DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Kizer

I have long held the opinion that it's easier to rein in a young QB than it is to try to make him more aggressive on the field. (see Cody Kessler, who I thought might be able to do so, as an example, and proof of my folly)


Kizer has a lot of things you just can't teach. Hopefully he'll learn those thing that can be taught.

You know, I agree with almost everything you stated in your post. But here? I call BS. This has happened with every HC we've had since 1999. It's nothing knew here which is what made it so easy for you to predict and for me to agree with you.

But it's happened to every HC we've had here since 99 be them black or white. They've all been used as a scapegoat. I think playing the race card here only serves as an attempt to incite people.

Butch Davis, Eric Mangini, Pat Shurmer and Chris Palmer are all examples of how your race comment is inaccurate.

Thats not true .... his 3 or 4 biggest issues were all problems at nd ... thats not true either ... *L* ... he never held the ball like he does now ... but thats an extension of one of the problems he carried with him ... he locks onto his primary for way to long ... he had that issue at nd ... so the holding the ball too long is a rookie thing ... I'll give u that one .. but like i said .. thats also an extension of locking onto his primary witch is not a rookie thing with him ... he did it for two years at nd .... same with his other major issues so far ...

Don't make the mistake of thinking all his problems are related to him being a rookie ... the fact hes a rookie makes everything that much harder ... no doubt .... but everything were seeing is not a rookie thing ....

He will have growing pains. And really think he will learn just give him time. He is just a rookie.

I think playing Pittsburgh tough had more to do with the elevated expectations than anything. Turns out Pitt isn't exactly all that and a bag of chips (maybe just 'all that').

But there's also another thing. Losing to the Colts is bad. We're a bad team, but they're also a bad team. It's the getting blown out of the water in the first half so bad they could coast the rest of the game with Jacoby Brissett leading the offense after being with the team for maybe a month. I feel like I had my expectations accurately set, but I still got pissed about the first half of that game.

Yeah, youngest roster and growing pains and all that... but Jacoby Brissett?

A blowhard huh ... and u wonder why u get suspended .... ... and then u have the audacity to moan about it and tell us how unfair it is .... what a stand up guy ...

Please quote my post about hue not doing Kizer any favors and tell me WHERE I'M WRONG .... I'll be waiting MR. I ONLY WANT TO TALK FOOTBALL ...



U reffering to me here? .. if so, be a man and say it ...

u wanna call someone a racist .. at least be a man about it and call them out by name ... u want to say it ... OWN IT ....



Your prolly right here .. and that PEES ME OFF .... fo guys shouldn't be involved in anything other than the 53 man roster decisions .... when it comes to subs, starters, playing time, play calling .. pretty much anything GAME DAY RELATED the fo should be spectators ...

Hue did however make his bed .... it appears he agreed to let the fo have final say over the 53 man roster .... i think the haden and grecco cuts were proof of that ... thats just my gut ...

GM - am i wrong? .. u have any clue?

And i said this a few times during TC when hue said he needed to talk to the fo about the qb position and reps and stuff .... he shouldn't be saying that much less doing it .... but if he did, I'm guessing thats the org. Structure he agreed too ...

If he agreed to these things ... then he's as much to blame as them ...



U been busy fixing your mirror?

There's a difference between criticizing someone and saying they should be fired ... i will continue to criticize hue when i think he messes up and appearantly you'll continue to keep telling me that means i want him fired ... even though I've said 100 times NO WAY SHOULD HUE BE FIRED this year or at least next ....

PS. The FO isn't on the sidelines coaching every week ... Hue is ... maybe thats why Hue gets all the attention now ...

I see Vers is halfway into his Schlitz and picking fights again.

I think it is important that we stay the course. We made a decision to blow it up and understood it would take multiple years to turn things around.

I didn't really agree w/the plan, but now that it was made, I think it was very important to stick w/it.

Not trying to incite anything, Pit. I was just expressing my opinion.

In fact, I am pretty damn tired of reading a lot of the crap on here and won't even respond to the posts from some of the others that followed your post.

I'll state my opinions and that is about it. I'm about done w/the BS from many posters.

