DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Falcons' Vick indicted by grand jury in dogfighting probe

As of March 2007, Jones has been arrested five times and questioned by police ten times since he was drafted by the Titans in 2005. Many NFL commentators are quick to point out that Jones has more arrests than interceptions since being in the NFL.[5]

* On July 13, 2005 Jones was arrested on charges of assault and felony vandalism stemming from a nightclub altercation.

* On September 5, 2005 Jones was a guest at the annual Nashville Sports Council Kickoff Luncheon. After a loud verbal tantrum when he was told to wait in line for his vehicle later that evening, Jones was counseled by the police. He also refused to pay for any valet services used that evening.

* In October 2005, in a petition filed by the State of West Virginia, it was alleged that Jones had not made regular and sufficient contact with his probation officer and that he did not report his July arrest in Nashville in a timely fashion. The court ordered the probation extended for a period of 90 days, although the state requested it to be extended one year.

* On August 25, 2006, Jones was arrested in Murfreesboro, Tennessee for disorderly conduct and public intoxication after claiming that a woman stole his wallet. She claimed that she did not steal anything and Jones spat on her. Police officers said they ordered Jones to leave several times, but he refused, continuing to shout profanities at the woman. A judge granted him six months probation on the conditions that he stays out of further trouble and away from the nightclub.[6]

* On October 26, 2006. Jones was cited for misdemeanor assault for allegedly spitting in the face of a female student from Tennessee State University during a private party at Club Mystic, a Nashville nightclub. He was suspended by the Titans for one game and was scheduled to be booked on the charge on November 17, 2006.

* On the morning of February 19, 2007 during the 2007 NBA All-Star Game weekend in Las Vegas, Jones is alleged to have been involved in an altercation with an exotic dancer at a local strip club. Cornelius Haynes Jr., better known as the rapper Nelly, and Jones patronized the club on the evening in question. Haynes began to shower the stage with hundreds of one-dollar bills, an act known as "making it rain". Jones then joined Haynes by throwing his own money for "visual effect". Club promoter Chris Mitchell then directed his dancers to collect the money. According to the club's co-owner, Jones become enraged when one of the dancers began taking the money without his permission. He allegedly grabbed her by her hair and slammed her head on the stage. A security guard intervened and scuffled with members of Jones' entourage of half a dozen people. Jones then allegedly threatened the guard's life.[7] During this time Mitchell and a male associate left the club with a garbage bag filled with $81,020 of Jones' money and two Breitling watches, which Police later recovered.[8] After club patrons exited following the original confrontation, the club owner says a person in Jones' entourage returned with a gun and fired into a crowd, hitting three people, including the security guard involved in the earlier skirmish. The guard was shot twice, and one of the people hit, former professional wrestler Tommy Urbanski, was paralyzed from the waist down. Jones maintains that he did not know the shooter, although the club's owner insists that Jones did. On March 26, 2007 the Las Vegas Police recommended to the city's district attorney that Jones be charged with one count of felony coercion and also a misdemeanor count of battery and a misdemeanor count of threat to life.[9]

* More trouble followed Jones after the altercation, when drug dealer Darryl Moore reported to the police after being busted during a deal about his phone conversations with Jones. "We gotta slow down, man. We gotta get him focused on football, man. He's focused on too much other ," Moore is alleged to have said. Wiretapped phone conversations between Moore and his friends revealed Moore talking about how Jones bet on college games to earn quick money. "You know, I was talkin' to him the other day about smokin', and he was like 'man, if I didn't smoke I couldn't take all the stress that I'm dealing with right now,'" Moore said.[10]

* Jones also is set to appear in a Fayetteville, Georgia court in 2007 for his February 2006 incident on subpoenas for felony and misdemeanor obstruction of justice charges for an incident outside a home. The charges of marijuana in the same state were dismissed.[11]

* Jones has not been connected to the Moore drug arrests or convicted for the Vegas stripper incident. But Titans management have said they will talk to Jones about his future with the Titans, and that there is always a possibility of letting him go. The NFL has issued an investigation into the situation, which is looking into setting up stricter penalties for off-field conduct.[12]

* On April 3, 2007 Jones met with NFL commissioner Roger Goodell on to discuss his future and the future of fellow-former West Virginia Mountaineer and Cincinnati Bengals' receiver Chris Henry.

