DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Roger pulls a 180

It appears the fans have spoken and Roger got the message...it's about time. Just stand up. Protest some other way...it's not difficult.

Roger and the owners should thank Trump for taking on this issue (giving them an 'out') and apologize for their ridiculous memo/letter suggesting that Trump was out of line or unknowing.

"Protest some other way"

Here's the problem, Willie... in the 60's, peaceful "protest" marches were met with tear gas, batons and attack dogs. Find another way. In the 68 Olympics, a silent peaceful protest was met with negative propaganda, bad press, and the suggestion: find another way. In the 90's, Chief Darryl Gates' LA police force was exonerated of charges in the Rodney King incident. SCLA erupted in violence. Obviously, find another way.

So... marching is deemed inappropriate. Standing quietly with a raised fist is deemed inappropriate. Kneeling is deemed inappropriate. Apparently, it's more difficult than folks would think.

So- I'm asking you this not to be combative or belligerent. It isn't a rhetorical question.

What form of protest would you suggest?
What form of protest would be considered acceptable?

Because from what I've seen in the last 50 years, NO form of protest is considered appropriate or acceptable. And that is simply unconstitutional.

Thoughts?

It is so nice to have Leadership in America once again.

$$$$$$$$$ Talks ... It was only a matter of time and lost income ... JMHO

Leadership to you means ignoring the meaning behind the protest and changing the narrative so the mindless minions get riled up ‘that them there black folk are disrespektin’ Murika and need to shut up and entertain me’.
You gobbled up your fearless leader’s garbage and smiled like a good boy while doing it. Too ignorant to know better.
Bravo.

Dude's been doing this for 50 years... "look at the shiny object"
(while his hand is in their pockets)

Trump U
Trump vodka
Trump steaks

PT Barnum was right.

From what I read, Goodell/the NFL may offer the players an in-season platform to give awareness to the work the players are doing. If that is accurate, it would be a very significant opportunity.

Patriotic fans get the satisfaction of everyone standing for The Star-Spangled Banner; the players get an in-season platform to promote their social justice causes with aid from the most popular sports league in America.

That seems to me like a very generous compromise. However, I have a suspicion that this will not be good enough for many of the players, and this saga is far from over.

Well thank you for responding.
That seems like a decent step for all... one that I'd participate in.

Any suggestions of your own?

How about every team has 2, 4, 10 players ride along with cops for a shift? It would have to be in the off season probably.

Let them see it from a cop's perspective.

And have every police department have 2-4, whatever number, of cops hang out in bad neighborhoods - no badge, no gun, to see what .........well, hell, it's about blacks, so have them hang out in black neighborhoods, no badge, no gun, so they can see things from THAT perspective?


Course, this isn't about the anthem, or the flag. Just ask M&M.......it's about Trump.

(I don't think m and m, m in m.........whatever - Marshall Mathers...is a guy I'd want speaking for me. But, whatever.)

I would like to see the players more clearly articulate what exactly it is that they are after. So far I've heard things such as equality and social justice, two good concepts that we can all get behind.

However, it is the details that need to be hashed out. What, specifically, are they talking about? What changes need to be made? Inquiring minds would like to know.

These seem like suitable efforts.

I have a thought.. you left off the fact that there is an underlying theme that if you are poor and you protest, you are really just whining about the fact that you weren't willing to work hard enough to make the system work for you..

If you are rich and you protest, you should stop bad mouthing a system that DID work for you.

It ranks right up there with the "why don't these athletes do more" argument. If they do more and don't tell anybody, then nobody knows and they get accused of not doing anything. If they do more and it gets into the media, then they are only doing it for the attention and the good PR..

I will admit, I have to hand it to them, they have done a fabulous job of creating "no win" situations..

Thanks for your observation, DC

Welcome to my world.

I like both you and DC, but I think you are both being narrow-minded on this topic and are looking at things w/a slanted view.

Trying to act like these NFL players are real activists is extremely short-sighted.

My view may be slanted as you say, but it's informed and influenced by the events in my life. You are asking or requiring me to see this issue from your vantage point. I can't do that. It would require me having lived your life as regards police interaction. I didn't have that luxury. One of my very best friends fared much worse than I.
I'm not sure what you expect from me, but perhaps you should ask yourself if your expectations might be a little steep? Maybe?

I mean... how close to perfect must I be to meet with your approval?

Is this something that requires agreement?

I am sorry if I offended you, Clem. I hold you in very high regard.

