often those two words are interchangeable ...

I don't disagree with anything u say tabber ... nothing .. I just don't think Kizer is ready for this ... its to much ... he's a rookie that wasn't close to ready ... he needed to sit and u know it ... hue decided to play him ... and that's OK .. the lack of talent at the QB position made rushing the rookie a viable option ..... so what now ..

Hue's decided to do what your scenario states and give him everything at once ... well in nfl football readiness Hue has put Kizer in the last calcuus class you take to get your chemical engineering degree when Kizer should be taking Algebra ...

Lets hope it works .. we'll see and know in a few years ...

it should get better short term ... I expect over the next 3 to 4 weeks he'll make mistakes but he will show those throws that only a few can make ... his play and the entire O's play will be sporadic but much better than last week ..

I don't have an issue with Kizer starting. . . and continuing to start if he struggles.

My issue is with regard to what he is asked to do.... last year Hue had a 3rd round, weak armed QB and managed the play calling to make him look serviceable and put up good numbers. . . . What Hue has done with Kizer so far is exactly like your analogy of giving him calculus when he needs to be learning algebra. I know the play calling has been discussed somewhat - but if Kizer aint getting it ... then dumb it down. Give the guy a chance to succeed.... don't ask him to throw it so much and so deep against a defense like Baltimore.... And if Kizer isn't listening to the coaching staff when they tell him to stop looking for the big play on every drop back... they need to find a way to make him listen. That is not going to help him develop imo. That's asking for him to get hurt and asking for the interceptions we saw vs Baltimore. . . . We finally saw some effective screens in preseason ... have we called one since? Flaco was killing us - absolutely killing us - with the roll out .... where did Kizer once do that and use the ability we have seen to throw on the run??? And I said it in the pregame forum ... we need to accept that it's a battle for field position and sometimes we might be 3 and out ... but you can't abandon the run.

Hoping for a confidence boosting performance vs the Colts ... But after a better than expected 16-13 performance vs the Cardinals - I am almost preparing myself for a board meltdown and a loss.

The Cardinals are also terrible.

Agreed. A friend of mine is a Cards fan and they think they are soft with Palmer and Fitz on way out. All we can do is lay it out there and see where the chips fall. If we play like we did against the Steelers we'll beat them. No doubt in my mind.

I am not writing Kizer off. I just think Darnold will be much better.

If the Browns could run the ball effectively, Kizer would probably be looking much better. Since they cannot run the ball, or Hue just is lying about wanting to run it, Kizer's inexperience is showing and costing us games (I am not saying Hogan or Kessler would have led us to wins). I think our "D" is very, very good. If we do not progress offensively to the point of winning at least 6 games, I do think we should look at Darnold. He seems pro ready right now, he would not need nearly as much development as Kizer. Ship Kizer for a middle round draft pick, and who knows maybe even a second rounder.

I miss Metcalf too. And Greg Pruitt.

Plus our WR's are absolutely no help to Kizer. My point, and I do not disagree with you, is that in my humble opinion, Darnold is a special prospect and we cannot pass on him. I like Kizer, a lot actually, but I do think Darnold would provide an upgrade that we could ill afford to pass on at the QB position. If we drafted him and S. Barkley out of Penn State, then I think a lot of our offensive woes would be solved. And since we have multiple picks, getting a true #1 WR and OL depth along with Darnold and Barkley would be my draft strategy for 2018.

Deep passes are not all that risky. They are one of the safest passes a qb can throw.

Blaming Hue for our problems is wrong.

Teams are bringing an extra guy in the box. I get that some of you won't believe me, but is Bitonio a liar? They know that Crow is our best offensive player and are gearing to stop him.

Hue is calling the right plays. But Kizer and the inept receiving corps are not getting the job done.

I do not think it has anything to do w/it being too complicated. It's about a lack of execution.

https://www.dawgsbynature.com/2017/9/20/...inst-the-ravens

If you watch these 10 runs at least 7 of the runs are vs. an 8 man front from the Ravens. 8 man fronts are designed to stop the runs. Usually, a safety running free at the RB. That player was Tony Jefferson more often than not. I know the Browns need to establish a running game but it is tough vs. 8 man fronts even with a good Oline.

As Vers says it is up to Kiser and the receivers to keep that extra safety out of the box.

Kizer needs to sit an learn the off. first.

over 3 seconds to throw the ball??? while the great and damn good ones are around 1.3 seconds...wish I could find stats on Hogan's time. looked but couldn't find it.