* On April 10, 2007 the NFL announced that Jones would be suspended for the entire 2007 season, a suspension not assessed a player in 44 years (for reasons other than substance abuse) since Paul Hornung and Alex Karras were each suspended for one season for gambling. This suspension also stated that Jones will not receive pay during this suspension and that it is subject to additional review after the tenth regular season game, pending disposition of pending charges. In anticipation, Nick Harper was signed as an unrestricted free agent. What effect the suspension will have on the salary cap is not yet known, although the Titans could seek repayment of the approximately $1.9 million in signing bonus money due Jones in 2007. The suspension carries no guarantee of reinstatement after it has been completed.

* On April 14, 2007, Jones announced that he would appeal the suspension set by Goodell.[13] However, since Goodell also hears appeals, the chances of winning any reduction in the suspension are extremely slim.

* On May 7, 2007, Jones was stopped at 12:45 a.m. on Interstate 65 heading into downtown after an officer clocked him on radar at 79 mph in a 55 mph zone. Jones was driving his red 2004 Cadillac XLT he bought at police auction last fall. Police seized the Cadillac last spring in a drug bust. The car was not registered to Jones then, but he told a local TV reporter he had loaned the Cadillac to someone for a music video. Police called the man who had the car the main target of their investigation.

* June 12, 2007, Jones drops his appeal to the season-long suspension.[14]

* On June 18, 2007 Jones was sought by police for questioning after a shooting at an Atlanta strip club allegedly involving members of his entourage. According to police at the scene, Jones was not present during the shooting, and is not being charged.[15]

* On June 20, 2007, the Las Vegas Police and Clark County District Attorney's office announced that Jones will face two felony charges stemming from the strip club melee that occurred on February 19, 2007.[16]

* On June 25, 2007, a bouncer at the Las Vegas strip club sued Jones, claiming that he shot him and had bitten his left ankle.[17]




link

That's the reason Pacman got suspended without being convicted. You can only plead wrong place, wrong time so many times before it becomes apparent you are doing something wrong.

Youtube

The Pacman clip was pretty funny.

Vick puts Falcons, NFL in a tough predicament
By Sean McClelland

Staff Writer

Thursday, July 19, 2007

You thought your team had quarterback problems? The Atlanta Falcons have a quarterback who the government says breeds dogs for the purpose of having them viciously tear each other apart, often until one is killed.

Except for having O.J. Simpson as your quarterback, what could be worse? And don't you dare say Charlie Frye.

Michael Vick is innocent until proven otherwise, of course, but a federal grand jury weighed a dog pile of damning evidence and concluded there was enough there for an indictment.

And so the Falcons, who open training camp next week just as Vick will be appearing in court, have a big-time public relations nightmare on their hands. No doubt the animal activist groups already are painting signs for the inevitable demonstration to take place the moment Vick toes the practice field, if not sooner.

This is the biggest challenge yet for new NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell, who's been handing out suspensions like Halloween candy in hopes of getting teams to care more about character.

But Vick would be a felon if these charges are true, not some incorrigible cornerback raining money down on strippers in a club. He would serve time, legal experts are speculating.

So Goodell should cement his get-tough image by taking swift action, even if it means not waiting to see how the court case plays out.

Suspend Vick now? Nobody would bat an eyelash, and maybe the Falcons could conduct training camp in relative peace, free from picketers and Geraldo.

If nothing else, perhaps the Falcons have learned a lesson: Never trade your backup quarterback (Matt Schaub, now a Houston Texan) until you're sure your starter won't be going away for a long while.


Contact this reporter at (937) 225-2408 or smcclelland@DaytonDailyNews.com.

