DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The quiet emergence of Shon Coleman

shhh....

Not entirely Colman's fault or an indication of inability to protect the passer.

Thomas has been near perfect in pass protection producing a pass-block efficiency of 98.1. He has surrendered just six pressures on 231 pass block snaps. Impressively enough, only one of those pressures resulted in a hit on the quarterback and he has not allowed a sack on the season. Thomas has blocked for a pair of quarterbacks that don’t make his job any easier, between the two we have charged them with eight sacks through five weeks. Thomas’ 90.2 pass block grade also ranks first among the position.

Nobody else on that list has to contend with a guy like Joe Thomas. As well as Coleman is playing, he can't hold off a defender as long as Joe Thomas can. It doesn't help that Bitonio and Zeitler are also playing at absurdly high levels.

We saw this a few years ago when Mitchell Schwartz was playing at a pro-bowl level, except he was amongst the worst in the league in sacks allowed and pressures surrendered. If I recall, it was something brutal like 19 sacks allowed. When people questioned why he was adored in spite of the laughable statistics against him, it was pointed out that every other line divides pressures and sacks between the players on the line - In Cleveland, Joe isn't going to divide them. Whoever is at right tackle, he can't consistently hold of pressure as long as Joe Thomas can.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-no-surprise-here-joe-thomas-leads-the-nfls-tackles-again

quiet emergance of the guy selling peanuts in the balcony..bla bla

then Pow! we lose by 27 points

hue says we lost by a little..and we say your right....lame

So first he was great. Now people are using excuses why he isn't?

I'm never ceased to be amazed.

I just think the hype on him is silly. When looking at the pressures he's given up combined with the penalties, this isn't some "quiet emergence".

Now don't get me wrong. That doesn't mean the kid can't improve and become a legitimate RT. He does have some limitations with his footwork that will need improvement for him to accomplish that.

But when you actually look at his play, he's got a long way to go.

We've all seen players who have developed into legit. average starters and we've seen players who just never did. The jury is still out on this kid.

But to try to hype a guy that's not even close to there yet is just silliness.

Joe Thomas. Man is just beyond legend.

Coleman will be fine. I'm impressed so far and it's his first (full) season. Let's let our drafted players play and take their lumps. Coleman is not part of the problem at present - when he becomes so, we've turned a real corner.

I don't think anyone thinks he's great nor is making excuses why he isn't great. He's a very talented young tackle who is amongst the most promising young right tackles in the league, but at this stage it is more just a really promising start.

He's only seven games in to his career - but he's already the 44th overall tackle in the NFL, per PFF. Out of 64 starting tackles, I'll take the kid already being in the middle of the pack.

A guy this young, he'll obviously continue to improve: How much, we don't know yet, but if he can improve to being in the top half of the year by the end of the season, I'll be thrilled with that.

You can use those ratings if you like. The problem is he's currently very high on allowing pressures and has been called for holding penalties in four games in a row.

People seem to use PFF as some kind of gospel when the fact is Coleman has given up the fourth highest pressures of an OT in the NFL and gets called for holding in every game.

Hey look, I want the kid to develop as much or more than any Browns fan. But he's got a long way to develop and with all of the pressures he's given up and penalties he's had, he's really not playing very good right now.

And that's another thing. You do know that not every young player improves, right? If that were so, we would be one of the best teams in the NFL with all of the draft picks we've had. lol

Who on here is saying he is great? The Versatile Dog-type hyperbole does not suit you well.

I'm just following what seems to be the common theme in this thread. Exaggeration.

Fair enough, I guess. Hey bro, I'm just looking out for you. You're an awesome poster...I'd hate for you to fall into that trap!

m. Schwartz first year he was bad. he struggled and was criticized a lot. three years later our front office was crucified on here because they let Schwartz, who by then was the greatest right tackle in the league, get away. this is coleman's first year playing and he probably compares favorably in performance to ms his first year. no reason to think shon cannot do the same thing. we have real holes to fill and should focus on them.

