DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Hogan the starter part 2 ..

And once again they want us to fire FO, Coach, everything and blow it all up again - less than two years in......Wash, rinse, repeat.....

No doubt. Let's face it, most everyone in this FO is new to their respective positions. It's pretty much a rookie FO. Hue had one season as an NFL HC when he got here. The team is the youngest in the league.

No don't get me wrong, I understand the frustration everyone is going through. But until we give a group long enough to build a team and implement their plan, nothing will ever change around here.

I don't know if that is a good idea. I said earlier that starting Hogan had more to do w/Kizer not being ready than it did Hogan.

I think Kizer needs to sit for awhile. I don't think throwing him right back in there because "the other guy sucked" is what is best for Kizer's career.

I'd agree with that, and you almost have to see if Hogan's performance is a one-off or if he just can't get the ball down. It would also be nice to see a balanced run/pass attack with throws in the intermediate range that helped the QB hit the WR's in stride and had some success at moving the chains. That would be really freaking nice. Not for nothing, but Hue needs to pull his head out of his ass.

Colin Kaepernick is available.

I thought his accuracy was better in the beginning and got progressively worse as the INTs began to mount. I think it was mostly mental in that he was afraid of throwing more INTs and was trying to throw it in a location where only the receiver could catch it but was greatly erring on the side of caution and ended up throwing it where only the cheerleaders could catch it.

That or he was just overthrowing it, trying to compensate for a lack of arm strength and really trying to put a little extra umph behind it.. that will cause the ball to sail.

Horrible death spiral or catch-22 now. It is worse than a QB controversy because it is a negative mirror of it. We normally have fought over who was better, who was hyped coming in and booed going out at QB. But now it is more like who are we forced to watch next? Kizer stunk it up and managed to avoid showing much growth as we lost the same way multiple times. Enter Hogan who stunk it up worse (if that is even possible) in relief. Now having pulled one for the other, without injury as a reason, which bad man do you start? I assume Kessler will remain inactive and not participate in the musical chairs. Does Hue alternate them as they go on? Play both every game? There is no good metric unless some good can be demonstrated. So given two bad and ineffective choices, which one has the best chance of winning. Can't need to look at much tape or other dodges. One question for him he could answer is "Which one of these losses was different than the other? Any chance something different might happen soon?

Kevin Hogan - QB - Browns

Browns coach Hue Jackson will announce his Week 7 starter at quarterback on Wednesday.
Kevin Hogan was scarcely better than DeShone Kizer in the Browns' latest dismal loss on Sunday. Jackson also claimed Kizer "learned a lot" by watching Hogan and the game unfold from the sideline. Whomever the Browns start at quarterback in Week 7 will have a nonexistent receiver corps and barely functional running game.

Kizer should finish the season as starter. At this point, did Hogan hurt his stock so much, that now Cody takes over as backup...

Nah give Hogan at least until the bye week. We've seen him play better ball, we haven't seen that from Kizer since preseason.

This season is already doomed, so have fun with it. Has been bad, expect more of it I do. One of these two will be a backup maybe. Help them succeed. Call stuff that is not 2 yards ever. Fix the safety. I do not see all this as players.

No to Kessler.

Are you out there? I was wondering if you were going to post in this thread again.

Now after Sunday's game what do ya think?

Because he sucks and refuses to throw the ball farther than five yards?

Not to mention that he holds the ball longer than just about every other qb in the NFL and has looked worse this year than last.

He is like a deer in headlights!!!!!!!!!

That's a bit of an exaggeration don't you think?

Kessler, Hogan and Kizer hahaha. I think crfs said it the other day, we have the worst roster for QBs. Man, they are all pathetic.

"Pathetic", as in they cannot execute the called play? Which would lead me to believe that the play calling is...etc, etc.

Are you saying that play calling is the problem and the QB's accuracy and decision making are not the problems?

Pathetic as in... the play call got someone open and either they missed visually or physically when the ball is lasered miles above their heads.

The play calling don't make a QB throw a bad pass. I'm not always high on Hue's play calling, but we just have bad players at the QB position. We saw we can move the ball when the QB is operating with the "bad" WR core and the "bad" play calling.

Vers, objectively speaking, would you say the play calling is designed to most effectively set the QBs up for success? What's your take on the play calls in general?

I don't think you can classify the play calling as "bad" but I do think it's somewhat inappropriate and ineffective for our talent pool. I get that Hue want to school the QBs in the finer points of his system, but I'd like to see him bring them along more slowly, with more emphasis on the run, and more intermediate routes over the middle designed to hit the WRs in stride. More of a WC offense might be appropriate here. JMHO

Hue does not seem to like using his TE's in the passing game. Look what happened to Barnidge after his banner year...