Good read. It's too bad.....Blank is a good guy who deserves better than this. He is screwed no matter what he does. Put the guy on leave before the trial plays out and he alienates half his fan base...let him play, the other half is upset.

He has to hope the NFL steps in...and they probably should to help save one of their teams. The league as a whole could take the hit if it imposed punitive actions against Vick...the team can't.

NFL, Falcons could ask Vick to focus energies in court
By Len Pasquarelli and Chris Mortensen
ESPN.com

ATLANTA -- In what has quickly evolved into a collaborative effort that includes input of officials from the NFL, NFL Players Association and Atlanta Falcons, embattled quarterback Michael Vick could be urged to take a voluntary leave of absence to focus his energy on the legal challenges from a federal dogfighting indictment confronting him, sources said.


There are, however, two critical components that must be resolved: Falcons owner Arthur Blank must be on board with a plan that has generated considerable discussion at the league level the past two days. And Vick, who might be reluctant to accept even a paid hiatus from the game, might have to be convinced that the leave could be his best option.

Blank and the Falcons might also be considering other options.

Under the leave-of-absence scenario, and given the projected timeline of any trial that could ensue from the federal indictments brought against the quarterback Tuesday, all parties would enter into the agreement, if it is consummated, with the expectation that Vick would probably miss the entire 2007 season.

While the concept of a leave has been broached conceptually to associates and advisors of Vick, it has not yet been formally presented to the Falcons' star. Vick, 27, could be briefed about the possibility of a paid leave of absence as early as Friday. He would likely be granted time to consider the suggestion, which would almost certainly have to be communicated by Blank, with a decision not coming until early next week.

It has become clear, as high-level discussions have progressed, that all the parties involved in the talks are desperately seeking a resolution to a potential public relations disaster before the Falcons begin training camp Thursday. A league source acknowledged Thursday that "something one way or the other is going to have to happen ... by the start of training camp."

As incentive for Vick to consider a leave, the union is hopeful that Blank will offer to guarantee the player's $6 million base salary for 2007. That could be a sticking point in negotiations. No one will try to bully Vick into accepting the leave, but he might be reminded that while the league and Falcons are inclined for now to allow due process to play out in the courts, that stance is not an unalterable one, and unfolding events could possibly change the approach of Blank and commissioner Roger Goodell.

Multiple sources at various levels of the ongoing discussions acknowledged that a consensus was beginning to galvanize that nobody, including Vick, will benefit by the quarterback playing the 2007 season under a cloud of suspicion and burden of the federal indictment. In the indictment, Vick is alleged to have conspired in an illegal dogfighting venture conducted on property he owns in Surry County, Va.

Intensive talks continued Thursday with Goodell, Blank, Falcons team president and general manager Rich McKay and NFLPA executive director Gene Upshaw. They discussed the various options available to them, and those discussions are expected to continue Friday.

If convicted on all counts, Vick could face a prison sentence of six years.

Neither Vick nor his attorney or agent could be reached for comment Thursday night. Blank also was unavailable for comment, and a Falcons spokesman referred to the owner's statement released earlier Thursday in which he expressed that "we are working diligently on exploring our options."

"The commissioner is concerned about the seriousness of the charges, and he wants to make sure Vick focuses on putting up the most appropriate defense," a source said. "Vick has to be convinced that it is in his best interests to take a leave of absence ... I think it's fair to say nobody's really comfortable with him playing under these circumstances."

Even a close Vick associate acknowledged early Friday that is the case.

Said the associate: "There's been a lot of stuff going on the last day or so, but the one thing that keeps getting clearer and clearer is that they don't want [Vick] around. The Falcons, the league, they know it's a mess and it's only going to get uglier if camp starts and he's on the field. If he's not [present for camp], at least there's a little bit of 'out of sight, out of mind,' you know? It removes the source of distraction. Otherwise, it's just [untenable]."

