DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Should the Front Office get a pass?

You stated that Hue wanted us to trade up to get Goff and Trubisky. Maybe the FO tried but were unable to swing deals.

Good points. In addition, look at our some of our skill players. All three qbs are extremely inexperienced and have never even won a game in the NFL. That's amazing. What about our WRs? We have one vet and bunch of unproven second round guys. TEs? We cut the one w/experience and have a rookie and second year guy being counted on.

Yet, some people still want to blame Hue Jackson and give the FO and owner a pass.

I can give the FO a pass, but not at the expense of laying the blame at the feet of Hue Jackson.

I don't think he specifically made that decision. That was just one of his quotes from the podium. I should have done this before, but here is Podesta's comment in response to being asked about passing on the quarterbacks early in the 2016 draft.

"I think the hardest part, and where we have to stay the most disciplined, as much as you want a player, you can't invent him if he doesn't exist. In a given year, there may be two or three NFL-ready quarterbacks at the college level. In another year, there literally may be zero. There just may be not be anybody in that year who's good enough to be a top 20 quarterback in the NFL. Even though you have a desperate need for one, you have to resist the temptation of taking that guy just because you have a need if you don't believe he's one of those 20 guys at the end of the day. I think that's the hardest part, just maintaining your discipline because you have the need. That's what we did this year."

What I think is the front office collectively made the decision based on several factors, including that Hue liked Goff more than Wentz (So, not exactly standing on a table and screaming for Wentz.)

I am a little worried the front office is gun shy when it comes to quarterbacks. Hue loved Goff (I felt Hue's piece with Mike Silver made it really clear and transparent that he loved Goff), but they didn't want to trade up from #2 to #1 for him. If Hue did love Trubisky or Mahomes, they didn't want to trade up for him.

Then again, both these classes have not been without issue. Goff/Wentz/Watson look like guys their teams can build around, but they were not sure fire and all three went to situations significantly further ahead in their process than ours.

Yo .. Yo .... Hey ... can someone please give me a hand with the MIRROR real quick ...

I started reading and then scrolled to the bottom to see the link was an ESPN link... I knew it had to be Grossi. What a waste of time.

Absolutely true. Based on what I know, we didn't. I'll explain.

1. Goff.

Mike Silver did a great piece called "The First 33 Weeks" outlining Hue Jackson's first 33 weeks as our head coach. It included this part;

"Though Jackson was still enamored with Goff, who came to Cleveland for a private workout at the end of March, the coach's excitement about Griffin served as a hedge against losing out on the ex-Cal passer. Rather than exploring a trade with the Tennessee Titans, who held the No. 1 overall pick and were not in the market for a quarterback, as a means of ensuring that Goff would be there for the taking, the Browns decided to lay low and see what unfolded.

And while Jackson was hardly thrilled when, on the morning of April 14, he learned that the Los Angeles Rams had executed a bold trade with Tennessee to move up from 15th to first -- and correctly surmised that they'd done so with Goff as their target -- he and Brown quickly rebooted and changed course."

A case could be made that "hardly thrilled" doesn't mean the Browns didn't try. But the deal was done April 14. I think if multiple teams were vying for the pick, the Titans would have never given it up so quickly.

I also think they would have taken almost anything from Cleveland because there were long-standing rumors that the Eagles were trying to get up to #2. If the Titans were smart, they would have got some picks off the Browns for #2, and then sold #2 to the Eagles. Think of all those selections they could have had. In hindsight, I think they would have traded to us. I just don't think the Browns called; probably explains why LA went hard for the deal two weeks before the draft, the Browns were not expecting that.

Link - http://www.nfl.com/33weeks

There was actually a story somewhere that I cannot find in which it outlined the moment the decision was made by the Rams to trade up for Goff. Goff has gone to do a private work out in LA, and it was uncharacteristically raining. Apparently, Goff was throwing darts all over the field, and they all agreed then and there he was the guy; They made a deal as quickly as possible, to avoid anyone else trading up. That story, which again I cannot remember where I saw it, combined with Silver, suggests the Browns were not serious contenders in trading up.

2. Trubisky.

Peter King of the MMQB did a great story from inside the 49ers draft room, that actually tracked the Bears trade up for Trubisky. The 49ers actually had no idea the Bears were trading up for Trubisky, and there wasn't any communication with Cleveland about a move.

