DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum It should be ...Kevin Hogan, the starter...

I agree 100%. Two things said about is why IMO Hogan gives us the best chance to win if we're in the market to win now. The timing thing, as Vers said, was massive.

He entered the game and instantly was throwing lasers and moving the offense, then was pulled for a kid that was either inaurracute as I've seen, or two-three seconds still thinking (or both.)

The difference between the two's play is clear.

The coach makes that call. They say he's a QB guru.

You know what the difference is? One has some experience and the other has very little. The game is probably slower for KH and not DK. Makes a big difference.

How about the sack leader sit more until he cleans that up by getting rid of the ball? Just such a glaring deficiency that cripples us. Find a way for Hogan to run a few series more for a few games. Hue's assurances don't match the losses on the field.

I don't think Hogan played many regular season games. Preseason is so vanilla that it's hard to count.

well he sure called it right with rg3... qb guru...

If thats the case, then why do some fans/coaches prefer rookie QBs to sit on the bench before being thrown to the wolves? They must be learning something.

Worked for Aaron Rodgers, IMO he's the best in the league and started learning by sitting on the bench. Hard to argue the case about playing and learning by fire, though.

If we want to win, IMO, Hogan gives us the best chance. He'll play a lesser defense though, so let's see what Kizer can do and progress. I mean, I'm rooting for him, I really am despite what I'm saying.

I guess it's a matter of opinion; do we sit the rookie QB and let him learn or do we let him play and learn that way. It's a ? that has to be answered by coaches and FO people. Can the QB take the physical pounding? How about the psychological part of it, can he deal with the having to learn so much right away and some of the failures that are sure to happen? It's a tough decision with pros and cons. I said it before, I like DK a lot he has all the tools and I'm really pulling for him. He's got the talent and seems like a good kid too. I wish him all the best.

Be that as it may, it's not a good enough reason to bail on Kizer. If he's to be our starter moving forward, he needs time on the field and game experience, and the confidence of the coach and the team. Pulling him in favor of the backup simply because the Hogan had success on a drive and a half is ludicrous. I would take a losing season fraught with mistakes in order to see Kizer gain experience over a potential .500 season led by a backup any day.

JMHO

I see the same things as every other fan, and Hogan looks better. But Hue may see in practice every day things that show him Kizer is way better in terms of future upside, and he may think that makes it worth putting him out there to learn.
What is kind of sad is how Cody has been relegated to third string. I thought he was pretty gutsy as a rookie. Maybe short on talent, but he took a beating and was better than people give him credit for. I hope he has a long career with the clipboard and avoids CTE.

j/c

I love how Monday morning QB's think they know so much more about our roster than the people who get paid millions to coach them. Who are there for every classroom and practice these guys work out in.

I think a lot of our posters should be filling out resumes'.

This board is filled with out of work GMs and world class talent evaluators.

Then again most people on this board saw this thread coming weeks ago lol

It is an annual tradition that our back-up QB is the most popular guy on the team. Well, until he's actually named the starter. lol

It is the most consistent thing around the Browns lol

Yes he has..

In 2 games, Kizer is completing 57% of his passes and has 1 TD and 4 INTs..

In his first 2 games as a starter, Eli completed 40% of his passes and had 1 TD and 4 INTs..

So there is a comparison to be made..


I don't think it's that obvious either. I think we should continue to roll with Kizer for the foreseeable future. I think they both have good skills and they both have flaws.. the one that progresses the fastest mentally to make the reads is going to be the longer term winner of the job.

Kevin Hogan, the backup QB nobody expected, remains just one play (or migraine) away

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2017/09/kevin_hogan_the_backup_qb_nobo.html


CLEVELAND, Ohio - Browns starting quarterback DeShone Kizer stands in the middle of the locker room and begins his weekly media session, surrounded by reporters and television cameras.

"What would a win mean for you and this team?"

"How important is it to get the running game going?"

"What's keeping the offense from clicking?"

Meanwhile, Kevin Hogan leans back in his chair and props up his feet in his locker. He takes out his phone and starts scrolling, seemingly content in his quiet corner of the Browns locker room.

Hogan has as many touchdown passes as Kizer does this season, but nobody is going to talk to him about that on this day. You can forget about a quarterback controversy. Hogan's role on the team is clear.

"He's got a little bit more experience. Obviously he's a really bright kid. He really understands throwing in rhythm," Joe Thomas said of Hogan after last Sunday's 24-10 loss to the Ravens. "He does a really good job. He's a great guy to have as a backup.''

If I told you during training camp that Thomas would give that quote two weeks into the season, you're not thinking Hogan is the subject. But here he is, the backup nobody saw coming.

Last season Hogan spent five weeks on the Browns' practice squad. He was inactive for six games, including the final four. When he did play he was mostly a novelty quarterback, surprising teams (OK, really just the Bengals) with his running ability.


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Then this offseason, he outlasted Robert Griffin III and Josh McCown.

"Stuff happens in this league. You know, people come and go and changes are made for whatever reason," Hogan said when asked if he thought he'd be back this season. "I was just focusing on what I can do and try not to let that stuff bother me."

