DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Should the Front Office get a pass?

I admit we could use some help at WR even if Corey was healthy but they didn't look too bad when Kevin was at QB. It could just be timing but let's see how they do with KH as our starting QB.

For a guy that answered a thread about Hue's strengths and weaknesses with a request for the same thread to be created for the FO -- and no comment or discussion whatsoever on the topic .... I'd say you are the one killing it. It seems to be your stock answer to any thread at the moment. Hence my comments. Kinda of ironic for me to point out that your posts are at the moment constantly off topic - and me noting that in my replies .... and you calling me on that.

I agree. I said that earlier. This is coach season. A few months from now it swings more towards the FO.

Hue doesn't draft players or sign free agents. Sashi and crew don't coach games.

Both the FO and Hue need at least five years.

I would say 3 years to show actual improvement and a starting QB we can all believe in. I am hopeful Kizer will show improvement as Goff has this season. If we continue to show no improvement this year or next year...we will need to move forward. 1-20 at the moment and Kizer is now benched and Kessler ("Trust Me on this pick") has been inactive this season. Not to mention Wentz is lighting it up and Watson is currently looking like a stud.

I loved the Hue hire and I REALLY want him to succeed. I will defend him and champion him but, if we continue to lose this year and Wentz, Watson, Prescott etc. (all guys we could have taken) continue to do well AND we have a losing year next season and Kizer is yet another failed QB experiment... then I think 5 years will be pushing it.

Let's get something straight. Real straight.

The blaming of Hue is BS! The FO and owner blew this thing up to the bones. Expecting Hue to win w/this roster is beyond idiotic.

I am willing to give the FO plenty of time to turn things around, but I am NOT going to sit idly by while guys like act like Hue is making all these mistakes.

Hue is NOT the reason we are losing games. The roster is inexperienced and not talented enough to win at this particular point in time.

I am going to continue to defend Hue no matter how much guys like you get on my case. Is that clear? I do not want to freaking start over.........AGAIN!

I don't think Hue is the main reason we are losing, but it sure is frustrating to watch a team like the Jets (who many said had the worst roster in the NFL) win some games while we flounder.

We are all frustrated.

But blowing things up again will not help.

Agreed. 110% I am frustrated. Not because I expected wins, but because I wanted to see improvement. I need to be patient cause this is a complete rebuild.

You should see the Game Day forum on Sunday afternoons. When I'm not getting the Browns on TV, I go there hoping to get some insight. Lately it's mostly been 'Fire the Coach! Fire Sashi!'

Update on the Tilsonburg Mauler: I thought I spotted Austin Pasztor on the Falcons field goal unit a Sunday or two ago, checked it out and yes: he caught on with an NFL team.
he was pretty solid last year at RT and I hoped the FO would keep him as a guard option, even as a backup.

Like it or not, Hue is actually a big reason why we are 0-5.

Like it or not............The FO and the owner are the reason we are 0 and 5!

And of course Hue.

No, I don't think so.

I was not a Hue lover and had people actually accuse me of hating the guy, but this record is not on Hue.

Y'all need to stop!

The fans saying this is "a complete rebuild" is just a coping mechanism. This team is screwed up beyond epic proportions. It's the only team in the history of the NFL to tear down a 3 win team. Does that even make any sense? No other team in the league needs to tear anything down to get better. Only the Browns. They're are clowning the fan base.

You take the QB when he's there for the taking. QB changes everything. Everything. Makes every single player and coach on the team better. You don't need a thousand draft picks to compete in the NFL. You don't need to tear anything down. You simply draft where you are scheduled to draft and when that spot happens to be high enough to take a top flight QB prospect you do it.

The guys running the show are idiots. Why on earth would anyone think 2018 is going to be better when you still haven't found a QB? YOU CANNOT COMPETE IN THE NFL WITHOUT A QB!

It's so simple it's ridiculous. Philly gave up draft picks to get their QB. Gave up those precious draft picks. They are 4-1. Think about that. 4-1. Doug freaking Pederson is their coach. 4-1. But fans have bought the tear down argument hook, line, and sinker. The fan base got played by Sashi and Co. It will not get better until those guys are out.

Think about how dangerous it is going to be trusting them in next year's draft. They will likely commit to Kizer and trade out of #1. To get more picks. I don't think I can stomach that.

Assigning 100% blame to the FO is idiotic.

But you know that.

Keep on with the crusade though! Dig those heels in!

What the hell are you talking about? I am not assigning 100% blame on the FO. I am simply debating the people who are placing all the blame on Hue.

Get freaking real!

Trotting kizer out there before he was ready, is the biggest why we are currently sitting at 0-5 imo. Kid was far from ready to do that.

No one said anything about putting all the blame on Hue except you.

Your act is old.