I realize that we have lived different lives. Can you put yourself in my life? It works both ways, Clem.

Heck, I bet I grew up in much tougher circumstances than you did. So, what does that mean? Do you still have more reasons to gripe? Sorry, but I don't think so.

I think that protest is great. I think that questioning things are great. Heck, if you have ever read my posts, you should know that I like to bring up an opposing point of view to at least get people to think. Most of the time, people act like that is a bad thing.

Clem, I fully understand what an open mind and a contrarian point of view is.

I am just telling you that I don't believe that the intent of most of these protests by NFL players is legit. In fact, I think it is divisive. I think most are ingrates who do not appreciate the opportunities that this country has afforded them.

I am not asking you to agree w/me. However, it is my hope that you at least accept my one or two takes after you guys post multiple opposing takes.

I mean............it's okay to disagree, right? To express our views, right?

And btw........I think there are much better ways to protest things. For example.........look at LeBron. The dude has started all kinds of organizations to help his community. He speaks out all the time on social media. He has some sort of TV thang going on. He is well spoken w/out alienating the people he is asking to change.

Do you get that, bro? Do you NOT get that asking people to change while alienating them is pretty damn stupid?

The billionaire owners are white...the Commish is white. The majority of players (70%) in the NFL are black men. Sure...bottom line might be losing revenue or viewership going down, the almighty dollar etc. but, owners telling the players they can't peacefully assemble and that they have to stand or else is symbolically racist. Anybody who can't see that is blind.

Anybody who thinks their initial protest was about the military are also blind. Staying neutral is giving a voice to the oppressor....the players have chosen to speak up and now here the white owners are discussing suppressing their voice.

I think you make some good points but are completely misinterpreting what went down in this situation.

The "white" NFL owners initially said FU to Trump. They were blabbering on and on about how they respected their players' stances and how they denounced Trump.

It was freaking canned. Rodger made a comment and all the other owners who commented parroted his comments. Here are the comments from the Haslams:



I call BS!

Trump threatened the NFL w/monetary moves and all of a sudden they are asking players to stand during the anthem. Phony, phony, phony.

They thought they had public support, but they mistook some dumb ass media types as the voice of the general public and Trump just kicked their ass.

The NFL is as phony and full of crap as it gets!

The NFL is a business. They are all in, as long as it benefits them. Once it doesnt they will end it. I got in a giant argument with Swish about this a while back.

Everyone who thinks the NFL somehow owes these players free publicity is deluded.

Nobody is stopping them from protesting in their own community where it matters most.

But try to make a political statement on a business' buck and free publicity? HA

I'm not "misinterpreting" anything. It is plain as day that this is symbolic racism...the white owners are apparently going to discuss this very issue at their meeting (standing). Jerry now threatens "whoever doesn't stand wont play". The fact that the President is weighing in is sad. Doesn't he he have other things to do? How about the people in California who have been killed and lost their homes? Has he said anything about that or was he too busy tweeting about the NFL? What about the fact that our VP used tax dollars for a stupid PR stunt?

Yeah, okay. LOL

You are completely ignoring that those same "white owners" were backing the black players just a couple of weeks ago.

Keep your head in the sand. This is about money and not about what is right and wrong.

Yea, ok Vers. Stay blind and keep your head in the sand about racism in this country.

Btw, has anybody told you that "LOL" text speak thing looks ridiculous coming from an adult?

Btw---has anyone told you that making a personal insult in a discussion makes you look childish?

My head is not in the sand. I know racism exists and have made many posts on the topic. Then again, I also think that there are racists in all races.

The NFL players argument is a farce in my opinion. Am I allowed to express that in your "liberal" point of view?

I have a question for you. You are a teacher...........do you make fun of every student who opposes your political and social issues? You really seem to have a problem w/looking at things from both sides. I find that very disturbing.

Funny how you point that out in the first sentence and then proceed to make personal insults. Now that says it all. "LOL"!

Have a good night, Vers.

The NFL players argument is only a "farce" as you do not see nor understand what the issue is that they are protesting. People just want to see it as "disrespecting" the flag. Yet, it has nothing to do with that nor the military. Can't you see that? The flag represents a system and a country that is fundamentally racist and the oppressors do not like the fact that people are speaking out against it.

The fact that they are wealthy pro sports players has no bearing on this protest. I read that argument in here a lot too. That is fundamentally missing the point. They have a voice...they are speaking out for everybody including those who do not have a voice.

"The right to peacefully assemble".

