DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Roger pulls a 180

I've jumped into many discussions on your side... but I don't respond to every post from everybody. Stop keeping score.


I do have trust in law enforcement as an institution.. with the understanding that as a large institution, it's going to have its bad apples... it's also going to have generally good people who make mistakes.. when something bad does happen, it gets a ton of attention and overshadows the 1000 good things that happened....

But then I feel the same way about the minority community.. exactly the same way...

Would it be reasonable to expect more out of the community that we trust to protect and serve us than a <insert race here> community? Cops are held to a very high standard. So is our nation's military. When they do things wrong, people are critical of them because they expect a higher level from them. I assume you yell at Hogan/Kizer a lot louder than you yell at UMD's QB, right?

WOW .... Thank U so much for that ... WOW ...

From the bottom of my heart .... THANK YOU!!

thats awesome. i, however, do not feel that way about law enforcement, or government agencies in general.

it's amazing how the "Few bad apples" always seem to find their way to poor white and minority communities. you rarely hear about these "bad apples" in neighborhoods where you live, affluent, mostly upper middle/wealthy class areas.

so to me, it's less "bad apples" and more "cops know the areas where they can get away with their BS".

oh, and i wouldn't have to keep score if you held the same standard to everyone as you do with me. but you don't, so as such, i will keep score as much as i feel like it.

Not even close to what Diam did ... its how U took it, not as it was intended ...

I’m not a POS ... i don’t laugh at others problems ...

You’ve made a lot of things clear and cool ...

One of the things you’ve made PERFECTLY CLEAR:

Devils post was SPOT ON ...

THANKS AGAIN DEVIL ...

I’ll be back later to thank u again ...

Next time for your service ...

Atta boy ... snippets are a wonderful thing, u just proved my point about Devils post being SPOT ON!

not really. you did prove mine, though. and you continue to do so.

So your say if a white cop shorts a minority in cold blood then somehow in some way it's every white cop in America's fault. They should ALL be blamed and mistrusted.

You know that sounds exactly like the clan feels about non whites.

No. Absolutely not. I don't feel that way about cops.

However, I do think it'd be a good start to look at that police's district and their policies and procedures. Especially in places where riots ensue. As the great MLK once said, "A riot is the language of the unheard." What's happening there, where the citizens feel like they have to riot or protest? If we get those answers settled, then could we possibly look at other locations that have the initial practices set up, so we can avoid more bloodshed?

All I'm looking for in life are ways to improve myself. I believe very strongly in self-improvement. I also believe that we should try to improve the things we are apart of, whether that be businesses, clubs, teams, or the government. But it's only in the last area, where people see constructive criticism as blind hatred. America is a great place to live. But it can keep improving. Everything can keep improving. That's the point of life. So please don't see my criticism as hate. I don't hate cops, far from it.

After over 40 years being a die hard Browns fan it took several brow beatings from my wife and friends to put things into perspective. I'm no longer ENTERTAINED by the Browns. I haven't been for 17 years. Hell, if the board still existed on the official Browns site, I could just copy and paste posts from every year and they fit, only the names have changed.

I haven't been sociable on Sundays in years being pissed watching the Browns and the kneeling turned it into disgust.

My fantasy team went to crap when David Johnson and Odell went down for the year and Ben threw 5 picks to the Jags. It turned into the Browns, an easy victory for the other team. I still field a team so my commitment to the fantasy league is there.

NBA is ruined.
NFL is on its way out.
But we still got HOCKEY!!!

....

Thanks for that man ... funny as all hell ...

U need to go post that in the football forum ...

I'd like to know about the platform they are talking about, but yeah, that would be a good thing.

I never liked them sitting or kneeling for the National Anthem.. But I accept that they have the right to do it.

The President calling them out and making a big deal out of it only put a spotlight on it. Most players were not doing it, The president opens his mouth and they all do it.

Brilliant.

Only a Liberal would poo poo the President of the United States for standing up for Patriotism, Veterans, First Responders and the Flag.

how come he didn't stand up for patriots when he dodged the draft?

Of course you do!

The NHL is composed of 93% of players who designate themselves as white.

40 I'll help you out..........Just tell swish this..."Because he was liberal then."

The guy served 9 months as Commander in Chief and continues to serve as head of all our Military and Swish has yet to thank him for his service.
Shame!

you see this, PS? 40 has done so much stretching that he can do a split, now.

