DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Would any other NFL team not fire a 1-19 coach ?

I got to be honest, with the growing list of things - that play call on 4th down, the dive call, has really shook my feel with Hue.

I hope this is lingering and temporary, but wow how incredibly stupid. Waste a timeout and draw that up? And in his presser (I only saw the news headline for it), as if he needs to see the film to declare the next game's starting QB... I mean, really? Kizer was absolutely horrible, I'm not even a so-called QB guru and can tell you we won't win by now. Each and every time Hogan as went it, it's been night and day for the good.

As I said a bunch of times and even more emphasized, we need an OC to call the plays. A lot of his decision path and etc is really questionable.

Jackson revealed defensive players on the sideline urged him to go for it because even if the offense fell short of a first down, they were confident they could get a stop against the Jets (3-2) and quarterback Josh McCown deep in New York territory...

Well there's this^^^

I could have drew up a better play in under one minute than that dive play with Crow.

Where's Duke? Just one minor aspect why that was so stupid IMO

Hue not calling for the field goal settles it for me....poor decision.

Field goals, meh. 1-19 I am not kicking field goals to tie another bad team. I'm winning or losing, I'm not taking an 0-4 team to overtime unless I need a TD to tie it.


The play calling is a serious concern. An option on the goal line? From two players who NEVER ran options in college?

A sprint out?

David Njoku who is clearly a mismatch...BLOCKING on every play he was in the game while in the red zone? What the hell is going on? Not even in the game on the 1st redzone appearance?????

I don't think Hue really knows what he's doing. There's a ton of things you say "WTH" regarding him with when you sit back and really think about things.

I think he does know what he is doing. I do wonder if the FO knows what the hell they are doing.

Read the thread, what people are saying. Watch the games, take note of situations and etc. Watch the calling, personnel and etc.

Take it all in with no bad emoitions, and come back with the answer to this question:

Do you still think he knows what he's doing?

... maybe you do and you're very well entitled to think that thinking. I think I've seen enough. We have enough talent to not be winless right now. We have enough talent not to be the worst football product the league has to offer. Pretty sure I'm done watching Cleveland football for the season.

You, and others, can bash me and question my allegiance but there's next to no reason to watch this circus show anymore for the season. I'm a fan, but dang this is just an outright joke.

And note - I'm not saying the FO doesn't factor in either. Coleman, joke. MG, hurt a lot. Britt, joke. Other teams practice squad WRs are coming in and balling better than our own 2nd year WRs. Kizer is horrid and we had a slew of other options. Peppers isn't exactly failing, but not exactly living up to the pick. Other players are instantly tearing the league up. I get what you're saying there too.

I can read very well and I think that those who have your take are dead wrong.

I'm not bad-mouthing you. I am just disagreeing. I think the play design and play calls are fine. I think there is a talent/experience problem here.

I think that the plan was risky because it's tough to lose so many games. Blame typically gets assigned to those who are not deserving of the blame.

I think that is what is happening here.

<3

Turnovers and missed field goals cost us this game. Not Hue, not GW. Terrible execution by a young team and Crow taking his eye off the ball because he was either afraid of getting hit or was looking upfield for the score. No excuse for that fumble. Hogan's pass shouldn't have been thrown and the FG kicker needs to mature, settle, and get hig game under control. Aside from the brain-farted miscues, (including Hue's buckling under fan & player pressure) it was a good game.

They have to grow, they have to learn how to win, and we have to stay the course.

JMHO

He made calls like that last year which settled it for me then!!!

From this statement it would be appropriate to think you don't see any game day coaching issues - no coaching issues with regard to player development and that because Hue was a good OC in Cinci - he must be a good HC .... and most or all the issues are due to the roster? Is that the correct interpretation because that is sure how it reads.

Personally I see plenty of coaching issues and play call issues - not the least of which was going for a 4th and 2 instead of taking the 3 points and going 10-10 with about 11-12 minutes left to play in a game where your D had not played much and for the most part truly shut the other team down.

