DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Would any other NFL team not fire a 1-19 coach ?

I think not!

yes .. there is many teams out there that wouldn't fire Hue right now ... and there the SMART ONES ...

I'm no fan of Hue Jackson ... i don't dislike him ... hes done some good and some bad since hes been here ... i have no clue why he gets the love around here he does ... NO CLUE ... i see nothing in his backround or what he's done here that tells me hes a very good HC ... NOTHING .... and although he's way behind the 8 ball here he's done nothing here to distinguish himself ... if he has made any splashes they've been negative ... but hes certainly done nothing that he deserves to be fired for ...

But no way in hell should he be fired ... NOT EVEN CLOSE ... there shouldn't even be any talk about it ... he deserves at bare minimum until the end of next year (20 games from now) ... thats the first time i would even have a discussion about it ...

I think the smart team would have never hired the guy!!! I never wanted him!!!

Would any other teams keep their FO together if their team was 1 and 19?

People blaming Hue for the 1 and 19 record are clueless.

as are people thinking the youngest team in the NFL with a rookie QB are going to win many games this year.

I agree. We almost completely purged the roster. This is year two. I expected this and even tried warning people of it. Now, these "positive posters" are turning on the HC.

Freaking brilliant.

some would ... the SMART ONES ...

Just like Hue the FO has not been given enough time ...

People that don't know there's many many factors that INCLUDE HUE that have contributed to our 1 - 19 record are clueless.

Expecting 3 or 4 wins is asking to much? Gimme a break ....

and at this point the bars actually lower than that ... how about expecting to BE COMPETITIVE ... 2 of the last 3 weeks have been NON COMPETITIVE ... and the 3rd week wasn't really competitive, the final score with our late td's made it appear that way ... truth is .. WE WERE NEVER IN THAT GAME EITHER ...

This team has a lot going against it ... no doubt .... but it should be playing better ... EVERYONE has contributed to where we are right now ... EVERYONE ....

Haslam - HORRIBLE HIRES and a quick trigger finger ... he's talking a good game about letting these guys get 5 years ... lets hope he FINALLY gives someone a chance ...

FO - they've made some mistakes .... Schwartz, Gabriel, Haden, Grecco .... there's been some draft gaffes I'm sure ... we'll know more about those over the next couple of years ...

Coaches - Hue has made mistakes and i have no clue what williams is doing with the D (out of all involved in this debacle he gets a pass from me for now cause hes new and MG hasn't played yet and JC has missed the last two ... but that pass is about used up .. i cant for the life of me figure out what the benefits are to playing Peppers in another zip code are)

Players - some are underperforming ....

Plenty of reasons why were here .... now i know why god gave us 10 fingers to point at those who are to blame ... *LOL* ...

I bet there are. We have had enough purges for quite awhile now, since 1999. Hue, warts and all, is getting some results. That firing would demand FO and owner decisions as well.

I keep him, but I think I would demand some coaching items out of his vetting process. I would make it clear he is free to go, a decision we can arrive at individually or mutually. This record demands scrutiny. Just not firing IMO. I do not know the mind of the entire NFL, so this is a loaded or impossible question to answer.

We have learned this: Firing is the easy part. The aftermath can be damning and difficult.

it seems like something is going to give. our roster is weak so the gm is to blame. hue has called some awful playcalls so he`s to blame. britt cant catch so ...its his fault...

our ex players are smart to get out of this mess.

we need to bring it young players to beat out vets...not cut vets and say its an upgrade....

I think firing people is the one thing we shouldn't do. Nothing is working, but finding a bum off the street isn't going to do anything but continue to lose and make us look worse than we are, both player and personnel standpoints.

EDIT

One thing I will say is Hue Jackson doesn't belong calling the plays and being head coach. It's too much for him to handle, and we see stupid calls, late calls getting to the QB, horrid and I mean outright horrid clock management and list the continues. I'd love to see a qualified OC come in and take over duties.

Even if you are right, we are the one team that CAN NOT fire their coach this year. We MUST have coaching consistency if for no other reason than to see if it works. We've tried everything else and look at the mess we're in. We need to allow the team to mature and the coaches & FO time to get a talent-laden team in place. The only way to do that is by allowing time for it to happen. That is all. EOD

I wouldn't fire Hue. But he's needs a OC.
Take the play calling duties away from Hue.let him just concentrate being the HC
But what's lacking is having a real football guy in the front office
Depodesta has no background in football operations.he's a baseball guy.
Sashi didn't come from a football background
These 2 are trying to use analytics to compensate for their lack of football knowledge.
This front office needs a Bill Polian Ron Wolf type.
This franchise is regressing severely
It's still the joke of the NFL.

