DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns begin reaching out to football executives

I agree based on the current path the team is on.

Nobody can survive 1 -2 wins after two seasons. Unless something magically and dramatically changes, Haslam's going to get out the dynamite.

I'm not sure how the FO sells Haslam the idea it was a good plan to pass on Wentz and Watson. Meanwhile, Kevin Hogan is getting trotted out on Sunday while Watson is rubbing your nose in it.

I could be wrong, but if the current path continues, I think Jimmy's blows the whole thing up. Hopefully, he's lost Jed Hughes' phone number at Korn Ferry by now.

The cracks are already starting to crumble in the foundation between the coaching staff and FO. We've all seen this movie play out many times.

Quite frankly, at 1-21, ownership should be looking for outside help and questioning the plan (which I'm starting to wonder what exactly the plan actually is). Blow up the roster? Hell, my 8 year old could blow up a roster, you don't need to be savvy to cut a bunch of guys and gut a roster. That's the easy part.

I see absolutely no progress....anywhere.

Furthermore, when your own propaganda show run by the team (Cleveland Browns Daily) starts blasting the team, the coaching and the FO and openly discussing wholesale changes, you know things are bad.

Zegura and Jim Donovan discussed on-air today the awkwardness on the team airplane ride back from Houston when the Florio story broke.

Que sera sera. Just another year in Browns Town.

Houston has two good receivers... And a veteran team that almost beat New England in the second round last year with crappy QB play... I'm with you on this... I like Watson but don't think he'd be doing this in Cleveland this year... I figured he'd be good in Houston but I think even they are surprised how well he's doing

We need to quit rationalizing why passing on franchise QBs is acceptable. We're allowed to have nice things, too.

Well said.

We disagree and agree a lot, but here's a 100% agree. I wanted him bad. When we traded I was like, well there goes that.

Hooker would've been a nice "angel" as Williams calls to have in the back like Peppers is used. I guess Peppers can get better, but we seemed to have blew that one too.

These non-football clowns are watching Wentz win 7 of his last 8 games while Watson leads the league in TDS. Goff even looks good. Tribisky looks very promising. Fire these hoodwinkers Hue, Sashi, and Depo..get the H... outa here!!!!

We couldn't get Goff and Trubisky hasn't looked good yet. It looks really bad with Wentz and Watson thougg.

I often wonder that myself. I'm sure the scouts can't call out their management because that would be career suicide.. but yes, I'd love to know what the scouts big board looks like vs what we end up taking. I guess somebody within the organization knows.

This is a great truth. I've been frustrated seeing fans/media on Twitter getting really upset over Watson, but there were few people who felt passionate about him, much less predicted he would be this good so quickly.

The general consensus of the 2017 QB draft: Some interesting options, but they're all risks.

This is especially true of Watson. A lot of people were not happy with his weak passing results at the combine, his decision to skip the Senior Bowl (After the Browns were said to have worked hard behind the scenes to get him there, and Hue is said to have personally spoken to him about it) and concerns over his frame as he's not the biggest quarterback.

I still have my post-mock draft up on Twitter in which I had us taking Garrett and Watson but I don't feel much pride in it. I would be a liar if I said I expected Watson to look this good so soon. Garrett, totally, but not Watson.

I don't see anything wrong with what the Browns did. The quarterbacks in that draft were far from a sure thing, and getting two first round selections was an understandable decision.

Clearly it was Peppers and a first and second round pick in 2018.

Yeah, stock piling picks while missing out on needed components seems like a horrible idea. I hope he sees gathering some picks and losing on pieces that can actually make us a better football team has been something he did wrong. IMO Sashi is working him out of a job easily.

We could have had Goff but the Rams wanted him more.

See, it's thinking like these two posts that baffle me. Would his stats be as good? Probably not. But what does that have to do with having a talented QB? I think it's far too early to proclaim Watson some great QB. Wentz on the other hand is showing a lot more and is further along in his development.

But, point being. Some fans seem to think you need to build an entire team before you draft a top QB selection. The problem is, if your team is built you're probably going to win 5-7 games. That puts you in a position that you would have to give some top picks to move up in the draft to land such a QB. Why would you do that? When you draft high and one falls into your lap, you draft him! Period!

