DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Rating Sashi Brown's Drafted Players So Far

It's too early to grade the drafts, but I thought an overall look at the two drafts so far might be interesting. Based on grades alone, it will be easy for most of you to trash a bulk of the players, and I fully expect that because that's what we do. But I do suggest keeping an open mind, especially when considering ratings like 67.8 #71 Below Average for Ogbah and 65.9 #31 Below Average for Njoku. In other words, the ratings don't tell the whole story. Poor QB play, poor team play as a whole, youth, inexperience, time within the systems, and upside potential all factor in. Also keep in mind that the quick blurbs about performance are JMHO, and in no way reflect any official scouting reports. Anyway, have at it.


2016

Rd 1

Corey Coleman WR #15 - Shows potential but often injured. Can’t classify as a bust yet, but we need to see consistent production and the ability to stay on the field. Current PFF rating is 73.3 #45 Average.

Rd 2

Emmanuel Ogbah DE #32 - Starting DE - Shows flashes and has potential but is inconsistent. Needs further development & experience. The return of Garret may help his play. Current PFF rating is 67.8 #71 Below Average.

Rd 3

Carl Nassib DE #65 - Second String DE behind Miles Garret. Shows potential and flashes but often disappears. Current PFF rating is 47.1 #96 Poor.

Shon Coleman OT #76 - Starting RT. Good run blocker, struggles with pass protection but is showing improvement. Current PFF rating is 70 #29 Average.

Cody Kessler #QB 93 - 3rd String QB. May be too early to call a bust, but the writing is on the wall. No PFF rating.

Rd 4

Joe Shobert LB #99 - Starting MLB - Good motor, shows flashes, inexperience and physical tools may be limiting. Current PFF rating is 42.7 #68 Poor.

Ricardo Lewis WR #114 Second String WR behind Kenny Britt. Good work ethic but has issues with drops. Needs work on route running. Current PFF rating is 43.9 #100 Poor.

Derrick Kindred DB #129 - Starting Safety - Good tackler, and has some very good game. Still developing, may have high upside. Current PFF rating is 77.1 #33 Average.

Seth DeValve TE #138 - Backup TE to Telfer but in reality is starting “Pass Catching” TE. Fairly consistent catching the ball and getting separation but inconsistent QB play makes him difficult to judge. Not a good blocker. Current PFF rating is 62.3 #35 Below Average.

Rd 5

Jordan Payton WR #154 - No longer in football at this time.

Spencer Drango OG #168 - Backup RG to Kevin Zeitler. Developmental player. No PFF Rating.

Rashard Higgins WR #172 - Starting WR. In because of injury. Inconsistent so far. Inconsistent QB play makes it difficult to just. Like all Browns WRs has “drop” problems. Current PFF rating is
42.5 #102 Poor.

Trey Caldwell CB #250 - No longer in football at this time.

Rd 7

Scooby Wright LB #250 - Backup ILB for the AZ Cardinals.


2017

Rd 1

Myles Garret DE #1 - Starting DE. Just coming off injury. Limited play. Very High potential if he can stay healthy. Current PFF Rating is 74.3 #0 (probably not enough data) Average.

Jabrill Peppers DB #25 - Starting FS. Has been wildly inconsistent, possibly in part due to scheme and distance played from LOS. Non-factor in punt returns. Current PFF Rating is 38 #83 Poor.

David Njoku TE #29 - Backup TE. Has shown flashes and has tremendous upside. Inconsistent QB makes it difficult to judge. Has improved week to week. Current PFF Rating is 65.9 #31 Below Average.

Rd 2

Deshone Kizer QB #52 - Backup QB. Has been benched in favor of Hogan due to inconsistent play and stagnant growth. Has upside and potential, with physical skills and tools. Current PFF Rating is 44 #32 Poor.

Rd 3

Larry Ogunjobi DT #65 - Backup DT. Has flashed and shown good potential. Current PFF Rating is 80.3 #33 Above Average.

Rd 4

Howard Wilson CB #126 - Out due to injury. Potentially could return to practice week 7. No PFF rating.

Rd 5

Roderick Johnson OT #160 - Out due to injury.

Rd 6

Caleb Brantley DT #185 - Third string DT behind the deepest position group on the team. Has high upside. Current PFF Rating is 47.8 #0 (small sample) Poor.

Rd 7

Zane Gonzalez K #185 - Starting Kicker. Poor showing thus far with three missed FGs. Very disappointing so far. Has upside but needs to start making FGs or is in danger of losing his jog. No PFF rating that I could find.

Matthew Dayes RB #252 - 3rd string back up RB. Has flashed but not much production so far. No PFF rating that I could find.

no offense to you - but this is ludicrous. It is way to early to grade really any of them, but I will go based on what we have seen.

