DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2017 NFL Season Looking Back: Browns 28 Colts 31 Post Game Thoughts!

Maybe you should look closer at which side of the OL the play is called to. Both have had better success running to the left. The evidence of that is on film.

I'm not looking at results, i am looking at effort.

Dustin Fox: I’m still trying to figure out what Jamar Taylor (21)was doing here.

[quote=Jester]Crow does not run hard. When you see him then see the effort duke puts in, it's night and day. Crow needs to stop thinking about the money he wants and go out and earn it Crow is just an average RB IMO. I'd play Duke and Dayes more. I think we'd get more production. IMO, If Crow leaves after this season we could replace him with a 3rd or 4th rd pick in next years draft.

That is just sad.

3. Taylor explained: Cornerback Jamar Taylor has received some heat from fans on social media for appearing to give up on the pass play to T.Y. Hilton that resulted in a 61-yard touchdown. After the game, Taylor owned up to not covering Hilton well during the day and took blame for the loss, but he snapped at a reporter for questioning his effort. Jackson was asked for his interpretation of Taylor’s play. “I think Jamar is a captain on our team for a reason,” he said. “I know Jamar extremely well. I don’t think he was trying to give up or not play hard. For a second there, maybe somebody felt the guy was about to be down or be out of bounds. I think there are some things he’d do differently. To say he wasn’t trying as hard as he could, I didn’t feel that or see that.”

http://www.espn.com/blog/cleveland/post/...ayed-head-coach

We were out-talented the first two weeks. I can live with that. We don' have the personnel to compete week to week with the teams that are going to be in the playoffs.

Yesterday we were just outplayed. Outcoached. Whatever you want to call it. Games like that on a consistent basis get you fired in the NFL. I'm on board with Hue Jackson, but that kind of stuff can't happen in year two. It just can't.

The dumb penalties, the lack of adjustments (until it was too late). More scrambling around pre-snap. Guys loafing on both sides of the ball (but hey Kenny Britt made a catch!)

They made a hell of an effort to get back in the game, but constantly kept killing themselves. How many times are we going to get flagged for offensive PI?

There were some bogus calls, and some really really bad non calls (Indy blatantly holding on huge plays in the first half) but more times than not we just don't challenge teams enough.

I was impressed with Kizer's confidence. I just wish we would see the decisiveness that we saw in the second half yesterday from the onset. He's learning. He gets a pass. I just want him to survive the whole year. I hope he doesn't learn the hard way when he's on IR and we are signing guys off the street to play quarterback, all while looking at a 2 or 3 win season.

I think this team waits around too much. They should be hungry from the start of the game. I don't see the sense of urgency. We haven't seen that at all outside of a few moments in the Hue Jackson era.

I don't really know what else to say. There isn't much to say about this group other than it seems like we are playing with 2 fewer guys on every play.

There are some things we have to live with. First, Kizer is a rookie so he will make rookie mistakes. He will make wrong reads, hold the ball too long, throw behind WRs and throw picks.

But for this team to have picked 50 WRs and none of them can catch is frustrating to watch! Also, if we had a good o-line, we would be running more, which takes pressure off of Kizer. But the penalties cannot be tolerated any more. And EVERY WR should be staying late at practice this week.

Hey Buddy.

Why, if they can't catch by now, staying late this week isn't going to fix it. You learn to catch when you are 10.

There was this one receiver that made a spectacular catch of the only ball thrown to him. I guess no one wanted to see any more of that.

good plays aren't allowed on browns teams, bro.

There are 2.5 guys that I trust as receivers:

1. Duke
2. Devalve
2.5 Njoku (still early)

Hey Peen,
Yes, you learn catching at 10 but these guys need to go over plays to get timing down like clock work. There were 2 times when Kizer threw behind receivers. Also, to fix the "dropsies" you gotta practice catching.. over and over and over again.

I remember Torry Holt saying that he came in on off days to catch some crazy amount of balls. That is called being dedicated to you craft. SO the Browns should MAKE those WRs come in and get dedicated!!

He was dawgin' it.

Leslie. He made a similar grab in one of our pre-season games also. I don't know why we don't see more of him...

If I were Hue I'd have everyone of our WR's catching passes from dawn till dusk and then some. I would make it understood that until there is improvement this is the way it's going to be. I'm sick of all the drops as everyone is. There may have been a different outcome if those passes were caught. DK has a lot to learn, he is young, but he's not getting the help he needs. I think he can be very good but not if he doesn't get some help from his receivers.

