DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... At least 6 dead after truck drives onto bike path in New York City

they never run out of "another" enemy, i agree.

maybe because it correlates to the US always finding "another" enemy to go to war against.

i love this country, but far too often it seems as if we create boogeymen who don't exist.

And that could be true also, swish.

The M.E. has been fight since forever. Fighting anyone and everyone for the most part - fighting each other.

i agree with what you said.

i just often wonder what's the best scenario.

do we just bail out of the middle east, and potentially turn a blind eye to genocide, ethnic cleansing and other atrocities in the region?

or do we go all in?

we've been half-assing the problem for decades and it has never really worked out for us.

check out the history of Iraq, for example. They have been part of almost every powerful empire in the region. The US is just another empire who tried and failed in the area.

i mean bro, Turks, Ottomans, Mongol, Roman, etc.

it's like they have seen all these empires go "we're here to save you" and the response is "yea, whatever"

i agree. you just gotta wonder when will it end? whats the cycle that has to be broken?

Meh. Living in a war torn country and blaming it on other countries isnt really an excuse to be violent. No matter who got killed. You have to transend the situation. And that is what religion teaches. Even Islam.

To make an analogy

If you are raised in the ghetto, and have family killed because of gang banging....is that an excuse to go murder someone? Or should you try to get out of the ghetto?

Just asking, because I know because Swish posted about his life and how he got out of the ghetto.

the problem is that at the end of the day, i live in the richest country in the world while the people i'm talking about live in arguably the worst places.

yea i grew up hood, but i'm talking about that while taking picture with my bmw with an iphone 8 on instagram.

i do not live in a war torn country where i have to worry daily about either a drone strike or a suicide bombing.

the US version of the hood is the inner city with poor housing and access to public transportation.

the middle eastern version is a warn torn country constantly being bombed or in firefights wondering if you're gonna survive the next day.

if you are born and raised in a violent environment in a country ran by dictators, then transcending anything is a pipe dream.

Dang, what am I doing wrong? I have an Iphone4 that got handed down from my son to my wife to me.

My personal vehicle is a 2000 GMC Sierra, 1/2 ton, 2 wheel drive, 215,000 or so miles on it.

I need to figure it out I guess.

So you are rich now, when you werent then. You transended the situation and chose to make decisions to improve your life.

War torn countries are no different. All the people chosing not to become violent are fleeing the country and becoming refugees in other peaceful countries. They transended the situation.

The violent radicals who remain choose to ignore their religions teachings instead, and try to warp it as a justification for murder.

So yeah, live or die, they choose one or the other.

you could've been got a newer phone like anybody else.

and my ride came from a repo.

not everybody can escape.

and besides, they are trying to escape only for people to hate them when they get there, even though most don't do anything wrong.

hell, there's good chance a lot of them will be sent back. some already are.

That really doesnt mean anything. The point is they are trying to escape. They are not choosing to be violent. In most instances they will be successful. Look at Germany. Has never turned away a refugee for any reason ever.

and i'm actually surprised that Germany's refugee violence issue has calmed way the hell down lately.

i get what you're saying.

but from a global standpoint, cutting and running is good for the civilians, but it doesn't solve the problem with the asshats running the show in the middle east.

if everybody runs, then the douchebags will just follow them to wherever they are going, as we've already seen in europe.

I don't need a newer phone. It does what I need a phone to do: phone calls.

I get the added benefit of being able to text. For some reason I can't post pictures to facebook anymore. Oh well.

I promise, you will never see me walking around with my head buried in a phone.

And any time I post on here - get this - I'm not on a phone, not on a laptop..............I'm on a pc.

bro you better start advertising your business on IG and FB, and get your customers to write yelp reviews.

We were just having some fun with Swish and all his asterisks. Looks like he got it.

I never get those jokes...dammit...

Human nature.. that's the cycle that needs to be broken. The people have to stop believing the "leaders" when they tell us who the enemy is.... who we should be afraid of...

Back in 1985, Sting sang a song with the following lyrics:

We share the same biology, regardless of ideology.
But what might save us, me and you,
Is if the Russians love their children too

When we don't have an external enemy, leaders develop internal enemies, that's how they build their support base... it's not a coincidence that when we have a common external enemy that Americans can rally together... and in the absence of an external enemy, republicans hate democrats and democrats hate republicans... blacks/whites... citizens/immigrants... take your pick... there has to be an enemy all the time.

So the only thing that will change the tide is when we the people say that we refuse to support our leaders in hating and fighting and going to war against people from other countries, from other religions, from other points of view, from other races.... most of whom don't want to fight with you any more than you want to fight with them...

So all we have to do is change the way a few billion people around the world feel about the enemies they have been told to hate.... "enemies" who never really hated them in the first place... pretty simple.

First off, stop making excuses for disgusting terrorist j/k

Finally we have a post we can have civil and logical discussion on I believe, or hope.

You see, I am actually in the middle on this when it comes to middle eastern and middle eastern decent terrorist. I think it is extremely important to separate the two to understand them and what made them go to eventually the same end result. Murderous trash.

