DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum It should be ...Kevin Hogan, the starter...

Yeah, our D giving up 31 points to a team that scored 13 and 9 points in the first two weeks and our secondary looking asleep at the wheel had nothing to do with it. We put up 28 points.

For real. Why isn't Jamar Taylor being horrible when covering T.Y. Hilton getting more play? Or us not getting any pressure despite blitzing? Or letting Jacoby Brissett gash us with easy passes?

I think some fans have decided they have their target to focus on. Once that train leaves the station, it's hard to stop.

Agreed. Kizer was horrible for the first couple series, but once he settled in he was fine (normal rookie fine, not normal starting NFL QB fine).

The plan is to start Kizer the entire season so we can see if he is good/can develop. Deviating from that plan after three games is the most Browns thing possible.

I see it, but it's hard for me to fault Taylor too much when he is being left on his own vs Brown, Maclin and Hilton.

Most defenses would be doubling those guys, but we are playing Taylor like he is a shutdown corner.

I'm still trying to figure out the method to all of this madness.

The two red zone INT's are crushing. They were both God Awful attempts.

I am willing to give the first one a pass, based on him being a rookie.
But... To do it again one week later without showing very much improvement in between disappoints me.

I feel this team has the potential to win some games, by no means more than 6, but 5-6 wins is a step in the right direction. Handing the reigns to a rookie without any threat of consequence for bad play is troubling to say the least.

I think we have seen enough from Kizer to admit he is not ready. That does not mean he should be cut and never get an opportunity. But without seeing any progress throughout the first 3 weeks, give him some time off. Let Hogan start 2-3 games. See what he can do.

I find it frustrating that winning is not a priority. I don't expect to win much, but I do not feel Hue is not putting us in the best position to win games.

I don't care if a QB controversy arises, and until we have a proven QB that can consistently put up W's, then we will always have controversy.

I don't know that Hogan can put up W's. but after seeing Kiser turn the ball over at the rate he has, he needs to be replaced because he is not ready.

Yeah, the O sucks so much it put 28 points on the board and we still didn't win.

The D gave up 31 points to an Indy O that hadn't scored over 13 points in its first two games.

Yeah, Id blame Kizer.

Are you saying that you are pleased with the QB play of Kiser?

Some of you keep comparing our defense to the first two indy played. Those first games that indy played their QB was still learning the playbook and building some chemistry with the WR after having just been traded before the season started.

We don't have any real corners and only 1 decent safety who is a rookie. We have major issues with our LBs too. Without Garrett on the D-line creating extreme pressure our CB's are being exposed for what they are.

Don't get me wrong our defense is way better than last year but it still has a long way to go.

The reason we are losing games is because our starting QB is a turnover machine. It's killing us.

and yet we haven't scored more than 18 points until this game...brilliant

Kindred, the decent safety, is not a rookie. The rookie is really, really bad playing safety.

And IMHO, its really clear we lost the game because of the D, this time. This one and the Pitt one I may add.

The inability to adjust in critical moments, also is killing us.

Both on this game, and on the last game, before the half, the HC should have called a time-out to calm things and prevent the collapse of the team.

And change playcalling, adjust. Against BAl he should have taken the resultt to the half, and not to try to get something, not with the state of the team at that time.

Against Indy, he should have taken out Peppers and adjust the D.

The defense gave up 3 points in the second half...thats adjustment..I fully expect there to be growing pains on defense, But the turnovers on offense and horrible execution is what is killing us. Sure they got shredded first half, so yeah their gameplan to start the game was flawed, but they made adjustments in the second half despite being in a bad spot with the turnovers on offense

I think the word pleased should be put into context here.

He's a second round pick that's 21 years old playing his third NFL game. At that juncture of a kids career there's really nothing to be pleased or displeased about.

You either see certain tangibles that you believe can be built on or you don't. So you either feel there is hope or you don't. He has a lot of work to do no doubt. But he does have the poise and arm to give me hope.

If you are asking if I'm pleased? Give me until the end of next year until the kid has the time to progress and I'll let you know.

When your O scores 28 points and your D gives up 31 to a back up QB, people need to quit whining about the QB.

And the Colts hadn't scored more than 13 points until this game.

Up until this game the Colts did not have Brisset at QB. What they did before this game means nothing. On other hand, the Browns have had the same QB for all three games, (how's that for continuity?), , and did appear to improve in their scoring, (I know, smoke and mirrors, but for anyone who didn't see the game they're thinking, "Say, the Browns are coming along fine" LOL So we got that going for us.

We put up 28 points and lost. At some point people need to quit pointing the finger at the O. In real time, if you put up 28 points and lose, somebody needs to start looking at the defense.

I saw our secondary. We're not coming along fine.

Hawks threw up 27 points and lost.

Texans threw up 33 points and lost.

Lions threw up 26 points and lost.

Browns threw up 28 points and lost.

Niners threw up 39 points and lost.

last I checked this was a passing league not a defensive league.

we need to better on both sides of the ball. not just def.

The offense put up 28, but were down by 21 at half. I strongly believe the Colts took their foot off the gas both on offense and defense.

My point is that Kizer is not ready and the turnovers are BAD!
I feel he has shown he is not ready and that at some point he needs to get some plays/ games off. Maybe he lights up the Bengals this week and a lot of you can give me "I told you so."