I also see plenty of issues with the roster - and issues with QB's who we passed on (Wentz and Watson) both looking like they may be legit franchise QB's. I'd say both have major question marks over them. I'd give both more time to improve and that includes next season ... but I'm not trying to blame the HC more than the FO - or vice versa.

Well everyone is hyping hogan right now, but guess who developed him?

Hue.

I think development is going as well as expected seeing as we have very little veteran leadership on this team.

You are aware of that, right? We have the most first and second year players in the league by a wide margin.

And the lack of experience on this roster falls square on the shoulders of the FO.

Frustration and anger are causing people to look for places to lay blame: Hue, the FO, GW, Kizer, Haslam, but they are failing to see the progress. We drove the field several times on a good D, and we held a productive O to 200 yards. Hue & GW made that happen and the FO put the players on the field. And whether some want to believe it or not, the team is getting better. It may take time to scrape out wins against teams who have been doing it longer, but they will come.

Great post.

We're currently 16th in passing yards per game, 11th in total passing yards, 3rd in passes completed of over 20 yards and 13th in sacks allowed. We're moving the ball, but struggling with efficiency.

The only thing holding us back is completion percentage (We're 31st, keeping in mind our receivers lead the league in dropping catchable passes at something staggering like 26%, per PFF), touchdowns (20th) and interceptions (leading the league with 11). This is why we're 30th in the league in points per game.

We're also 25th in average rushing yards, 23rd in total rushing yards but, admittedly, 19th in rushing attempts. We're 8th in rushing touchdowns but worst in the league in big runs - Only us and Arizona have failed to have a run of over 20 yards, as opposed to KC who have 9 over 20 and 3 over 40.

And, to put it simply, we're 5th best in total defense against. Even more remarkable considering we're not without struggles on that side of the ball and have been missing some of our best players.

That's already improvement over last year. Sadly, we're just not scoring points and turning the ball over too much. But we are moving the ball, and that's with a rookie QB and no half decent receivers, and we are playing strong on defense.

I understand people are angry we're not winning, but the process is working.

Nice. You beat me to it. I don't recall Hue ever proclaiming himself as a QB whisperer...others have labeled him as such to my recollection. We can spin his "Trust me" comment all we want...but that doesn't mean he holds HIMSELF as some QB-coach-God.

I'm very frustrated with Hue right now and with no desire to even think about canning him...none. Kizer isn't ready now...he wasn't ready two months ago...he won't be ready by the end of the year. Seemingly everyone on the planet except for Hue were of the opinion that he wasn't ready. Then Hue crafted an offense as if Kizer WERE ready. Baffling actually.

I'm not ready to give up on Kizer...hell...I'm not ready to give up on Kessler. Young, raw, flawed...all of them...not uncommon for 2nd & 3rd Rd QBs. Kizer is NOT likely to do anything to "win" back the starting job...it's questionable if he did anything to win it in the first place. He needs to sit...probably the rest of this year...at a minimum. Doesn't make him a bad pick or lost cause...he's just too raw. And the killer:

Hue should have known better and seen this before the season started. I give him another mulligan though. However, Hue is running very low on gameday-stupidity mulligans. He keeps doing things that only serve to support the notion that he has too much on his plate. The growing pains from this latest do-over includes those for Hue as a HC.

Here's to hoping Hogan pulls a Cousins.

I don't think he is perfect. And if you remember correctly, I was the one who cautioned many about him being this awesome coach and QB Whisperer.

I am being more vocal in my support of Hue because he is receiving a lot of blame and the FO and owner are getting passes from the majority.

I think Hue has made some mistakes, but then again, I think every coach makes mistakes. That includes BB.

I do think that our talent/experience level is a bigger factor in why we are losing than our coaching. I can't even believe this is a debate. Well, I can.......because I have seen this crap play out over and over and over. I even predicted this last year and again this off-season.

You keep questioning me while ignoring guys like Tony--who acts like Hue is a bumbling idiot. Thus, should I believe that you don't like Hue and think the FO is blameless? LOL....you feeling me?

Look, I've said this over and over...........but, we blew up the roster. You were fine w/that. You said it was smart. The owner and others said it was a multi-year rebuild. 2018 was the year where we are targeting for some tangible improvement.

