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J/c ... its year two of a complete tear down ... I'm as dissapointed as you in what I've seen so far ... very dissapointed actually ... but its still year two of a complete tear down .... way way way to early to draw final conclusions and way way way to early to be firing anyone in the fo or the coaching staff ...

It stinks were this bad again and i expected more ,... I'm not happy ... but I UNDERSTAND and ACCEPT it for what it is ... year two of a complete re-build ...

There's been bad execution from the players ...

- bad passes
- more drops than i could have ever imagined
- horrible open field play by peppers
- horrible, horrible qb play .. i knew he wasn't ready and it would be a rollercoaster with more bad than good .. but it really hasn't been a rollercoaster its been a sharp downhill drop with very few small upward swells ...

There's been bad moves by the fo

- signing Britt ... he was fools silver ... no one ever thought he was gold ... *L*
- cutting Haden and Grecco

There's been bad coaching

- hue abondon the run again yesterday
- not sure what williams has been doing on D with the safeties ... i can't figure out his plan here ... hopefully he thinks Peppers is learning something the hard way ...

There's been no lack of injuries

- coleman looked good in week 1 ... dissapeared in game 2 and then got hurt ... looked like him and Kizer could have been developing something ..
- mg hasn't played yet, Jc has missed the last 2 games and shelton missed last week ...

There's also been some positives .... and there is some talent on the team (question is how much and how good are they) ... we have more talent on D than we've ever had ... we finally have starters that could play on other teams in the nfl ... granted we still have a lot of position groups that have ZERO TALENT and are far below average (wr and cb pop right out at ya) ... but we also have some talent around especially in the front 7 on D ...

THERES ALSO BEEN IMPROVEMENTS in both play and players

Duke has always been pretty good .. this year with the ball in his hands hes been special ... hes been as good as anyone ... every time he touches it i go to the edge of my seat ... u do to .. *L*

Ogbah has played well .... nassib has improved, better than i thought ... Shobert looks like a brand new player ...

There's more, this is a pretty long list ... right now its hard to see through the losing ...

Our run d is vastly improved ...

Our OL is playing better ..

Our TE's have a ton of upside ...

Our front 7 is playing OK despite the losses of some key players ...

Its been a tough 1/4 of the season ... i didn't imagine this ... but that don't change the fact this is YEAR TWO OF A COMPLETE TEAR DOWN ..

and even though its really hard to see it through the losing and the dissapointment and the anger, there are some bright spots ...

I think this angle gets lost amongst the anger of the team so far this year. If Hue was to be fired mid-season or even at the end of this year, what respectable coach would want to come here knowing Haslem's track record with coaches lasts no longer than two years? Even after a complete rebuild? I can't see Jimmy firing Hue this year. I just can't.

Dude, we are getting worse each game. Our defense is not what we were expecting or what we saw in preseason. We have 0 pass rush, 0 guys that can cover, and poor tackling.

Our offense is the worst in the league. Hands down. Its pathetic. I really thought we were moving in the right direction, but we are not. The guys they have brought in are non-existent. 3 first round picks - 1 cant get on the field, 1 looks lost in the secondary, and 1 is non existent on offense. We always think we have the smartest guys in the room reach for picks reach for picks. Did anyone watch D. Watson play like Warren Moon yesterday? I did. He is 10X the player Kizer is. It is night and day.

Anyone watch TJ Watt sack us to a win in week 1? Peppers cant even get on screen he has to play so far back because he cant take a correct angle.

and I don't even want to comment on Njoku, he looks lost and confused.

We are worse than last year, when we went 1-15. Coach is 1-19 in two season. BY SHEAR LUCK HE SHOULD HAVE WON 2 GAMES BY NOW.

It is not hard to figure out. Run slants and curls as our guys are playing soft and 40 yards of the ball. Our guys are not within 5 yards of any player at any given time. We ar getting picked apart play by play. So much for "we are going to be aggressive and get after the QB" defense that was advertised. I knew the offense was going to stink, I am really extremely disappointed in the defense.

The St. Louis Browns ... now there's a name from the past.. btw.. those Browns moved to Baltimore too.. became the Orioles.

Last 36 games the Broens are 4 32
That's amazing
How the heck did Pettine win 7 games?

It really is hard to believe how bad we've been. It hurts when you love a team and there's constant losing and turmoil. It's gotten to the point no one teases me about my Browns anymore. They actually feel sorry. Sad.

