DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2017 NFL Season Looking Back: Browns 9 Titans 12 The plan all along? -Lose out and take the best QB available at #1 to complete the rebuild.

After witnessing the coaching decisions, front office decisions, yearning to acquire as many draft picks as possible, lack of fire from the coaching staff, cutting of veterans, emphasis on developing rookies, and an outright effort to not win games, the only logical explanation I can come up with is that two years ago Paul Depodesta told Jimmy that we need to tank for three years, and that the NFL draft system can be used in a way that tanking for three years overwhelmingly increases our chances for success in the ensuing years. I'm not kidding. If you think I'm out of my mind, please tell me why/how. I think we are trying to get the number one pick this year to take our quarterback and that we will sign a few veterans this offseason, win 7-8 games next year and be in the playoffs every year after. Given my assertion, if I'm right, we will not see anybody from the coaching staff or front office fired this year. We tanked last year, and we're tanking this year. It makes zero ZERO sense to win at all this year as it jeopardizes the rights to the #1 pick in the draft. Trust me. Next year we'll see an improvement.

I can't tell if that was a pessimistic or an optimistic post.

I don't think you are correct. However, the thought did cross my mind when Hue called that trick play that had no chance of working after Kizer and the offense had been playing very well.

The problem with the plan, however, is you have no idea which QBs will come out, if they will be any good (you certainly don't know that when you start this plan in 2015 that the QBs in 2018 will be good), and if you will be in a position to draft them (although the Browns are looking good for that #1).

I think Haslam is a terrible owner. I think he was sold a bill of goods by Sashi and Depo. I think Hue was sold a bill of goods by Haslam, Sashi, and Depo. I think Haslam meant well, but he should have the wherewithal to know what he doesn't know and he should have gotten help instead of letting these guys snowball him the way he did. Trust me, Sashi and Depo don't give two craps about the state of the Browns. They haven't been living it there entire lives. Sashi decided at some point he wanted to be a GM instead of a lawyer and Haslam was his mark.

I'm afraid this isn't some grand plan. It's just incompetence. Dee is our only hope. I think she knows her husband isn't very bright and realizes that they were sold a bill of goods. But she has to be careful how they approach this.

If this was the plan all along, why burn a 2nd rounder on Kizer?

Exactly, riddler.

I'm not trying to be optimistic or pessimistic, I'm just trying to make sense of what I'm seeing on the field and the decisions being made off the field. - Hiring a guy (DiPodesta sp.) who thinks differently who has had success building sports franchises through unconventional means lead to us buying Osweilers contract to acquire a draft pick, cutting Joe Haden to simultaneously make the team worse and cut salary, and lead to us trading down in the draft. It also lead to a deliberate effort to not win last year or this year. With this regime we're doing something that hasn't been done before - deliberately tank for an extended period of time ( 3 years ) in order to get out of the cycle of being sub-mediocre. We're trying to get out of the same cycle that the Lions and Bengals have been in for decades. - Tanking for the #1 pick over the last few games of a season (like we did back in 1999) is taking a step back to take 2 forward. In my opinion, what this regime is doing is taking 4 steps back to take 20 steps forward. If I'm right, you'll see the same faces in the same places on this staff next year. If I'm wrong, you'll see turnover during the offseason. - No doubt.

If his conspiracy theory is correct? To ensure we suck.

Could have just played Kessler. They all suck.

I've wondered about this also.. The only explanation that I can think of is that they saw tremendous value in getting him in the second round. If I'm right (if) they didn't set out to draft him, they set out to follow their board. When it came time to draft in the second round their metric, formula, algorithm (whatever they use) told them to take Kizer and not trade down.

I could be totally wrong, but I hope, I really hope that there is some sophisticated rationale behind the way this team is being built. There has to be. There is no way we could be this bad unless it is part of some grand design.

If this was the plan, then what a way to waste A LOT of money.

Also, they passed on 2 QB's high enough to let me know that this is not the plan.

The next FO/HC may reap the full warchest, but I seriously doubt this was THIS front office's plan.

I don't buy that for one minute, Rish. They have a lot on the line - their reputations, their jobs.

I think they care about their process and being proven right and having everyone talk about how smart they are.

I mentioned this in the game day chat, but Sashi could not stop patting himself on the back after drafting Kizer.

I think these guys care about the Browns from the context that they care about winning their way. I don't think they put the Browns first.

This is just frustration speaking ...

I would expect so. We are all feeling it to some degree...

Yeah I'm all for tanking to get the right guy, but he's giving the FO too much credit. They're not smart enough to do that or we would already had Wentz or Watson in place.

I have been trying to tell myself that we have a very young rookie QB. That Coach is doing his best with a young team. And I really like Coach Jackson so I want to believe. But I have to admit that the doubt is creeping in. His offense sucks. It isn't just who is running it. I HATE follow the bouncing QB. Ask anyone from the old Browns site board. I despise when a coach bounces QB after QB in and out every damned week. It does nothing. What would the difference have been had he kept the rookie in? He's a ROOKIE. Of COURSE, he's going to throw picks. Manning threw what? 25 his first season? And fumbled a bunch too if I recall correctly... This season isn't just about winning a game or two. It's about developing young talent. At least that is what they are supposed to be doing. I'm not seeing a lot of development, especially on the offensive side. The D is coming along. Not there yet but it is the first year in this scheme.
I have a feeling that a clean sweep is coming again. I really don't see Haslam being this patient. I'm not saying I want a clean sweep. I still haven't crossed over to that yet. I really do like Jackson. I want him to succeed. But it is getting very difficult to turn a blind eye to some of his shortcomings. He's an offensive coach and his offense sucks. He insists on being his own OC and therefore we have no one to blame for this pitiful offense but him.... He is responsible for some of the worst offense I've seen. Considering I'm a Browns fan that is saying something.... He better get a hold on this team and get their stuff together or he's going to be looking for another job. It's one thing to lose. It's quite another to look this bad doing so.

its doesnt seem like a plan is in place. we could argue that we try to lose games for better picks. we going to pick up more recardo luis and higgins like guys?

