DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus White House economist: Middle class will benefit from business tax cuts in 3 to 5 years

ok that's fine if you don't take me seriously.

at least you two don't try to hide the fact that its about every man for himself when it comes to policies for America.

I don't know if that is the case yet, again, we need to see the brackets before knowing if there will be tax savings for everyone. I don't know how an assumption of 3-5 years can be made without knowing that information. If taxes are cut for the middle class AND it takes 3-5 for the "trickle-down" is that OK? I'm not all that on-board with trickle-down either btw.


I don't think it is as few as you think - in 2015 there were 15M people that were self-employed, about 10% of the workforce.

10% is few.

also, how much do you make? please dont tell me directly, but what bracket do you normally fall under?

Actually, I was wrong. You are going to have to pay income taxes on any money you earn from those rentals. So now you will also get to be raped by the irs as well. Welcome to the club lol

Fair enough, 10% of the workforce is more than a few to me, but I'm not going to argue semantics over the definition of a few

I just got my tax return out from last year and figured out what I paid exactly - 38.4% - so I was wrong about the 50%. Regardless of the changes, I'll pay about 3-5% less this year because of changing to an S-Corp. Now 25% as the rate would be a nice chunk of change for me.

Well here's the problem in all of this. Both Columbus and Eve aren't large corporations. The get raked over the coals when it comes to taxes. They deserve those kind of tax breaks. But here's the rub.

Currently, the effective tax rate of corporations (the actual percentage paid)is about 17.5%. Not the 35% that small businesses are paying. So while it sounds good to say that corporations pay the 35%, it's actually people like Eve and Columbus pay that but on the average, Corporations pay far less.

There should definitely be large tax cuts for small businesses. But let's honestly do the math here in regards to corporate tax rates, if the stated rate is 35% but the average corporation is paying the effective rate of 17.5%, their taxes will be virtually non existent if you lower the stated rate to 20%.

Small businesses and major corporations are apples and oranges. The biggest scam going is making their tax rates the same. Small businesses need the help. Corporations are currently setting record profits.

Thank you. You get it. The Moms and Pops struggle a lot because of the current tax situation.

i actually agree with that, but the problem is now how do you rework the tax code to make the distinction for small business to corporations without a massive hissy fit from said corporations?

You'd get a hissy fit, but if you capped the income, not revenue, at like 1M (possibly less) that would get most of the small businesses. I don't think a cap on revenue would be a good idea as expenses vary substantially based on the business type. I have virtually no expenses being in the software industry, someone who is a small manufacturer is going to have a lot more.

Either way you do it, you are correct that large corporations would throw a fit.

I do understand and I think it's a shame. This is certainly a situation where it's not a one size fits all and the tax code should certainly reflect that.

I believe if it was broken down to where small businesses got a big tax break without that same huge tax break going to giant corporations, the average worker in America wouldn't feel it's a bad idea.

When you lump them all together it just helps divide people more.

Small businesses help create a lot of jobs. Keeping their taxes low helps give the the opportunity to grow. That's a good thing.

Major corporations already have their business model streamlined and are efficient at producing the most they can with as few employees as possible. There's nothing wrong with that. But let's face it, they're not suddenly going to hire more people to do the same job out of the goodness of their heart. Their tax breaks will go towards dividends to their stockholders.

You don't and they won't. Let's face it the lobbyists for big business owns our politicians. And let's not fool ourselves that it's one party or the other. It's systemic. But that's the way government wants things. If you lump small businesses in with big corporations in the tax code, small businesses end up siding with those corporations when it comes to taxes. I mean you can see the rate of taxes they're paying so do they really have a choice?

Good, y'all hate trickle down economics.. I get it..

So what should it be? What should the tax brackets be (assuming you prefer a progressive tax)? What should the top rate be? What should the working poor pay? How much should somebody who pays almost no taxes be able to get back? How much should a corporation pay? How much should a corporation pay on foreign income? What deductions should a corporation be allowed to take? What deductions should an individual be allowed to take? What tax credits should there be?

then there is the flip side.. what should we do with the money? How much of GDP should we spend on social programs or "welfare"? Which programs work and which ones don't? How much should we spend on education, re-education, job training? How should we pay down the debt? How much would your preferred healthcare plan cost and how will it be paid?

I know it's not finished, but unless Trump changes his mind he will grabbing me by the crotch and crushing my boys.