Progress. We are getting worse. The coaches seem to be random. We are too hurt. We are too timid. Our D has less impact, Taylor has been owned, and we benched almost all our best. Just crazy watching these losses to the "easy" teams with bad records.

Throw the middle. Challenge with the run. Use a variety of screens. We are doing nothing much to help a rookie QB who is in over his head compete and succeed. Just pathetic. So, Hue thinks his coaching is competitive. Maybe another presser with assurances will be the difference maker. Go for the win. Get an aggressive OC. Our offense when we get behind inevitably gets worse. I would consider Hogan for some work. DK, you are not close at all IMO.

There are only 3 times since 1999 that I felt the Browns have put a legitimate NFL team worth watching on the field. The entire 2002 season, 2007 until the Anderson fool's gold wore off and the Hoyer destroyer games before he got hurt. That's it for 19 frickin seasons. And now we're as hard to watch as ever.

we are the youngest team in the NFL.

we have the most amount of 1st and 2nd year players on any roster throughout the league.

and this: when it comes to the number of players with experience between 3-7 years, we are dead last in the nfl.

we have a bunch of kids trying to grow up with each other with very little veteran experience available to them.

that falls squarely on the shoulders of the Front office.

0-4 start not withstanding..What exactly did you expect from this defense?

2016 this defense was 31st worst in the NFL, 21st against the pass and 31st against the run.

So far in 2017, they are 16th in the NFL, 23rd against the pass and 9th against the run...

And have been missing, supposedly, their best pass rusher in Garrett all season, best LB in Collins for the last 2+ games, and run stuffer Danny Sheldon this past week.

They are getting pressure on the QB, despite missing Garrett. I admit, I don't understand the 30 yard deep safety, but hell, that is a major improvement over last year's defense.

What exactly did you expect from this defense?

I can't speak for anyone else, but I expected Growing Pains. But I also expected some growing to occur.

Almost seems like the regressed from the first game against Pittsburgh and yesterday.

I understand we're missing Garrett and Jamie Collins.. They'll be back. We may be missing Joe Haden as well if for no other reason this experience and leadership. Obviously, he won't be back.

Experience may be the key factor, but geez, we just got killed.

With all due respect, Hue is not our guy and never will be for us or anyone else. Saying that you need to give a coach 3-5 years is the same kool aid that has destroyed folks!!!!

Kizer is not going to get better. It's over!!! He doesn't have it. Case closed!!!!

brian hoyer.

I've said it before, and AGAIN will state quite clearly, I am not comparing Kizer to Manning...BUT, after 4 games, Kizer has better stats that Manning did after 4 games.

I am not saying that to say what he will become, I am stating it to say there is absolutely NO POSSIBLE way for you to judge that he will not get better. That is a ridiculous statement.

When you've played football all your life and you continually miss wide open receivers with a wobbly ball and can't sense pressure then you are probably mediocre. Which is what we don't want here!!!

I hope you are correct...but...Manning was a consensus #1 overall kind of prospect coming out of a great college career. He struggled at the start then settled down to look in the pros like he did in college. DK needs to settle into something he hasn't really done yet.

I expected to get after the QB. We are not blitzing. I expected gang tackling and running to the ball carrier.

I expected to see what we were told we were going to see. I don't put all that on Myles being out.

I've seen enough QBs like Kizer to know that he is not the QB for this team at this time. You cannot teach accuracy and QB IQ. That should come natural. Yes he can get better but I can't see a long term future. Flat out telling it like it is!

Tony, idk how much football you coached in your life, but it depends on the issue causing the accuracy. So no you are incorrect, you can teach accuracy. Is he inaccurate because of mechanics? If so, you can teach mechanics, you can teach new muscle memory. Are his feet out of whack causing the ball to sail? Are his shoulders out of proportion to his legs when he is throwing? ETC.

You can also take the WR into his inaccuracies. A lot of the balls being thrown in front - did the receiver get bumped and throw the timing off? In the NFL you throw to a spot not a person. This takes time to develop. This could also be the issue, not so much inaccurate, but timing.

Its not as simple as you watching a pass hit the ground and thinking that "oh man what an inaccurate throw". There are lot more than you see on TV that goes into a NFL throw.

Saying you cannot teach accuracy is jut plain incorrect.

On QB IQ- what are you talking about. What particular IQ aspect are you talking about? EVERY QB that comes into the league from college (well just about everyone) plays a spread offense. It takes time to learn NFL game. Some pick it up fast, some take time. What exactly are you talking about?

If you cant teach accuracy then why do QBs spend hours throwing the football at targets, etc? You can always improve your accuracy.