I think y'all need to relax and let the plan play out, rather than assigning blame. This team is NOT ready to win and firing Hue will only lead to more problems.

It's time y'all wake the hell up!

Game. Set. Match.

I've chosen not to respond to Tony because I think his posts are nonsense. I responded to you because you say you like to talk football.

So what I hear you saying is that you're not posting what you think about football. Your posts and their content are more a reaction to everyone else's posts. If there's too much criticism of hue you stick up for him. If you percieve people giving too much support for the FO you knock them. . . . Maybe you can see why I try to ask what your actual football take is.

I happen to agree with what you said regarding Hue in this last post .... Nearly 100%. I don't think there are that many posters calling for hue to be fired. I think it's a vocal minority, like Tony for instance with dozens of dozens of posts with no content just angst and "fire Hue".

Huh ? Does that mean you want to fire Hue or not fire Hue ? I'm not following your Hue take.

I am talking football. I'm trying to. I tried to explain why I have defended Hue, but that is talking football.

More importantly, if you read my entire posts and even my sig...........you will see that I support keeping everyone employed for at least this year and next. I am hoping for one more year after that, but I don't want to get ridiculous in my requests. LOL

That's football talk, 888.

I'm getting tired........I would hate to turn my back on this franchise and this board, but man, some of the stuff on here is so old. I almost replied to the Post Game thoughts thread several times, but wisely thought better of it.

I think he is agreeing w/what I said that we need to let this play out and quit assigning blame and blowing things up. I could be wrong, but I kinda doubt it.

The problem with the fourth down call was the time out.
You have the momentum,your 0-4,line right up draw a penalty,or run outside.
I'm already planning this 3 plays ahead of time!
Hue must really be stressed..lol
He is not the problem,hasnt made many mistakes,but nobody's perfect.

Are your "Microwave People" direct decendents of the years ago "I want my Maypo crowd"?

Why The Browns Must Part Ways With Hue Jackson After This Season

TOPICS:BrownsHue Jackson

POSTED BY: VINCE MCKEE OCTOBER 10, 2017
While I’ve never been one to scream, “fire the coach”, it is getting harder and harder to be patient with Hue Jackson as he continues to tell everyone he is here to turn things around. No one expected the Browns to be a playoff team this year or even a .500 team, but we all expected a lot more then this display through five games.

Perhaps the most frustrating thing about Hue is that he continues to change his mind and flip-flop on every decision. The so-called “QB” guru told us to trust in his faith in Cody Kessler, the same quarterback he won’t even let take a snap this season and suit up for a game. Kessler is not the answer, but this is just one case of him saying one thing and doing another.

He told us he would ride his future quarterback of DeShone Kizer through the highs and lows, the thick and thin of his rookie season. Through four and a half games, he has already benched him once and continues to script plays that don’t give him a chance to win. He is making things far too complicated for the 21-year old rookie.

The QB flip-flopping took place all season last year. Yes, injuries played a major role but it was one bad decision after another. On Hue’s urging they signed RGIII after he had the best workout Jackson had ever seen. We all saw how that turned out. We trusted him with Robert Griffin and also Cody Kessler, two men who combined to win one game last season.

To make matters worse, they had a five-tool, All-Pro Quarterback sitting in their laps with Carson Wentz and chose not to pick him. Instead, they opted to trade the pick for injury-prone Corey Coleman. Yes, we can blame Sashi Brown for some of these decisions as well, but Jackson is the talent evaluator and should have known better.

For what it is worth, Wentz has also been a part of 21 games, his record slightly better then Hue’s at 11-10. Wentz has thrown 21 touchdown passes for 4,598 yards during that stretch. This was the QB that could have saved Jackson’s job before he even coached one single game for the Cleveland Browns. Jackson wanted RGIII.

The one time the front office was finally willing to take a stud quarterback with a high first round pick, the “coaching staff” talked them out of it, and they went with Myles Garrett instead. Once again, clearly Garrett was the smart choice, but here again is a clear example of the quarterback guru shying away from taking the impact QB when he is sitting right in his lap.

