DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Why is Gregg Williams getting a pass?

of course they have. teams so far cannot run the ball. do you realize how long it has been since a Browns fan could say that. I do not know how to access last yeas stats but I would bet we were bottom 10 in most aspects. we have fixed the rushing defense. you cannot fix everything at once. next offseason we add a couple of corners and a true free safety and this defense will improve dramatically. I

Are you sure teams can not run the ball?

I remember last year when we were leading the league in rushing after 4 games and posters were bragging that we were better w/out Schwartz and Mack.

How did that turn out?

It's a little early to be making such strong proclamations, Keith.

25 points a Game given up.
Teams have been able move the ball on the Browns via run or pass over the past 10 yeas

PFF currently grades McCourty as the 2nd best CB in the NFL, Taylor is listed as the 85th best and Haden is only slightly higher on the list at 71st.

you are right, versatile, it is a small sample size. that is why I qualified my statement with "so far". if the next ten games we give up 200 yds per game rushing I will have to say I was wrong. If on the other hand ten games from now we are top 10 in rushing defense hopefully you will agree that we have built a pretty good rushing defense.
stripper, our pass defense will improve when Garrett is back at full strength and we can get more pressure on the qb. but the real improvement will come next year when we add a real free safety and a couple of young corners to the mix. we have added talent to the d the past two years and we need to add more. but I think we are closer than you give us credit for.

That same Pittsburgh FO gave us a draft pick for Justin Gilbert. They are desperate for CBs and the Haden signing was just another desperate act.

I do agree w/you that we have added more defensive talent. I think this defense will continue to get better in the next few years. I just think we're missing a few important pieces right now.

I'm impressed with the finding and developing of many defensive players. I think GW's crew deserves credit for much of that.

Coley
Ogunjobi
Kindred
Schobert
Ogbah
Burgess

We are ridiculously better at stopping the run since...I don't remember when.

A healthy Garrett and Collins will be interesting to watch. If Taylor was playing this year like he did last year...

Outside of the Jets game, how amny 120 yard games has receivers have against us? Quite a few.

We are developing a good D. Don't forget, for most of this year our best players on D haven't played together due to injuries. They could get better when they get more reps with each other.

Only 2.

One is Antonio Brown, who crushes nearly everyone.

TY Hilton was a pretty bad thing to happen to the defense.

Haden was ranked the worst CB in 4 of the first 5 weeks.

Thanks !

It's still early and maybe Haden will start to play better.

But based on nearly 1/3 of the season let's accept that the FO made agreat decision. I see lots of posts trying to continually divert attention from Hue and Hue's performance to the FO. . . and I think the FO has made some bad mistakes. But lets applaud them when they appear to have got something right.

If I recall Joe flacco threw for 2 TDs and had a QBR or 97 or something, completed 73% of his passes he has not looked anywhere near that against anyone else. In fact, he only has 4 TD on the year, half came against us.

the next week he had a QBR of 12, yes 12.

That's what happens when you have no pass rush and your DB's are mediocre.

Do you have a link to that nonsense? Cause I can tell you first hand Taylor was worse in AT LEAST 2 games this year haden was.

I'm not sure I'd rely on those stats from pff ... matter of fact ... theres no way haden was ranked the worst cb in 4 of 5 weeks ... id make a small wager he wasn't the worst ranked in any week ....

the FO made a mistake ... haden could help us ... we saved 4 mill cutting him .. CHUMP ASS CHANGE ...

The FO made a mistake with him ... but not even close to a big one ... he would have MARGINALLY HELPED ...

He's not an average cb anymore .... hes not very good .... the fact he would help us is a reflection of how bad our corners are as opposed to a reflection of how good Joe is ...

Was he the piece of poop with flies or maggots on it? ... *LOL* ...

I agree with what you said.... My post was mostly sarcasm just because I am so frustrated with some of the posts going round. 0-5 ... i guess i should expect frustration and angst.