A leave of absence would at least temporarily address several possible dilemmas for the Falcons, including how to handle Vick's contract if he does not report to camp on time. And it would enable the franchise, even if Vick doesn't play in 2007, to retain his contractual rights. Vick is scheduled for a bond hearing and his arraignment hearing Thursday, the same day the Falcons hold their initial camp practice under first-year coach Bobby Petrino.

Without an excused absence, Vick could technically be in default of his contract if he does not report to camp on time, perhaps providing the Falcons the right to attempt to recover bonus money already paid to him. There are default provisions, described by one source with close knowledge of Vick's contract as "very tight language," written into the lucrative 10-year extension he signed in December 2004. Vick advisors spent time Thursday discussing the potential default ramifications with NFLPA officials.


Members of the NFL management council, the labor arm of the league, earlier this week began closely reviewing Vick's contract to see what options might be available to Blank and the Falcons if they try to recover any bonus payments.


The 2004 extension has long been advertised as a 10-year, $130 million contract. In reality, because the final season of the contract voided as soon as Vick reached minimum playing-time thresholds, it is a nine-year deal worth about $118 million. Vick has banked more than $40 million, but $37 million of that was in bonuses -- an initial signing bonus of $7.5 million and then subsequent roster bonuses of $22.5 million and $7 million. But for salary-cap purposes, the Falcons exercised an option to convert the roster bonuses into signing bonuses.


That might seem incidental because Vick got all the money coming to him anyway. But if the Falcons attempt at some point to force Vick into paying back part of the bonus money, how the conversions are interpreted might be a point of contention. A ruling in a grievance case involving former Denver first-round wide receiver Ashley Lelie last year made it more difficult for teams to seek repayment of option or roster bonuses.


Atlanta officials might contend that the two most recent bonuses paid Vick, totaling $29.5 million, were converted to signing bonuses, and that they should be permitted to pursue a prorated share of that money. The Vick camp would likely counter that, while the money was paid as signing bonuses, it was actually earned as roster bonuses.


But any contentiousness, and a possible arbitration hearing, could be avoided if Vick accepts a proposal for a leave of absence, one in which all parties agree he will miss camp.


"It would certainly give everyone some much-needed breathing room," said one league source late Thursday night. "People could get on with their business."


Make no mistake, for both the Falcons and the NFL, there is clearly a business component attached to the Vick case.


The league faces a backlash, not only from animal-rights groups but from others, as well. And in the statement Blank released Thursday, he noted his responsibility to his sponsors. The team recently entered into an agreement with Russell Athletic in which the apparel maker will pay $1 million to $2 million annually to sponsor the Falcons' training camp. It could be a camp disrupted by protests if Vick attends.


In another Vick-related matter, the quarterback's camp has begun interviewing candidates to beef up his legal defense team in the event he goes to trial. Vick's longtime personal attorney, Lawrence Woodward, is expected to remain part of the defense team, but advisors have urged that the Falcons' star to consider adding counsel with experience in federal courts.


The Vick camp has solicited recommendations and is believed to have interviewed at least one prominent defender from the prestigious Washington, D.C., firm of Wilmer Hale.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2943276

Wow, this situation is only going to get bigger and bigger.

You know P,the "paid leave" idea sounds like the fairest solution I've seen presented.

I own a Pit myself and this is a very touchy and personal to me in ways I won't even get into. But to say that I want people who are "guilty" of this type of thing prosecuted and sentenced to the fullest exten of the law would be a gross understatement.

And while after reading the federal indictment (which I posted a link to on this thread) the case against Vick looks rather compeling on the surface,he hasn't been "convicted" of anything yet.

I can see how the league and especialy the Falcons would have a rough time running day to day operations with Vick in the mix. The distraction would make it very difficult for the Falcons as a team to operate in any type of normal fashion.

So this would still pay Vick and free the team of these distractions as well as the publicity that will continue as long as Vick is on the team on an active basis. I don't think it's fair to penalize Vick financialy untill or unless he's found guilty.