The verdict is still out on Mitchell Trubisky, as he made his first start Monday night at Minnesota for the Bears. Time will tell, but Jackson had the backing of the front office. He chose to shy away, opting to be the smartest guy in the room and selecting a project in the second round.

Thus, it continues.

By some stroke of pure luck, DeShaun Watson falls to the Cleveland Browns with the 12th pick in the 2017 draft. No trade needed, he is literally sitting right there waiting to put on a Brown and Orange ball cap and hug Commissioner Goodell. The Browns don’t do it. Again, blame the front office if you want, but I’m positive if your head coach demands the QB be selected it happens.

Through 5 weeks, Watson appears to be a stud. He has 12 touchdown passes and over 1,000 yards in just 4 NFL starts. Watson will get to show Jackson and the Browns first hand what they passed up on next week as the winless Browns travel to Houston to take on an angry Texans defense.

At the end of the day, Hue gave us all the biggest reason to want him gone this past Sunday against the Jets. Down 10-7 early in the fourth quarter, the Browns still had a chance to regain the lead and make Hue look like a genius for pulling Kizer at halftime. To his credit, Kevin Hogan put together a solid drive that got the ball inside of the ten yard line when a fourth and goal from the four-yard line arose.

At first choice, Jackson sent out his shaky field goal unit in the game to go for the tie. While Zane Gonzalez was 0-2, even he would be able to make the chip shot attempt. What happened next is unforgivable. Hue Jackson made the cardinal sin no coach, on any level, in any sport, should ever make. He listened to the fans!

While he may say something else, the cold hard truth is that he heard the boos of the fans when he didn’t go for it so he panicked and called timeout. Using a valuable timeout they would need later and not have. From there he pulled the field goal unit from the field and called the most predictable fourth and short play in the playbook.

Sure enough, the Jets read it and stuffed it. It wouldn’t take long for the Jets to drive 97 yards and put the game out of reach shortly after.

You cannot flip-flop, you cannot listen to the fans. He did both, and he got burned again. At the end of the day, in what other field could you go 1 for 21 and keep your job. MLB hitters can’t. NBA players can’t shoot 1 for 20 and not get let go. NHL goalies sure can’t save 1 of every 20 shots. A mailman can’t skip every 20 houses on his route. It is just insane to think that this is acceptable.

Since 2002 when the Browns made the playoffs, we have seen countless teams get completely blown up, start over and win a few short years later. Sure they did it with smart drafting and key free agents, but they also did it with coaching! Jackson needs to figure it out and fast.

If Mike Pettine, a glorified high school coach can win 7 games with a journeyman quarterback in Brian Hoyer, then Jackson can at least get 4 or 5 wins this season. Sadly for him, 3 of those chances just flew out the window.

I can already hear your arguments. One being the push for stability, you want stable losing then? Two, no one else will coach this team? Chris Palmer left the Browns in ruins after 00-01, going just 5 – 27 during his miserable stretch. Things looked bleak until Al Lerner ponied up and paid for the hottest college coach in Butch Davis to come to town. The same Butch Davis that led the Browns to their only playoff appearance since returning to the NFL in 1999.

Bottom line, the fans deserve better, the players deserve better and by God, the writers and media who cover this team deserve better. Enough of the losing. Hire a legitimate team president who will bring in someone who can properly evaluate talent.

I’m a reasonable man and willing to give him the next 11 games to ride this thing out. But I cannot imagine a single likely scenario that he makes through the middle of January.

Bring Peyton Manning in to be the president and let him hand select a coach, perhaps Tony Dungy? Hey, anything can happen. Only one thing is for sure, Hue Jackson shouldn’t be here to see it.

SHARE
TWEET
PIN
SHARE
Previous post Next post
ABOUT THE AUTHOR

I’d just as soon get rid of Vince ,.... and if were lucky he’ll take u with him ...;)

Sell the team and give the money to all Clevelanders.

lol

I don't think we are that far from winning if we can get rid of Hue and this goofy front office. The D looks like it will get better soon. We have to hit on a QB in the 1st rd. With a good coach and GM, we can start winning sooner than you think.