I don't see this happening but by no means is it impossible. The talent is there, I truly believe that. But, he is 21. He has mechanical flaws and his accuracy at times is atrocious.

I feel going into next year he will be much improved, but the question is "have you been pleased with his play up to this point?"
Has he shown signs?? yes. flashes in between bad.

I don't know many people on this site that are not optimistic about Kizer moving forward. But to watch 12 more games of 3+ turnover per game football can not be acceptable.

My problem is Hue has put him in a position where there seems to be no consequences for bad play.

My point of all this is that we can get a good idea of how good he is with 8-10 games. allowing him to play 16 games (if he can stay upright)no matter how much he struggles is not acceptable. Especially coming off a 1-15 season. I accept and expect growing pains across the board, but at some point accountability needs to be expected.

This is what I think as well. Growing pains are one thing, futility is another, and all youre doing is pissing off the rest of the team because there isn't any accountability.. You can't turn it over at the rate kizer is doing it and call it growing pains, because its not...its because he's an inaccurate QB with horrible play recognition trying to do too much because his OC is an idiot. So yeah, we don't just have a QB and accountability issue from the HC, we have an idiot as an OC that isn't giving the kid any chance to gain confidence

Saw the game, been following the Texans because of Deshaun, and believe me Texans D is not that powerful this year...

J.J. isn't playing that good, I actually believe he's dragging the D...

He was so beyond dominant but seems to be another guy out there now-a-days.

We obviously have different opinions about what expectations should be from a 21 year old QB in his third start. Problem being, after Hogan had his first drive, he looked no better than Kizer.

If we actually had a better alternative you may have a point. But we don't.

Do you mean putting up 10 points in 4-5 drives is not better.
Including another drive that was ruined by bad clock management by the coaching staff?

My expectations of Kizer have nothing to do with his age, and if they were influenced by his age that would only strengthen my argument.

My point is Hogan has shown he should get an opportunity if Kizer continues to turn the ball over like he has.

I understand the coach has made his call, but hindsight is 20/20. don't be too proud to make adjustments. There is a lot off football left, I just do not understand the need for an extremely young QB to get a free pass no matter how many mistakes he makes.

He played well against the Patriots. He had a bunch of injuries, it might take him a while to round back into shape.

No doubt, and I believe he will bounce back when the time comes. I love his one commercial (not to go way off topic) but the one where he chases that guy with the coffee "you wanna take a nap?!?!" haha gets me every time.

He had one good drive. Kizer just put up 28 points.

And how many points were from turnovers?

So it's not whether our D could stop them, it's when they couldn't stop them?

No, it's not what I'm saying...you can't look at a scoreboard and just say that O scored X so we should have won.

Watch this...
3 and Out taking 24 seconds off the clock with 4 mins left in the 1st
Result: Colts - Touchdown

We march back and tie it up.
Defense can't hold AGAIN and give up another TD.

3 and Out taking 1:07 off the clock
Result: Colts - Touchdown

First INT - D does well holding Colts to 5 plays and only 9 yards
Second INT - Colts get the game winning field goal

I am not saying our D played great, not at all. But I'm not saying either that the 28 points (at least 14 of them came in junk time ~halfway through the 4th when they had a 17 point lead.

Do you know what the stats are when you are -2 turnover ratio? Can't have more than a 30% chance to win a game.

We have the highest negative turnover ratio this year - -5 - we are tied with 0-3 Cinci and after us bottom dwellers, the Texans are at -4 and 1-2 as a record.

Our D actually dealt with the turnovers well. The entire 2nd quarter, looks like they fell asleep.

Our O has some glimpses of being good but we need less turnovers and can't just look at 28 offensive points and think that should have been enough to win that game because it wasn't due to more than JUST the D's effort.

If we had run the ball for the first 35 plays we would have won.

This is a very biased account of what happened...

You just have to look at the highlights to see the D meltdown (and I saw the hole game)

Where do you tell how the QB was beating the D, Peppers getting burn, TY Hilton destroying us...

Total D meltdown.. Peppers and Collins were being destroyed, just like in the Pit game, after that the game was over, but O somehow, again, got us in the game.

I thought Collins was out with a concussion.

He was

rumor is he will be again too

Is Hogan starting?

I hope Hogan does start. But I know he won't, but he should

Disagree...until Kizer shows he can't be a starter for us. We aren't losing games completely on the shoulders of Kizer.

Hogan is going to look good going in as a back-up role as we'll actually have him throw. It's much easier to look good in an emergency than it is long-term.

Kizer has to flop before Hogan should see the field. I see enough from him that shows he certainly has an NFL arm. He's erratic. Looks like he's holding the ball a BIT less than he did Week 1. He's a rookie so many of those are expected and three games isn't enough to answer that question.

Anyone who wants Hogan to start now is missing the point. We need to know if Kizer is our long-term guy going into the draft where we have a shot at the #1 pick which will be a top-flight QB this coming year. So starting Kizer is more about next year than this year.

Hogan is a gritty QB. Hard for me to believe that if he was head and shoulders better in camp that Hue wouldn't have started him. Once he left the genie out of the bottle by letting Kizer start, we have to explore that route to our fullest to make a solid decision for next year.