You consistently bash Hue and defend the FO.

It isn't real hard to figure out your "message."

I am pretty tired of your crap. It's probably best we stop conversing, because it will probably get ugly. I don't trust you to be honest and you obviously despise my opinions.

Have a good one.........

kizer in and we punt. hogan in and we get a td. it shows how it take that one qb to turn this thing around.

its like with kizer in and hue is the worst coordinator ever..

That is not really true.

I'm sorry you feel that way and I have no ill feelings toward you.

My opinion hasn't changed. No one is asking the for this team to be 5-0. But this team has talent to win games, not a lot, but some. And when we lose games because the head coach makes bonehead decisions, that has very little if anything to do with the owner or the front office. Quite frankly Hue really wasn't all that great in Oakland.

And j/c here, but I actually agree with another recent post that the front office didn't need to tear this down, however if I recall we had the highest paid defense in the league and we won 3 games before they took over. So, it's actually amusing when I read posts how the front office is cheap and we should spend money because that's how you win.

We have passed on a lot of QBs and I think it's absolutely obvious and necessary we need a qb to win. I also think the defense today is a ton better than the defense we had two years ago. So I think the front office is doing their job in that regard.

I want people to really take the time to read this crap. Seriously............can it get more ridiculous than this?

I don't think the play calling would really be all that different between Kizer and Hogan.

difference imo would be in the execution of said plays.

I do how ever agree with your first point.

Are you assuming people don't read your crap?

on a consistent basis? 2 or 3 more years if we stick to the plan.

Why are the Jets winning games? They are 3rd in least experience and they have McKown at qb....with what people said was one of the worst rosters of all time. Why can't we at least pull out a couple wins against crappy teams like they did?

Mostly because of a rookie QB. Not all, but mostly.

The Jets had the advantage of playing us. That explains one win.

Well Paul was a WR in High School and at Harvard so I would say yep he can catch a pass.

Some interesting rumours have had me thinking, so I'm just going to list some of my nonsense below.

Some of the comments regarding our front office recently have been interesting. Matt Miller, B/R's lead draft writer, claims Hue Jackson wanted the Browns to draft Mitch Trubisky (Trade up, Garrett no matter what was a real thing) or Patrick Mahomes. This goes hand in hand with the rumors I've seen previously suggesting the same thing.

The year before, it was apparently Goff who Hue Jackson was infatuated with, and wanted the Browns to trade up one spot to get him, but Hue also liked Wentz - and wasn't happy with the front office (Podesta, specifically, I believe) basically saying they didn't view Wentz as a top 20 quarterback.

While we're never going to really know, Jimmy will have kept tabs on who was most interested in who. If Hue did like these quarterbacks, and it was the front office who shied away, one would think Jimmy would take that in to account if he was going to make any firings. It would be pretty hard to blame Hue for the lack of winning if these exciting quarterbacks were guys he was jumping on the table for. Based on what I've seen, Kessler and Kizer were front office decisions that the coaching staff didn't support 100% but were accepting with a, "we're still going to coach whoever you give us."

Then Jay Glazer made the bold prediction that Peyton Manning will be an NFL general manager next year. Cleveland was named as a destination, largely due to our need and Haslam's long connection with the Manning family.

Realistically, I wonder if that could be the move. Get a football GM that will distract the angry people from the fact you just bought yourself another year of continuity, while providing Hue Jackson, and the front office, an extra set of "football eyes" to assist in the acquisition of talent.

mac brought up a good point with experience, and the Jets are still a year "older" than the Browns team. We did strip it down and nearly half our roster is 1st or 2nd year players. We also shipped a lot of the experience and mentors out of town. Not that I'm saying we should have kept them.

Quarterback is big part as well. Kizer is probably one of the worst quarterbacks in the league this year.

And of course coaching. Despite what many may think, Hue is part of the reason why we are 0-5 and 1-15 last season. Can you image if he went 0-16 last year? It is disappointing that some posters refuse to believe Hue is an issue and resort to bullying other posters when they have a difference of opinion. It is what it is I guess.

So bottom line, experience, the QB play, and the head coach I believe are your main reasons for the 0-5 start.

I believe their HC is also in his third year. It takes time to put a team together...especially a very young team. I think Hue will be fine.