I think this is a fair solution to all parties involved IMO

Funny thing is that the people from PETA are leading the way in the ban Vick party yet a little while ago their own people were charged with felonies for mistreating dogs they stood behind them. Their people were later aquitted but what makes them think Vick won't be?

My fiance works for Dick's Sporting Goods. They have pulled all of Vick's shoes. I e-mailed Profootballtalk about an hour ago, and they posted something almost right away.
Good for Dick's.

Quote:

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That,or they think they're superior to the basic rule of law given to all Americans by the standard set by Americas legal system. Being judge,jury and executioner seems to be a common trend these days. Thank God we still have laws that prevent that from being the case.

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That's right!! This is America by God, and if the glove does not fit you must acquit!!!

Even if they found rape stands, break sticks, treadmills, bloody carpeteting, a dogfight pit, dog bodies/skeletons on his property. (to name a few items)

Yes there's so many similiarities betwen this and the Duke Rape case .. .... lets list them ...

1. Federal lawyers as opposed to a PUBLICITY SEEKING public official up for re-election who had all ready done MANY MANY SHADY THINGS .... who by the way I believe is either on his way to or all ready has been DISBARRED ... I'll go out on a limb and say that NONE of the Federal prosecuters involved get disbarred ....

2. U have the word of a hooker who had all ready ACCUSED INNOCENT guys of rape before .... another words shed ALL READY LIED ABOUT BEING RAPED vs a TON OF EVIDENCE and an INFORMANT that has given the gov't GREAT INFO on mayny previous occasions ...

Hmmmm ... just like Bonds and OJ .. this SCUMBAG is GUILTY AS HELL and I dont care what the courts say ... its not like we have a PERFECT SYSTEM and the guilty always get convicted and the innocent walk free ...

Oh .. and when i first heard of this my first thought was will one of Vick's "family" members roll on him ... my guess is unless they have a ton of evidence without one of his "family" memebers rolling on him ... one did ...

if I was master of the Universe ... I'd put Vick and all his "family" memebers in a fighting pit after starving them for 3 days ... let them fight to the death or until they surrender ... if they surrended instead of die .. I'd then give them a few more cuts and hang them upside down with only there privates covered in the middle of a town in the desert in Arizona with plenty of free salt in troughs next to them ... there would be a sign hanging .. Please feel free to rub it in to the INHUMANE DEGINERATES ...

then the winner immediatly gets to go up against one of the UFC guys and they fight to the death .... with us deciding if and when he can surrender ...

that sounds about right ... no?????

One key ingrediant both of you dismiss which is the cornerstone of Justice..........................

"Innocent untill provem guilty".

I "think" he's guilty as hell! But it's not my place to judge him. And untill he's "proven guilty in a court of law" I'm not going to.

And you guys can run off at the jibs all you want,but from the sound of things,you'd like to see people persicuted,judged and punished without "due process". Vigilante justice is such a crude and barbaric concept that it compares well to many things I've seen others "pre-judged" for.

And I'd be willing to bet the farm that I have far more personal and emotional reasons to want to see Vick brought to justice than both of you combined.

I would like to see him kicked out of the NFL if he is guilty, then forced to dig graves at a pet cemetery for the next five years.

Remember when Joe Namath was the bad boy QB of the NFL?

I agree with your post Halfback. Which to an extent is the point that I've been advocating since this article was posted on page three of this thread...............................

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2943276

In that article,it is basicly discussing Vick going on "paid leave" untill the outcome of these legal proceedings. I think that's a very common sense approach.

We see this done with civil servants and other sectors of business. It takes Vick out of the picture,yet does not "finacialy punish him" untill such time as guilt is established.

My "opinion" is,based on reading the indictment,that he's most likely guilty as hell. But I think everyone is entitled to due process of law without being penalized beyond a reasonable measure that will create an atmoshpere where the business can be conducted.

I think it's a win/win. Your point,as I read it,is that Vick,by playing,would be a major distraction and a black eye to the Falcons and the NFL. And I agree with you there 100%.

