DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Kizer

I feel at this point in the team's and Kizer's development, experience is more valuable than wins.

Who's to say who's right? Hue. So on we go.

Precisely. Hogan or Kessler may be a better fit right now to win right now... but we aren't playing for this season.

Although, I wouldn't be surprised if we bench Kizer at some point during a game even though we will go back to him the next game. A good benching sometimes helps...

Kizer's not ready to learn the speed of the game ... he's not there yet .... he's OVERWHELMED right now ... hes got so much to work on mentally and mechanically he shouldn't be doing it in a game ... u can see hes overwhelmed .... but that ship sailed so lets focus on this one ....

The positive was i don't remember any delay of game penalties and we seemed to get to the line quicker and i don't believe we were ever rushed ....

Am i wrong? .. i sure hope not ... cause imo the only other positive was

His leadership .... going out and being the first to congratulate everyone after extra points ....

There's enough negative and I'll get to some later, for now though I'd like to know of any other positives any of you have seen ....

He hasn't quit at any point during the game. He hasn't let INT's keep him from going back out and competing on the next series (short memory). He's starting to use his legs more. He's gotten rid of the ball when pressured recently, taking fewer sacks. He's put up a lot of yards, and would have more if his receivers could catch. He works hard and prepares like a pro.

Like those 6-8 games the Rams had to evaluate Goff last year?

The reason people were wanting to sit him is because he had practice stuff he had to work on BEFORE he even steps out onto the field. Before he could get acclimated to the speed of the NFL game, he had to refine his own game/mechanics. Taking a snap from under center is something you work on in practice, not a regular season game. Same with throwing mechanics, understanding the playbook, getting in sync with receivers.

He could've/should've been doing this within the safety of practice, not while defenses want to (and did, in the case of the Steelers) take his head off (not the optimal learning environment).

But, we are where we are. You can't unring this bell. We made the decision that we're going to roll with him, so we gotta do that. We take our lumps with Kizer because that's what we signed up for starting a super-young rookie.

Give me two full seasons before I know if a QB is good (and probably more).

Kizer needed experience under center making his drops, experience reading defenses and you don't get that by watching someone else doing it. He is getting it. He is improving. I look at how slow he was in week 1 and 2 and then week 3 we start to see some real flashes of quality QBing. He is starting to understand smart bailing. You see him going through his progressions just a little bit quicker.

Heading into week 4 I am very happy with his progress. Those around him however simply have to do a better job as well.

I know many are down on Kizer and Down on Hue and down on the FO, our record sucks but we are on the right path.

I believe Kizer can make every NFL throw physically.

I also believe he can make them all mentally, he's just not consistent at it.

That is something that will take time.

It would also help, that when he does make an accurate (beautiful) pass, that the WR catches it...

You can absolutely work on being under center and making your drops in practice. He can also work on getting in sync with receivers as well as his throwing mechanics in practice. The other stuff you mentioned, you're right... he can only get good at that by playing.

But if you're hitching your wagon to him, why not have him iron out the stuff he can iron out before putting him in a game?

Because of a draft class right now with 5 or 6 projected first round QBs and a Free agent QB class that has Cousins and Jimmy G likely available.

you let this kid play through the rookie pains to see what you have by week 12-16. It is a very young team and you want all of these guys to grow together.

He doesn't have a lot of game experience and he is getting exactly what he needs. The only reason people aren't kissing his ass after this game is because of penalties and drops.

Looking over Stafford and Bledsoe, previous very young QBs to start so early, the stat lines all look very similar to Kizer right now. Do not bench him. Work him thorough and see it all the way to the end.

Talks to Hue on a regular basis. They have so much to share. Just wish it would be more mistakes get fixed. Pick one or two a game. Fewer sacks, more throws, or run. Basic stuff not happening. Really locking on first option or shortest option. That is part Hue.

I'm in agreement with you. I think I've actually said myself that crying over starting him is pointless now. I need to practice what I preach.

excellent thought the way we contend next year is for kizer to be part of the solution

We need to know this year if Kizer is our QB. He has to play. If we feel he is the man, then we do not draft Sam Darnold. If we feel he is not, then we draft the QB #1 in 2018.

...or you can work on making your drops in games, like Britt does.

Precious!
Comes with age, experience, and indifference. Play like you mean it.

Play Leslie.

Jarred Goff ...

Darnold may not declare and I dont really see a big difference between Darnold and Kizer in talent.

Agreed. There's no reason to complain about it now. We named him the starter and now we have to roll with him. Hopefully he'll show he can be our franchise QB and we can use all those picks we have in "18 to fill the holes we have. We have more than a few no doubt.