What a novel idea. We've never tried that before. No wonder we always lose. We always keep the coach and FO no matter what.

I could not stomach another year of Hue!!! He is all talk and no action. I stopped listening to him long time ago. Sashi probably pinches himself every day in disbelief that he hoodwinked Jimmy!!

Hue isn't doing anything wrong. Our talent just hasn't developed and they're clearly making mistakes in which it is completely unfair to place the onus on Hue Jackson to magically avoid such mistakes.

Our problem is perpetually failing to assemble a team because nobody ever gets a fair opportunity to do so. 22 games in and the fundamental core of our roster, comprised of young developing players, is playing like a young, undisciplined, mistake-making collective?

We can go ahead and file that under the "no s#%t" category.

That Texans team has seven of their starting 11 with experience of multiple years. Nick Martin and Will Fuller are in their second year. Deshaun is the only rookie. They have established All-pros, Pro-bowlers and high end talent across the board who carried both Brian Hoyer and Brock Oswieler to the playoffs. And it is the same story on defense.

Yeah, we're going to get beat down by teams who collectively have more experience on one side of the ball than we've got on both. And the vast majority of our second year players are only just now starting to get some serious playing time, like Joe Schobert and Derrick Kindred.

Those guys have been on the same team with the same coaches and the same front office for years. That's why Watson is throwing to wide open targets (Fuller and Nuk are both former first rounders) with fantastic protection and exceptional timing and consistency.

No matter how much young talent we have, it is impossible for a coach to consistently have these guys prepared to face such a well-oiled machine.

I don't understand why people get so insanely angry at Hue Jackson. He's all talk and no action? There is only so much action he can do with a bunch of kids who are desperately trying to learn how to do what they need to do.

This is not, and never was, a short term rebuild. It isn't Hue Jackson's fault that a young team is playing like a young team, nor is it his fault that some fans deluded themselves in to thinking this rebuild would be completed in under two seasons.

Keep Hue... start Kizer (Hogan got his shot and pooped it).

The Front office.. I could care less who they put in there.. It's all hit or miss. Just make sure whoever comes in does a thorough briefing with Hue on who he thinks is an asset to this team.

Would any other team not have a veteran QB signed up this week?

However it IS his job to recognize that the players on his roster aren't capable of performing his offensive scheme, and not adjusting for it. Keep chucking it downfield, come Hell or high water.

I watched the first few minutes of the Colts-Titans game and was reminded of how a simple offense can be played and be effective. We've had months to install Hue's offense, and it still looks lke a Chinese fire drill.

I'm glad somebody else gets it!!!! Hue lacks football wisdom!!!!

I don't know if I would go that far, but it seems like a lot of coaches he tries to run his system no matter what. I am just a fan, but it seems we should run a simpler offense, something our qb is more used too. Then he can increase the complexity as they show the ability and experience to handle it. It may too late in the season now though.

It's not like Hue isn't attempting it. One of the interceptions last week was when Hue's play design got Duke Johnson on a deep wheel route against a linebacker. It isn't Hue's fault that Kevin Hogan underthrew the pass that rightfully should have been damn near a touchdown with an accurate throw.

You could say the same thing about Deshone Kizer in previous weeks. He's had plenty of opportunities that he's missed. From leading Kasen Williams out of bounds in week one against Pittsburgh to Hogan's short lived chance to prove his value, we've simply painfully suffered from young, inexperienced quarterbacks.

Hue having months to get some quarterbacks with zero experience ready has been just as painful for him as it has been for you. But months isn't enough. For any other team, that just isn't enough.

I don't understand why people are so mad at Hue for this. Watch the tape - there are plays there to be made, but our young team isn't consistently making them. There is only so much he can do.

I watched the same game. The difference to me was that both qbs were far more accurate than ours and both were much quicker w/their decision-making than Kizer.

Firing Hue will not improve this offense. This offense lacks talent at the both QB and WR. The TEs have some talent, but are inexperienced.