I'd keep on drafting young talent and just keep digging. I remember back in the 70's when the Steelers just flat stunk on ice for a few years. Everyone was losing their minds. But the ownership just kept on chipping away. I don't see anything else that has worked for the Browns. The Team's biggest problem is the fact that it keeps churning everything over and over every couple of years. Time to stay off that grinder for a while.
I agree to a degree, but if you keep bringing in 8-9-10 rookies a year, something has to give.
My thinking is to turn 10 picks in to 5 picks. Even 4.
Can't say I disagree. It's easy to find late round talent to fill out a roster.
"Let people think this is a dumpster fire," - Mike Pettine
If I'm able to buy an NFL franchise that means I have been very successful in business and life, I would want my team to reflect that. I sure wouldn't be proud of owning the worst team in the NFL.
So If I bought the Browns I would.....
1) Clean house, everyone in the front office, the scouting department and on the coaching staff would go.
2) Hire football people, not CPAs or Lawyers, with experience in building championship teams for the front office to make player personal decisions.
3) keep any elite players we have and not let them go, aka Joe Haden, who was let go, for example.
4) Hire a championship head coach that has had great success in the NFL or major College football.
So we can bring in another coach and let him deal with this joke of a front office? Can't even make a freaking trade? Can't pin point talent?
It looks grim no matter which direction is taken. It already is to the point this FO can't work with this coach. Hue has let me down, but this front office has destroyed me.
JMO of course
They made close to 20 trades in 18 monthts, you think they forgot how to do that? Also, you want AJ McCarron for a 2nd and 3rd? I sure as hell didn't.
I get the frustration with the FO. And with Hue. I have it. I don't think it's as bad as others do. I think we got saved by not making that deal.
They argued the deal after it was declined to the NFL. It's clear they didn't "back out cause we had a last minute shine of light hit our Harvard brains" ordeal. They F'ed up, even if it was a joke of a trade.
It's not the fact I hate AJ as a QB and love the fact he's not here, the fact is we tried and goof'ed it up. We shouldn't even had to have this story because we had a 2nd first rounder, if the others we missed/passed on/traded way so others can get THEIR franchise QB, and F'ed that too.
Moneyball and analytics seem like an utter wasted cause. It seems like this front office is just incompetent, simple as that IMO. Football and football talent is not their sport.
Tab, I don't see how you can keep sashi. He either botched that trade on purpose, or he did it for being inept. incompetent or insubordinate, neither is a good look.
Taking away his authority is like firing him...but he happens to be a genius regarding the business end of it. He can still be good for the organization and not fire him cause he does his thing very well! A good voice to have in the meetings also helpful to a guy like Payton as he would know the football end but to tie it all into the business end he would need Sashi.
I'm not a big fan on firing...I'm a fan on IMPROVING! Vers asked how would I turn this mess around. Its a simple move but I think it should and can be done! jmho you don't have to agree with it
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
@AdamSchefter Browns disputed proposed AJ McCarron trade to NFL, arguing it should be allowed, per source. NFL declined - no trade, officially, per source
@AdamSchefter Browns disputed proposed AJ McCarron trade to NFL, arguing it should be allowed, per source. NFL declined - no trade, officially, per source
Right. I suggested it wasn't the FO that called after it was declined, but Haslem.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
A fire happy owner that wants to shed his fire happy image yet keeps hiring incompetents.
A FO with all the cap space in the world that let's one decent qb prospect after another slip through their grasp and has unproven and questionable draft day skills. After all the trade/signing bumbling and negative press, they have no respect whatsoever with their peers, the league, the media or their fans. They are a joke in everybody's eyes.
A coach that is a botched FG away from being Ofer 24, who insists on taking on 2 roles at the expense of not being able to do either adequately. Calling plays late while trying to manage a game, wasting timeouts, repeated poor playcalling/coaching decisions, mismanaging the time clock and doesn't know who to put in at qb on the next series.
A team that is devoid of offensive talent.
I'll take a pass on trying to turn this around.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul. - John Muir
If I were the owner I would just go out and find a good football man to take care of the personnel moves. I would keep who we have for other purposes because they are good at what their field is. They can still be an asset to the organization but not as personnel people. After MR. Haslam hires the new man he should sit down with everyone, set the chain of command and parameters for each individual. Most important keep the lines of communication open so everyone is on the same page.
