DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Should the Front Office get a pass?

Ask me in a couple of years if anyone should get a pass. Your question is like asking who should get a pass on something that's only half way built. Ask me when the building is complete.

Yes. And so should Hue.

/End Thread

I agree .. Hue might be able to sway an opinion on equal players with the same cap hit and age but the FO is making the BIG moves. NO head coach lets players go that give him a better chance to win right now. You really think Hue wanted Hayden gone for a 5th rounder, to the STEELERS ? Do some of the moves make sense from a big picture, longer term view? Probably.. But coaches don't like losing, PERIOD. Its REALLY painful doing it the SLOW way through the draft, but if they hit on even HALF the picks we will be better off long term than busting the cap for a year or two only to see them all gone right after.

could you identify those phantom fans who "believe the front office can do no wrong". I think your imagination is running wild.

He's been consulting with Vers ...

I have you blocked, so I refuse to read the question but given the last two years of your posts, don't really need to read it. I know what it says.

The answer is yes and I'll explain.

This is Sashi Brown.


His last name is Brown. He shares this last name with the greatest player that ever played the game.



He also shares it with the greatest coach that ever coached.



His cousin Cleveland has a steady following on Fox.


Speaking of Fox, he also shares a last name with Foxy Brown.



Coincidence? I think not!




This is Paul Depodesta.



You can tell by that physique that he was born and bred a football guy.

In fact he is the illegitimate son of two football parents.




He took the A's all the way to the Stanley Cup!


He was good enough at his job that he convinced the world that 21 jump street flopped because of the writing and not because of the acting.

Now he doesn't have the name that Sashi has, but his name kinda sounds like Desoto and that was a tough freakin car!

I'll leave you with two very important things to ponder about...

What can Brown do for you?

If you think math guys aren't tough, try quadratic equations.


****Sorry it wouldn't let me post any more images after a while. It would have been funnier with them*****

We have a ton of posters questioning Hue, yet it is off-base to question the moves of the FO and ownership.

And the greatest thing is the same clueless wonders who partake in such things have the nerve to bash anyone who dares question the plan.

Luckily, we have you to call out this axis of evil and set the rest of us straight!

Joe Haden was once renowned as one of the NFL's rising stars at cornerback, but the Cleveland Browns released the 28-year-old Wednesday.

NFL Network's Ian Rapoport was the first to report the surprising move, and Nate Ulrich of the Akron Beacon Journal confirmed it.

The Browns later made Haden's release official and issued statements from head coach Hue Jackson and executive vice president Sashi Brown:

30 Aug
Cleveland Browns ✔ @Browns
We've released DB Joe Haden

Details » http://brow.nz/oqM6ld pic.twitter.com/m95dKbctlv
Follow
Cleveland Browns ✔ @Browns
Statements from Hue Jackson and Sashi Brown: pic.twitter.com/flTTrC1bE4
5:01 AM - Aug 30, 2017
View image on Twitter
41 41 Replies 196 196 Retweets 554 554 likes
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Haden also thanked the Browns on Instagram:


CBS Sports' Jason La Canfora first reported Tuesday that the Browns were "aggressively trying to trade" Haden. Following the release, ESPN's Adam Schefter reported the New Orleans Saints and Kansas City Chiefs are "expected to have strong interest" in signing Haden. Meanwhile, ESPN's Josina Anderson reported the Dallas Cowboys might have interest depending on how much money Haden is seeking.

Follow
Ian Rapoport ✔ @RapSheet
Joe Haden is getting $4M guaranteed from #Browns — with offsets. If he settles in at less than $4M, new team pays him minimum, CLE pays rest
6:52 AM - Aug 30, 2017
48 48 Replies 507 507 Retweets 892 892 likes
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Ian Rapoport ✔ @RapSheet
What does that mean? Suddenly, Joe Haden could play for any championship-level team for a bargain while still making his $4M from #Browns
6:53 AM - Aug 30, 2017

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2672848-joe-haden-cut-by-browns-despite-trade-rumors

Not really sure how we got a 5th rounder from the squeelers if we just released him?