They are not taking into effect where they guys were drafted. Joe S at 4th round is a steal. He is playing very good ball so far as an example. Listing player than can start and produce as poor who was drafted in the 4th round is just crazy.

Caleb Brantly in the 7th round was a steal as well. They have him listed as poor. How many other 7th round picks are still even playing, yet producing (although very limited, he is still playing).

Well first off...I think the PFF grades are questionable at best.

I actually think the pay off from the 2016 draft is looking pretty good. Ogbah has taken big steps thus far this year and I think has looked great. Both Schobert and Kindred have taken big leaps forward as well and have become solid starters. Others, who are still with us, are all playing productive roles on the team minus Kessler.

2017 has been similarly good. Actually, I'd say the worst performer from that draft thus far may actually be Kizer. I still don't hate the pick given where we picked him up but he's showing exactly what draftniks said...needs another year of experience. Physical tools are all there but the mental side of the game hasn't caught up.

I'll amend that...Gonzalez is the most disappointing thus far. When you use a pick on a kicker, you expect him to be nails.

Not very impressive " Based " on the " EARLY " returns form their first TWO DRAFTS .. Now that may very well change depending on players like Garrett , Coleman and Peppers in the future . I darn sure don't trust their ability to pick a QB or WR at this stage of their process ..

No offense to you but If it's so ludicrous, why say anything? And no offense, but clearly you have reading comprehension issues since "It's too early to grade the drafts" was the beginning of the first sentence. No offense.

I posted the PFF rating as sort of a milestone as to where we are now as a snapshot five games in. I'm hoping to update the list periodically to chart progress over time. As I mentioned, there are many factors that could contribute to the relatively poor grades. And I have to wonder, if we were say 3-2 the grades might not be higher. (But I suppose that assumes performances would be better). Also, I agree that the eye test has many of our players looking much better than the grades would indicate.

Drafting Kessler, passing on Wentz, and signing RGIII are clearly moves that make their ability to judge QB talent seem suspect. Also, their WR drafting has been poor too, on the surface. But I personally feel the jury is still out because I believe this coming draft will address both issues by picking better talent higher in the draft. But yeah, right now, it seems pretty ugly.

It shows that PFF or whoever doesn't take into account what the eye sees but it's there, league wide, so offers a comparison. Players on good teams will have their play elevated whilst good players on bad teams will suffer the reverse, is my 2p.

I personally think that the 2 drafts have been very decent based on what we've seen to date. Still, lots of time to revise that either way.

2016 -
Ogbah, Kindred and Schobert are IMHO good starting level players. Nassib and Coleman (S) may well transition to that. Add Coleman (fingers x'd) and one of the receivers and that becomes a very good draft at building the base.

2017 - too early to say but Njoku looks like he will become a real threat - he's made some standout plays. Ogunjobi has also flashed. Garrett I think will be great.

A good topic to instigate some thought anyways

If we get a dozen solid players out of the two drafts, that would be a 50% success rate. And that would be amazing. Higher than that would be phenomenal. The jury is still out, but the possibility is there.

Just based on my eye test - I'll simply state whether the player looks like they *might* be viable as a starter, Rotation or Back-Up (I'm not going to debate back up versus no place in the NFL yet).

C Coleman - Starter if the guy can stay healthy.
Ogbah - Starter
Nassib - Rotation
Coleman - Starter
Kessler - Backup
Schobert - Rotation
R Lewis - Starter/Rotation (Sample size too small - with Hogan throwing the ball he did okay last week)
Kindred - Starter
Devalve - Starter
Payton - Out of Football.
Drango - Backup
Higgins - Backup
Caldwell - Out
Scooby - Backup

Myles Garret DE #1 - Starter DE.
Jabrill Peppers DB #25 - Starter
David Njoku TE #29 - Starter
Deshone Kizer QB #52 - Starter (needs to develop significantly - I think it can happen year 2/3)
Larry Ogunjobi DT #65 - Starter
Howard Wilson CB #126 - Incomplete - but high hopes
Roderick Johnson OT #160 - incomplete
Caleb Brantley DT #185 - Rotation at worst
Zane Gonzalez K #185 - Ugh - incomplete
Matthew Dayes RB #252 - Rotation

Good teams are not built with 'great' players at every position. I think a lot of these guys that might be 'starters' could easily start for the Browns because we're a bad team - but I also think they could potentially be average or really close to average and potentially start for many teams with some development ... just look at Shon Coleman who has a middle of the pack grade at RT - and he's really been very poor in pass protection when facing speed, I don't think anyone thinks he's great - but by definition if he is middle f the pack based on PFF rankings - he's a valid starter.