Browns did more to build Texans quarterback situation than their own

All about the quarterbacks …

1. Debt of gratitude: A win against the Houston Texans would mean more than knocking the Browns off their 0-fer season. Keep in mind the Browns own the Texans’ No. 1 and No. 2 picks in the 2018 draft. Any Houston loss helps improve the Browns’ future picks. The picks were acquired in separate trades in which Browns EVP Sashi Brown personally rebuilt the Texans’ quarterback situation and infused their franchise – not his – with unbridled hope. First, Brown took free agent bust Brock Osweiler off the Houston books essentially for the No. 2 pick. Osweiler is now a backup with the Broncos, his original team, and the Browns are paying $15.225 million of his salary. Then on the first day of the draft in April, Brown hooked up again with good friend Rick Smith, the Houston GM, and agreed to trade him the No. 12 pick in the first round for the Texans’ No. 25 pick in 2017 (used on safety Jabrill Peppers) and No. 1 pick in 2018. Smith took Clemson quarterback Deshaun Watson.

2. The impact: The Osweiler trade relieved Smith of his albatross. It removed $16 million in guaranteed salary and created $10 million in salary cap space. Brown made it positively clear at the time that the incentive for the trade was Houston’s No. 2 pick, and he received plaudits from analytics mavens for pioneering an NBA-like salary dump trade into the NFL arena. Football people, however, thought otherwise. At NFL owners meetings in March, Texans owner Bob McNair warbled, “It was a shocker for me. I couldn’t believe that Rick was able to pull it off. It’s unbelievable. Everybody around the league, their jaws are still hanging open.” The Watson trade was almost as shocking, proving the Browns didn’t learn their lesson from trading away franchise quarterback Carson Wentz to the Eagles the year before. The impact of Watson has been palpable. Through five games last year with Osweiler at quarterback, the Texans were 31st in scoring (16.4 points per game) and 27th in total offense (310.4 total yards). Through five games with Watson – he took over as starter in Game 2 – the Texans are fourth in scoring (28.8 points) and 12th in total offense (344.6 total yards). They have seven plays of 30 yards or more on offense, compared to three at this time a year ago. The Browns? They are starting preseason No. 4 quarterback Kevin Hogan in Houston after benching second-round pick DeShone Kizer.

3. It’s elementary, Watson: The pivotal event of the pre-draft season may have been Watson electing to skip the Senior Bowl – against the wishes of Browns coach Hue Jackson, who coached the squad Watson was assigned to. In a phone conversation, Jackson couldn’t talk him out of it. Watson needed time off to recover physically from the beating he took in his triumphant national championship conquest of Nick Saban’s Alabama powerhouse. I contend that if Watson had participated in the Senior Bowl, he would have wooed the entire Browns organization to consider him for the No. 1 pick, but most assuredly the No. 12 pick. “I don’t know that,” Jackson said Wednesday. “I can’t speculate on that. He is not here. He is playing for the Houston Texans and is doing a good job for them. We have to go slow him down this weekend.” Jackson grew irritated by follow-up questions about whether he favored taking Watson at No. 12 and was over-ruled by Brown and Paul DePodesta, chief strategy officer. Remember, Jackson and defensive coordinator Gregg Williams effectively had teamed up to win the debate for Myles Garrett over North Carolina quarterback Mitch Trubisky with the No. 1 pick. “We can’t all of a sudden flip them so why are we having this discussion?” Jackson said lamely. “It doesn’t matter. He is in Houston. It doesn’t matter for this reason: whether we did or didn’t, that is not the point. The point is we are getting ready to play the Houston Texans in Houston. Here is our football team. We are 0-5, and we are trying to go get a football victory. It doesn’t matter. He plays quarterback there. Kevin Hogan is playing quarterback for us this week, and DeShone Kizer is backing him up.”

4. Missed again: According to sources, the Browns rated the 2017 quarterback class in this order: 1. Trubisky, 2. Patrick Mahomes, of Texas Tech, 3. Kizer. After DePodesta lost the battle over taking Trubisky at No. 1, the Browns, said a source, were willing to trade up from No. 12 to get him. But the Chicago Bears moved from No. 3 to No. 2 to grab Trubisky. The Browns may have taken Mahomes at No. 12, but their analytics department did not favor moving up to take him. The Chiefs’ football department thought Mahomes was worth trading a first- and third-round pick in 2017 and their first in 2018 to Buffalo to draft Mahomes at No. 10. The Chiefs, of course, are the only undefeated team through five games and have the luxury of keeping Mahomes on ice. The Browns eventually took Kizer at No. 52 in the second round after selecting Garrett, Peppers and tight end David Njoku in the first round.

5. Hue’s follies: It is understandable that Jackson would defer questions about what happened. His reputation as a “quarterback whisperer” is taking a beating. He has burned through Robert Griffin, Josh McCown, Cody Kessler and Kizer as starting quarterbacks through 21 games. These are their won-loss records: Griffin, 1-4; McCown, 0-4; Kessler, 0-8; Kizer, 0-5. Consider that pre-Jackson, Johnny Manziel was 2-6 in his eight games as Browns starter. These are the times that try the souls of Browns fans.

http://www.espn.com/blog/cleveland/post/...-than-their-own