Of course, in a league where cornerbacks are among the most sought-after players after quarterback and pass rusher, there will no doubt be interest in Haden's services. The Eagles and Steelers are two teams that come to mind, and according to Haden's agent, Drew Rosenhaus, the cornerback won't be out of work long.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/brown...-to-find-trade/

you sure we traded him for a 5th round pick? I am just not finding that anywhere.

Everything I read, we just flat out cut him.

We cut him, and he chose to sign with the Steelers. (who have not been, coincidentally, not the same team they were in the past)

We cut him, but that actually makes the move look even worse.

I do know that the Steeler fans that I talk to are thrilled w/him and have been rubbing it in that "the Browns cut him."

Nobody gets a pass. Hue, Front Office, Talent roster... no one.

I watch the Steelers every week. The 'rubbing-in' is that Haden is just as ineffective there as he was here and the Steelers sent us a draft pick for Justine Gilbert.

Everyone gets a pass...for now. But performance evaluation - like father time - waits for no one.

The plan was formulated by the Front Office, with the consent of the Haslams. Since it is their plan, and the plan is still in it's early stages, there is a pass of sorts. I realize that fans want to win NOW. That the fans are tired of losing and want the winning to start NOW. The plan, however, is a long term plan, not short term. So there is no pass, there is only the long term plan, and the front office is sticking to it.

I get all that, but we're not even a competitive team. Last year we fought in games, this year (with more money spent on free agents, some free agents left to go, experience for last year's rookies and the addition of new draft picks), we're a worse football team it looks like.

It's a major issue in wanting to have faith in the "plan" there.

Passes for everyone!

I feel dirty responding to this thread...but I will anyway...then shower.

I have a set-up at my office where a group of people gather to watch the games - six at one time. The top middle TV and sound are the Browns. The top left is Bengals and the top right is Steelers. The Ravens get one of the bottom TVs and we all kind of vote on the other two games.

There are usually 6+ Browns fans and 3+ Steeler fans in attendance. An occasional Bengal fan shows up. These Steeler fans are good, knowledgeable, far-from-obnoxious types. I'm yet to have a not-obnoxious Bengal fan in attendance.

When Hogan comes in the game, I always get the questions: "Who is that guy and why isn't he starting?" Then comes the..."Man, you guys look so much better with that guy at QB".

When the game is over, I get this one. "You guys find unbelievable ways to lose games...but it looks like you are finally getting some talent on that team."

I like Pit's answer. I will add that Hue is in focus because we are in season at this point. The season is the time for coach discussion. Off season it swings more towards the FO.

I'm not sure why they need a pass ... quite frankly I'm confused as to why Hue needs a pass ... actually this is very simple ... I'd make a decent sized wager most of this is simply out of FRUSTRATION and DISSAPOINTMENT!

Both groups have made mistakes ... there in year two of the re-build and year 1 was spent tearing it down and moving down in the draft to aquire more picks in future years ...

I'm really not sure why the FO or Hue needs a pass at this point ... other then the frustration and dissapointment of the fans ....

Hopefully Hogan can improve the qb play enough that we can win a few games and everyone will settle down ...

There is plenty of positives and plenty of places to point to improvement ... folks are having a hard time finding them through all the losses and the frustration that brings ... one things for sure ... no one around here is being accused of wearing rose colored glasses right now .... *LOL* ...

Both coaches and front office have done good and bad things.

I believe based upon only the defense, both on what they have done and their talent level, I would give them time to build.

The defense has shown real potential. Hopefully the offense will catch up to the defense.

Bottom line is the FO and Hue, and Williams - and every person in the organization needs to be held accountable.

We're in year 2 of a total tear down and rebuild. Everyone's made mistakes along the way and we're worse this year than I thought we'd be. . . . or rather we've continued to find ways to lose despite being in a position to perhaps win some games - and that has me frustrated and somewhat angry when I fly up and pay money to attend a game.

I don't blame Hue more then the FO and I don't blame the FO more than Hue.....

There seems to be a movement to divert discussions away from talking about Hue's performance .... but to me it makes perfect sense. The FO predominantly is active in the off season: resigning players, FA's, the draft etc .... that's when we sit and talk about every move they make or don't make. Every day. In depth. We didn't talk about Hue in the off season because there are no games being played, he wasn't under the spotlight. Now it's football season - games are being played. Hue is in action and the FO is mostly silent. With games played every week and disappointing losses and questionable play calling or clock management. . . . why wouldn't the discussion focus on Hue and his management of those games, those time outs and game day decisions???