I know who it was...I'm just being a bit glib there. That kid wants to play. He probably would have caught every pass that Britt dropped. I can't believe the excuses people are making, like "it was thrown a little behind him". He got both hands on them and still couldn't make the catch. Leslie got 2 fingers on it and made the catch, lol. I'm done with Britt. The only catch he made was where he was wide open and Kiser laid it right into his hands. He doesn't battle or give any extra effort to come down with the ball.

PFF grades ... probably a lot better than I anticipated regards to comments on Kizer... which is interesting as pff is a neutral source for evaluating Kizer.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-refocused-indianapolis-colts-31-cleveland-browns-28

Both Leslie & Kasen Williams had nice catches ( 1 for 26 & 1 for 10) and were never seen again. That is just freaking STUPID. My biggest complaint about the game this week. I mean WTF!?! The keep feeding the drop machines and bench the producers. There is NO FREAKING EXCUSE for this.

Moneyball budget does not allow for a jugs machine

Is it me or am I crazy and think we should run Telfer, Devalve, Njoku, and Duke are our Wide Outs from here on out?

Why hasn't Kasen Williams been getting more time on the field?

This. Peppers has absolutely blown in the open field.

This was a concern I had about him pre-draft, and there were some people who I think are knowledgeable that agreed (which is not why I find them knowledgeable). But, I was called a hater and an OSU homer for airing that opinion.

I am more concerned about it now than I was pre-draft because he is a Brown. If your last line of defense cannot play in the open field, then you are in trouble.

Maybe you should concentrate on the effort of the right side of the OL to block? Maybe you should look at Crows average yards per carry when he runs left and then look at that same measurement when he runs right.

As for now you're looking at perception rather than anything else.

Kizer hit them in a bad spot...... The hands.

We got out motored. And a few like Taylor got taken to the woodshed AGAIN. We have no cover or contain there consistently. Play up to some folks' opinion of you because I didn't see it Sunday.

I distinctly remember Kizer having to pull Leslie aside and explain to him what to do before one play after his catch. Kasen Williams broke inside when Kizer expected him to break outside. Plus, Williams had only been with a team a short amount of time.

I'm guessing they don't know the full playbook as well as they need to to run all the plays effectively/correctly. Once we fell behind we were somewhat in hurry up mode and didn't have time to explain things to them.

Coleman was the one guy Kizer had chemistry with (and actually caught the ball). Sucks that he's the one that went down.

I'm somewhat starting to wonder about Hue's ability to install an offense. He can play call and he can add to an offense already in place, but developing the base in the first place I'm not sure he's really shown he can do.

I can't think of a single play that we consistently run well. We've got a bunch of plays we seem to execute poorly.

Kasen Williams, claimed on waivers from Seattle just before the start of the season, was targeted twice and made one catch for 10 yards. The other throw was intercepted at the the 3-yard line on a play that possibly looked like miscommunication as Kizer threw behind Williams.

Williams said he ran the right route, and Kizer adjusted to what he saw, and then missed.

"I did what I was supposed to do," Williams said. "He saw the inside backer closing in and he wanted to put me away from the inside backer to protect me. He wanted to put me a little bit outside and it was just a little bit too far for me."

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2017/09/browns_receivers_drop_the_ball.html

Of course you're right, Grimm. I guess what ticks me of is when something works we never see it again. I'm from the school of thought that says do it until they stop you.

to be fair to Hue and his installs.

during game 3 (I watched it last night) the commentators were discussing Kizer not remembering the calls Hue was sending in the game. and between Hue sending the plays in to Kizer and Kizer would forget half of the play when relating the play to the huddle.

IF this is true, then Kizer needs to sit until he knows the playbook. unbelievable. no wonder Hogan looks better to me on the field.

excellent thought eli manning had the same problem when he was a rookie.

25 years ago I learned that a team playing bad won't start playing better ball unless they keep the team together.

The Browns can't seem to keep from making a roster move 24 hours before kickoff.

Kizer is the real deal. Kizer is the real deal, he throws a catchable ball, if he can keep them from being intercepted he shows that he will take a game over to win it, eventually.

The WR's are pretty special, if they can just find which one is about to have a good day today.

The thing about only passing the ball and refusing to run?
Man, when did that start, did Pettine do that or is that only since Hue came around.

The worst thing is everything this year looks way too similar to last year. If it weren't for a missed field goal they would have been 0-16.

I think there are people on this planet that could take this current Browns roster to the playoffs.