Link - https://www.si.com/mmqb/2017/05/01/san-f...ster-peter-king

Now, I'm just guessing, but based on that, I don't think the Browns attempted to trade up. If they really thought Trubisky was worth trading up for, surely they would have called everyone from #2 to #11. With all those selections, a lot of high ranking talent and all those quarterbacks, it wouldn't have revealed the Browns' hand. As we see, the 49ers didn't even think the Bears wanted Trubisky.

TL;DR: You're right, we might have tried and we can't know for sure, but I don't think we did try to trade up.

Burned through? Really? Burned through? C'mon Man!

Hue took a flyer on RG3...it didn't work. Low risk.

Burned through John McCown? Puhleeeeze. He was the vet insurance policy. Nothing more.

Burned through Kessler? Really? A 3rd Rd project who would not have seen the field last year but for the unbelievable amount of injuries at QB. He's still on the team.

Burned through Kizer? A 2nd Rd project who simply wasn't/isn't ready...yet. He's still on the team and is a whopping 21 years old.

That article was crap from start to finish.

The fact remains Hue has gone through more qbs in 1.4 seasons as the Browns HC than the rest of the AFC North combined in their last 10 seasons
He merely had in the past had to help coach up refine a qb in that particular offense
He was never responsible for drafting etc qbs In the past

Well...1.3125 seasons...but...one AFC North Coach inherited his 1st-Rd-drafted, veteran, Super Bowl winning QB...another AFC North Coach got his 1st-Rd-drafted QB before he even coached any other QBs on his roster...and the other AFC North Coach got his 2nd-Rd-QB as a default after his Pro Bowl QB basically quit for the cheapest owner in the NFL - a 2nd Rd QB whose fans cannot wait to move on from.

Hue took some shots with what he had available. I don't consider that "burning through". You can't "burn through" has-beens, journeymen and projects who should not have seen the field yet. It's waaaaay to early to say he burned through his 2nd Rd QB who was the fourth QB taken in his draft class.

Yes, he burned through Kessler. "Trust me".

Having four injured QB's in one season is not burning through anything sorry

No one knows what Hue really meant by that. Maybe it was "Trust me. The kid will sit and learn and be a pretty good NFL QB after his 3rd year."

IMO, Hue's "trust me" comment concerning the Kessler pick was Hue's attempt to take the heat off of our new front office for reaching to take Kessler in the 3rd round.

Kessler isn't even close to the type of QB Hue appears to prefer...

...when Hue was QB coach for the Ravens in 2008 they drafted Joe Flacco (6-6/245)out of Delaware, in the 1st round. Flacco had the size, mobility and a strong arm..

...in 2011 when Hue was the HC of the Raiders it was rumored that the Raiders were interested in drafting Colin Kaepernick but the 49ers moved up to draft him. Kap fit the Hue Jackson mold, 6-4, mobile with a strong arm. After missing out of Kaepernick in the 2011 draft, the Raiders drafted Terrelle Pryor, (6-5/230) in the 2011 supplemental draft, who fit Hue Jackson's QB mold, having size, mobility and a strong arm.

Given Hue's past history concerning the type of QB he prefers, tell me how the Browns end up with a (6-1/220), average mobility and below average arm strength?

IMO, Kessler fit the "analytical mold" of Depodesta and Sashi, who drafted Kessler at least 2 rounds early. Some draft sites listed Kessler as a FA to possible late round pick. The same draft site had Hogan projected to be drafted in 3rd to 5th round range. The Chiefs drafted Hogan in the 5th round...
Link to draft site

Like I said, Hue took a lead role, taking the heat off the front office, doing his part to insulate the front office from criticism, imo.

I like this FO much better than all others since the return.

duplicate post

Lol I try to keep it real. At least from my point of view.

Me too.

I like this entire coaching staff much better than all others since the return.

I liked Chud and Turner .... other than that there by far the best ... not much else there to like ...

RAC maybe? ... what else ....

Shurmer, Pett, Jeannie, Palmer? .... a list of HC BUMS!!!!

I like them too. Let's give them a pass. While we're at it, let's give them a tax cut too!!!

I thought Butch was the only one that sounded like he knew what he was doing...then he lost it.

Bad timing. Power vacuum created a monster.

Browns are 0-5, and the people at fault include ... Kenny Britt?





http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ss...art_river_index

What do the fans have to do with it?

The guy wanted to leave anyway.