+1, our "experienced" talent pool has been snakebit again...we can't win with our best WR hurt AGAIN, best LB out, best DL out, AND our savior number 1 stud hasn't played a down- we can't get a break....plus we have to see what Kizer is.....so, we CAN'T fire Hue.....GO Browns!!!! PS, and the players seem to WANT to play for him and each other, they are just screwing up.....GO Browns!!!!

We have fired HC's over and over again. Turned over the FO over and over again. That's exactly what's gotten us to where we are now.

You do know what they call doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results, right?

Insanity doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. . . . we've fired coaches on average every 2 years and people think that by doing the same thing again will produce a different result?

Not only did we completely tank last season - which means the record last year should not be a factor in any decision - we're playing a rookie QB this year which is historically a recipe for not many wins. . . . I agree we need an OC. Let Hue be a full time HC - and let's have a full time OC.

Which HC is going to come to Cleveland if Haslam fires his 3rd HC in what - 5 years? 4 years ? Chud 1 year. Pettine 2 years. Hue 1+ year? . . . . yeah - sure we're going to get our pick of HC candidates .... NOT.

This year we are way under performing in nearly every facet of the game ... and that is truly gut wrenching. As someone posted, Progress? What progress? But if we're serious about giving continuation a chance. If we're serious about jettisoning all the veterans and having a youth movement ... Hue and the FO needs to stay.

One of the things I keep wondering about is the end of season evaluation process. The guys running the show are Harvard boys, I don't think that a rigorous and comprehensive evaluation is unrealistic. I'm positive they have something in place. I guess my problem is what does that consist of?

I would have thought that a comprehensive plan would involve an equally comprehensive post season look at "How did we plan and how did our plan do?"

As we seem to be regressing instead of progressing, it seems that we are not performing according to the plan.

Questions:

What are (is) the plan? ~~> what are the components of the plan?

What component(s) of the plan are and are not meeting expectations?

This should be basic.. Talent on the field, coaching the talent, developing offensive and defensive schemes to utilize that talent.. game management including playing the team within the framework and scope of the rules of the game

Are we properly acquiring the right talent? Who is responsible for such acquisition? How are these decisions made? What were the results of these acquisitions?

Who is involved in the overall evaluation?

How do we implement the results of our evaluations to improve the product and succeed?

It is an interestingly unique situation. The answer is, of course, no. Any other NFL team would fire a head coach who was 1-19. I do however think there are extenuating circumstances that complicate the process further than it already is complicated.

At the end of the day, Jimmy agreed to this. He allowed the complete overhaul of the roster, on a scale rarely seen in the NFL, to provide a fresh start for the team. That alone should reasonably give the coaches some rope when it comes to winning and losing; you can't allow the front office to gut the roster and then expect the coaches to produce results.

Injury has also further warped this. Last season, it was incredible. The entire offensive line, minus only Joe Thomas, missed multiple games or had to rotate to a new position. We had, well, I don't remember how many times we had a new quarterback starting. That injury bug, frustratingly, has followed us in to this season with Collins, Garrett, Shelton and C. Coleman all down, and we're missing them something shocking.

We've also ultimately started fresh again this season with a rookie QB and a new DC, not to mention a pretty massive overhaul of new talent from our plethora of draft selections in the 2017 draft.

I would assume Jimmy is prepared to be patient. It woud leave a foul taste in my mouth if he willingly signed off on the coaches loading up for the 2017 and 2018 draft before firing everyone before those selections were complete, much less actually developed.

It would seem to me that Haslam was aware there would be struggles while this young group began their development, and he allowed it to occur. If he wanted to win now at the sacrifice of a long-term development plan, surely he should have informed the coaches so they could have signed a bunch of veteran players to pretty up the record - Example; The Eric Mangini era, 5-11 is an improvement but knowing it's a roster with no real future is not.

I want to see what happens when these kids develop, and continuity is an important part of that. The cyclical pattern of having to learn a new offense every other year is disastrous. These are still a bunch of kids coming in to their own, learning how to play in the NFL and learning how to execute their game plan.

Personally, I'd wait until next year before considering moving on from the coaches. Worst case scenario - this young team is still young and talented but closer to their peak, and we'll be selling to a new group of potential coaches who've just seen how patient this owner is. Perhaps most of all, too, is any new coach down the line has the luxury of coming to an AFC North that won't have Roethlisberger in it.