I can see this for the ones IN the middle east, but the lone wolf who has been out of the country since they were babies, etc. Who have grown up here or in Europe etc, I would think that it has to do with more the fairy tales of Jihad. They have seen Western life, Western civilization, and have seen the values of it.

I agree and disagree. Yes we have an entire generation of kids who grew up during "war" time. I put "war" in parenthesis because its not the same type of "war" that once was. You see, there really has been no effect of their daily lives, like there was in the past. They still have their video games, facebook, spotify, reality tv, youtube, etc. Most do not follow what is actually going on, and I bet a lot of them do not even realize half the time we are at "war". They are completely unaware and it doesn't even exist, or matter to them.


Yes and no again. The middle east has been at a war since the beginning of time. Personally, I do not think that will ever change. I don't think we should be over there, but I also don't think we can just pack up and leave. Past leaders for whatever reason got us over (I really don't want to debate those reasons or why as it has been done over and over), but we saw what happen when we tried to pull out. I don't see us ever not having a presence over there again.

This is a very good point, and I agree with how to fix it in states (although how to break the cycle we would probably disagree on). But think about this, how hard is it break poverty and violence in the states? Pretty hard I think you would agree. I would go on a limb and say that its 10 fold to do it over there, because you also have those fairy tales woven into the problem. Think about how devout Christians and such are here to their beliefs. From my experiences, Islam and muslims are even more devout and that will not change.

this is a little dependant on the severity and case though. "standing up to a bully and lashing out" are we talking about a kid that just fights back, or a kid that goes columbine hs?

Are you suggesting the US is the bully and the middle east is the victim? That's what I am getting out of it. I don't think wanting the rest of the world to enjoy freedom and not get gang raped, beaten, murdered, etc is acting like a bully. JMO

This all goes back to the point we talked about, this wouldn't be the case if their government and their religion wasn't killing, murdering, raping, cutting off heads, and attacking innocent civilians all over the world. Now I get what your saying, this scenario just CAUSED him to become radicalized, so what are you suggesting, we let the above continue, or just stand pat and do nothing to defend ourselves and those who cannot defend themselves. I believe regardless of us being there or not, JIHAD and Terrorist are going to commit evil any chance they get. They have been doing it since the beginning of time. Its time. We can sit and do nothing, or try to stop it. **I know I said I don't think you can, and I know I said we shouldn't be there. That is why I said I am torn. Because even though my mind says it wont matter, my morals say you cannot just do nothing. Let me give you an example:

If you are walking down the street, two big arse dudes are trying to rape a woman in an alley, do you do nothing? You are outmanned, you are out muscled. More than likely they are going to beat you up and still rape the woman. I just cant walk by and or call the police, I am going to intervene, and I think you would too. That's what I see with the Middle East, if that analogy makes sense.

I knew Democrats were terrorist! J/K I had too.

Very good point and I agree. But again, much tougher situation when you have those fairy tales in the mix - which is the case with anything when you think about.

ahh, but how do you separate the two when the terrorist are among the ones that are not? If you stand a terrorist next to a law abiding and good middle eastern man, you cannot tell them apart. That is the problem. And when it comes down to it, if those two are in a room with a US soldier, and either those two live or the US soldier lives, my vote is for the US soldier (especially when that soldier could have been and quite possibly was you).

Good points, Swish. Good debate. I know we get heated, and I would go on a limb by your comments to me that you hate me. Which is fine, I particularly don't care for most of your views either, doesn't mean I don't respect them or you.

i feel you on some of your points.

i would like to point out though that sometimes religion tends to be the excuse and backdrop, while actually holding less importance than believed.

for example, why is it that the wealthy muslim states don't have an active terrorism problem? ex. Bahrain, UAE, Qatar, Kuwait.

ive been to all 4 of those countries, and while yes you see when walking around in burkas, there are so many arab women walking around in normal clothing.

when i saw arab women walking around in skirts in dubai, i thought for sure i was gonna see a public caning.

nope. just the typical "yo baby come here talk to me" from dudes like anywhere else.

but then you get to the poor hellholes of iraq, aghanistan, yemen, etc. and it's like one big ass cult following.

because religion is all they have.

IMO, if iraq was a version of kuwait, ISIS would've never got as powerful as they have been. if afghanistan was like Qatar, the taliban would've never got as powerful as they have been.

if northern Africa was like a version of Bahrain, Boko Haram would've been squashed a month into their shenanigans.

because *most* people will defend whatever luxury they have. it's easy to get radicalized and cling to the fringes of religion when you dont have crap else to hold on to. it's also easy to get ticked off when you see other wealthy nations talk trash about you and your country who doesn't have anything. then jealousy starts coming out.

for example. lets say i'm in iraq, broke as all hell. you're american. i see the way you live and im envious and wish i could attain what you have.

but then you open your mouth, and i hear you talking trash about my country and the people.

you just went from somebody i wish i could be, to someone i despise, that quickly.