First off EO I hope you are doing well. Second, yes from what I've seen and heard, TP is not doing too well in D.C. Thirdly, why is MR. Haslam at fault for what we have now? If he gave the FO and coaching staff freedom to run things the way they want he is not at fault. Really no one is at fault IMO because we knew, or should have known, this would happen with a total rebuild. We went with it now we have to see it through and IMHO things will be a lot better in a year or 2. Stay the course.

No they don't get a pass, they created this mess. They have shown no improvement. No progress. No signs that things will get better in time.

I think his numbers are essentially the same as Britt's. And Britt has played in one less game. I'll assume Britt has more drops but I've read/heard Pryor has struggled so far. Admittedly, I watched only one game of Pryor's when he caught a deep touchdown pass from Cousins.

I think the front office has stated several times that they will defer to hue when it comes to the quarterback position. I'm sure there are variables involved when it comes to drafting one.

Hue has also said at one point that accuracy is the most important attribute for a quarterback. My guess is Hue wanted Kessler for this very reason.

Why do we always blame the front office for the quarterback position? Maybe Hue's ego gets in the way as he thinks he can turn almost any quarterback into a franchise quarterback?

It's interesting that Hogan clearly outplayed every other quarterback this preseason yet Kizer got the call to start. Maybe it really wasn't the front office who demanded Kizer play, but rather Hue wanting to prove he IS the quarterback whisperer.

We can speculate all we want. Our guys do an excellent job of backing each other up and not throwing anyone under the bus. So.... We won't know the real truth until the book comes out.

I always thought Hue was here in large part to identify the QB. I seem to remember reading that in the past.

This is a bit off topic, but I never understood the Kessler pick.

Cody does not seem to fit what either the FO or Hue prefers. He is like the proverbial outlier that no one can figure out how it got there.

I trusted him on this.

There's a reason he's the third string QB now...

I think it was a value pick with Kessler where we needed a QB and he was the best one on the board at the time as per the analytics, that's my best guess. He played okay considering he was put in to a position he never should have been in.

I remember reading news articles that Hue was frustrated with Kessler's inability to run his offense (limited arm strength) last year but we had no alternatives.

Everyone on this board knows you don't buy it.

To me the optics of it look like the FO has relied on Hue for the QB. It's been said multiple times by Sashi, the FO signed RG3 because Hue fell in love with him at a workout and even stopped the FO (allegedly) of pursing Goff in a trade up after Hue reportedly loved him too.

Even after last season and the debacle that was Kessler, the FO still came out and said Hue was paramount in finding a QB. I subscribe to the belief that information that comes out right have a trade, signing, draft pick is usually more accurate than the information that is made public after something goes wrong....like Kessler. Thus I believe Kessler was a Hue "want".

And Hue wanting Kessler isn't a bad thing necessarily. If Kessler becomes a long-term backup for us, that's a good pick in the third round, IMO. We'll see how it plays out.

I do believe Kessler is a Hue Jackson type QB. When you say accuracy is your #1 concern that's what you have in Cody. Remember he was not supposed to play last year. I wonder where we'd be if RG3 never got hurt...

Coleman was probably rated the best WR in the 2016 draft by our front office. I can't say whether or not Hue had input on him and neither can anyone else. Plus Pryor was already on the roster and that was before the breakout season. With our WR corp in dire need of upgrade, I think anyone would be on board with the one who is rates the best of his class.

And I don't think Hue makes it clear he does not have input into the talent on the field. I would be willing to bet he does. And who has "control" over the 53 man roster isn't really relevant as it's a collaborative effort with everyone involved.

GC. This front office should not get a pass.

Not for the players they have signed but for the good, (perhaps good) players they have let go.

Gary Barnidge.
Des Bryant, John Greco
Joe Haden
Terrell Pryor

DeMario Davis,
Brock Osweiler
Ed Reynolds II.

Maybe the Front office is trying to do too much. Who are Porter(?) and Treggs?

Why can't the team commit to a group for more than 7 days

What about Tyrone Holmes, what's with cutting, re-signing and cutting him 3 times in a two week span after the 4th pre season game.

If Rashard Higgans can lead the day with 90 yards receiveing why couldn't they see enough to not put him on the practice squad, off the team for the first 2 weeks.

Front office is getting a pass.
Long term if they are going to replace between 19-25 players

If that many are having their 1st year in a Browns uniform,
then you have to take some accountability for the lack of success.