Hue Jackson hasn't done himself any favors as far as arguing that he deserves to stick around (with his in-game decisions, overall playcalling, etc.). But by firing him and (presumably) retaining the FO, you are effectively hanging everything wrong with this franchise around his neck, and that's not correct (and it's not debatable).

Further, if you are thinking that swapping coaches is going to magically turn around this team (outside of 1 or 2 wins), you're kidding yourself. If swapping coaches actually worked that way, we'd be the best team in the league by now.

For you and some others blaming play calling.

If the players had executed those plays, would you still be calling them bad?

No... because they executed the plays...

They are bad because they're not executing. So if they executed, they wouldn't be bad.

Am I missing something?

Yes,, if the set up was right.

For instance, if they knew that they were going to do a tear down and rebuild, how smart would it be to do that and blame it on the HC.

I mean, that's just not smart.

In this case, the HC is part of the team making decisions (or so we're told and I believe)so to discard him in the middle of the process is the same as saying, hey, this whole plan was a joke, we were wrong and we're idiots.

They aren't going to do that.. at lease I hope not.

The play calls don't matter if the plays work the way they are supposed to.

1-19. I'm sick of the 2 season records being combined. Regardless of how bad we are, I think it's dumb.

Hey, we're actually 509-474-13 !

And, on topic, I don't fire Hue. The worst thing I do to him is make him hire an OC.

Sashi & Co. have hurt this team more than Hue.

We tore the team down more than we ever have before last season. Several good/very good players that used to be on our team are no longer on our team (Mack, Schwartz, Gipson, etc.). We hired a new head coach, new front office, new scouts, etc. We played as the youngest team in the league last year and were terrible (on purpose).

This season we are again the youngest team in the league. We are playing a QB who came from a college team with a head coach who is an insane person and is not even 22 years old till January. It's been four games.

Losing stinks and is hard to watch. This was/is the plan. It may not be what you signed up for, but it is what the owner of the team signed up for. Changing the plan every two years is what got us to this point, firing anyone four games into season two would be just about the worst thing possible for the future of the team.

couldnt be that they sucked at there jobs right? we just did it for giggles...

You really cant count last year in his record. You can
it just wouldnt be accurate / fair.

was it a mulligan??

As Pit said ... better coaching means plays result in being executed.

The WR's have not helped obviously - and neither has Kizer with errant throws. . . . but with that said it is really really simple. This team needs every single tiny advantage it can squeeze out of any source. . . Having a HC also be your OC (and QB whisperer?) ... means he is NOT a full time OC and therefore the offensive planning cannot be as efficient and prepared as if you did have a full time OC. And if you don't have a full time HC then his HC decisions are also not optimum. There isn't any other way to look at it.

John Mckay went 7-35 in his first 3 seasons and went to the playoffs in his 4th.

Jimmy Johnson was 2-18 in his first 20 games and we know how that one turned out.

I do think things would be a bit easier for Hue Jackson if he had an offensive coordinator, but I don't think the actual calling of plays on gameday should hinder him in any way. Plenty of NFL head coaches call their own plays and are not worse off because of it.

No problem with him calling plays on gameday.

And there are some HC who are their own OC ... they are on better teams that are not in need of so much help and development throughout so many areas of the team.

Yeah, but was he 1-19?

My guess is that most coaches who start out with horrible records historically don't right the ship, but many of coaches probably didn't start out in the hole Jackson is/was in.

I think one of us must be missing something. lol

You said the play calling was poor overall. Then in the next post you claimed if the players had executed, the plays called would have been fine. I don't really think you can have it both ways.

I'm not really a part of this conversation but I will add this:

Even if passing plays would have been executed far better these past few weeks I'd still be complaining about the lack of run calling. I think this has been a big issue.

That's actually not the message I was trying to send at all.

If the players don't execute the plays, fans blame the coach. If that same coach, called the exact same plays and the players executed those plays, he would be called good.

It's not about the plays that are called, it's about whether the players execute the plays that are called.

I'm not really trying to disagree with you, but let's be honest here. If Kizer were lighting it up, our WR's actually catching the ball and our record was 3-1, how many people do you actually feel would be posting about the lack of a running game?

I'm not saying that nobody would comment on it, but the fact is that winning cures everything in the eyes of the vast majority of fans.

To a degree I blame it on what I'd like to call the "microwave people".

They're so used to having their food in 60 seconds or less that they believe everything should be this way. lol

I know I'm going to hear all of the, "We've been waiting since 1999" BS.

The problem is, it's these same people who have wanted coach after coach, FO after FO fired because they didn't get their food in 60 seconds or less.

Yet they never seem to learn from their mistakes.