I never thought of that. White people from Africa are African Americans. Wow.
It is getting hard to know who to hate anymore.
well you're gonna hate jerry jones now. the whole team, including him, locked arms and took a knee during the anthem.
so much for his tough talk on standing for the anthem.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
So I'm trying to figure out why there would be any preference. A gesture is a gesture. I'm not certain why either should be found acceptable or unacceptable, if they both express the same sentiments.
This is why I've taken this line of questioning. the parameters of acceptance seem totally arbitrary. Ambiguous, as well... and subject to the lines that each individual draws for him or herself.
Which really has been my point all along: there IS no "acceptable" way to do this in some peoples' opinions, and the rest have a sliding scale of what they're willing to tolerate, as well. So then, it becomes a classic case of 'choose one's own poison,' because ANYTHING one does is gonna pssssst someone off [shrugs].
At this point, I should outline my POV on this subject, since I haven't really weighed in with opinion proper:
I'd be a stander. Prob not a singer, because I've never been a fan of that ode to war. (Always thought 'America the Beautiful' would make a far superior anthem, in both sentiment and quality of composition). I would not however, hold it against team mates who chose a knee, locked arms... or similar expressions. I've always been like this: a live/let live kinda guy. Hand on heart? Almost always. There have been a few times when I haven't felt particularly grateful- usually due to recent events- but those moments pass, and I'm back to normal.
(Most of the time, I'm playing the daggone thing, so it's kind of a moot point, you know? )
My personal line is drawn at vulgarity, obscenity, personal ugliness (a nazi salute, a flipped bird, grabbed crotch, etc). But that stuff offends me in general, not just in a narrow political application.
As long as the expression is quiet, passive and non-confrontational, I'm OK with it. These sorts of things don't get under my skin.
As we both know, this is not a new phenomenon. I remember talking with My Pops during the 68 Olympics in Mexico City, when this was seen:
I was 12, and it was one of the first adult talks I had with him. I think he'd been waiting for me to show signs of awareness, because we ended up talking all evening about sports, politics, High Art, race, and the intersections that such events represented in society.
(Our family get-togethers were always the scenes of lively topical debate. Kids were encouraged to engage as soon as they were able to hold forth cogent arguments. Adults would force kids to support their opinions with data. Bring game, or sit on the sidelines.)
Anyway, he managed to steer the conversation in such a way as to NOT tell me what to think, but HOW to think my way through it. First of many like that.
I'm OK with what they've done, be it take a knee or lock arms. And I'd be OK with the 'prayer circle' at game's end that you suggested. What I think is great about this is that it's being discussed... even if tangible progress has yet to be clocked.
funny how Trump will blast nfl players but won't speak on what's happening in puerto rico.
does he not realize they are american citizens?
oh, it's because they aren't white.
Are white people born in Africa and moved here considered "AFRICAN AMERICANS" ?
yes.
White Puerto Ricans are Puerto Ricans whose ancestry is of predominant European or other white descent, most notably from Spain (especially the Canary Islands).
As of the 2010 US census, people who self-identified as white constituted the majority in Puerto Rico, making up 75.8% of the population. People who identified themselves as being of mixed race origin, predominantly of West African and European ancestry, constitute an additional 11.1% of the population.[2][1]
Lesser influences came from France, the United Kingdom, Italy, Portugal, Germany, Ireland, Malta and the Netherlands.[3][4]
Puerto ricans are a mixer of native american, spanish, and african.
The Indian, Spanish and African races came together on the island of Puerto Rico, contributing their blood and traditions to the formation of the Puerto Rican culture. The original inhabitants of Puerto Rico at the time of the Spanish conquest were the Taino and Carib Indian-tribes.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
The National Anthem of the United States of America
-as heard by the 3rd trombone chair
"O say can you boom crash, by the dawn's early boom crash, What so proudly we boom crash at the twilight's last gleaming, Whose broad stripes and bright boom crash through the perilous boom crash, O'er the ramparts we boom crash, were so gallantly streaming? And the rockets' red boom crash, the bombs bursting in boom crash, Gave proof through the boom crash that our flag was still boom crash; O crashcrashcrashcrashcrashcrashcrashcrashcrashboom-craaaash O'er the boom crash of the boom crash- -and the boom crash of the craaaaaaaaaaAAAAASH!!!!
