Had the game on but didn’t watch super close. That being said...
1) The Kevin Hogan experiment didn’t work. Hue felt he had to try it but it didn’t work. I was glad he didn’t pull Hogan in the middle of the game because it would have just seemed to knee-jerk at the QB position. I think he should just put Kizer back in next week and ride with him for the rest of the season. Kizer has the most upside. Let him develop.
2) Nice to see us get an interception
3) nice to be able to kick a FG heh
4) I had hope the Browns would pull off a win or something today but really this team doesn’t have the tools to win. Too much inexperience at the QB position paired with an extremely weak talent at the wideout position. This will continue to be a problem throughout the season. The only thing I can see helping this situation is the return of Coleman and/or, as much as I hate to say it, if Josh Gordon were to actually return to the team and be productive.
5) I think I heard either the announcers or someone in the pre-game say that Hue told Deshaun (sp?) Watson to “be ready” in the draft as if the Browns were going to draft him. Of course we know the Browns traded down instead. It’s hard to say how much success Watson would be having with the Browns and the lack of wide receivers on this team but it’s unfortunate.
6) The Browns are bad but I hope Hue gets 3 full seasons. Continual reboots are tiring. A reboot will likely not result in winning next year. It does happen from time to time for some teams but I don’t see it happening for the Browns. The Browns will be hard pressed to attract an elite coaching staff (this includes a head coach and assistant coaches) if they fire Hue during the season or at the end of the season. Why would anyone want to come here if Haslam will have fired Shurmur shortly after acquiring the team and after 2 years as head coach, Chud after 1 year, Pettine after 2 years and then Hue Jackson after 2 years. Average or 1.75 years per coach (if you count Shurmur as 2 years...). I don’t think they will be able to lure a top quality candidate capable of turning around the franchise quickly (like in one year) if they do that. Too much risk for a coach. They will more likely get a guy who might not otherwise get a HC chance. Also they will have trouble bringing in good assistant coaches I’m sure. These people have to move their families and all that. New coaches also likely mean new systems which means our players might not fit as well. So they may need to bring in new players. I’d rather not watch another big rebuild. I think if Hue has a good #1 and decent #2 WR on the roster and a pretty good QB things would be a lot different.
Why does Hue insist on every pass play going 20 yards or more? Hogan's strength is a short, controlled offense with quick accurate passes.
I'm not excusing Hogan's game today, I just don't understand the play calling. All the exotic shifts, all the motion plays, etc. have only led to failure. Just get a solid, basic offense and execute it.
Have we thrown a slant this year?
I watched their TE run out 5 yards, turn around, and catch a pass then turn and run for 15 yards almost at will...
We threw 30 yards passe on 3rd and 2 and 3 yard passes on 3rd and 12. We just make everything look so damn difficult. When do we get the drag route guys coming across for the dump off with nobody around for 20 yards? I don't expect it every play but other teams do it fairly regularly, we do it fairly never.
Even our 4 yard outs in the flat on 3rd and 15 are heavily contested.
I think Hogan could be the future QB of the Cleveland Browns, we just need the FO to identify the right 9' tall WRs to draft this year so they can catch those balls that sail, which is most of them.
My other thought, I continue to see players we didn't draft but could have succeeding all over the NFL, some with good teams, some being part of the turnaround for previously bad teams... contributing, having success.. yet here we are.
Team will be sold soon.Has to be losing some coin on an empty stadium.
Hey, such an appropriate username to this topic.
Although this would be the best thing for Browns fans, it got a lot harder with the player's idiocracy.
Team franchise market values are plummeting with each keystroke I make (especially the Browns).
Going forward Haslam can only sell the Browns at a huge loss - for a fraction of what he paid.
I think it's extremely likely that the NFL is now in a downward spiral.
A lot of baby boomers and older are no longer fans. I don't think they'll be replaced by the younger generations.
We were the DieHardiest of the DieHards. Many of us lived and breathed Browns. I doubt the next generations will be nearly as compassionate.
Stupid players. Bunch of idiots.
I'd say the only hope for Haslam selling the Browns is if he has huge gains from his other business holdings and for some reason it makes sense for him to sell the Browns at a loss to offset other gains.
Why does Hue insist on every pass play going 20 yards or more? Hogan's strength is a short, controlled offense with quick accurate passes.
I'm not excusing Hogan's game today, I just don't understand the play calling. All the exotic shifts, all the motion plays, etc. have only led to failure. Just get a solid, basic offense and execute it.
Have we thrown a slant this year?
I watched their TE run out 5 yards, turn around, and catch a pass then turn and run for 15 yards almost at will...
We threw 30 yards passe on 3rd and 2 and 3 yard passes on 3rd and 12. We just make everything look so damn difficult. When do we get the drag route guys coming across for the dump off with nobody around for 20 yards? I don't expect it every play but other teams do it fairly regularly, we do it fairly never.
Even our 4 yard outs in the flat on 3rd and 15 are heavily contested.
I think Hogan could be the future QB of the Cleveland Browns, we just need the FO to identify the right 9' tall WRs to draft this year so they can catch those balls that sail, which is most of them.