That would be a phenomenal success rate.

YES - That would potentially be 11 starters from 2 drafts. I'd guess the chances of that happening is slim as many need to continue to develop and improve to get to that starter level - but I'd bet when this is all said and done we landed 8 solid starting guys.

What it doesn't take into account is the need to also land impact players ... Garrett could/should be. Njoku looked like he should/could be based on the last game. Peppers looks like he's going to be an impact player or a total bust (I don't see much middle ground with him).

I get what you're saying, I really do.

But I think when you look at your list, you must consider the talent level they were competing against to become starters. I mean who were the players they had to beat out to earn their starter status?

Would some of these guys be starters on other teams where they would have had much better talent to beat out to earn their positions? In some of those cases, I don't think so.

Now don't get me wrong. These are very young players who have not reached their full potential yet and some will get even better, so I'm not really questioning their ability to improve. That's why it's impossible to evaluate first and second year players. It's a non starter.

My stance is that being a starter in the NFL has a lot to do with the talent level of your team and what type of competition you actually had to beat out to become a starter.

Come on, man. That's nonsense. Players are evaluated all the time. First year, second year, pre-draft and so on. They may not have reached their full potential yet, but they can certainly be evaluated as to where they are now. Hence the rating grades. I fully expect those to change over time. It will be interesting to follow.

Agreed Cal I think the main issue is we haven't yet had outright top tier players but I have hopes for Njoku, Garrett and (gasp) Coleman.

All teams miss on picks. We are so bad because we have blown soooo many picks. I think the current FO, regardless of other issues they may have, have batted above average so far in the draft.

Now the question re: WR and QB is very pertinent. However, the strategy means we have lots of ammo to go after it again next draft. Kizer was a 1st rounder prior to his last season. He may well come good. If he doesn't - and this is what I do like - we don't tie ourselves to a mistake. We seem to move on.

I want Hue and the FO given at least 4 years. We've tried everything. I'm willing to be patient and try this. Fail if you try is OK; not trying is pointless.

Yeah, that's the point of this post. To see how we do over time under this new regime. On paper, at first glance, it appears to be trending up. We'll see.

I also think the point of stockpiling picks continually is you eventually start to upgrade most positions replacing former picks with new picks or former starters become rotation, etc. You are always bringing in young talent and you have a greater chance of success due to volume (talent evaluation notwithstanding).

You can eventually always go BPA or pick up more future picks. We do, however, need to achieve a base level of talent to start winning games but once that happens, it should start to really flourish from there. The plan on paper is so logical. It needs luck and the powers that be hitting above .500.

It should be said that he has to home grow his talent. He's not just being handed a good team, he's being handed raw talent the needs to be developed. I'm sure that's why he get all gushy when he gets a player like Collins. He doesn't have to raise him from birth.

What did u mean by

Next year no excuses for the drafted players ..

I’m not sure what U mean by that ... please explain ...

Yeah, I'm hopeful that the 2018 draft is the icing on the cake. Beyond that, we should be drafting to either replace players who will move to a backup role, or adding players to develop behind the current starters. Like a real team.

Good stuff Cal...thanks.

When the discussion of the drafted picks slows down how about evaluating FA/trade signings like Tretter, Zeitler, McCourty, Reiter, Collins, Taylor, Colquitt, Britt (yuck) and the undrafted guys like Coley, BBC, & Burgess.

There is some talent there too. Just needs time to develop together under consistent, capable leadership.

It's week five of the second season.

Cory Coleman is definitely a bust, not even a question.

I'm not ready to call him a bust, close, but right now I will call him a major disappointment because he will always get/be hurt.

Uh-huh. Your point?

I'm hoping to do that as well, Willie. Maybe next week.

IMHO, he belongs in the slot.

Heres the issue for the Browns
They've been so woeful for decades now
When they flip the roster the new wave of players they draft are just simply good enough to start for the Browns but none bring very little difference making ability to the table
So far no one from that 2016 Draft is a difference maker.
For the Browns to close the gap and actually reach .500 it's immediate impact players
Not bums like Higgins and Louis who may never
Reach that level
Theirs 4 tiers of starters.
Poor average good great-elite.
I see no players with elite skills from that draft.
Kindred looks really promising.
Devalve is ok. He's not the next Kelce
Or Kyle Rudolph.
But from this draft
Njoku and Garrett look like difference makers

You have to remember that the "haul" from that first draft was more draft picks.

You don't judge a person's life when they are an infant.

Or a coach's tenure? Or an FO's performance? Yeah. I see your point.

Mac, I would if I wasn't so freaking lazy.

I agree, I just don't see how you can rate a player in the 7th round a poor pick lol. Especially when the player is still on the team. That's a WIN!