You accused diam and peen of being racists then are just going to walk away from that?

At least take it back. It's not even true. Way overboard.

Nope.

It's mine, too. I factor in his age, our WR issues and I don't dismiss those aspects, but the accuracy is something to keep an eye on.

first 4 games of the season:

Deshaun Watson: 811 yards, 7 TDs, 4 Int, 7.1 yards per pass, 64.9%

19 carries, 148 yards, 2 TDs

DeShone Kizer: 764 yards, 3 TDs, 8 Int, 5.4 yards per pass, 51.4%

22 carries, 97 yards, 2 TDs

______________________

not saying anything, just putting that out there. obviously anything can happen in the future.

however, i will point out one major factor:

Watson has Hopkins to throw to.

Kizer has a bunch of future burger king employees he has to work with.

The WRs not getting open is a bit overplayed. Guys are open. Kizer isn't making the plays.

The FO's legacy to date is staring a gift horse in the mouth and walking away. Trade down to avoid drafting Wentz. Trade down to avoid drafting Watson. They apparently didn't get the memo that QB is the single most important position in all of sports.

But hey, quantity over quality. That's the Depo way. I think he said that from his home in La Jolla...2,000 miles away from Cleveland. He probably laughs every time he cashes a Haslam check. Maybe those trucking companies hired him to infiltrate the Browns and torment Jimmy.

Steady as she goes, the case can be made DK has showed composure

Kizer has shown some stuff.. my biggest concern is that he misses too many throws that are there to be made.. and we simply can't afford to miss anything if we want to have a chance to be competitive.

Yep, and we freed Houston of 16million in salary for a bad QB we cut, and handed them their QB of the future!

But, but, we got draft picks..... 8(

Its prolly best ... nothing good can come from it and its not about football ...

I'm just glad to know he didn't do it to incite people and it was just his opinion ...

Well, now it is 1-19.

Sorry man, front offices aren't tagged with won loss records. Head coaches are.

I didn't make up the rules, so don't blame me.

Thanks. I heard that yesterday.

One bullet in the cylinder, spins the cylinder of the revolver, puts the gun to his head, pulls the trigger... Click or Bang ?

Swish, DW has a better supporting cast in Houston than DK has here. It's not an excuse it's a fact. Plus, he played more in college than DK. DK just needs more time and playmakers. I like DK a lot and really want him to succeed.

This kid has shown me the same mistakes each and every time. I don't think we have a supporting crew able to help someone with so much distance to travel before doing the right stuff and etc.

Losing is what we get with Kizer. He makes the same mistakes all of his starts and guess what? I bet he'll be making them again come next Sunday since Hue (the great, Al' Mighty QB coach) wants to lose for a slither of hope of improving over winning, which is what the fanbase needs.

Good luck eventually not having any fans with this crap organization and decisions.

Kiser was inaccurate and slow making decisions in college and he is slow in the Pros. I'll admit the drops don't help.

Is Kizer playing D?

Improve the D to an acceptable level, and then talk about QB play..

I also think very most of posters on this forum can't even tell what a good QB or good WR looks like, so they should avoid talking about it.

Glad to hear someone else be concerned and point out where we are with Kizer-ball. Despite what I am being told, I am not seeing much progress. To be fair to him, it is hard to look at and judge the rook's game with the truly awful Britt Brigade Receiving Corps and some truly questionable offensive decisions from Hue. We are not using all of what we drafted. Deep ball ability, elusiveness, speed, can run, and others. Hue isn't giving him much help with little and rare misdirection (we do run the draw a bunch). I think he is worse now than game one.
My big concern is what is not getting coached out of him like locking on to his first read, not staring down targets much too long, not throwing it away, stuff that should be improving at least marginally, but sadly is not. Taking sacks and 5+ drops per game, mostly drivekillers. I also am troubled by his often waiting on the shortest check down route. Laughable how often he hits a short pass or takes a sack. Hue? DK? Both?

Our offense is putrid. And we don't seem to do anything differently. Tired of being told it is swell. I expect plenty of mistakes. Therefore I also expect improvement along with growing pains. I think we are allowing him to get more bad habits in place, and let some he brought with him to get worse. As a trend, better or worse? I pick the latter, but I am willing to be led to the light.