Not really "bad" per say hence why in quotes and etc, but it seems like I'm mad at the constant passing attempts and the that 4th down dive play really, really angered me.

Said it before and I'll say it again, I'd love to have an OC here. One that sees that if we're running the ball okay, we won't drop back each snap afterwards.

I suppose this is what bbrowns are talking about. Pass happy OC with below average, rookie QBs. But... pass happy as we are, we still have plays able to made, that are not. Most of which is because the QB play with exception of a few drops that are also ugly to see.

All JMO

What I mean by that analogy is that his demeanor looks like he is in fear. That can't be good. You want a guy who knows he can get the job done!

I think play calling is overrated. I think most fans and media types gush over guys when it works and unfairly blame guys when plays don't.

I think most NFL play callers know what they are doing.

There have been a ton of open receivers and our QBs have thrown inaccurately. That isn't the fault of the play design. We have also dropped quite a few passes. Again, that isn't due to a bad play call.

I actually took Njoku in a daily FF league last week. I was watching him as best as I could. He was the primary target on several plays. However, he was covered on every one of them. Most of those plays were over the middle. I think TN knew we would be looking for him and they usually dropped a LBer over the middle and had either a S or an OLBer shadowing him. Then, I come on here and read posters saying that we never tried to get him or the other TEs the ball. That simply is not true.

I also think that you have to be careful throwing a lot of balls over the middle w/young and inexperienced QBs. I know that you understand football pretty well, so I am assuming you know that there is way more traffic in the middle of the field than there is outside the hashes. You have dropping LBers, safeties, corners, and even D-lineman dropping. It's confusing and there are multiple reads and looks. It's hard to process all of that information.

Throwing deeper patterns and throws outside of the hashes reduces the amount of confusion. You typically have the corner and perhaps a safety. It's an easier read, especially if you throw it 10-12 yards plus.

On the other hand, I do think Hue had Hogan throw too many go routes down the sidelines last week. I get that it is safer, but we called too many of them, especially since Hogan was struggling.

I know a lot of people don't want to hear it, but all off-season I was preaching that our QBs and WRs would ensure that our offense would be pathetic this year.

The NFL game has evolved and you simply can't win if you have inferior personnel [whether that be due to talent or experience] at both QB and WR.

I'll tell you what, Cal. If the Browns were able to somehow trade for Jimmy G or draft a true stud QB next year and then add a dynamic WR and a true possession guy......Hue's play calling would not be a topic of conversation.

Thanks for the take Vers. You make a lot of good points, particularly about the traffic over the middle. I'm hoping Haslam holds his water and we land a stud QB and a few playmakers in 2018.

I will say this, that while the QBs and WRs talent is lacking, the entire team needs to learn how to run Hu's offense. I guess it's a matter of him trying to get everyone on the same page, and we're suffering the growing pains while that happens. Winning cures everything, and losing every single game is wearing on us. I still preach patience.

Okay, everyone is making sense this morning. Did I wake up and join a different Dawgtalkers? A portal or something?

hahaha!

Hue's refusal to throw between the hash marks sure makes Game planning easier for the opposing DC !

Yes, he does have a bit a fear in his eyes, I agree.

He's boring to watch play, but is/was our most accurate QB.

I think so too. I'm going to repost this here because it illustrates the point:

https://t.co/k7vlOQwgo7

Courtesy of Dawgs4Life

And increases the chance for CB's to jump the routes. Of course if our WR's don't come back to the ball, then it is apparent what the end result could be. See Jonathon Joseph...

Thanks! Confirms what I believed...

Vers made a good point about the traffic in the middle possibly making it difficult for young QBs to make completions there, but the almost complete lack of throws to the middle, and the disproportionate number of throws deep, and to the right side is very telling. I think there is a problem there that needs to be addressed immediately. Hue needs to tailor his offense so that it becomes more balanced (not with just where he throws but with pass/ run as well) and helps his QB succeed.

JMHO

I think we came out w/a commitment to run the ball on Sunday, but we fell behind by how many? 3 scores? That kinda changes the plan. LOL

I do agree with that, we definitely ran more this past week than we have been. It looked like a solid day running too. And you're right, the score dictated more passing. I guess what I should have said was "continued commitment to balanced run/throw".

The extra man in the box doesn't offer the opportunity for more throws there?