But on the other hand,simply suspending him would send a message that you're punishing someone without letting due process run its course. IMO this too may create quite a backlash for the NFL.

If you read the article posted on page 3 and follow the thread from there,you'll see that this stemmed the debate,at least from my side,from that point forward.

I basicly agree with the articles point about the real possibility of him recieving "paid leave" pending the outcome of the legal proceedings. I think it will make the NFL and the Falcons look as good and as fair as any of the other possible scenarios I've seen,while still not permiting Vick to play.

JMHO

What if he's convicted then Pit ... does he have to give the $$$ back ... one thiing your forgetting here ... he got like 25 million over the last two years in "bonuses" for the 8 or 9 years left on his contract ... if hes CONVICTED hes ALMOST SURELY going to keep that $$$$ ... so the falcons have to pay hom over 30 million in Bonuses and this years salary for one year of play??? *LOL* .. ya .. he should be paid another 7 million this year FOR NOT PLAYING because of the SPOT HE PUT HIMSELF IN .. and then get to keep the 22 or MORE million he got paid last year for a "roster bonus" (the precedent's been set .. if its a signing bonus the clubs can prorate it and get it back . if its a ROSTER bonus its been EARNED by making the roster for that year and cant be taken back .. but i;m sure Vick being the upstanding citizen he is will just volunteer to give it back cause its the right thing to do .. *LOL* .. ) ...

this guy put himself in this position ... and hes gonna be given another 7 mill to just stay away ... great country this america .. *L* ..

paying him is STUPID .. but its how its gonna pan out ..

and if you want to put all your faith in our justice system as far as guilt/innocent goes .. thats your choice .. i;m not DUMB enough to do that .. GUILTY people walk every single day of the week .. and INNOCENT people are locked up on a regular basis ..

OJ was guilty as hell .. Barry took Roids ... and Vick is a dog fighting fool .. REGARDLESS of what our LEGAL SYSTEM says ...

i think your way to smart to think our justice system is the be all end all .. all our justice system does in my eyes .. is decide weather your eligible for jail or not .. and the more $$$$ U have the better chance u have of walking REGARDLESS of your innocence or guilt ...

see Ya .. i'm done here .. Vicks GUILTY AS HELL and hes a POS in my book ..

It's hard to say without seeing the contract, but the Falcons might have a good chance to seek remedy

Smith believes investigators are trying to turn Vick on others

SOUTH BEND, Ind. -- Emmitt Smith thinks federal investigators targeted Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick to get to others involved in an alleged dogfighting operation.

"He's the biggest fish in the whole doggone pond right now so they're putting the squeeze on him to get to everyone else," Smith said Saturday.

Vick and three associates are accused of competitive dogfighting, procuring and training pit bulls for fighting, and conducting the enterprise across state lines. Vick is scheduled to be arraigned Thursday in federal court in Richmond, Va.

Smith, who was enshrined in the College Football Hall of Fame on Saturday along with 19 others, was asked what he thought about the Vick situation. He said he believes federal investigators are trying to pressure Vick to turn on the others.

"Now, granted he might have been to a dogfight a time or two, maybe five times, maybe 20 times, may have bet some money, but he's not the one you're after. He's not the one you're after, he's just the one whose going to take the fall -- publicly."

But Smith also placed some blame on Vick, saying athletes need to realize they have to break ties with some people from their past "because where we're going, it's not for everybody to come with us. You have to learn to cut some of those guys loose. Because the things that they do, we cannot do no more."

Smith, the NFL's career leading rusher, said young athletes have to make decisions about who they associate with because it could harm their careers.

"From an athletic standpoint, from an endorsement standpoint, from an investment standpoint, from a business standpoint, those doors are opening. The question is now, do you want to do the same old junk you've been doing for 18 or 20-something years, or do you want to step into the real world of business and handle your business like you're supposed to handle it?"


Yea sure Emmitt, they targeted him to get others involved. Forget about it happened at his damn house!
I have never liked Emmitt Smith, and this just proves he is damn idiot.