Answer me this riddle then, If you were still in the Army today, who would you be working for? Yep, Trump, Commander in Chief.
Apologize and Thank him for his service!

...

Could u imagine if the trumpster bought the browns ... this forum would be boring ... *LOL* ..

Do they find their way to those neighborhoods on purpose out of some superiority or racial motive.... or do they work in those neighborhoods for so long that they become jaded and develop biases that they didn't start with and never intended to have?


Oh you can feel free to keep score all you want.. but I'm pretty sure I get 1 point every time I jump in on your side and a 5 point deduct every time I disagree with you... so I'm never going to be ahead. But that's ok, I'm just going to keep doing what I do.

We need to buy these men a beer ... great pic on the link ...

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/10/16/roofers-in-maine-stop-work-to-respect-national-anthem-flag.html

Roofers in Maine stop work to respect national anthem, flag

Three Maine roofers put their hammers down and stood up to show respect for the national anthem on Saturday, in the process unknowingly posing for a photo that's been used to symbolize one side of the contentious nationwide debate about "The Star-Spangled Banner."

The roofers, who were working near Waterville High School’s football field, stood for the national anthem “even though they didn’t have to,” Michelle Lyons Cossar, the Old Town resident who snapped the photo, told Fox News on Monday.

While Cossar was standing for the anthem prior to the start of Saturday’s game, she said she heard someone in the stands point out the workers had also risen.

“When I looked over the fence, I saw them standing and respecting the flag,” she said.

That’s when she decided to take a picture.

“I just thought the world could use a little more of that right now,” she added.

Cossar’s photo has been shared nearly 600 times as of Monday afternoon.

The three men in the photo are Dwayne Harrison, Danny Thyng and James Scruggs, according to Cossar. The trio didn't immediately respond to a request for comment.

Shanon Gurski Dixon, a resident of Waterville, shared the Cossar’s picture to her Facebook page. She told Fox News she hopes to one day find and thank the men for “being such good role models to our youth.”

Real Men, not phony hero's.

Y’all talk about disrespect of the military when this man disrespects our military everyday he is in office. Didn’t say a damn word about these special forces soldiers dying, yet when pressed tries to blame obama.

Trump falsely says Obama did not call families of dead soldiers

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-falsely-says-obama-not-call-families-dead-soldiers-192604187.html

n an attempt to defend his lack of public statements about four soldiers killed in Niger, President Trump falsely claimed that previous presidents did not call the families of dead soldiers — name-checking former President Barack Obama specifically as one of those who did not.

“I’ve written them personal letters,” Trump said at a press conference. “They’ve been sent or they’re going out tonight, but they were written during the weekend. I will at some point during the period of time call the parents and the families, ‘cause I have done that traditionally.”

“The traditional way, if you look at President Obama and other presidents, most of them didn’t make calls, a lot of them didn’t make calls,” he added.

Four United States Army Special Forces soldiers were killed and two more were injured in an ambush by Islamic extremists earlier this month. Despite Trump’s comments, Obama did call the families of fallen soldiers.

Trump was later pressed on the false claim, but he declined to walk it back.

“I don’t know if he did,” Trump said of Obama in particular. “No, no no. I was told that he didn’t often and a lot of presidents don’t, they write letters.”

“I do a combination of both,” he continued, referencing both writing letters and calling. “Sometimes it’s a very difficult thing to do, but I do a combination of both. President Obama, I think probably did sometimes and maybe sometimes he didn’t, I don’t know, that’s what I was told.”

“All I can do, all I can do is ask my generals. Other presidents did not call, they’d write letters. And some presidents didn’t do anything. But I like the combination, I like — when I can — the combination of a call and also a letter.”

White House spokeswoman Sarah Sanders was asked on Oct. 6 why Trump had yet to make any statements about the U.S. troops slain in Niger.

“I made a statement on behalf of the administration yesterday in the opening,” she said according to a White House transcript. “Obviously, anytime one of the members of our great military are injured, wounded, or killed in action, that is certainly something that we take very seriously. Our thoughts and prayers are with those individuals.”

On Monday, former Obama aides Alyssa Mastromonaco and Dan Pfeiffer responded on to Trump’s claim, calling him a “deranged animal” and “a deeply disturbed ignoramus who is a pathological liar,” respectively. Another former Obama staffer, Ben Rhodes, also condemned the “outrageous and disrespectful lie.”