This is just my opinion.

But I believe Kizer has "already shown" he can be "our guy" going forward.

We just have to stick with him, and the coaching staff.

Let him "take his lumps" this year. And have an entire offseason and TC to improve. While we potentially greatly improve the talent around him.

Maybe his ceiling isn't a "Top 5" QB in the league. But I believe you can win and win consistently with a "Top 10-15" QB.

He has the talent. He just needs time.

How nice would it be to go through an entire offseason KNOWING who the QB is ganna be next year?

One thing I've learned in basketball: if you're not a good shooter, it's VERY difficult (if not impossible) to become a good one. You might improve slightly, but you'll never be a trusted shooter.

In football, I'm afraid accuracy is a similar aspect ... and Kizer has always had an accuracy issue.

I agree 100% with your comments. . . And while something might change in the remaining 13 games (provided he isn't injured) at this point I think you build your plan around him as your starter.

"The only reason people aren't kissing his ass after this game is because of penalties and drops."

I strongly believe the reason fans have an issue with him learning on the job is the number of turnovers that he is responsible for.
7 INT'S & 2 fumbles lost. That is a large number. 2 INT'S inside the red zone. That is the problem.

How does it not relate to experience, though? Doesn't that come with timing with the WRs and such?

I think it takes more than 2 seasons to know if the QB is Elite

Bad Qb's I think its takes just a few games..

Problem is the distinction between an Average/Good Qb and a Good/Elite QB...

At this stage I will contend with a Good Qb, the moment the QB is the reason the O is dragging, then I will change my mind.

I'll take an average QB and be beyond satisfied at this stage. So many faces, so many pieces of trash. Just someone that can operate the offense and worthy of a little faith and trust be granted.

If Kizer doesn't elevate his play by week 6 or 8, or thereabouts, you'd have to consider Hogan.
Just saying,.

What would elevating his game mean to you? In my opinion, Kizer has not done anything egregious enough to warrent being benched.

JMO.

If Kizer doesn't play better by week six or right, then we are probably o-6 or 0-8. If that's the case we should just keep playing him because we are terrible anyway.

(What happens week seven if Kizer is bad?)

I agree. If DK throws 3 INTS per game through the bye week, a change MUST be CONSIDERED.

If receivers ARE getting open and he's missing them wildly or simply NOT seeing them, a change must be considered.

There is a lot of football - and hopefully a lot of growth - between now and the bye week.

I don't feel any better or any worse about DK since the season started. I knew he'd have struggles and I knew he'd look fairly good at times. We need to keep rolling him out there. If he's not progressing by the bye week - by whatever measure you use for progress - he probably needs to sit and watch for awhile.

He's elevated his game every week. You may not like his rate of progression, but there is progression. No reason to bail on him. Not now, not in four weeks, not this season. JMHO

Agreed and a good point. DK has gotten better each week albeit slowly. If our WR's caught the ball DK's stats would look better. He's making mistakes and that's to be expected but the people around him need to step it up and play better.

You're right, this absolutely is a major issue impeding his progress and performance.

I guess I muist be missing something. In game one he had a qb rating of 85....Not bad, not bad at all. The last two games he was 27 and 50. That's bad, but those were road game.

I am not promoting we bench him at this point, but I am not seeing this progression in his play that you see. This week we have Cincy at home. Maybe we get on track.

What I do know is that if we keep losing, something is going to have to change. Our record under Hue is now at 1-18. We have 2 homegames in a row starting this week. What if we come out of those games and he is 1-20? Just keep doing what we are doing? At minimum we would need to give Hogan a shot.

What if we only win 2 games this year, none, 3? Is that good?

Last week was the most critical game of the season. We blew that. Cincy is on the rebound. We will probably screw that up. That leaves the Jets at home. If we lose that, stick a fork in it.

Most critical game of the season? Really? How so? And what does this have to do with Kizer's development? Yes, he threw some INTs, but 8 DROPS!? I'm sure his QBR would have been much different had those balls been caught.

If you're expecting this team to win now, you can stick a fork in that. Regardless, he is showing incremental improvement week to week.

JMHO

I think we are basically in agreement Cal. I did not opine on his rate of progression thus far - primarily because it's too early to really tell IMO. I don't like it (his progression) or dislike it...he's about where I figured he'd be at the moment. See what I bolded above.

All I'm saying is if he doesn't continue to progress and DOES continue to throw INTS and hold the ball too long up to the bye week, it would be prudent to look at whether he should sit for awhile. I'm certainly hoping he progresses - whatever that may mean - and becomes what we all want him to be.