My other thought, I continue to see players we didn't draft but could have succeeding all over the NFL, some with good teams, some being part of the turnaround for previously bad teams... contributing, having success.. yet here we are.
Stop this Hogan sfuff please.. Qb is imaterial right now
ProFootballTalk‏ Verified account @ProFootballTalk 0-6 this year and 1-21 since 2016, Browns quietly begin reaching out to football executives for potential hire
I'm going to Cleveland in a couple weeks to watch us play the Jags, and I'm not excited about the game at all. Not a bit..... Hopefully it'll be a fun tailgate.
I am going to LA for the Chargers game...I bought the tix thinking it would be fun and awesome to see the team in a small stadium. Must admit I am not as excited today as I was in May when I bought the tickets. Hopefully we may have a few wins by the time that game comes around.
ProFootballTalk‏ Verified account @ProFootballTalk 0-6 this year and 1-21 since 2016, Browns quietly begin reaching out to football executives for potential hire
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
ProFootballTalk‏ Verified account @ProFootballTalk 0-6 this year and 1-21 since 2016, Browns quietly begin reaching out to football executives for potential hire
ProFootballTalk‏ Verified account @ProFootballTalk 0-6 this year and 1-21 since 2016, Browns quietly begin reaching out to football executives for potential hire
It needs to be done, and I know I'm in the minority when I say that Hue is a good coach, I do honestly believe he is. But this analytics garbage isn't going to work in the NFL. Hue has been dealt a bad hand by a bunch of guys who rely on statistics, anybody can rely on statistics and act smart. It takes a true football guy with an eye for talent to judge what's best for an NFL team. Get Sashi and co. outta here!
Well unless they get a guy who loves Hue a GM will probably want his own HC , and we will have new systems, new coaches, the roster gutted and the first draft blown. Which seems the norm for the Browns every 2 years. I guess will have to wait and see. Hard to get excited about a reboot. Endless firings are ridiculous.
How do we blow this up... without blowing this up?
I think Hue needs an OC. Wearing the HC and OC hats is affecting both negatively. Let him design some plays and do some work with QBs, but he needs to be able to focus on the big picture more on game day.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
There's no way hogan gives us a better chance than Kizer... Wow... He over throws so many of his passes....
Ok hogan was decent with short game but awful with long ball... Thgh I don't have any faith in our wide receivers,,,
Running backs had a pretty good game... Special tams overall was good... Some great punt coverage....
Defense was decent... Had some good pressure on Watson at times,,, he's really hard to contain... Should have had another INT if Hopkins didn't break it up...
Hogan's inaccuracy and overthrows were pretty telling ... he's BAD. Kizer at least might get better, even slightly.
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
I think it's pretty pointless to trot Hogan back out there. I know Kizer has been awful, but we gotta see if he can get any better. If not, who cares? 0-16 is a REAL possibility. Maybe even more so than last year at this point.
Originally Posted By: Dawgs4Life
I think it's pretty pointless to trot Hogan back out there. I know Kizer has been awful, but we gotta see if he can get any better. If not, who cares? 0-16 is a REAL possibility. Maybe even more so than last year at this point.
No, No, let Hogan start next game! OMG we have seen Kizer (another ND hype.....see Quinn).
Hogan could have been beset by nerves, anxiety, pressure to succeed, we shouldn’t judge so quickly. We have tolerated Kizer’s nonsense for 5 games, let Hogan have at least 2 games.
How do we blow this up... without blowing this up?
I am at the point where I would say get rid of Sashi and DePodesta. Maybe keep Andrew Berry. But, keep Hue. He has made some glaring mistakes but, give him another year and let him help make final decisions in the draft room and FAs!
Can't we just hire on a consultant to help with the draft someone who can work with who we have now instead of blowing things up again. Someone like a Charley Casserly or a Bill Polian and I'm sure someone can think of others. Heck, I think Mel Kiper could help us. I would also suggest to Hue that he consider hiring an OC. It seems to be too much to do both jobs.
Hue's game plan and play calling HAVE to be questioned. He either doesn't know, or doesn't care that the players on this team can't execute his game plan. And still he calls bomb after bomb. (No pun intended.)
Living in SW OK I don't get many opportunities to see the Browns play. I changed channels at the second INT. They had injuries to major players and we STILL lost.
I'm hearing rumors of yet another re-boot in the FO. How can we afford to re-boot every two or three years and expect to build a winning team.
I am resigned to the fact that Hue is probably gone after this year.
This sucks.
Serious!
You think Hue stays for the entire year.
He may resign out of pride
Hue should submit his resignation as OC...to himself.
So, even though Hue was a successful play caller before he came here........you think his play calling is the problem and the fact that we have a lawyer and a baseball guy making personnel decisions w/no prior experience in making evaluations of football personnel........you give them a pass and think the problem w/the team is play calling?
Stop this Hogan sfuff please.. Qb is imaterial right now
No. A lot of teams think that until they plug in the right QB, then miraculously all of these other pieces that aren't good enough looks better. Suddenly DeValve is catching a pass in the flat on 3rd and 3 to extend the drive rather than watching it fly over his head... suddenly a simple in route has 12 YAC because the ball is placed properly....