Backlash: Week 6 of the NFL Reveals Several Nearly Empty Stadiums As Fans Continue to Leave the League

http://www.breitbart.com/sports/2017/10/...s-leave-league/



The NFL likely hoped for a return to normalcy for Week 6, especially after Commissioner Goodell’s call to “move past the anthem controversy,” and address the issue in detail at league meetings on Tuesday. Instead, what the NFL got was a return to what has become the “new normal” in the age of anthem protests: empty seats.

Throughout the league, stadiums could be seen with thousands of empty seats at kickoff, and, in some cases in the middle of the game.

Here is a pic with several empty, or near empty stadiums at kickoff on Sunday:





Bradley Wilson @brad_gohornsbkw

Kickoff and empty seats in #NFL
1:14 PM - Oct 15, 2017

288 288 Replies
905 905 Retweets
1,388

Note, that the Jets played New England on Sunday, meaning there should have been a big crowd for that game. The Texans, Atlanta, and Baltimore are also very relevant teams with relatively loyal fan bases. Yet, thousands upon thousands of fans no-showed or didn’t buy tickets for those games.

Here’s a shot of the Jaguars stadium at kickoff:

Fistful of Doom @fistfulofdoom





You know who isn't winning? The NFL. This was kickoff time in Jacksonville. Look at those empty seats! pic.twitter.com/fd7CwOuHk4
4:26 PM - Oct 15, 2017




Granted, this is Jacksonville and they’ve never really packed the house. Yet, even by Jaguars standards, that’s empty. The fact that those same levels of emptiness can be seen at other stadiums throughout the league, means that the fan backlash against the NFL has now turned everyone into Jacksonville.

That’s a problem.

I haven't watched an NFL snap since week 2... not at a stadium, not on TV.

So you just come around here to see me

You, Swish, and WobblySpiral... my favorites.

I actually don't mind the convos with you. You're a pretty knowledgeable guy and there are times we disagree but I still learn something new anyway. That's about as productive as things get in Palus Politicus.

Which led to this :


‘A Soulless Coward’: Coach Gregg Popovich Responds to Trump
In an exclusive here at The Nation, the Spurs coach speaks about Trump’s latest outrage.
By Dave Zirin


We’ve all seen the San Antonio Spurs’ future Hall of Fame coach Gregg Popovich in a state of exasperation on the sidelines, or in postgame news conferences. Many of us have also heard him speak with great vexation and clarity about the direction of this country and the actions of Donald Trump, particularly on Trump’s “disgusting tenor and tone and all the comments that have been xenophobic, homophobic, racist, misogynistic.” But I have never heard this man more frustrated, more fed up, and more tense with anger than he was today.

Coach Pop called me up after hearing the president’s remarks explaining why he hadn’t mentioned the four US soldiers killed in an ambush in Niger. Trump said, “President Obama and other presidents, most of them didn’t make calls, a lot of them didn’t make calls. I like to call when it’s appropriate, when I think I’m able to do it.”

Maybe it was bald-faced nature of this lie. Maybe it is Pop’s own history in the military, but the coach clearly had to vent. He said, “I want to say something, and please just let me talk, and please make sure this is on the record.”

Here is what he said:

“I’ve been amazed and disappointed by so much of what this president had said, and his approach to running this country, which seems to be one of just a never ending divisiveness. But his comments today about those who have lost loved ones in times of war and his lies that previous presidents Obama and Bush never contacted their families are so beyond the pale, I almost don’t have the words.”

At this point, Coach Pop paused, and I thought for a moment that perhaps he didn’t have the words and the conversation would end. Then he took a breath and said:

“This man in the Oval Office is a soulless coward who thinks that he can only become large by belittling others. This has of course been a common practice of his, but to do it in this manner—and to lie about how previous presidents responded to the deaths of soldiers—is as low as it gets. We have a pathological liar in the White House, unfit intellectually, emotionally, and psychologically to hold this office, and the whole world knows it, especially those around him every day. The people who work with this president should be ashamed, because they know better than anyone just how unfit he is, and yet they choose to do nothing about it. This is their shame most of all.”

Then he said, “Bye, Dave.” And that was it. Should be one hell of an NBA season.

_____________________________

With this, I assume he'll go after Pop next. And whoever follows Pop. And the next, and the next, and the next....