That is what they are doing yet, people call it a "farce".

You have a right to peacefully assemble in a public space, such as the street.

You have ZERO right to protest on someone's private property or place of business.

So all the tears about the nfl putting the hammer down is weak. You never had a right in the first place,

Go have your pity party in the street.

Go have your pity party in your community, where it actually matters.

I didn't think you would address the real issues of the situation and would instead attempt to make it personal.

I'll try again.

Are you going to deny that the "white" NFL owners and the commish came out en force against Trump?

Are you going to deny that those same "white" people all had similar messages about respecting their players' rights to express their freedom of speech and voice their concerns about social issues?

Are you going to deny that once Trump threatened them w/a monetary punishment, that they quickly changed their stance?

Look man.......I get you don't like me and I don't really care. But, you need to shut the hell up about me not understanding racism. I guarantee I have dealt w/the crap than you have.

There are ways to battle racism. And there are ways to not battle racism. Alienating the people you want to change is freaking ignorant. I get that you don't get that. But, I do get it and I will continue to fight the good fight to "constructively" battle racism and dismiss idiotic attempts that only further the divide!

The country is fundamentally racist? What a load of crap that is.

Keep telling yourself that, keep trying to drum it in the media and when 2018 rolls around you'll most likely lose more seats and Trump will win again in '20.

You really don't know who you're dealing with.

Ok Vers. I forgot you have experienced more hardship than Clem, "dealt with more crap" than I have etc. etc. etc. We get that you have walked and crossed more bridges than the average man as you spare no time repeatedly mentioning it in numerous threads. It's very odd you seem to know so much about all of our lives, all of our backgrounds, our life experiences and all the roads we have travelled.

Are you telling me that the white slave owners who drafted "all men are created equal" believed that to be the case with the slaves they owned?

If so, then why were they kept as slaves?

LOL............nice response.

You are ignoring the issue and wanting to win some argument. That is what "teachers" do.

Oh, and I don't use purple.

I don't know if you know this, BUT IT'S TWO THOUSAND SEVENTEEN!

Not you, not swish, not Clem (although if anyone could, it would be his Clemoquence) is gonna tell me that we're not galaxies away from as bad as it was back then!

Do we still have work to do? Sure, but it's not as bad as you or anyone else wants to make it out to be.

And it's sure as hell not as good as I thought cause I certainly didn't think there were enough white supremacists left to fill a small coffee shop let alone cause the stir that was Charlottesville.

And yes, Jefferson wanted to end slavery with the Declaration, but if he did that the southern states would've voted against revolution.

I think each person with something to protest needs to find their own way to do it...individually or collectively or both. When one must insult another group/cause to make their protest, they lose all credibility with me. Insulting someone/something in a debate is no way to advance the narrative. I'm protesting the NFL right now. All of my Browns gear is in a box...possibly on it's way to Berea. I don't watch primetime NFL games anymore. I DID NOT - for example - put a sign in my yard that says anyone who wears NFL gear is a Nazi or those who watch primetime games are traitors to the nation.

Some things are off-limts...to me...the anthem is one of them. The anthem is an honor to our country and the people who fought/fight for this country. It is not a song about how everything is just dandy for everyone.

It seems to me that people wish to pick and choose when "feelings getting hurt" actually means something.

People have different sensibilities. When some feel hurt, the other side says they're crying liberal tears, they need a safe space and are too sensitive. They wish to diminish them for what they don't feel hurt about themselves.

Then when they feel hurt, suddenly those rules don't apply to them and they're somehow more special or their cause is somehow greater.

I really don't agree with the way that they are going about this protest. But then, I don't feel I need to or have to.

United they stand. Divided they kneel.

Anybody know the story with Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego?

Yes and good point.

SWISH

I pulled this off the other thread ...

obviously the owners care about their bottom line, but ethically it still doesn't make it right. it is absolutely a suppression by people, which sucks because there are people who want this to happen and don't even watch football on a regular basis.

Is it suppression by people or consumers excorsing their rights? .. technically its both ... thats just the reality of it ...

It seems like your suggesting folks that disagree with the nfl players kneeling are just suppose to sit idly by and eat what we consider a crap cake from them? .. we don’t have rights? ...

Or are u suggesting the nfl continues to let the protest continue while they lose more and more fans and money by the week ...

Those are the only two choices your left with ...

PS. There’s also a million other ways they could make their voices heard that wouldn’t pee half the country off ...