So I'm trying to figure out why there would be any preference. A gesture is a gesture. I'm not certain why either should be found acceptable or unacceptable, if they both express the same sentiments.
Try yelling Black Lives Matter at someone's Funeral, you will see that it expresses the same sentiment as in a march but I bet it don't fly.
This is why I've taken this line of questioning. the parameters of acceptance seem totally arbitrary. Ambiguous, as well... and subject to the lines that each individual draws for him or herself.
It is not about the wishes of the individual, it is about the family of the deceased.
Which really has been my point all along: there IS no "acceptable" way to do this in some peoples' opinions, and the rest have a sliding scale of what they're willing to tolerate, as well. So then, it becomes a classic case of 'choose one's own poison,' because ANYTHING one does is gonna pssssst someone off [shrugs].
You fail to mention respect for others here.
At this point, I should outline my POV on this subject, since I haven't really weighed in with opinion proper:
I'd be a stander. Prob not a singer, because I've never been a fan of that ode to war. (Always thought 'America the Beautiful' would make a far superior anthem, in both sentiment and quality of composition). I would not however, hold it against team mates who chose a knee, locked arms... or similar expressions. I've always been like this: a live/let live kinda guy. Hand on heart? Almost always. There have been a few times when I haven't felt particularly grateful- usually due to recent events- but those moments pass, and I'm back to normal.
Respect for the Flag and the Anthem do not require you to "Feel" happy or grateful. You should respect America at all times.
(Most of the time, I'm playing the daggone thing, so it's kind of a moot point, you know? )
My personal line is drawn at vulgarity, obscenity, personal ugliness (a nazi salute, a flipped bird, grabbed crotch, etc). But that stuff offends me in general, not just in a narrow political application.
As long as the expression is quiet, passive and non-confrontational, I'm OK with it. These sorts of things don't get under my skin.
As we both know, this is not a new phenomenon. I remember talking with My Pops during the 68 Olympics in Mexico City, when this was seen:
I was 12, and it was one of the first adult talks I had with him. I think he'd been waiting for me to show signs of awareness, because we ended up talking all evening about sports, politics, High Art, race, and the intersections that such events represented in society.
(Our family get-togethers were always the scenes of lively topical debate. Kids were encouraged to engage as soon as they were able to hold forth cogent arguments. Adults would force kids to support their opinions with data. Bring game, or sit on the sidelines.)
Anyway, he managed to steer the conversation in such a way as to NOT tell me what to think, but HOW to think my way through it. First of many like that.
I'm OK with what they've done, be it take a knee or lock arms. And I'd be OK with the 'prayer circle' at game's end that you suggested. What I think is great about this is that it's being discussed... even if tangible progress has yet to be clocked.
Yes, this will take time, we are still in the emotional phase.
Respect for the Flag and the Anthem do not require you to "Feel" happy or grateful. You should respect America at all times.
There are times when in all good conscience, I simply can't. Now, that doesn't automatically infer the opposite- I know how you can be, 40. We've talked about it before. There are times when My Country under-performs and fall short of its values and standards. On those occasions, I'm not exactly feeling respectful or reverent, nor should I be expected to. In that regard, country is like family- I'm disappointed because I expected better.
One example: March, 2003. "Shock & Awe." I disagreed with that action, and lost some respect for my country's leadership. Another example: There are many other examples of America not expecting/demanding of herself what was expected of me. Hard to muster respect in those cases.
Times when I did have the deepest most profound respect: Post-911. For weeks and months afterward, America and her citizens showed to best effect... and I'd never been more proud.
Sadly, I think it will probably take another catastrophic even to bring us past this place where we are now. It will be something truly awful, devastating and unimaginable. As a society, we've been stirring up some really bad JuJu from the bottom of the cauldron for quite some time. That kind of bad karma always near the surface, fouling the air attracts the ugly in life.
I wanna be on my private island when it drops next time. Been thinking about retirement a little more lately. Might just have to pull the trigger.
This was the hardest thing for me to adjust to when I retired...
In America, you are what you do.
I was the businessman. I was the Fire Chief I had many good people under me and counting on me.