If I am reading git correctly, PFF is saying Haden was the worst CB on the Steelers. Not in the NFL. I could buy that - I think he's a below average CB these days and don't see any boost in his speed or ability after his couple down years that were mainly due to injury. I think he's lost a step and he relied on his physical tools more than being a student of the game. I'd have kept him on the team for sure - if for nothing else than a veteran presence and because he always seemed to be a model team mate. . . but I think the reaction from some was that he was still playing at a probowl level. He's far far from that.

Let's Judge the current CB's when they get a little help with pressure on the QB. McCourty just had a really great game. Taylor was pretty decent last year. Average at least. BCC has flashed. I don't think CB is the weakest link.

A lot of people don't like to read into what pff says, but people always ask. They ask because they want their argument supported, but when it doesn't then whatever pff says can be taken with a grain of salt.

Haden was also rated in bottom 5 of the NFL the past 2 seasons with the Browns.

In addition, McCourty was rated the highest CB in week 5.

And yes, of the entire NFL.

We don't miss Haden. Not one for one second.

Week 5 CB grades:

McCourty: 91.6
Patrick Robinson, Phi - 91.4
Kenyon Webster, LAR - 86.4
Jalen Ramsey, Jax - 85.9

I think PFF is the most impartial source of rating and ranking players .... I like their take regardless of whether it supports my opinion or not. Are they perfect? No - but they review the player on their assignment on every play, and I hold a pretty high value on their grades.

Out of interest how is Zeitler rated this season? For that matter what about Pryor with Washington?

Mediocre is generous.

The sarcasm being mixed in makes sense ... the post didn't sound right coming from U ...

I'll be interested to see what Hack says around thanksgiving ... i told him to come back then and give us his take ... hopefully he does it or we won't see him til around christmas when we play them again ... *L* ...

My brother is a stiler fan ... he thinks haden stinks while at the same time thanking me for letting him go cause as bad as he is ... he's top 3 for them ... may even be #1 for them ....

Its all relative my friend ... its all relative ...

We'll have to agree to disagree on Haden and leave it at that ..

I have never once used pff or any other pundit(s) view in an argument either way ... i watch games and form my own opinions ... i can be wrong all on my own I don't need no help with that .... *L*

i do not trust their info because its subjective ... I've watched games before ... then folks post pff's take on a player in it ... and my thought is ... ARE WE TALKING ABOUT THE SAME GAME? ...

PFF serves it purpose for some ... its just not my cup of tea ...

j/c

While some brag about us stopping the run, and so far it seems we're doing a pretty good job, I'm not sure some understand part of the reason why.

We made Pitt. TE Jesse James look like an all pro. We simply can't protect the middle of the field. Now why would your opposition focus on running the ball with such a weakness? Teams game plan to exploit your vulnerabilities. Our opponents aren't going to stop doing that. We have one good CB and a lot of depth at SS without actually having a legitimate FS.

Teams are going to pounce on that. IF and when we can stop that, we'll have to see whether teams can or can't run on us. Until then, they have no reason to.

U make a good point .. no doubt ...

Here's what has me scratching my head though ...

1. Teams have taken their foot off the gas pedal in the 2nd half of games due to the score ...
2. Hue can't run the ball according to some .. one of the reasons given for that is the score ... were to far behind to run ...

See why I'm kinda confused here ....

Don't points 1 and 2 above lead one to believe the other team is running the ball a lot in the 2nd half? .... and if there not scoring in the 2nd half doesn't that mean were stopping it affectively? ...

LOL.......that is classic. Divert attention away from Hue to the FO.

I have family members who are Steeler fans and their friends come over all the time. They don't think Haden stinks at all and laugh at the Browns for cutting him. I don't think the FO got it right. LOL

You do have a point, but I would say the stats don't necessarily support your theory.

The Browns are smack dab in the middle when it comes to attempts against, total and average per game.

I think a stronger indicator of a good rushing defense is average per attempt and we currently sit at #2 in the league at 2.9 yds/att right behind Denver.