The only feedback I've provided is that somebody will have to pay for these tax cuts and it looks like the middle class to me. I personally hope the business tax breaks pass, that will be a good thing in the long run. I would have zero problem with no tax on business earning with strings attached that guarantee american jobs and that profits will be invested into growth or distributed to taxable personal income/ profit sharing within one year. IMHO that would be a windfall for the little guy because you could invest in growth tax free.

My comment was confusing, Swish knows though. I was talking about during the election y'all wanted Bernie and his tax plan to jack up everybodys taxes to pay for his "free stuff".

You see it as free stuff, I see it as investment in our most precious assets that are currently being wasted. Affordable and or free post high school education will make us more competitive and give employers a much needed 'educated' employee pool. Healthcare bernie style would save us a fortune over what is being dished out to insurance fatcat middlemen for ZERO contribution to actual healthcare. Taxes would be collected to pay for it, but out of pocket monthly premiums would become a thing of the past! These are brain dead simple concepts.

There will always be monthly premiums. You all talk about Medicare for all, and that has monthly premiums, plus people have to buy supplements to cover medicare's holes. Sorry, nice try, but jacking up taxes plus monthly premiums is a joke. The govt should use its buying power as leverage to negotiate much lower prices for things. Instead of passing on the cost to the taxpayers. Education problems only need regulations to fix it, not even a cost to the taxpayer. There is no reason to raise taxes for that.

If this was such a bad problem, why didn't Obama or Clinton do anything about it when combined they had 16 years?

I for one, need a tax cut. 4K a year will be good for me if that is correct as what is being reported and I have seen others list on this board. I don't remember getting any tax breaks under Obama......your complaining about tax breaks for the rich, does that hurt you any way at all? Please explain if so

Not directed at you necessarily, but I hate that term "someone will have to pay for tax cuts."

Why not let the gov't. do with less? There's so much freaking waste in gov't. it's unbelievable. Federal, state, local..............they can't ever do with what they had, they always need more, more, more.

Cut the damn budget 10%. If they can't do it, I would be willing to do it for them.

You absolutely will not be getting that.

The "average cut of $4K" is carny con man speak.

If I have 10 apples, and 10 people, and I give 8 to one person, and 2 to another, the average apple per person is 1, despite 8 people not getting one.

Republican think...

If you have 10 apples and 10 people and you place 5 apples in a pile, a deer is attracted and harvested, feeding the 10 people for a 2 weeks with apple slices for dessert.

If there are 10 people, and 1 of them pays 4 apples, and 4 of them pay a total of 6 apples, and 5 of them pay no apples.............and you want to give an "apple break", who should get an apple or 2, and who should not?

A tax break is just that - a break in taxes paid.

Now, I can see giving the wealthy elite 10% a smaller tax cut than the next 40-50%. But come on, you can't cut taxes for those that don't pay taxes and in fact, get back more than they paid.

This would surmise that there is some across the board fairness-in-share.

If the bill follows the loose parameters spoken about, it's little more than a massive gift to billionaires and corporations, both of which tend to pay a far lesser burden than the lower or middle classes due to tax laws and loopholes.

Not to mention, your argument works against the tax cuts, as goliaths like say, Verizon, who pay an effective 0% tax rate, would be getting *returns* in some cases.

The White House/Congress (let's face it, Congress, the White House is drooling after falling asleep to Lou Dobbs) want to drastically increase spending while lowering revenue. You and I and many others had these same arguments roughly 10-15 years ago.

Turned out it was a disastrous idea back then, and I'm gonna go out on a limb and say history will repeat itself.

You can't say "...and Mexico will pay for it" and magically have the bills paid.

AARP just sent out this email yesterday

"we're running out of time to stop a costly tax hike on millions of the oldest and sickest Americans. Congressional leaders might include a Health Tax in an upcoming tax reform bill, repealing the Medical Expense Deduction seniors can claim on their taxes – potentially costing them thousands of dollars each year.

This deduction provides critical relief for older taxpayers with high health care costs – if it gets repealed, those already burdened by high health costs can expect a large tax increase.


I find it funny that the The Tax Reform Act of 1986 lead by Republican President Ronald Reagan raised the threshold to 7.5 percent from 5 percent thus costing sick Americans more in taxes. I believe this was the same year Reagan cut the top tax rate from 50 percent to 28 percent. Saving the rich billions while screwing the sick folks in our country.

Now it looks like Trump wants to do the same thing.

If their plan passes, then I’m sorry for your increased burden, bro.

That being said, you had to know this was coming the moment you voted for whoever you voted for. The GOP made no secret that they were gonna cut whatever it is they could for trickle down.