During the preseason quarterback competition, Hue Jackson sometimes named Hogan as one of the competitors. Sometimes he didn't. And when he didn't, nobody faulted him for it.

The quarterback competition seemed to be centered around Cody Kessler, a third-round draft pick who started eight games last season, Brock Osweiler, a player that cost the team $16 million, and Kizer, potentially the prince that was promised.

Hogan? He started the second half of the fourth preseason game. Not exactly the time slot of those destined for the 53-man roster.

"I just went out and worked hard each day. Made sure I was getting better, going through the reads and taking the coaching," Hogan said. "I didn't want to give any excuse for me to mess up or show that I wasn't able to lead the offense. I wanted to make sure my teammates and coaches trusted me."

That trust will be important because history tells us we haven't seen the last of Hogan this season.

The Browns have had at last three quarterbacks start games in each of the last four seasons. They've had a quarterback start all 16 games just once since 1999 (Tim Couch, 2001). Just two games into this season, Kizer has already been sacked nine times, hit nearly 20 times and knocked out of a game by a migraine.

After last season, Hogan understands how quickly he could go from relaxing in the locker room as the unassuming backup -- and occasionally sparking an avalanche of Hulk Hogan GIFs on Twitter -- to being the focus of the media. And in case he forgets, his locker in Berea is right next to Kessler's. That alone should provide a daily reminder of how fast opportunities can come and go.

"It's just all about being able to adapt and adjust to handle every situation that's thrown at you," said Hogan. "If something happens in a game I have to be ready so I'm staying warm on the sideline and making sure I'm preparing as if I'm starting the game. So I'm just going to keep up with that routine."

As the preseason began, it wasn't a stretch to think Hogan was headed back to the practice squad. He didn't play in the first preseason game, and got only seven snaps in the second.

But as others faltered, Hogan's performance over the final two games - 20-of-30 for 263 yards, three touchdowns, 0 interceptions - started to look pretty good. Never mind that it all came after halftime.


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"(Hogan) can move around and complete balls and make plays with the ball," Jackson said after announcing Hogan would be the backup in Week 1. "The one thing for me as a head coach, I think you reward people who play really, really well and do the things that you need done, not that I am saying that Cody doesn't. Kevin did and he showed that so I am giving him the first crack at it."

Hogan said he got about a half-dozen practice throws before he had to take the field against the Ravens. "I didn't really know what was going on at the time," he said. "I was just told I was going in next series."

His opening drive was almost as magical as his debut against Cincinnati last season. Hogan's second pass went to Seth DeValve for 34 yards. His next pass almost resulted in an acrobatic catch by Corey Coleman at the Ravens 6. He ran five yards for a first down. It ended with his first NFL touchdown pass, to David Njoku.

"He was ready to go,'' Jackson said. "He made some plays with his arm. He made some plays with his legs. That's what I expect from that man."

Hogan has something about him. Tough dude. Makes things happen. Great leader.

What a fairy tale story he would be...

It won't be in Cleveland unless Kizer gets hurt. Kizer is going to start the whole season. If he ends up being good [this year], we have our QB. If he plays badly and doesn't improve, we draft a QB with our top pick. Neither scenario allows for Hogan to play.

(I like Hogan's story a lot.)

There is one big "if" in your comment.

The utter intolerance to allow this franchise to develop ANY QB makes the fans and organization the laughing stock of the NFL. The media starts the ball rolling with feel good fluff pieces about the backups and tears apart the starter then we get what we have right now. It is amazing to watch objectively while cringing when ya get what ya want only to crap all over the next shiney toy by the next season til a new backup shows his face. Welcome to the perpetuation of losing and the down trodden poor us mentality.

Need I remind any of you calling for Hogan that he looked as bad or worse with that throw before halftime. That was ugly and a very horrible decision. In response to someone saying backups never look good in games but he did, well.....we always make other teams backups look like pro bowlers it is what we have done for years now.

I have no illusions on where this team is and how many games were realistically within our grasp to win. Kizer is the Browns starting QB and Hue already stated he will ride him all season long so why even get all worked up on something you know wasn't going to happen?

Cleveland, the only place where backups are more popular than ANY starter we have ever had since we have come back. Any QB that has had success gets torn apart for being a crap QB and kicked to the curb then we suffer a few more years and yet most here want others to see them as football knowledgeable yet here we are again ready to start all over before game 3. Impressive, impressive indeed.

"The one thing for me as a head coach, I think you reward people who play really, really well and do the things that you need done,..."

unless this happens...

We have the Colts, Jets, and bengals coming up.

We should be 3-2...if we start 0-5 Hogan I do believe will be coming out.

I believe Hogan is the better QB now and better QB in the future.

so believing that, why not put Hogan in the game now as he imo has outplayed Kizer by a margin.

The problem with Hogan starting is that you would have to take Politics and ego out of equation .

Based on two games? Brilliant.

J/c ...

Kizer stunk against the rats ... no doubt ... he was really bad ... no doubt ....

Hogan came in and led us down the field for the td ... it was a thing of buety ...got me pumped like I haven't been in years with this team ....