Sorry dude, you don't know what you are talking about.

Nobody said my opinion is fact. But I truly believe Kizer will be mediocre at this point because I've seen this dance 100 times. I believe it will never happen for him here and I'm usually pretty accurate on my predictions. No knock on the kid personally. God bless him!

You're probably pretty accurate in your predictions because a) You probably gnash on every prospect that doesn't show above average signs 2 games into his career and b) This team has hit the reset button every other year which sends those prospects packing without any semblance of a chance to grow.

There is absolutely no possible way to know what a prospect will be after 4 games...could he burn up in a tight spiral hurling toward earth..of course he can. But there isn't a way of predicting how a player is going to react and grow from his experience after only 4 games.

It does, but it takes years. It usually involves tweaks in their throwing motions to major retoolments. Take Hogan for example, he had a horrible delivery for most of his life, and since he's been on the Browns, he's been tweaking it. Now he doesn't have such an elongated cocking motion. Kizer will become more accurate as he practices with his WRs more. They'll develop more of a chemistry, but he won't be making gigantic strides in his accuracy until the offseason.

I disagree! The dude has played football his whole life. When Big Ben got on the field as a rookie, you knew you had something special right off the bat. I see nothing from Kizer. He does have a strong arm but who cares if you can't hit the side of a barn!!!

This.

I think you can tell right away if a QB has it or not. He doesn't need 6 games to show you something. I see NOTHING from kizer except height and a strong arm. The rest, forget about it!!

Hard to judge a QB with the lack of talent we have at WR and the Run Game hasn't helped either ... JMHO

I know, it's really sad that everybody in the world knew we needed WRs and they did so little to address it. That really gave me doubts about Sashi. I don't think they're as smart as they think they are. This is really blowing up in their face. The play calling has been horrific. That is the main culprit. Hue!

Id love to know how many page hits the official website gets during the draft, preseason and then right now - after we start losing and fans accept it's already yet another season on deck.

Thousands, thousands more, then what? Few here and there hahaha. Just a random thought I had.

He tossed some gopher balls as well, like short arming them into the dirt. And we have some folks open as well.

My biggest fear surfaced last week after the game. I am sitting here, lovely glass of koolaid handy, and I keep getting assurances, how well we practice, how hard we work, who is taking blame, whose psyche is fine and dandy playing QB, how we need to forget and move on, and it will be better some day. After seeing the same junk four weeks in a row.

My fear is this: Outside a snappy presser each week, are we just passively OK in the FO with this? We got dressed and did the same thing as last week, name our starter as the starter again (you know it is bad when . . .), and play horrible ball in about all phases of the game . . . again. Our account of the game in our biased paper locally was sickening bragging about how they got all better in one afternoon. We had no answer.

So has this FO got the bar where it wants it? Is this the standard weekly product come what may? DIs there a limit on how many Britt's Brigade can drop. The analytics of Hue's performance and our play must be worthy of scrutiny and, gasp . . . some changes. But I am afraid that is not shared. Meanwhile, fans leaving early should help the Tribe's traffic pattern.

and again you would be wrong. It was already proven you can teach accuracy. Ben came into a super bowl level defense and team with Hinez Ward, plexico Burress, and Jerome Bettis. I believe Hines is listed as a Canton Candidate, is he not? I believe the Bus is in Canton, is he not? Gimme a break. Two totally different scenarios.

Had the players executed the plays that were called, Hue would be looking brilliant to you right now. It's ALL about execution.

Agreed, talent and execution will always be the biggest factors of any team. Now one can argue that a coach should be coaching execution, however you still have to have the talent to execute. its a catch 22. we have no talent, therefor no coach is going to get these players to execute.

I won't go so far as to say we have no talent.

What I will say is that the talent we may or may not have is so young and raw that we have no idea how they may develop and what they may become.

I'll take Buster Skrine as an example. He looked lost as hell early in his career. lol But he developed into a decent CB. I would have never believed that he would have gotten to the point where he did after a few years of experience.

On the other hand, we heard all of the wonderful news of how much better Cody Kessler would be in his second season with a year of experience under his belt. He actually regressed. So it can vary greatly from player to player.

That's why I won't say we are devoid of talent nor will I say we have a lot of talent. Many of our players are rookies and second year players. They are raw an undeveloped. My best guess is that we are a couple of years away from knowing what we have in these young kids.

But those claiming "We look good on paper" are only fooling themselves and have nobody to blame for that but themselves.