As a friend, I truly am sorry for you IF this passes because you and our other older generations don’t deserve to be treated like that.

As a liberal....well, told you so. But you and others weren’t willing to listen.

I knew there was a chance when I voted. BUT I voted for him with the hope he puts an end to legal abortions. If he does then my sacrifices will be worth it. Don't let anybody ever say I don't put my money where my mouth is

So you voted on a single issue? You voted to screw the environment. To screw the middle class. To screw Medicare. To give big business tax breaks while burdening the rest of is further.
You voted against your own interests in the off chance that maybe, just maybe he’d put an end to Roe v Wade.
Wow. How myopic to vote for a guy that’s looking to pull medical insurance from millions. Hey millions of folks without insurance. Families without access to doctors children included. How utterly deplorable that you’d vote to turn the screws on the living all for the hope of one policy change that doesn’t effect you. I got an idea. Don’t have an abortion.

what a triggered response! who the hell are you to tell someone how and who they should for?? or what issues are more important to someone? THIS IS WHY THE LEFT CANT WIN AN ELECTION. Step off your holier than thou high horse, and realize, you may not be the smartest person in the room.

I lost a lot of respect for you after than post. . . .

Don’t say you’re pro life then vote against everything that helps the living.

I don’t need your respect.
I’m fine.

don't hold your breath for a response, he wont answer.

Maybe we can’t win elections because we have a bunch of people in this country who either lack perspective, or have an every man for himself mentality.

While I wouldn’t go hard in the paint like Portland did, it doesn’t change the fact that Portland is correct.

If you’re voting for one issue and blatantly ignoring every other issue that involves the overall health and welfare of a nation, then you are indeed part of the problem.

BS, the top 1% pay the VAST majority of the tax burden.

I think an alone, hopeless, futureless, non-loved child is worse than no child.

So how many nonaborted children have you helped?

Portland, I get your frustration but GM is not one of the deplorables, he's a good man with moral convictions that was drawn into this by divisive politics and false promises. Trump duped a lot of good people and garnered the vote of many that are truly deplorable, this is how he won. However the dems put up the worst candidate they could have against him. Bernie would have crushed Trump in the general.

They have the vast amount of the money. Seems to make sense that they’d pay more in taxes.

So those 7 murdered by Whoopi Goldberg would be hopeless and future less with her millions upon millions of dollars? 7 ABORTIONS! may sista should have kept her both traps shut for once and 7 innocent babies would not have HAD to get murdered. but you know, common sense.

Feel better now bro?

Neither candidate was worth voting for they both sucked donkey.

I thought for myself personally that the She witch would have been a better choice for me as far as medicare, and taxes. I didn't think she was a better choice for the country as a whole, and I could not vote for someone who approved murdering innocent children.



What Obama did and Hillary would have done were not working. Premiums were going through the roof, while deductables and co pays just keep going up at twenty times the inflation rate does. Something needs to change, but it looks like Trump is only going to make it worse. So you see it was not myopic it was a small chance for change rather than NO chance for change.



Millions of folks were still with out insurance when Trump took over and would still have been with Hillary in charge. They simply can't afford it.



SO you see I was not turning the screws on anybody. Our health care was already screwed up and is going to continue to be screwed up until the entire system is fixed, scrapped, changed. I thought there might be a 5 percent chance Trump would do that, while i thought there was a zero percent chance that Hillary did it.

and abortion do effect me. I am sorry that your job has left you so devoid of feelings that you no longer care if innocent babies are being slaughtered by the millions while some americans are so heartless and cruel that they don't even care. I would go so far as to say I have shed as many or more tears for the murdered babies than you have for the people you have seen die in your line of work, so don't even try telling me abortions don't effect me because they sure as hell do.

Maybe she didn't want to bring a child into a world of misery filled with people like you. That's a life sentence without parole.

My life is great, my 401K is has been awesome, how about yours?

The only one complaining "ughhhhh he is ruining the world we are sooooooooooo going to die!!!!!" is your side. The only misery here is that you and your party believe that killing babies is a great thing. Its ok, if that's what you think, just say it. At least man up to your position. You don't see an issue that more black babies are aborted than born? Why are you trying to eliminate the black race?

BTW



No I voted to keep Americans working and making money to feed their families instead of letting companies send all the jobs overseas so the rich could get richer.



Everybody who voted for Donald or Hillary voted for that so we had no choice.



To some extent yes, so guilty as charged.



I sure did as they are being over taxed

Did I think Trump would raise taxes on the middle class and poor. No I did not, and if he does then I was wrong about that.