It's a very basic concept Diam.

The FACT is,the NFL is make or break based on perception of the fans. If the league simply "doesn't care" about bad press or publicity,it simply suspends Vick. Because IF they suspend him,they'll recieve just as much scrutiny and bad publicity,maybe even more so,from people like Jesse Jackson,Al Shapton the ACLU and the list goes on.

The cries of "racism because the man hasn't even been convicted of anything" will be all over the media IMO. Not a good thing for the Falcons or the NFL.

If they let him play,people like you who play judge,jury and executioner in your "wisdom" will be raising hell. Animal rights activists will be raising hell and once again,it will not shine a good light on the NFL nor the Falcons.

Whether you like it or not,are willing to admit it or not,look at it objectively or not,doesn't change the facts of the matter.

The NFL and the Falcons do NOT want negative publicity that puts the NFL or the Falcons in a bad light. They want to come up with a solution that looks fair to all parties.

If you look at the simple wording of what players contracts say,I think it's ovbvious. This isn't a direct quote,but I'm certain it's very close.........................................

"A player is not to engage in activities that are deemed detrimental to the NFL"

I think they'll come to some sort of deal that holds them to that same standard. And IMO,an outright suspension before he's convicted could easily result in them doing something that leads to the same thing they are so concerned about.

Bad press and publicity.

JMHO

I think,based on reading the indictment,that he's guilty as hell too. And if so,I want him to be convicted to the fullest extent of the law. No matter how you "percieve" the posts I've written here,I can GARUNTEE that NOBODY on this board has any more disdain,bordering on downright HATRED over what was done to these animals.

NOBODY on this board could possibly HATE fighting Pit Bulls more than I do! It's a VERY personal issue with me. And by my very nature on the subject,NOBODY want to "go off" about it any more than I do!

But I won't untill I see the outcome of all of this. Because I'm not a judge. And considering my close,personal involvement with Pit Bulls on the complete opposite end of the spectrum,would most certainly eliminate me from being a juror.

And I dubt you're a Judge or will be a jurur in this case either. But hey,you're smarter than them anyway,right?

Commentary | Charges reveal the two lives of Vick

By Sally Jenkins
The Washington Post

Apparently the word "defendant" was more tolerable to Michael Vick than the words, "Gee, Mike, you've really changed." Vick was so concerned with staying true to his roots that no amount of paternalistic lecturing from Atlanta Falcons owner Arthur Blank could convince him to dump his old associations.

As a result, there were apparently two Michael Vicks. One was a polished, posterized NFL star. But according to a federal indictment, there was also the low-life, sadistic kingpin of the Bad Newz Kennels known to childhood pals as "Ookie."

There is the suggestion that Vick has landed in all this trouble, indicted on federal charges for running a lurid dogfight operation, because he was trying to, as they say, "keep it real." The suggestion here is that when you get to play a game for a living and call it work, and stand to earn more than $100 million, you are no longer in the realm of "real." You have officially entered the realm of the blessedly "surreal." Vick obviously questioned which realm he really belonged in. Now, a U.S. District Court may decide his realm for him.

The Vick case poses an interesting question. What's escapable? One of the more troubling aspects of Vick's indictment is that it suggests that real change wasn't possible for him, that he never really got away from the place he grew up, that he was doomed by his lousy, violent childhood in the projects of Newport News, Va., to such flawed judgment.

A full-fledged canine horror chamber was found during police raids April 25 and 26 on his 15-acre property in Surry County, Va. Vick maintains he was not aware that dogs were fought to death, tortured, and executed on his property.

Then Vick added an interesting statement: "It's unfortunate I have to take the heat behind it. ... It's a call for me to really tighten down on who I'm trying to take care of. When it all boils down, people will try to take advantage of you and leave you out to dry. Lesson learned for me."

For the sake of argument, let's accept Vick's excuse. Let's set aside the three witnesses cited in the indictment who allege that Vick was on the property, gambled on the dogfights, and ordered dogs executed, including one that was doused with water and electrocuted.