Let him and the HC hire a coaching staff. (There are a few I'd want to retain, Williams, Tabor come to mind. Probably the LB coach as well.)
Manning and the New HC interview and hire scouts and personnel staff (retain those you believe in)
Evaluate players. Most of the younger, more recently drafted guys I think are solid. We need to find some Vets with the ability to play.
We got a lot of picks coming up in the next draft, either use them to get a QB or to trade for a proven commodity, Maybe Ely manning (just kidding, kinda)
Get REAL receivers.
Our TE"s are solid
Get a Running back, dump Crow.
I think Our D has the talent (except at DB), our O is a MESS. That's the priority.
I think the key is Manning or someone equally credible and personable.
We're missing the boat on one other asset that's available.... Find a place for Kosar. I'm not sure what happened to his brain, but it's improved. I've been watching him on the Sunday morning programs on Channel 5 up here and frankly, he's articulate and damn, that guy can still call what's coming. He's a resource, not sure how to use him, but worth a look see I think.
Manning brings Cred.... That's the ONE thing we need at the Top.
It almost feels like we are snake bit, but sooner than later, we need to get this right.
The other alternative is to stay the course. That's not a pleasing choice for me.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
I don’t get it ... i don’t understand why u would keep Sashi for the business side when there’s many many more that can do it and keeping him in any capacity IMO is a slap in the face to Hue ...
I wouldn’t want to put Hue through that ...
Just seeing him in the hallway or at lunch would have to make Hue’s skin crawl ... i don’t get it ...
From what I have read Hue wanted A.J., but others in the front office did not want to give up the picks for him. Personally I don't like the trade for a few reasons. One you give a rival good picks to compete against you, and the QB you are getting is not proven. Trade or Draft any QB you like unless you give him weapons and a vet to learn from you will continue to fail.
Remember the guy that was supposed to send the trade in worked for the league office a few years ago. He know the rules and they had worked on the trade all day. The front office didn't want this deal. Read between the lines they are about to get rid of Hue Jackson, and bring in yet another coach.
The money ball system isn't working here. You signed Kenny Britt because his production matched Pryor's that year. Pryor used his body, he wanted it more and the Browns should have kept him. I really think with all this draft stock we have it is time to get a proven team builder in there. Call Bill Cowher, Dungy, Gruden not to coach but to show you how to draft and develop players and build a team. The trade we need to make with the Bengals is for Marvin Lewis!
I have no idea why people are so positive about bringing Peyton Manning in here to run things. I'm not saying he can't succeed but there's zero evidence that he would. He's never been an NFL scout. Never been a HC and other than being a great QB, has no real qualifications for the job as GM/minority owner.
Now would he be valuable at finding a QB? Maybe. He certainly knows what it takes to be a successful NFL QB. But other than that, he really knows more about the X's and O's on game day than he does about talent evaluation.
What it would accomplish is bringing instant credibility and positive press for the Browns. Until he actually starts doing the job. He would get a longer leash from the fans and the press than anyone else we could bring in. Yet in the end, he has less experience at what he would be hired to do here than almost anyone we could bring in too. Other than someone like Sashi of course.
I know he looks like a shiny new toy you would love to add to your Christmas list as a child. I'm just wondering what the actual results would be once the batteries die. People consistently complain that we hire people who lack the proper experience then promote hiring a person who has none.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
So we can bring in another coach and let him deal with this joke of a front office? Can't even make a freaking trade? Can't pin point talent?
It looks grim no matter which direction is taken. It already is to the point this FO can't work with this coach. Hue has let me down, but this front office has destroyed me.
JMO of course
They made close to 20 trades in 18 monthts, you think they forgot how to do that? Also, you want AJ McCarron for a 2nd and 3rd? I sure as hell didn't.
I get the frustration with the FO. And with Hue. I have it. I don't think it's as bad as others do. I think we got saved by not making that deal.
They argued the deal after it was declined to the NFL. It's clear they didn't "back out cause we had a last minute shine of light hit our Harvard brains" ordeal. They F'ed up, even if it was a joke of a trade.
It's not the fact I hate AJ as a QB and love the fact he's not here, the fact is we tried and goof'ed it up. We shouldn't even had to have this story because we had a 2nd first rounder, if the others we missed/passed on/traded way so others can get THEIR franchise QB, and F'ed that too.
Moneyball and analytics seem like an utter wasted cause. It seems like this front office is just incompetent, simple as that IMO. Football and football talent is not their sport.
did they argue the deal, or did jimmy argue the deal. what about analytics tells you they would do that for AJ?