His default setting is conflict.
His default approach is attack.
And he's been around long enough for even ordinary folk like me to see a clear, consistent, and easily recognized pattern of behavior.

Here is something to think very carefully about:
With every #meangirltweet, petty fight and public utterance, our enemies get yet another chance to refine their profile of him- the simplest, thickest card player at the World Table. If you don't think they see this guy as a thoroughly exploitable U.S. security liability, then the next big attack on us will come as a surprise to only you. I can already feel it coming.

This is not what anyone should want in a POTUS.

People from every walk and station of life are lining up against this "man" for a myriad of reasons, but the source of their unanimity is always the same. That should tell us all we need to know.

When I see him in action, I fear for our country.
When I see the breadth and depth of resistance to him, I maintain my hope in America.

Well said and I completely agree.

And here’s a hero:

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/mccain-slams-h...topstories.html

McCain is accepting the Liberty Medal.

Watch his speech bro. What a beautiful speech. That’s how real hero’s look and act like. Real leaders.

Not finger pointing draft dodgers.

Roger Goodell pens letter to NFL teams regarding national anthem protests
Goodell said that he believes all players should stand for the anthem, but understands player rights

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/roger-goodell-pens-letter-to-nfl-teams-regarding-anthem-protests/

The NFL has oscillated a lot regarding their stance on players kneeling. While the league as an entity has steadfastly said that it would prefer that players would stand united, it has also acknowledged that players have the right to protest during the anthem. NFL owners have been perturbed by the fan response, and have started giving players ultimatums regarding the anthem. Jerry Jones told players to stand during the anthem or sit during the game, whereas Adam Gase and the Dolphins told players to stand or stay in the locker room until game-time.

Furthermore, NFL owners will be meeting to discuss making standing during the national anthem mandatory. The move would undoubtedly be controversial -- the First Amendment has been a major sticking point throughout the debate -- but as the NFL is technically a business it would be a long battle if the NFL Players Association wanted to pursue the move as a freedom of speech violation.

Total class on display.

Dude's the kind of person I was raised to admire and support.
Which is why I can be a fan of both John McCain and Barack Obama... and have total disdain for the 'Electoral Miscarriage Of Circumstance' we have now.

just clickin', but I know you're a fan of these Fox News opinion pieces

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/10/1...uarterback.html

Gregg Jarrett: Colin Kaepernick's case against the NFL is as lame as his skills at quarterback

Colin Kaepernick’s newly-filed grievance accusing the NFL of colluding or conspiring against him is a legal “Hail Mary.”

He and his lawyers stand little chance of winning because both the law and the facts are against him.

The Facts

Kaepernick used to be an outstanding quarterback. Selected by San Francisco in the 2011 draft, he led the 49ers to the Super Bowl in the 2012 season and the NFC Championship game the following year. And then, he seemed to implode.

Over the next two years, his throwing arm regressed and his overall skills as a rushing quarterback diminished. Injuries only made matters worse. The team finally gave up on him, and he was benched during the 2015 season. He never recovered. It did not help that Kaepernick was twice fined by the NFL for inappropriate language and behavior. He tended to be selfish and tempestuous.

--
Kaepernick seems oblivious to the fact that he does not have the right to play in the NFL. No one does. It must be earned. And not just on the playing field, but elsewhere.
--

Kaepernick was already collecting bench splinters when he began his one-man protest of the national anthem and the American flag in the 2016 pre-season. So, let’s be clear: he was never punished by the 49ers or the NFL for sitting or kneeling. He was not starting games or playing much as a back-up quarterback because, quite simply, he was no longer good enough.

Only then did he decide, all on his own, to quit the 49ers in March of 2017. He chose to opt out of his contract with the club, making himself a free agent. Since then, no other NFL team has showed much interest in signing him.

The Law

Contract law governs Kaepernick’s “grievance” filed by his lawyer, Mark Geragos, against the NFL. He alleges that teams conspired to prevent Kaepernick from being signed with a club as “punishment” for precipitating other anthem protests. Geragos claims his client was “denied employment based on partisan political provocation.”

The case against the NFL and its teams is based on Article 17 of the Collective Bargaining Agreement negotiated by the players and the league. It states, in relevant part:

“No Club shall enter into any agreement, express or implied, with the NFL or any other Club… to restrict or limit individual Club decision-making on whether to offer or not offer a Player Contract to any player.”