I'm not saying Hogan can't be better, I'm not saying Kizer can't be better, I'm not saying one or the other is (or is not) the long term answer.... I'm saying we are going to be a while waiting to find out... might want to grab a Snickers.
I am resigned to the fact that Hue is probably gone after this year.
This sucks.
Serious!
You think Hue stays for the entire year.
He may resign out of pride
Hue should submit his resignation as OC...to himself.
So, even though Hue was a successful play caller before he came here........you think his play calling is the problem and the fact that we have a lawyer and a baseball guy making personnel decisions w/no prior experience in making evaluations of football personnel........you give them a pass and think the problem w/the team is play calling?
Brilliant!
Its pretty clearly both at the moment.
You dont get to 1-21 or whatever om accident.
The FO doesnt know what they are doing in acquiring talent and Jackson is not making things easier for the offense.
And may as well include Williams. Only so many times I can see him put Peppers at deep safety before I question what the hell he is doing.
So, even though Hue was a successful play caller before he came here........you think his play calling is the problem and the fact that we have a lawyer and a baseball guy making personnel decisions w/no prior experience in making evaluations of football personnel........you give them a pass and think the problem w/the team is play calling?
Brilliant!
Sorry I didn't address EVERYTHING that I think is a problem in one post. Obviously because I didn't mention the FO then I think they are doing a bang up job and give them a pass... they can resign too for all I care.
But I am curious where this long history of being a successful play caller comes from.
I'd say the only hope for Haslam selling the Browns is if he has huge gains from his other business holdings and for some reason it makes sense for him to sell the Browns at a loss to offset other gains.
Forbes sets Browns 2017 value at $1.95 Billion. Haslam bought them in 2012 for $1 Billion.
something else that is annoying to me: how often Crow stumbles or slips. It's like he's playing on ice. His feet can't stay with his body or something. The dude tackles himself.
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
TOP 5 GRADES: Edge Myles Garrett, 86.3 overall grade
DI Danny Shelton, 81.3 overall grade
CB Jason McCourty, 81.3 overall grade
G Kevin Zeitler, 79.0 overall grade
Edge Carl Nassib, 78.4 overall grade
PERFORMANCES OF NOTE: QB KEVIN HOGAN, 28.0 OVERALL GRADE The Browns’ have seen some pretty atrocious performances at the quarterback position, but Hogan’s first career start plumbed new depths. He threw three interceptions, lost a fumble and spiked the ball in his own endzone for a safety. Hogan managed a passer rating of only 44.0 without pressure against the Texans, showing wild accuracy throughout the entirety of the contest. Hue Jackson has proved capable of elevating the performance of signal-callers, Hogan is his most difficult project yet.
G KEVIN ZEITLER, 79.0 OVERALL GRADE The Browns’ most effective offensive strategy entirely revolves around free agent guard Kevin Zeitler. He has the strength to carve big lanes with crushing double teams on power, and the athleticism to cutoff pursuing linebackers on outside zone. Zeitler was also the only Brown serviceable in pass protection, managing a perfect game on 48 pass-blocking snaps. Unlike the rest of the unit, Zeitler adapted to the Texans’ frequent stunts up front.
EDGE MYLES GARRETT, 86.3 OVERALL GRADE Garrett stepped up in playing time, getting 33 snaps this week compared to 19 last week, and he stepped up his production to go with it. Just the one sack this week after a pair last week, but he racked up seven total pressures and added a pair of stops in the run game as well. Garrett showed well with greater exposure to the run game (14 run-defense snaps compared to 4 last week). Even greater playing time is surely just around the corner.
DI DANNY SHELTON, 81.3 OVERALL GRADE Shelton has been hot and cold in terms of production this season, but this week was another up-tick. 10 of Shelton’s 11 stops this season have come in two game against Indianapolis and Houston. He matched his season high with 5 stops today, getting the better of the Texans’ interior offensive line after being shutout last week by the Jets.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
If you get a head ache by hitting your head against the wall, then want to get rid of the pain ; Maybe you should stop banging your head ???
Pretty much sums up the Browns to me .. I have watched TE after TE , Team after Team destroy us ( usually a crossing route or down the seam ) . I think Haslam should hire am MIT Prof. to figure out the answer .. For certain no average DC is capable !
1-21 that is hard to do when the league stacks the deck so that the teams should all be competitive.
Unwatchable. The offense should be called something else. Maybe offensive is a better word. You get the feeling that a touchdown drive is impossible.
I feel for Joe Thomas. I would find it very hard to go through what is expected of a player for so long and be a part of this failure.
In fact I would not do it. I would have left during free agency.
Where to go from here?
Difficult question. Hue has to find the way to keep the team motivated. Not easy under these circumstances. The message has to be stale. The only way out is for the players to play better. Watching the game mistakes are glaring. People have to do their job. That goes all the way around.
The mentality has to be "it is on us".
There is no magic wand answer. This is not all on Hue Jackson. It is on Haslam and all the way to the last roster spot.
I can't believe that I am going to Cleveland this week from home in Reno. My expectations were to go to an Indians ALCS game and watch the Browns play the Titans.
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