You can then build your team around that QB. Look, just because a QB's stat sheet wouldn't look as good here, you still have your QB. You still have his talent. You still have the same player. He isn't worse because we drafted him. Using the excuse we don't have the supporting cast to draft a talented QB is fools gold.

That is only if it's taken in the strict frame that we simply passed on those two QBs. While it does look like they STB, at the time there was no proof Wentz & Watson would come into the league and light it up. At the time of the draft in 2016, the FO was in the early months of their tenure with the plan to rebuild almost an entire team through the draft. That made draft picks highly valuable.

Cleveland Traded No. 8, 176 to Tennessee for No. 15, 76, and 2017 Second Round Pick (No. 52)
Cleveland Traded No. 77, 141 to Carolina for No. 93, 129, 168
Cleveland Traded No. 100 to Oakland for No. 114, 154

2016 picks:

No. 15 – Corey Coleman, WR, Baylor
No. 76 – Shon Coleman, OT, Auburn
No. 93 – Cody Kessler, QB, USC
No. 114 – Ricardo Louis, WR, Auburn
No. 129 – Derrick Kindred, S, TCU
No. 154 – Jordan Payton, WR, UCLA
No. 168 – Spencer Drango, OG, Baylor

2017

No. 25 – Jabrill Peppers, S, Michigan
No. 52 – DeShone Kizer, QB, Notre Dame

Houston's first round pick.
Philly's second round pick.

That's eleven picks for two, and includes two QBs. Again, remember hind sight is 20/20. Also remember it's not over yet (unless Haslam gets trigger happy). We now have the opportunity to draft a very good QB in 2018 from a very deep class, and have the assets and cap space to add playmakers to surround that QB. Patience is the key here. It's impossible to judge a half-baked cake.

(FTR I wanted Wentz, but not Watson, and the board was all over the map as well. Even the collective couldn't come up with a unified decision. It's not like Payton Manning or Andrew Luck were sitting there waiting for us and we just whiffed on it.)

Well I guess if you're waiting on the next Manning or Luck, we should only try to draft a QB once in every 15 years.

You do realize there is a group of people making seven figure salaries that get paid to figure this out, right? They're supposed to be far superior to some fans on a message board. If not, they certainly aren't earning their salary.

You know, like the guys who chose to move up to get these QB's we didn't draft have done?

Come on, Pit. I know you can read. I can tell by your smarmy responses. What part of "we drafted two QBs" don't you comprehend? And what part of "hindsight is 20/20" don't you understand? Also, what don't you get about the jury still being out? Hey, how's this: they wanted more picks instead of Wentz. They wanted more picks instead of Watson. That's their seven figure prerogative. Deal with it. If only the world lived by your sense of perfection, we wouldn't need message boards.

I wanted no part of Watson.

Shows what I know.

I hope that Kizer shows enough that we can take our 5 picks in the 1st 2 rounds next year and draft 2 WR, 2 CB, and another pass rusher.

I still don't.

I don't care what any of the present QB's show. IMO passing on top talent is a huge mistake any year. Take the BPA. QB or whatever. Sooner or later picks have to turn into great players and passing on top talent isn't the way. Even us stupid fans know this is true.

And they blew it.

His numbers speak for themselves
He's better than all the Browns qbs combined
Since 1999.

Let's just hope Kizer comes back with a fire and a purpose and hope we go 5-5 in our last 10 (Not saying we will) and all this talk of change goes away ...

But nobody can be sure what top talent is until it gets in the league. So it's pointless to dwell on past guys they didn't take. I think that one has to look at what is done with the guys the team actually has on it.

So is almost every other QB in the NFL, including Kap.

We don't know that yet.

Fair enough... but one of those "few people" was in the Texans front office. He was so passionate, in fact, that he was willing to give up the #25 pick and next years first (in the allegedly deep QB draft) to move up 13 spots to get him.

So I have to admit, I don't really care what the concensus on this board was or within the talking head media or among draft prognosticators.. somebody within the Texans organization saw what others did not, acted on it, and it really looks like it is going to pay off.

Just like we traded back and gave away Carson Wentz, took Kody Kessler instead of Dak Prescott, failed to sweeten the pot enough to get Mariota, passed on David Carr.. and the list goes on and on and on...