After they lose these next 2, I think the Hue Jackson things are really going to start.

There's going to be a split, if these next 2 games look exactly like the last 19 games.

There's going to be the reality of people saying, "well after 22 games, what is Hue offering you, what difference is Hue making?"
He's got 21 new players so this isn't last years team, a lot of vets in there too.


I mean, you can't blame these losses on last years center and right guard. You can't blame it on Whomever McCourty, and Calvin Pryor were brought in to replace, or even work in collaboration with before the team outright cut them.

That's 1/2 the folks will say


The other 1/2 are still going to say, You can't blow this thing up again, you just can't we can't go back to square 1, We just can't
WE CAN'T FIRE HUE BECAUSE WE HAVE TO GIVE SOMEBODY A CHANCE TO GET THEIR GUYS IN HERE
WE CAN'T
WE CAN'T
WE CAN'T

But That's exactly what they said when they fired Shurmur(didn't like him) Pettine (I liked him) and Whoever else there was.


If Hue loses the next 2!
And if they score not close to 20 in either game

And if they continue to not get a RB near the 100 yd mark, or not get near 100 yards rushing as a team, except for the Qb scrambles after a dropback.


Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe nobody cares. Last year, I kind of went along with waiting, figured this year, or even late last year there would be some progress, something to hang your hat on that they are improving.


Finally. I think I can guess, at least take a wild guess why the guys who don't make catches stay on the field and the ones who make a pretty good catch and then sit the rest of the day, don't stay on the field.

I guess it's probably that there are things communicationally, and things like complex assignments as to what to do in a certain situation, that mean you are following the coaches plan, and somewhere the coaches see that some of these guys can answer the questions in the classroom, or show their understanding of the complexities of the whole package,

and then the pass catchers only in one play, probably don't grasp the whole complex package.

I don't know. It's just a guess.

It doesn't matter Because the Browns are going to win the next 2 games!

They may win the next 6 in a row, if this offense gets working
The defense plays elite.

And the turnovers and breaks go the right way.

6-3 I expect it! This year! This is Our Year Baby!

Wouldn't Kizer not being able to remember the calls be an install problem? (Although, I'm not sure I saw what the commentators did) I.e, he's trying to install too much. Too much time on bells and whistles when the basics aren't firmly entrenched. I actually thought Kizer was better in and out of the huddle in Indy. At times, I thought it may have been he wasn't able to hear the play more than not able to remember it.

People like to use the language analogy with learning an offense. In that vein, it kind of looks to me like Hue is trying to get Kizer to use adverbs, adjectives, and future perfect tense when he's still not 100% on sentences like "See Spot run".

When teaching someone a foreign language, you don't just throw them in a foreign country and expect them to be fluent. You start with the basics and build from there.

The playcall can be objectively correct, but if not everyone really/fully understands it, it isn't going to work very well.

I don't think it's just with Kizer, everyone seems to be messing things up, even the guys who got here last year.

One of the problems with being such a young team is that not everyone is a master linguist/playbook learner like Joe T. It doesn't help that guys like Louis and Coleman ran offenses that looked little like pro systems, and we brought in several new receivers. We don't really have a vet receiver steeped in the offense.

We have new lineman as well who aren't really fluent yet.

It's going to take time regardless to achieve "fluency", but I can't help but feel we might progress faster if Hue started smaller. Get them comfortable with a few go to plays. Less of the lineman out wide stuff and everybody shifting/"abnormal sentence construction."

during game 3 (I watched it last night) the commentators were discussing Kizer not remembering the calls Hue was sending in the game. and between Hue sending the plays in to Kizer and Kizer would forget half of the play when relating the play to the huddle.

IF this is true, then Kizer needs to sit until he knows the playbook. unbelievable. no wonder Hogan looks better to me on the field.

I thought the announcer said that this happened during OTA's and that by time training camp came around he was much more prepared.

I could be wrong, but that is what I think they said.

I really hope that's the case.

I find it amusing that people are even paying attention to what some announcer who wasn't even in the huddle has to say about it. He would have no way of knowing if that's even true.

I took it as Kizer had that problem earlier - like, in pre season. And, that's why he spent time after practice, on the field by himself, calling plays and "mock" lining people up.

I forgot about this play and thought everyone else should enjoy in my misery:

Remember when we had the Colts on their own one yard line with twelve years to go and then they went shotgun and completed a long pass.

That was the play when my dogs ran out of the room because Dad yelled the bad/mad word.

Years, yards. The Browns are crushing my brain.