The two aren't mutually exclusive - one of the great things hindering Hue is the talent available to him. It's not like he took over the Patriots and suddenly Brady looks like a bum. But in every discussion about Hue I think most rationale posters are acknowledging the challenge of playing a rookie QB - and that's because of choices made by the FO... our WR is chronically bad, again down to the FO. Again - been mentioned and discussed. The fact that Hue is getting so much support and posters behind keeping him for year 3 is because everyone acknowledges he's playing with less talent.

No-one deserves a free pass. But again - early year 2 and it was a complete tear down last year.

A lot this "frustration" is coming from guys who thought were were going 8-8 or 9-7 or 10-7. Go over to the prediction thread and see which ones are the most upset and what they predicted. I would bet the mostly aligned with higher (unrealistic) expectations.

Coincidence? I think not. Every year some of you guys get so hyped up for a team that just isn't there yet. We need time, and we are moving toward the right place, but its gonna take longer than most of you MMQB types want.

Can the Front Office catch? Cuz I like when our guys catch passes...


One "fact" you have wrong is that Hue has no control over the talent level. Hue has some say with players especially at quarterback. The Front Office and Hue work in unison to find the players Hue needs to make his system work. It would pretty silly for the front office to give Hue players that don't "fit" the offense Hue is trying to run.

I also don't like the question, what has the front office done for Hue. It implies that we have two separate entities (which we do not) instead of a collaborative effort from both.

You hit the nail on the head. We are an inexperienced bunch. This is probably our downfall. But I think they felt this was necessary to change the culture of the team and organization.

I don't believe the intent to save cap space is an attempt to save money. I think our goal is to find some young players and develop them into OUR players. Unfortunately, the NFL doesn't have a developmental league such as MLB or NHL or NBA, it's simply just called College.

I think our front office has spent a lot of time evaluating, well, value. And I think they've been spot on. For instance, guys like Schwartz and Pryor. Both thought they were worth more on the open market than we were offering and they were wrong. Schwartz even tried to return when he realized we had the best offer.

Our attempt at saving cap space now means we can sign some of these young talents to long term deals....keeping our own. That's what this is all about. Those who complain about lack of spending, or that we cut our expensive players for "cheaper, lesser" talent to save a buck are simply not paying attention.

We most certainly could have won more games in 2016. And I believe we could have won games already this season. We had a rookie start at QB for half the season last year. And we had a rookie start at qb for all 5 games this season. Of course we are going to lose games. I think the plan isn't to lose games and get higher draft picks, despite what most posters want to believe. That is simply not the right way to build a franchise. You still need to win SOME throughout the process. I think we are in need of victories even though we are still "rebuilding."

There is talent on the field to win games. No one here asking Hue to win a Super Bowl in year 2, but I do think people expect to look like an actual football team and actually win a few games. I think Hue is the difference between 1 win and 5 wins, while the talent on the field is the difference between 5 wins and 10 wins....

So really the question should be "Just what has Hue done for the front office?"

That chart says a lot. It says we need time to develop our players and get that much needed experience. We're not even halfway through this rebuild. We still have a load of picks in next years draft as well as another FA period. Then those new players have to mesh with the guys we already have. It's a good 4 years whether we like it or not.

Very well stated mgh888.
By no means have either party been perfect, but I will say Hue's mistakes stick out more due to the amount of losses that have piled up over the last decade plus.

There is no doubt that very few coaches would have won more than 3 games last year with that roster. However, the roster is better this year and I do not feel an expectation of 4-5 wins is unrealistic. Maybe after this 0-5 start it is not so realistic. But prior to the start of the season I genuinely feel 4-5 wins were possible. We could easily have had 2 wins if Hogan would have been named the starter at the beginning of the year.

I feel The Browns have managed to give games away for many a year prior to this FO or coaching staff, and because of this fact it is very difficult for a passionate fan base to continue give a pass after the losses continue to mount.

For the most part I believe most posters on this forum understand what this FO is doing and why we are where we are at. There can definitely be some nit picking, which I bet even happens with the Patriots, but for the most part most fans are aware of the situation of the tear down and are willing to give both the FO and Coaching Staff at least 3 years to show they are on the right track.