Go, Browns.

It's not just last game, as I noted in my post. For you to say many people don't know what they're talking about and should avoid talking is actually really lame.

Good job being an idiot.

Its just the simple truth... Wentz, Bridgwater, Carr, Deshaun.. all no good QB's for the majority of the posters...

After this kind of assessments, why would you even comment on QB play?

My opinion, is that Kizer is in an impossible situation being used has an easy escape goat. Nobody on O is playing at an acceptable level, and the D is a disaster...

My feeling is that with an average safety, our record would be much better. If only we had drafted a viable safety like Hooker..

Also my feeling is that Hue is a train wreck... He has absolutely no clue on what he is doing.

I would comment because he touches the ball each and every time on offense.

Yes, the WR misses catchable balls when they are actually catchable.

Yes, the defense sucked last game. With bad safety and secondary play.

Yes, Kizer been put in a bad situation.

... etc.

Noone is really arguing with you there. But...

He still stares down his WR without scanning

He still holds the ball for too long.

He still misses wide open WRs with no pressure or any reason to be inaccurate.

... etc.

People are talking bad about him specifically because he's playing bad. The whole team is playing bad.

JMO

And I would argue, that no matter how Kizer would play, we would still be in this position. Very few any rookie QB could have done.

Not on how the D is playing...
Not on how our O is setting up to be...

The more I see, the more I come up with the impression that he is being set up to fail...

Give him a viable escape and I might agree with you. Until I see plays being called with a check-down option, and more use of the TE's, I will reserve my opinion.

You cannot ask a QB to trust WR's that are not only dropping balls but that are constantly being disrupted on the routes they are running.

Meanwhile, an average safety and CB and we would probably be 2-2..

Brady took a bunch of nobodies and won games... I'm not saying let's compare Brady to Kizer because that's silly - but Brady has the ability to make crap into chicken dinner because of his play and his position.

The team isn't helping Kizer, and Kizer isn't helping the team. IMO, that's the best way of putting it.

how is kizer suppose to grow when the people who throws the ball to can't catch the ball?

i didn't want kizer either, but we also have to be realistic.

are you guys aware that 3 or 4 of his picks this year have came from balls being bounced off the receiver's hands?

and what does it say about our talent level on O that our leading receiver is a freaking running back?

BB would not even touch the majority of the nobodies we have...

And I'm almost sure that he would set up a championship D with the talent and picks we have,not this sorrow excuse of a D we have.

The Bernard TD is one of the most un-excusable, sickening plays I have ever seen, much worst than anything Kizer has done

Just watch the release of our WR's, and how they are disrupted on almost all plays..

They run to where the D allows them to run...

And Its my feeling that our O would easily put 20-30 points on our D...

That's how bad our D is

Very astute point Rastaplan.
Browns WRs get so redirected so easily off their route it throws the whole timing off.
And when you have 3 different WRS dropping passes how in the heck is he supposed to get comfortable.
As a group the Browns WR lack polish and intelligence running routes. And their Is no one to mentor them ....Kenny Britt hes a joke
That Watson kid on Houston has really good route runner ....heck even Hopkins has learned to seperate by a push off great great move
Kizer has played 4 games and the know it alls expect him to be on the level of a top 15 qb.
Hard to do when the front office is givng him garbage at WR and lack of a OC that's not also the head coach

And yet Hogan moves the ball with the same wr's.

Kizer throws it as hard as he can on every to throw. Don't need to throw a bullet when the guy is five yards deep.

Hogan throws a much more catchable ball

Nonsense.

The only reason Hogan has moved the ball is because

1. Teams are not gameplanning for Hogan.
2. He has played against a mostly 2nd string defense.

If you are an NFL WR and you cannot catch a ball that hits you in both of your hands at chest level, you should make the catch.

Kizer, as of yet, has had a guy who could make that catch down field.

I bet Kizer wishes he had Watsons targets in Houston.

Goodness...........both sides are nonsensical.

Kizer has been awful. The WRs have been awful. It's not one of the other.

I am not surprised by this. I wonder why so many people are?