I read something about Caserio and Josh McDanial being a potential package, GM and HC.
These two have a history that dates back to college..Caserio was a QB at John Carroll and McDaniels played WR at John Carroll, 95-98. Caserio actually beat McDaniels out for the starting QB job so Josh moved to wr.
After college football, they went seperate ways, gaining experience as assistant college coaches and both started their careers with the Patriots in 2001.
Both are from Ohio...
Caserio, is prime to move up to the GM position and would be a guy who should be on Haslam's short list.
Let Sashi move back to his previous job, keep Depo but turn the football side over to Nick.
Who is the HC?,.. that depends on Hue and Jimmy H.
So we can bring in another coach and let him deal with this joke of a front office? Can't even make a freaking trade? Can't pin point talent?
It looks grim no matter which direction is taken. It already is to the point this FO can't work with this coach. Hue has let me down, but this front office has destroyed me.
JMO of course
They made close to 20 trades in 18 monthts, you think they forgot how to do that? Also, you want AJ McCarron for a 2nd and 3rd? I sure as hell didn't.
I get the frustration with the FO. And with Hue. I have it. I don't think it's as bad as others do. I think we got saved by not making that deal.
They argued the deal after it was declined to the NFL. It's clear they didn't "back out cause we had a last minute shine of light hit our Harvard brains" ordeal. They F'ed up, even if it was a joke of a trade.
It's not the fact I hate AJ as a QB and love the fact he's not here, the fact is we tried and goof'ed it up. We shouldn't even had to have this story because we had a 2nd first rounder, if the others we missed/passed on/traded way so others can get THEIR franchise QB, and F'ed that too.
Moneyball and analytics seem like an utter wasted cause. It seems like this front office is just incompetent, simple as that IMO. Football and football talent is not their sport.
did they argue the deal, or did jimmy argue the deal. what about analytics tells you they would do that for AJ?
Nothing from an analytics side. Which is why many people think Hue wanted him, the FO backed off, Jimmy came into the mix and pushed the deal (another issue, IMO) and things got messed up at the end.
That's my interpretation (at least for now) of what happened via all the reports that are out there.
We should all be elated this was the result of the McCarron discussions. That he isn't on the team and we didn't give up those picks. The JG deal is something entirely different and warrants far more questioning and concern.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
[quoteNothing from an analytics side. Which is why many people think Hue wanted him, the FO backed off, Jimmy came into the mix and pushed the deal (another issue, IMO) and things got messed up at the end.][/quote]I think the person who spent billions has a say in how HIS Money is spent. JMO
I also think that as an employee to Jimmy, if Jimmy says you make a trade, if you agree or not, you make the trade. If you don't, goodbye.
Is Haslam willing to part with say.. .20 percent of the team and give Poppa John a pizza booth?
I did think though about some sort of Manning/Pops John conglomerate making a killer offer for a team. Maybe not us but it might not shock me.
Ahh, I don't think now is the time for any Papa John's involvement with the NFL.. He blames declining sales on the NFL but in reality, have you ever tasted what they call pizza... Man it's like cardboard... Yuk
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
I don't believe we had an opportunity to get JG and I don't believe we had a deal in place for McCarron - that got screwed up. I cannot imagine that the Browns would offer a 2nd and 3rd for that guy. I'm not buying it.
I hope Haslam remains calm and doesn't fire anyone...Hue needs to stop his backdoor politics and tell his daughter to shut up. I applaud Sashi for not playing media BS games ala Hue.
It appears the whole thing is a mess...we should either fire everyone or KEEP everyone and get it straightened out. I'd prefer we keep moving with the people we have and find a way forward.
Is Haslam willing to part with say.. .20 percent of the team and give Poppa John a pizza booth?
I did think though about some sort of Manning/Pops John conglomerate making a killer offer for a team. Maybe not us but it might not shock me.
Ahh, I don't think now is the time for any Papa John's involvement with the NFL.. He blames declining sales on the NFL but in reality, have you ever tasted what they call pizza... Man it's like cardboard... Yuk
Papa Johns is the first shoe to drop. Declining TV ratings is a real thing.
If the above were true, I would think the Browns would say they tried but a deal with the Pats never materialized.
But, since we are not hearing that...it looks as though our front office and owner were blindsided when the Pats made the JG trade with SF.