WHY DOES IT HAVE TO BE KNEELING DURING THE ANTHEM? ...

and that sucks because as a minority, i'm seeing guys who look like you ticked off at us way more than the neo nazi's and pro confederate flag people.

A wee bit of sensationalism here bro ...

Lots of people that look like me were there beating the crap out of the kker’s ... matter of fact someone that looks like me got killed protesting the kker’s ...

End of the day Swish .... next kkk rally will be SQUASHED IMMEDIATELY like the one on Charlostville ... if they held them weekly like they did football games no one would even notice the nfl players and their protest ...

IMO you making a major stretch at best with your correlations here ... I don’t really understand ...

you understand that, right? and then the reasoning to suppress us doesn't even make sense.

no, i just said i don’t understand ... *LOL* ... i don’t consider this suppression ... so were going to have a real hard time finding common ground here ... were coming at it from way different angles ... but thats OK with me ... if we shut up now neither of us can learn or understand ... there may only be a 1% chance we understand on this one but its 0% if we don’t continue the dialogue ...


disrespect the military?

Diam, do you know your history? do you know how black vets have been treated historically in this country? did you know that the same vets y'all claim to care about, we had veterans of color being LYNCHED after WW1.

Yes sir ..

Where was the respect for those black WW2 vets? oh yea, people who looked like YOU decided they were good enough to die for this country, but not good enough to go to school with your children.

DISGRACEFUL ... the negative adjectives are endless and not harsh enough for the way blacks have been treated historically in this country ...

where was the "respect" for the military then? where was the "Respect" for the military when those guys came home from Nam and got called baby killers? where was the "respect" while we have homeless soldiers on the streets, vets struggling to receive proper medical treatment, and so many with mental problems?

where was the "Respect" for the military when half the country believed in that Jade Helm BS? it went from "respect" to "omg these jack booted thugs are trying to take us over" in an INSTANT.

^^^^^^ all that lets me know that this crap about disrespecting vet is exactly that: crap.

Once again .. DISGRACEFUL ... our treatment of vets is one of the 4 or 5 big reasons i voted for Trump ...

I was around during nam ... i didn’t understand that one little bit then and i still don’t til this day ... the epitome of displaced anger ...

I'm a vet, and I don't feel disrespected whatsoever.



but guess what Diam? the same people who make that claim and say their patriots have disrespected my service all the time.

two people already questioned my service and whether i actually cared about america.

but that's not disrespectful? who do you think I see as being more disrespectful?

I’m one of them ... back then both of us said things just to get under the others skin .. u weren’t exactly nice to me ... IMO, we both got what we deserved back then ... and i am not proud at all for how i behave ...

I owe u an apology for that one ... i was wrong and i apologize, i’m Sorry about that ...

Obviously your going to view the folks that attack U way more disrespectfully ....

the flag means jack crap. a flag can mean whatever anybody wants it to mean.

I agree that it means different things to different people ... so why would u want to offend people that see it the way i do when theres a million other ways to go about this? ... thats another thing i don’t really understand here ...

that flag represents slavery and white supremacy. yet to people who look like YOU, that flag means heritage and culture.

culture of what, Diam?

Not sure if your talking about the american or confederate flag ...

If i never see a confederate flag again I’ll be a happy man ... when i see one i don’t understand how u can have so much hate for someone based on how they look and i wonder how many times the actual flags get destroyed or thier windows broke ...

being down in SC now i see one maybe once a month on average ... back in ny i never saw any .. *L* ...

U know .. i think i’ll Start asking the locals what the flag means to them and why it means so much ... just out of curiousity as to the range and honesty of the answers i get ...

To me the american flag ... its not a culture .. to me it represents all the GOOD and BAD in this countries history and today ... we have WARTS as a country ... Slavery goes beyond being just a WART .. but its part of who we are as a country ... u can’t just bury it or pretend it doesn’t exist ...

you guys claim that nfl players are disrespecting the flag, but NOT ONE PERSON on this board said a damn thing about this during charlottesville:

The pic didn’t transfer ...

Charlottesville went way beyond the flag .. way beyond ... MUCH MUCH BIGGER ISSUES there ...

Actually everything that happend there was about that flag since that flag is the biggest symbol of slavery ... all the counter protesting and all the violence were in a way directed right at that flag ...

I’ll reply to the rest later ... one last thing if you’ve read this far ...

A lot of folks that look like U agree with a lot of folks that look like me in this case ...

And vice versa ....

Then we won’t ever see eye to eye on this. We are on two different sides, and that’s fine.