You can have any coach you want and with the talent level of our offense and especially their level of experience it's going to be a long and sad year of pain.

#1 need is a QB
#2 need is a #1 WR that is big and physical not some quick elusive guy

If those two needs are not met in this next draft/FA period then next year will be the same.

I think it's pretty obvious that the front office was/is very okay with losing for a couple years to rebuild the team (we have been playing rookies more than anyone for two seasons now, playing rookies is how you lose games on the down low). Unfortunately it doesn't seem like the coaching staff is interested in that plan (based on what they have said).

Tanking has worked well in both baseball and basketball (teams have had different levels of success). The problem is that they people doing the planning seems to survive, while the coaching staff is thrown under the bus when the "process" is complete.

Examples:

The Cubs tanked their way to the World Series. The Astros did the same. The Nationals have been very good partially because they got both Bryce Harper and Stephen Strasburg in consecutive years with the first overall pick. There are other examples in baseball, but the "process" is not complete.

Basketball is a little different because you have to hit on multiple superstars to be able to compete. The Sonics/Thunder tanked and it got them Durant, Harden, and Westbrook. The Warriors tanked to be able to keep their pick, they ended up getting Harrison Barnes who helped them win one title. The Sixers are the most famous tanking team and it seems like they are on their way up. The Pelicans tanked and it got them Anthony Davis. There are a ton of other examples in the NBA.

Next year we have alot of picks which means a load of new, inexperienced players.. again.

I realize that ideally you should improve and not pick as early but WHEN will they be satisfied with the normal 4 picks or so? Right now one would think it'll be at least 2019 to compete at this rate and that's ONLY if they draft well.

Seems like a vicious, ugly holding pattern we're in.

I was going to say that also. Why didn't they draft a QB first overall in the last draft?

The only plan I see is wanting to win but as cheaply as possible. Cutting veterans that cost too much and paying a bunch of rooks the minimal NFL salary.

I dislike the state of our team.

If I was Allen or Darnold and they thought we were going to take them, I'd stay in school and avoid playing here or having to wear a Cleveland Brown jersey.

It's to the point I'd almost rather pass on talent because it's just a friggin' shame seeing people's career die here in this crap environment when elsewhere, they likely could succeed.

we wouldn't have this problem if we tanked for Teddy.

There gonna have to graduate sometime ...and odds are we’ll have the first pick again ...

Somebody is trying to prove Kizer was a brilliant choice, "diamond in the rough", a steal, and that Huey is a legend at picking talent and making QB miracles.

Since we haven't managed that, we are left with his vague assurances and a few 'trust me' statements. Needs a talent guy not from Harvard, and an OC to develop a scoring game plan. His dumb decisions are starting to wear me out. The penalty crap is bad. Sit some folks cutting our throat. Just maddening.

Now you are getting goofy.

Kizer was a good risk for where we drafted him. He just needs a few years under Hue and I think he gets better. Not ever as good as I would want but better than now. It's too early too judge him I think other than to say right now he is NOT a starting QB. He might be in a few years though. It's a good risk to reward ratio IMHO.

I would still draft the best QB in this next draft and let the best man win. Kizer and Cody make fine backups either way.

This has been the plan for the last 5 years.

Nobody in their right mind plans on being this bad over a 2 year period because you pretty much have to fire them. I think last year was the "tank" year and this year was the growing year, but we haven't seen much growth.

I would take QB Josh Rosen and LT Orlando Brown Oklahoma !!

NC State QB - Ryan Finley. Best of the bunch IMHO.

Apparently I need to watch more of Rosen. My initial impression was not good,it was somewhat limited, though. He's been getting buzz and the rest of the QBs haven't impressed.

I've got Lamar Jackson at the top of my QB board, but I need to dig into the intangibles.

Can u please share your thoughts on him at this point?

Here are my thoughts on him. He is the right-handed version of Michael Vick. Would not touch him, but that just means the Browns will draft him with the 1st pick.

Yup that's the plan. Amass draft picks and get fleeced by the other owners with bad trades during the draft. That seems to have been the plan all along.

Yes but look at the VALUE we are losing with.. it's incredible value.

Watching some of the calls Hue has made this year, it actually might be plausible.

I don't believe that any team truly "tanks" though. Everyone wants to win. Hue misplayed the QB hand badly though... he got caught up in Kizer's natural physical gifts and tossed the kid in before he was truly ready. We likely should have just kept Osweilier for the year or signed Kaepernick.

I'm cautiously climbing aboard the Baker Mayfield train.

My initial impression on Rosen is that he is an immature kid with a penchant of making Weeden-esque bone headed plays. Has nice tools, but I have a hard time getting past those prominent warts. Have to watch more of him this year, though. He may have matured and learned that sometimes it is okay to live to play another down.

If you meant Jackson, he's a more electric Vick with better touch. Has great numbers but they would be even better if it didn't look like his receivers have worse hands than ours. They must have dropped at least 4 well placed potential TDs against Florida State alone. Physically and instincts he's got the goods. Need to get a better feel for the mental side and intangibles. I think he's a much better natural passer than he gets credit for. His build worried me at first, but his spatial awareness and knack for minimizing the force of hits have eased that concern to the point where it is basically not one.

Thank u sir ... appreciatte it ...