I believe most Browns fans are like me..they just want to know that the franchise is busting their butt to fix this mess..working every day, attempting to take advantage of every opportunity.
...but that just doesn't seem to be the case here.
That is exactly what I would do. In fact I would offer Peyton a minority ownership deal.
Give him full power.
But I think your point on "suggesting" that they retain the coaching staff is well made.
If they kept Hue and the staff the move from the players perspective would appear to be seamless.
The Browns record is in direct correlation to the decisions made on personnel. That encompasses signing their own players, free agency, and of course the draft.
This is where the failure has been and Sashi and his player personnel people need to go.
This coming off season we have two first rounders and three second round picks. How in the world can Haslam justify letting those crucial decisions go to Sashi Brown and his personnel group?
Alright, I know I'm going to get crap for this but I thought this was VERY interesting. To preface this, this video is for the world of DFS (Daily Fantasy Sports). Some may be familiar with these videos, some not so much. No need to watch the whole thing (unless you want insight on this week matchups)....but skip to the 49:30 mark. There is a rant from someone by the name of Evan Silva. Hopefully some of you have heard from him. He is a senior writer for Rotoworld. Admittedly, he is very stats focused, especially when it comes to videos like this.
Apparently, they start talking about the Browns and the trade deadline and it dovetails into this rant by Evan, who is engrained in the league and has sources just like any other football writer. I don't agree with all of what he says but there is a few logical stuff where I do, particularly as it comes to information writers are getting from the league. For those I've DM'd with over the last couple of days, it regurgitates my thoughts on here and I agree with him on this front....people around the league want/need to see this FO fail in order to keep their jobs and maintain the good ole' boy system that is engrained in football.
Take a listen. Agree or disagre. I like providing as much info as I can. Again, this is just one person's opinion and should be taken as such.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
people around the league want/need to see this FO fail in order to keep their jobs and maintain the good ole' boy system that is engrained in football.
Before I listen this I want to say...it has nothing to do with what others want...it has everything to do with a 1 win/23 loss record..and very little help on the horizon, especially from our front office.
Don't know if I'm even gonna listen to a biased rant because I know what I've witnessed myself and I trust my own opinion.
people around the league want/need to see this FO fail in order to keep their jobs and maintain the good ole' boy system that is engrained in football.
Before I listen this I want to say...it has nothing to do with what others want...it has everything to do with a 1 win/23 loss record..and very little help on the horizon, especially from our front office.
Don't know if I'm even gonna listen to a biased rant because I know what I've witnessed myself and I trust my own opinion.
How would it be biased? He is not a Browns' fan. He isn't me (I promise). I guess it could be biased because he is stats-focused, but it is what it is.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
I have no idea why people are so positive about bringing Peyton Manning in here to run things. I'm not saying he can't succeed but there's zero evidence that he would. He's never been an NFL scout. Never been a HC and other than being a great QB, has no real qualifications for the job as GM/minority owner.
Now would he be valuable at finding a QB? Maybe. He certainly knows what it takes to be a successful NFL QB. But other than that, he really knows more about the X's and O's on game day than he does about talent evaluation.
What it would accomplish is bringing instant credibility and positive press for the Browns. Until he actually starts doing the job. He would get a longer leash from the fans and the press than anyone else we could bring in. Yet in the end, he has less experience at what he would be hired to do here than almost anyone we could bring in too. Other than someone like Sashi of course.
I know he looks like a shiny new toy you would love to add to your Christmas list as a child. I'm just wondering what the actual results would be once the batteries die. People consistently complain that we hire people who lack the proper experience then promote hiring a person who has none.
I couldn't agree more. We had another post earlier that pointed out one of our BIG problems is people are leaning on the job here. There is no evidence whatsoever that Peyton knows how to GM or run a football team. There IS evidence that he's a good quarterback and that's about it. Those two are NOT the same thing. I'm not interested in Peyton learning the GM job at Cleveland.
I'm very very interested in hiring Cincy's Director Player Personnel Duke Tobin as GM.. then see what he does with the FO
Step 1: acquire a young QB with a rocket arm Step 2: Get Josh Gordon back on the field Step 3: Find a way to still pick in the Top 2 of the next Draft Step 4: acquire veterans in Free Agency targeted to fill the largest needs that we either won't be able to solve in the draft, or to supplement what we will do in the Draft Step 5: use a boatload of high picks to heal our biggest weaknesses
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