Then did u guys watch the next 3 series? ... its like ya'all turned your TV sets off ... he STUNK for those last 3 series ... he got a fg out of them cause Duke made an incredible catch ... and it didn't appear thats who it was even intended for .... thats how bad that pass was ...

Did hogan release the ball quicker .... ABSOLUTELY ....

Was hogan more accurate than DK ... ABSOLUTELY ... BUT its not like hogan was accurate ... thats a reflection of DK being so innacurate, not hogan being even remotely close to being accurate ...

Did Hogan make quicker decisions ... ABSOLUTELY ....

A 2nd year guy should have a quicker release and make quicker decisions than a rookie ... the accuracy .... they both have issues ...

I was impressed with Hogan's new mechanics ... he looked like a qb ... im not against seeing more of him ... but lets not act like he played good much less above average ... lets not forget he also had the worst PASS of the day ....

DK is a rookie thats not even close to being ready .... last week he played against one of the best if not the best D in football ... he played like a not ready to play rookie ... and actually worse .... his fumble was just bad football ... the pick in the end zone was just an innacurate pass ... although if he recognized it sooner and anticipated the throw and threw it sooner it would have been a td .... hmmm ... guess that one was a rookie mistake .... *L* ... thats one of the skills thats separates the men from the boys ... a skill many never get ....

Anyhow ... if u want to say that hogan played better than dk ... be my guest ... but get out of here with the hogan played a good game bs ... he had one good series and 3 pretty awful ones including the worst pass of the game and it will be in the running for worst pass of the season ....

Hue made his decision ... i hope if dk don't play better the next few weeks against inferior D's he does the right thing and gives Hogan a chance ....

I do believe dk will play better ... he will make some of those throws others just can't make .... it will be a roller coaster but thats way better than last weeks contonious downward ride ....

I don't agree that Hogan is better than Kizer - not yet anyway - however, Hogan was a 3.5 year starter at a football program equal-to-or-better than Kizer's and improved each year without a stinker year in the mix.

In the NFL, Hogan has progressed from 4th-string-PS-guy to next-man-up-guy meaning he has developed and/or continues to develop.

It's not absurd to believe that Hogan gives us a better chance to win today than does Kizer.

A better football program? ... u could make that argument if you want to argue consistency ... I'd say Stanford has been more consistent under Shaw than nd has under kelly ... but thats debatable ....

Kelly's also gotten our asses kicked in the NC game and were a game away in Kizer's first year ... Stanfords never been ... so in that regard we've been the better program ...

This year ... we'll see ... i think Stanfords better but it should be a good game ...

No I said in preseason that Kizer had no business starting. I haven't changed my mind and Kizer has only shown why he shouldn't be starting and not why he should.

Let me amend that for you.

Sashi made Hue's decision.

I missed the link to that.

I do remember Greg Williams saying that he decides who starts on defense and he wouldn't take the job if it was any other way. I don't think it's any different for Hue as that would be one heck of a double standard.

I think Hue just thought he'd have Kizer farther along by now than Kizer is.

That being said, a QB change is the wrong choice right now. Hogan might win an extra game or two, but we'll still be drafting a QB next year. You might as well give Kizer enough rope to prove that he isn't the right QB.

This seems like a stretch given how emphatic Jackson has been about Kizer.

Yeah, another Sunday, more INTS and just "what the 'F' was his thinking" moments and etc.


He's losing us games and not improving IMO.

Point(s) made bro. I believe we're already in the "throw him in the fire and hope he improves/assess for next draft's top needs" but I wouldn't mind seeing on the bench for a game or two and let him digest his mistakes.

I can't see the WR play, but maybe they're open. I do see he's a lock on the #1 option, I mean it's the only thing he seems to stare at.

Based on nothing concrete but the few games I have watched. He seems overwhelmed in the pocket, first of all (all is a big number of items, too!). The double-clutching, the ball up then brought down, and The Stare. making any progressions now at all? he looks willing to wait for his last check down choice. And he seems to be picking that one much of the time,
way too often by my lights. I can't connect the dots I am seeing every week, and Hue is helping to hurt us IMO. Kizer is setting the bar lower and lower.

First we spout off about the run and abandon it. Our situation gets worse with picks and turnovers, and is compounded by stupid penalties. So we have sold out to the pass, which Kizer can't handle well yet, and abandon the run. The routes seem to avoid the middle, or they are for a few yards when we are down two or three scores. Runs go up the middle for little yards.

If Kizer is this bloody awful at basic stuff, Hue should take some things away. We are seeing him lock on first receiver or shortest. then hold it too long for quite awhile. Take away the checkdown; force him to read elsewhere, but run or throw it away. Might swell run more; the passing fury isn't getting us anything but beat. I am frustrated with this season oozing away. We still need a win; I still do not see us improving and overcoming much. I am rooting for Britt and Kizer and Jamar Taylor to improve.

.

Never expected much from the Offense this season .. Believe the FO and Hue have painted them selves into a corner over starting Kiser .. I think that Hogan WILL get a chance to play this year and that is when things will get interesting .. How many plays will Duke and my man Leslie get ??