Suddenly I am just me. I am no longer approached to help someone advance. I am no longer kicking in doors, saving lives. My replacements have taken over those duties. People look to them like they once looked to me.
This took some adjusting to but I have adjusted and life is great. Do as I please whenever I please and I please a lot.
When a person works hard to achieve a certain station/status, it's hard to see oneself as anything but. This has been a privilege of a life for me; one that I could not have imagined when I was a wee sprat seeing that instrument for the first time.
I have options that don't involve flat-out retirement, and I need to start considering them now. I could renegotiate my contract for fewer services per year, and do some freelancing. I could take a year's sabbatical, and self-produce an indy recording project. Join a funk/r&b band (and no- that's not a joke).
I don't think I'm quite ready to be Joe Q. Anonymous just yet, but I really should be seriously planning a smart, reasonable exit strategy. Wanna enjoy before AND after you know?
the solution is for us to shut up and be good colored boys who listens to massah.
You ain't a slave, you ain't ever been a slave. We've said ad nauseam why they shouldn't be doing what they're doing when they're doing it, but you don't wanna hear that.
I would at least expect you, who's probably held a guy in his arms while waiting for a medivac hoping he doesn't bleed out from some lost arm or leg, wouldn't doubt you've seen people who CAN'T SEE ANYMORE due to their time in combat to see both sides of the issue.
And I'm sure you've seen worse than that...
WE DON'T NEED A QB BEFORE WE GET A LINE THAT CAN PROTECT HIM my two cents...
I just want to give a shout out to the Dallas Cowboys for their demonstration of respect to the flag and anthem. I have absolutely no problem with them taking a knee in the center of the field. When the flag was being rolled out and the anthem was sang, they were STANDING on the sidelines honoring it.
Thank you Dallas for understanding there is a better way.
There NEVER seems to be a good time and place for protest.
Every single time it's either "oh that's not the right way" or "wrong place to do it" or "it's not the right time".
Always an excuse when it comes to issues that deal with civil rights. Always something more important.
protrstnisnt supoose to please you. It's suppose to make you uncomfortable. It's suppose to make you come out your shell and actually discuss the issues in some way.
And it worked.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
protrstnisnt supoose to please you. It's suppose to make you uncomfortable. It's suppose to make you come out your shell and actually discuss the issues in some way.
And it worked.
Yup, it worked, and it's working.
I'm seeing a boat load of people go the exact opposite way this peaceful protest intended.
Yup, even Mexicans, whites, blacks...........protesting this "protest".
A couple years ago, we had a thread whose subject was "Reparations."
As I'm sure we can all imagine, the thread went in the directions that most of these threads wander... with the overwhelming sentiment: "why should others get money from me and mine, when I never owned a single individual in my life?"
My response was of this nature:
"For me, reparations isn't a check for cash. It's not 40 acres and a mule. I don't operate on that level. You want to know what true reparations is? True reparations is going to school board meetings, and voicing support to help out the inner city schools, even if your kid goes to a 'better' school in your district. Reparations is calling out a store clerk who walks right past me to serve you first- even though I was in line earlier. Reparations is standing up to your bigoted uncle when he makes comments that make the rest of the family feel uncomfortable.
Every time something of character is done in opposition to our 400 years of karmic debt, a repair gets made. And people of good intent like me will acknowledge it every single time we see it. Every. Single. Time. Because it's never guaranteed, it's always viewed as special.
Here is just such a gesture, as far as I'm concerned. I hope it lands on resistant ears that may have been deaf to my attempts:
sure it is. it's absolutely a form of leadership. Nike is not just a major sponsor here in America but around the world.
they *typically* don't take strong stances in one direction, or in direct support of something. typically business try to remain as neutral as possible. it says something that they were willing to completely take a side on this issue, knowing that the same people who said they weren't gonna watch the nfl anymore also will probably *claim* they will stop buying merchandise. they knew they would likely take a hit in profit, and still issued the statement.
You realize Nike is a business, right? The NFL owners are business owners right?
What race typically buys more Nike product? Do you not think that the NFL had lawyers and mathematicians in a room figuring out what would be less cost effective, backing the players or losing about 10% of their viewership? You put too much trust in companies. Green is the only color they care about.
) 