At the very least, Vick is guilty of leading a double life. He had one foot in the corporate boardrooms and one foot in the bad old circles from Newport News, where he grew up amid gunplay. By his own admission, he has taken care of all the wrong people, for fear of being labeled a phony who forgot where he came from.

But if you want a phony, how about a starting NFL quarterback and a huge commercial concern with his own brand-name shoes who tries to act like he's still one of the fellas? Who by day comes on like a business sophisticate who endorses Nike, and who by night bankrolls dogfights. What a silly, pathetic brand of fraud, to pretend to be someone lesser, instead of someone better.

One suggestion being floated is that the Falcons and the NFL press Vick to take a leave of absence while he deals with his indictment. It's not a bad idea. A leave would give him time to sort out something else, too:

The question of who he really is.

I think Vick should still be able to play football. Sure, he should see some serious fines, maybe even an off-season in the slammer---but I don't think he should be kicked out of the league for this.

Bottomline, he was involved in something he shouldn't have been---but in reality, what really was this--he was involved in a bloodsport and some dogs were killed.

Just some dogs.

I understand that people have a damn near natural tendency to respond to the deaths of "man's best friend" with a sort of teeth gnashing and some ugly words. But if you think about it---no humans were hurt--this wasn't assault, rape, or robbery--it was simply the violation of a societal taboo: Don't Abuse Animals, especially ones that occupy a space in the heart of nearly every American.

So by this, I don't think banishment is right for Vick. His crime was stupid and brutal---but it didn't really harm anyone. It sure as hell offended a lot of people though.

I agree, Vick should be allowed to play...on one condition, that he be electrocuted after each loss.

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I do find something a little confusing Shep?

When everyone was concerned and hopefull for the recovery of Barbaro,you dismissed it as "Hey,it's just a horse'.

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It's pretty simple really, and I don't know why you are asking as it is so obvious.....but horses come up lame all of the time in the racing world and are put down. It's nothing new, nor is it illegal to do that to them.

Michael Vick is the same as the 18 year old crack dealer in the other thread.

He is a thug.

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Did you have an apithany? A change of heart? Or do you just value dogs in a much higher regard than horses?

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No
No
No

Apples and oranges.....there is nothing similar at all between the 2 topics.

Phil, I'm looking at the actual case, not your made up scenario's.

And the actual case is alledging electrocution and bashing dogs heads against the concrete...and you don't find anything anti-social about that? There's no bell that rings that tells you this is an act of depravity?

Just because it's not a human being doesn't mean the act isn't criminal.

Well, considering the the length of the NFL season and the time invested in traveling, practice, games, camps, and the off the field meetings, commercials, photo shoots, appearances and so on.

From an availability perspective, when did Vick find the time to be so hands-on in the dog fighting circuit.

I think that right now they are dragging his name through the mud because he is involved in some financial aspect of the operation. I don't think he would have the time to be any more involved than that.

And as for the gruesomeness of the deaths of some of these dogs----well, thats what happens in dogfighting, and I don't think Vick "pulled the trigger" so to speak in the executions. But you know, the executions are what the media is going to stick in your face. Mainly because that is what is going to get the publics feathers ruffled. And now you get all this emotionally charged talk about how horrible Vick is.

If Pacman Jones and the whole Bengals team can find time to break laws, so can Vick.

I have something to say to those people who say "Well Pacman Jones, although never convicted, isnt a first time offender. This is Vicks first time in trouble."

I dont consider this a one time offender. Vick isnt getting in trouble for fighting a dog "ONE TIME". These charges against his are over a period of years. He has been fighting dogs, betting on it, and obviosly training them if he had his own fighting dogs. Also, knowing what was going on, on his own property. This isnt a one time ofense. I believe its investigation since the year 2000.

If you kill two people and get caught for it at the same time, its not a one time ofense. Its TWO counts of murder.

My point is, it wouldnt be his first time getting in trouble if it is more then one charge, and its been happening over the past 7 years.