Teams are trying to run on us and they simply aren't having their usual success against us.

Good points from both you and device.

Just trying to figure out if your laughing with me or at me. It's not clear.

FWIW, PFF has him rated at 49.9 as the #71 CB and an overall "Poor" rating. I don't wish him ill will, but I'm damn glad he's not on the field for us. JMHO.

Where do they have Taylor rated?

opp. have rushed against us 133 times through 5 games. that puts us at 16th in the league in the amount of times teams have ran against us.

that is 26.6 times per game.

that is a 2.9 avg per rush att.

and an average of 76.6 yards we allowed per game.

not bad imo. an certainly not because teams are "taking their foot off of the gas". or anything like that. we are just doing a good job at stopping the run thus far into the season. let's hope they can keep it up.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?t...USHING_ATTEMPTS

This could go in a number of threads....

We also have more first downs, more rushing yards, and more passing yards than our opponents. And our offense really hasn't been that effective.

Our problem is we can't score points and we turn the ball over. Hence the reason to switch to Hogan. That was one nice thing about Kessler. He didn't turn the ball over.

I started rallying for Hogan to start sept. 19th lol...

Our defense is ranked 5th in the NFL. 5th against the run . Can't remember against the pass but still it's not a terrible defense. They get tired because they are on the field so much

We have also faced some of the worst offenses in the league. The Ravens, Colts, Bengals, and Jets have all been bad (and so have the Steelers).

Football Outsiders' DVOA rankings have us being one of the worst defenses (if not the worst) defense in the league.

DVOA Rankings explained:



http://www.footballoutsiders.com/info/methods

Basically, we don't get stops when we need them, don't prevent TDs in the redzone, and we've played bad teams. That's not a good combo.

The defense has been bad. The offense has been worse. Theoretically a team as young as ours should improve as the season goes along, but I have a feeling that's not going to happen.

Browns vs jets

rush yds. Browns 80, jets 37

pass yds Browns 281(Kizer and Hogan), jets 194

first downs. Browns 22, jets 14

Browns vs cin

rush yds. Browns 33, cin 57

pass yds. Browns 183(Kizer and Hogan), cin 286

first downs. Browns 16, cin 25

Browns vs colts

rush yds. Browns 67, colts 75

pass yds. Browns 242, colts 259

first downs. Browns 25, colts 16

Browns vs ratbirds

rush yds. Browns 58, rats 130

pass yds. Browns 300(kizer and Hogan), rats 217

first downs. Browns 20, rats 24

Browns vs steelers

rush yds. Browns 40, steelers 43

pass yds. Browns 222, steelers 263

first downs. Browns 20, steelers 16

I left out the QB scrambles and just focused on the main RB's 2 and in the case of Cinn. 3 RB's.

Passing yards are just the QB's throwing...in our case sometimes 2 QB's.

looking at these stats I would have to disagree. more like 50/50 or there abouts.

Our defense is ranked 5th in run defense and our pass defense is ranked 14th overall.

I'm not buying our defense sucks just yet.

1. yes we played some poor offenses so far. but we have no one throwing over 300 yds on us yet and only one team ran over 100 yds.

2. 3 teams managed less than 60 yds rushing on us.

How bad can are def. be? yup I've seen some crucial points in games where it counts are let down. that sucks for sure.

but as a whole better than expected without all the starters in. most importantly. Shelton, Garrett, Collins were all out.

Not connecting the dots here. We are getting off the field some; we are giving up points at ends of halves a bunch after quick marches. Not many takeaways, and Jamar Taylor left his door open earlier; Peppers hasn't shown up much. The offense has hurt this D, especially as we try to carry Hue's QB. And it lacked some of the talent it has, and the offense has stunk quite miserably.


I won't give him a pass; that is for special teams who only hurt us when it matters, time after time. Williams is about the only good thing we have. Not much cheering for that alone. An OC would help this D as well.