^^^ i tell you this because the closest example to that is right here in America, and i often have to catch myself from getting upset.

i look up to wealthy people. all the people i wish i could be like were super rich. i told you before, i actually liked donald trump, the brash billionaire always surrounded by beautiful women and on TV, traveling around the world.

but then i hear the way some wealthy people talk trash about people who look like me and the areas i live in. it went from a dream to "man screw these rich people they are all out of touch douchebags".

understanding the mentality of people is how you solve problems and *potentially* change peoples ideology.

yes, we still need military presence in the area and need to tear apart these terrorist organizations. but until we start seriously changing hearts and minds, the situation will never change for the better.

and i don't hate you at all. i don't have a problem with you, bro. we just go hard in the paint toward each other, but at the end of the day we're all good.

Devil might think i hate him but i don't. i don't have devil the man, we've had some really good convo's in PM. i distrust devil the profession.

You paint a perfect picture of American settlers and patriots hightailing it to Canada or Mexico just before the British landed in Boston.

You realize you just described a Trump voter, right? Honestly. You see the peons on the left think its the rich wealthy business man doing those things. The peons on the right think its the establishment, Hollywood, wall street elite liberals doing it to them. Kinda ironic, no?

I cant honestly answer that. I do not know their policy on Terrorism. Do they instantly hang a suspected terrorist, or cut a hand off etc. I am a firm believer that consequences are a large deterrent. If they don't put up with it, maybe that's why they stay out of there. Just a thought, like i said, IDK.

stop hitting on me, im cis or whatever it is i just learned in the other thread.

If that ever happened im down for that, but Swish is paying - his side has taken way much of my income for him not too

You know, I smirk to myself as I hear the Mayor and Police Chief say, "We have millions of people out there so keep your eyes open for suspicious things and report them. We need your help."

I smirk because this is completely outside the real world of today's Society.

If I see a neighbor who happens to be a Muslim man moving suspicious items in and out of his garage, with pipes and boxes and wires and such, I may think that he could be an extremist, building a bomb.

So, I do my duty and report it. The Police, Swat, FBI, and the Media swarm to see whats up.

Turns out the guy was moving those materials out of the garage to an assembly point so the Cops found nothing.

The Press digs to find out who reported it and it was me, white, male, big Trump supporter who turned it in.

Next thing we read in the papers is about the Bigot Trump supporter, Islamophobe, who is profiling those hated Muslims.

No thanks.

The guy who rented the truck to the terrorist at Home Depot may have been suspicious but knew it would cost him his job to ask too many questions.

The neighbors of that terrorist couple in California said after the attack that they saw suspicious activity at the terrorists house for weeks before they stuck but didn't want to be called Racists, Bigots or Islamophobes so they feared saying anything.

Yes, folks, for this guy it is "See Something, Say Nothing."
Grab up the family and get the heck out of there.

I can't recall ever reading an article that detailed local police receiving a tip that turned out to be nothing, let alone it being a regular or common trope.

You would be called an Islamophobe because this line " If I see a neighbor who happens to be a Muslim man moving suspicious items in and out of his garage, with pipes and boxes and wires and such, I may think that he could be an extremist, building a bomb." is practically the definition of Islamophobia.

The reality is that the majority of terrorist attacks in this country have been carried out by white males, so why not be suspicious of white males?

Yes, you have made my point exactly!

Your point appears to be that if you called the cops on your neighbor for cleaning out his garage, you would be publicly shamed by the national media, which isn't so much of a point as it is weird rambling that has no basis in reality.

See something, say nothing.

See something, clean and load your weapon(s).

This is the definition of Islamophobia if you wouldn't feel the same way if he was of a different race or religion..

It's far more likely whoever this person is, they are doing some home improvements whether they are Muslim or not.

If you see the Muslim neighbor to your left doing something and get suspicious but see the white American neighbor to your right doing a similar thing and don't get suspicious... well that's your answer.

Exactly my point, again.

See something, Say nothing.

Grab your own family and get outta there.

Everyone else can be PC while getting blown to Hell.

Naaaahhht really...people saw the San Bernardino couple with lots of stuff going in and out of their house and said nothing. 14 dead later we hear them say, we didn't want to be racist.

It's also far more likely that a person of middle eastern descent is doing something nefarious with those materials than your average white guy also. Certainly the sample size is small and most middle easterners are peaceful people but...

NEWS FLASH!

Most acts of terrorism are perpetrated by middle eastern men. Except for that San Bernardino thing, there was a girl involved in that one...and when your water bottle and shampoo got banned because extremists were doing practice runs to see if they could smuggle explosive liquids onto jets. There were women involved in that.

It's pretty obvious that white men are the biggest domestic terrorism threat in the United States. Even if you ignored the statistics about domestic terrorism, it's still obviously them. Sickos on the right and alt-right are more determined now than ever to kill. Quite frankly, I wish more people in their community would speak out. My Mom is afraid to go to Church because of these domestic terrorists.

All white men are evil.

That's kind of how this white male, married, father, Christian feels.

I think that's the wedgie. Vers has the same problem too.

Your insults are childish. Your generalizations are just as ignorant and biased as those the generalizations that the whites that you hate.

Perhaps, one day you will use your intelligence to be constructive? Perhaps not.

Once again, I will suggest that you start evaluating people as individuals rather than making all-encompassing generalizations about entire groups of people.