However, as the losses mount and emotions are shown Hue definitely gets criticized far more during the season. I will say if Hogan ends up being not much better than Kizer, a lot of the criticism of Hue will lessen.
I also feel many people on this thread believe Hue would greatly benefit from an OC. Not because he can't do the job, but because there is so much on his plate right now that many of us think he can not cover all his bases when it comes to in-game situations and clock management. This IMO has been his greatest flaw as a coach.

I do believe we are on the right path. I can see the talent. But we are the youngest team in the league and have a ton of picks and cap space in our future.

The FO can not trade back this draft. We are loaded with picks. Form a plan stick to it and have the greatest draft in Cleveland Browns history. If this does not happen, I think we will see a lot of people begin to question Sashi and co. much more than now.

I will say this. The last 10 years of being a Browns fan have prepared me for the last two seasons. If last year would have happened in 2010 I would have probably had a stroke or just killed myself.

I was hoping for 4-5 wins .... no I anticipated 4-5 wins. I was hoping for more but I recognize the difference.

I think it's fair to say that with a non-rookie QB playing close to average or slightly below average .... we'd have won two games so far this season. We'd all feel a lot better about that and the angst and frustration would be less all round.

I think we have a long way to go in order to grade the last 2 drafts. The first draft the FO was only just put together - they passed on Wentz and that is going to be a marker that will follow the FO 'forever' ... this last draft is really early to to even guess at.

Do the fans & media get a pass for constantly whining 21 games into a total tear down/rebuild? Can they be held accountable for not holding their water longer than a year? How many times will they do the same thing over and over, crying about continuity, then crying for a new coach and FO, crying for a QB, then crying again when perfection doesn't happen within 18 months? They should all be fired! Fire them all!

Seriously, there must be something else to talk about.

This is magic.

Can ya'll imagine if we had ownership that was as patient with Browns staff as ESPNCleveland has been patient with Tony Grossi?

Actually, I take that back. That's too much continuity in his situation.

Amen brother! Way too many excuses!!! Don't trust anyone with this record for the last 2 years. But Hue is the main reason. Get a coach Jimmy and Dee!!! Please! Find an offensive freak with cajones!!!

And what happens when they don't work out within your fifteen minute attention span?!!!!!

No they shouldn't get a pass

infact the Front Office and Jackson need to be let go at years end...I have seen enough to know they won't turn things around.

our Drafts with Brown and Depodesta have been AWFUL...we have ONE player you hear that ONE player that would start on another NFL team that they have drafted in the last two years(Garret) Players like Wentz were not good enough to play for the Browns but somehow Gary Coleman was? You kidding me.

I don't want Brown or Depodesta any where near our draft picks next year.

contrary to popular beleif, The Browns job IS THE MOSt ATTACTIVE JOB opening in the NFL....look at the amount of cvap space and draft picks we have...a guy like Gruden, Cowher, Billik, etc could come in here and turn things around in a year....we would be .500 football team year one and in the playoffs year two with someone like Ozzie Newsome running our Front Office and a quality coach like Gruden or someone similiar coaching the show.

Depodesta and Brown are inept and need to be shown the door, and Jackson play calling, game management, and gameplans are just terrible...forcing your rookie QB to throw the ball 30 times a game is not a recipe for success its a recipe for disaster...

Lacks the skill for tough negotiations? Oh my goodness what are you even talking about? We negotiated fairly well and hit their market value on point, just because they or you felt they deserved more money doesn't mean they lack the skill for tough negotiations.

Our WR group isn't as bad as a lot of people make it out to be... and I'd be willing to bet they didn't ignore Hue on WR and that Hue had input into the WR. I'd guess that Corey Coleman would also fit Hue's mold. I'm also sure if Hue wasn't confident in Coleman, Britt, Higgins, and Louis that we would have addressed that. I've gotta think our D-Coordinator had some input into Britt as well. They were on the same team last year. I think it's too early to make a call on Coleman being a bust.

And I think it's funny when people assume Sashi Brown is THE talent evaluator. He is not.

This might be one for the archives, lol!!

It's rather ironic that you are bringing up "a movement to divert discussions away from talking about Hue's performance" in a thread about the Front Office.

LOL man, you're killing me here today.