In order to prevail, Kaepernick and his legal team would have the burden of proving, “by a clear preponderance of the evidence,” that two or more teams conspired to keep him out of the NFL. Does he have such proof? It is highly doubtful.

Will any club executive or owner come forward to say he verbally agreed with another team to exclude Kaepernick? Is there some incriminating document or email reflecting the same? Unlikely. It is more likely that teams made individual assessments about Kaepernick and concluded that he was not worth signing for a variety of reasons.

Since the case goes to arbitration under the Collective Bargaining Agreement, Kaepernick’s lawyers cannot subpoena documents nor can they compel witnesses to testify. So, good luck locating the evidence, assuming it even exists.

But most importantly, Section 6 of the CBA’s Article 17 states that “failure to sign a player…shall not, by itself or in combination only with evidence about the playing skills of the player, satisfy the burden of proof.”

In other words, Kaepernick cannot prove collusion by simply arguing that he is qualified, yet remains unsigned by any football team. It is not enough to win his case against the NFL.

The fact that he elected to leave the San Francisco 49ers voluntarily, while still under contract, undermines his already weak case. Opting out of his contract because, arguably, he thought the team would eventually cut him from the club, counts only as speculation. What he believes or suspects might have happened is of little consequence in such legal proceedings.

Kaepernick seems oblivious to the fact that he does not have the right to play in the NFL. No one does. It must be earned. And not just on the playing field, but elsewhere.

If any teams feels that a potential player might prove disruptive in the locker room or destructive on the playing field, or even if a club believes that fans will react negatively to a particular player, the team is well within its rights to decide not to hire that player.

Perhaps this is why a few quarterbacks who may have inferior skills to Kaepernick’s have found positions as second and third-string back-ups. Teams invariably make their player decisions based on need, skills, leadership, and the ability to coalesce with other players.

Temperamental quarterbacks who are lacking those qualities sometimes find themselves watching NFL football games at home.

Just like Colin Kaepernick.

You show up here on a NFL team forum and claim you don't watch football and claim the political forum here is basically full of non-productive threads...which can be true I agree but not always. Just wondering what you are trying to accomplish here, because posting football that you admit you don't watch anymore your credibility will be questioned. And talking politics is pretty much non productive. so....?

And yet Kap is better than almost every QB the Brown's have fielded since 99

To bad hes made him self unsignable ...

Self inflicted wound ...

On the bright side he has more time to get out in the community to help his cause .....

It's very odd that you expect an explanation for why I post here. That said, others might find it insightful. Check the year I joined: 2007. That was probably the height of my NFL fandom, and I had read the old Browns DawgTalk board for long before that. I'm not sure if I ever posted there but if I did, it was very little.

Over the years, I had remained an NFL fan but the amount I watched slowly, but surely, dropped. Sometimes people stake out sides between the greedy owners and entitled players. I have my own view on that-- both descriptors are accurate! They have taken passionate, loyal NFL fans for granted.

The NFL product has declined significantly at the same time where other forms of entertainment are readily available to take its place. Couple that with our beloved Browns that are just hard to watch, and maybe you can understand where I am coming from.

While I am no fan of Colin Kaepernick, his act of kneeling actually turned me off far less than when Isaiah Crowell posted this picture (NSFW: Violence) on his Instagram. Oh sure, he made his token apology, met with the police, and offered to donate a game check, but the damage had been done.

This was right around the time when a black supremacist in Dallas killed 5 police officers in cold blood with the stated goal of killing white people. The NFL rejected the Cowboys' request to wear a decal honoring the slain members of the Dallas Police Department. Then when the Anthem protests really kicked off this year, there was Isaiah Crowell, kneeling during one anthem and giving the black power salute during another.

Then many other players joined he and Mr. Kaepernick in one way or another and I was done. Not just generally turned off by the greedy owners and entitled players, not just bored by a declining product, not disheartened by my beloved team constantly losing... but thoroughly disgusted by hundreds of players in the league.

Judging by the pictures posted above, it seems I'm not alone with that sentiment.

As far as posting here: I've posted here for many years and lurked for years before that. I check here frequently and do enjoy the camaraderie between many posters. Sometimes I get caught up in the politics section but at the same time, I understand that there's a lot of hostility and arguing, and not so much compromise or understanding the other side. Arguing about politics on here is unproductive, pointless, and we'd probably all be better off finding something better to do with our time. Do you disagree?