No he wasn't. He struggled in his second year in Norv Turner's offense and those seven step QB drops. It required him and any other lineman to protect longer.

You obviously missed my post where I said he may develop and be serviceable as an average RT. That very well may happen.

The problem I have is where people have him rated now. And how they think he's doing so well, now.

And I keep hearing how we should focus on other problems. Well I wasn't the one who started this thread praising Coleman, I'm simply commenting on the thread.

and BTW- not all players progress. Coleman could end up being an average RT. He also may not. The jury is far from being in on that one yet.

He is already the best run blocker on the team. Hands down.

His pass blocking is getting there as well. It seems to improve each week.

Every o-lineman holds. Young o-lineman get caught doing it.

We got plenty of suck on this team to point out, why point out something that isn't there?

I'm not treating PFF as gospel, I'm just suggesting we consider options that control some of the variables that pressures don't account for.

For example, Watson has allowed one less pressure than Coleman but is playing for a team that has 54 passing attempts less that we do. That's almost two games worth of passing. Odhiambo plays for Seattle. They have thrown only 179 passes. We've thrown 234. That's a difference of 55 passes. That's legitimately two games worth.

Wetzel and Velhdeer both play for the same team. Pretty embarrassing to give up 20 pressures while another guy on the line has given up 22 himself. Thus why I mention the greatness of Joe Thomas; There is no pass protector in NFL history who can hold off a blocker as long as Joe Thomas can.

Nate Solder has less pressures than Coleman, but he's blocking for Tom Brady, who gets the ball out of his hands quicker than any other quarterback in the league. Our young quarterbacks have both had issues holding the ball.

All those blockers, except Giacomini (Houston) are blocking for veteran, franchise quarterbacks that include the likes of Stafford, Palmer, Brady, Wilson and Siemien. Coleman is blocking for Hogan and Kizer - Our quarterbacks aren't on the same level of pressure recognition to know when a quick pass, hot or check is warranted. That could also apply pre-snap when setting protections. Issues such as the Patriots completing 65% of passes while we are dead last at 54% would influence pressure if our quarterbacks aren't hitting quick passes, thus it is inevitable some pressure and incomplete passes are due to missed early reads.

All those blockers are veterans with the exception of Coleman and Odhiambo, with significant experience over both. I do know that every single young player improves. It does not mean they'll be pro-bowlers, but it's foolish to think anyone learns literally nothing from NFL coaching and experience in the league. Even if Coleman and Odhiambo never become regular starters, I'll bet both learn a thing or two.

That's not treating anything as gospel. It's considering what could contribute to the differences in PFF's grading and pressures allowed. Only one of us is treating a single statistic as gospel at the disregard of additional information: and it ain't me. That's what I do know.

I hope you know, being logical won't get you too many friends on this forum.

I must say, this forum is truly amazing. On my old forum, a Shon Coleman thread would last about four posts before becoming a thread regarding how liberal millennials and "sunshine pumpers" (Browns fans who actually cheer for the Browns rather than hoping our players get injured and celebrating losing) are to blame for there being no white cornerbacks.

I'm here because I got banned for being a globalist who only liked Myles Garrett because he's black and I enforce PC culture. True equality is if we can ALL say the N word, I hear. The administrator also didn't like my new haircut: Which, for reasons I am too scared to consider, he was able to accurately describe.

I've never seen so many on-topic threads that aren't littered with personal insults, racist tirades and off topic conversation that rarely related to football.

That might explain the reason if I sometimes get a little defensive lol. I'm adjusting to the odd environment of being surrounded by reasonable people who actually seem to like the Browns. This forum is brilliant.

I agree BDU ... this forum is outstanding. The best NFL forum on the internet IMO.

I haven't agreed w/some of the things you have said, but I think you are a great addition to this board. You have used logic and reason in almost all of your posts and you come across as intelligent.

I'm glad you're here.