At some point the "well that wasn't the conventional wisdom at the time" becomes a really lame excuse.. as other teams get better and build around their young QBs.. and we do not.

What the hell do we pay all of those scouts and front office people for if all they are going to do is play it safe and follow the "conventional wisdom"? We could save a crap ton of money and just draft according to Kiper's big board if that's what we want to do.

I don't blame the fo for passing on Watson. He sucked and still sucks just been lucky getting away with horrible passes. Mason Rudolph was my top qb last year and he went back to school.

Hooker couldn't pass a physical and we passed on him. Guy we wanted went to KC before we could grab him.

As for Wentz, never saw him as a top 20 guy but late first development guy.

It was just another low-risk pick in a line of low-risk moves to try to hit a homerun for that position. Kessler, RG3, McCown... low risk moves to try to somewhat stabilize the position and buy time.

If Kizer was "their guy" they would have moved on him sooner (similar to the Chiefs liking and moving to take Mahomes). At the time our FO took Kizer, they liked the risk-reward. I support that general way of thinking, but I admit that the execution can be argued.

Watson was there for the taking, and we passed. Without allowing the benefit of hindsight, I get it. Watson had his warts coming out. Hooker is the real miss there. I remember they said that they wanted him, and FS is a big hole as well on this team. Not getting Hooker when they could was (IMO) what they were wringing their hands over. In the end, they heavily valued an additional #1 pick in a class that should be heavy in good QB prospects.

I admit to not being overly impressed with him, and if he were to be playing for us at this moment, I doubt he would be any improvement over Kizer/Hogan...

3-1 TD-Int and less than 250 yds against us does not impress me much either.

They rightly identified a huge need when they reached out to Tony Jefferson in the offseason. Failing to get him, as he opted sign with the Rats, (even though we offered him more money), they had the perfect opportunity to fix the position with a draft pick when Hooker fell to them at #12.

I knew for certain they would take Hooker giving us two impact players with the first two picks. I was astounded when they passed on him for a trade-down.

After going hard for Jefferson how could they pass on Hooker?

Fair question...

Some have started Watson bust for Canton all ready .... can u say RG3 or Colin Kaperdumbass? ....

They both had their busts started after their first year ... only took Watson 4 games ...

Its frustration from them just like it is from U my friend ... id say u have a bad tude when it comes to our dawgs ... i understand bro ... it’s VERY VERY HARD ...

I was not high on Watson coming out ... draft day said he had the best shot at producing this year cause of the team he went too ...

I’m not near as impressed with him as some ... and he has not played near as good as the media is portraying ... but he has been better than i thought and with his work ethic, desire and the fact he HATES LOSING and gets it done in crunch time .... hes got a much better shot then i ever thought .... and i’ll Always root for him cause hes a great guy .... he’s an INCREDIBLE human being ...

Those saying we blew it on Wentz .... hindsight’s 20/20 AND if Wentz came here ... he’d be a shadow of what he is his now if he was even still alive ... he may have literally gotten him killed if he played here last year ...

I've watched Watson for a couple of games and when he wasn't throwing to a wide open Hopkins or Fuller, he was being bailed out by Hopkins or Fuller when he threw jump balls into the endzone.

I'm not impressed at all.

Your entitled to your opinion ... i think some are going way overboard with their praise ... i think your being to harsh with your criticism ...

But thats just me ...

Yes we do....

Wentz went 7-9 2016 5-1 2017.

Watson. NFL record..Most passing touchdowns in a single game by a rookie quarterback: 5. He beat the Browns. He played very well against the Patriots, and KC. We blew it again.

Sorry. It's not over yet. I don't care what Wentz has done. The FO made a deal and didn't take him. I'm sorry if that makes you sad. I wanted him too. But since it's still not over we don't know if they blew it or not.

We have five picks in the first two rounds of the upcoming draft, with two of those picks coming from the trade-downs. The upcoming draft is deep with good QBs. So unless you can build a time machine and can go back and convince them to do things differently, it doesn't matter what they did, only what they're going to do.

It's easy to pound your fist and say they blew it, but that's not accurate it's just a premature assumption. They did what they thought was best to rebuild the team and they're still not finished. Sure we might have had Wentz, but we'd also have ten fewer players, including a shot at a QB from this year's class. As of right now, you don't know if that's a better decision or not. We need more time to determine that.