Over 3 seconds to throw the ball means

1). he is taking too long to read the field.

2). holding the ball too long (doesn't really know the offense or can't read the defense_.

3). 3 seconds means the O-line is doing a damn good job of pass protecting.

4). Kizer throws a laser ball...that goes in random places. (huge arm talent, just no accuracy).

but then again Branden Weeden had huge arm talent too...just saying

Kizer has a long, long way to go.

I am not sure if anyone values my opinion or not, but I have more hope for Kizer than I ever did for Weeden.

Weeden had a million dollar arm and a 10 cent head. We are still waiting to find out about Kizer"s head.

Besides, as a rookie, wasn't Weeden ten years older then Kizer is currently? (I know that is a slight exaggeration)

Good points. However, a lot of our fans will tell you it's all about play calling.

It's EXECUTION of said play calling.

Man some fans irritate the hell out of me.

People don't THINK.

We are potentially sitting on a GOLD MINE with Jackson and Williams.

Think about this. Our OC is our HC. He won't be going anywhere unless he's forced out. Therefore we will not lose our OC to a HC position elsewhere. Same with Williams. He's not going anywhere either. I don't think he's even interested in a HC position.

That can pay HUGE dividends in the future. SAME Offense. SAME Defense for multiple years.

That cohesion and continuity is what it will take to make us finally become a winning team. And the fans seem to know that all during the off season. Then we play two games and in their frustration, they forget all about it.

we need a derrick henry or leonard fournette next draft. that would help Kizer out tremendously.

I could not frickin' believe that we had "fire the coach" and "start Hogan" threads after the second game. I knew they would come, but not after 2 games.

I have no problem with deep passes. Unless that is the "only" throw that is ever made because Kizer can't execute the short or medium throw and is holding on to the ball too long.

As for Hue calling the right plays ... I think that's inaccurate or something that can't be determined. We have not executed - the QB, the WR's, the TE's or the RB's .... so hard/impossible to say that they have been the right play call. And that's the issue for me.

It's really simple - I blame Hue as the OC for not being able to draw up plays and call them in game situation that the team can execute. Simple as that. Period. Yes Kizer is a rookie and inaccurate. Sure the WR's seem to be struggling some. . . . so it's the Offensive Coordinator's job to create and call plays that the people he has available can execute. . . . and he's not doing that. I am not blaming Hue coz I think he's a jerk or I want him fired. . . . I am saying we need a OC who is dedicate 100% to drawing up plays and gameplans without any other responsibilities. If Hue is the HC and the OC .... how much time is he spending being one or the other. If he is not spending 100% of his time doing one or the other .... does anyone think that has no impact?

Simply - on a young, learning, building team. Having a guy do two roles and split time as HC and OC means he isn't being as effective as he could be with all energies and time spent doing one role. I think that shows on game days.

Yes. Fans have to be patient with this team. People can think and post what they want - I really don't care - but knee-jerk reactions aren't admirable.

j/c

Listening to Donovan and Dieken in the pre-game on the Browns app. Dieken made two points that I thought were interesting:

He basically is surprised that Hue is not regularly including a checkdown option to Kizer. He stated that a checkdown would go a long way to helping Kizer - the young rookie - get the ball out.

He also stated that part of the reason why the opposing TE's are killing us is due to the depth of the FS.

FWIW.

i know people trip about the safety playing way too deep, but to be fair, as of right now we're tied for 7th fewest plays of 20+ yards or more on defense.

we've allowed 4.

Ignore everything I just said. We've already allowed 4 plays over 20 in the first half so far.

Poor Kizer with all this lack of talent. He has some learning to do.

I didn't want Kizer, still don't. I see no future with a QB that has zero touch on his passes, holds the ball too long because he doesn't see the field well, and just flat out wretched ball placement.

Will some of that be fixed over time? Sure. Most of it won't though. He shouldn't be starting and we all know that.

Kizer....he's it for sure. The QB guru says so.

And Peppers is a bad safety

0 touch on his passes? At times. Other times, perfect passes.

Holds the ball too long? Some times, yes, absolutely.

Wretched ball placement? At times, yes.


Rookie. Those things can and should be improved. But, it takes............get this.............some time.

That's one thing, time, that qb's in Cleveland don't get from fans.

I think Brock challenged him on how many INTs can be thrown.