A certain song comes to mind when I think of my relationship as a Browns fan ...
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
OK, Let me preface this with I know I'm about to [censored] everyone off but just think first!!!
Haslam does not have to fire anyone and still make this work!! OK, now that everyone has turned red, let me explain: Haslam just has to let Sashi deal with the business end of things. Sashi can do cap stuff, contract/legal stuff but NO personnel moves. Let the business/lawyer guy stay in his lane.
Depodesta can still do the analytics but UNDER a football GM with a scouting department or a few scouts. PERIOD.. The GM/Scout and coach( Hue) will confer on the football team/picks, needs/wants.
Hue, can get a O-corrdinator!!.. He cannot do everything on the offensive side and not oversee everything. He is a head coach now.. yes, he can override the O-corrdinator on a play but be a head coach.
See that allow the people to do what they are trained to do and not TEAR DOWN/FIRE everyone again!! The Browns cannot keep doing that. This constant firing/hiring. If that worked so well, we would be winners right now.
BTW -> Peyton Manning can come in a work with coach on QBs and with GM on players but he CANNOT come in and be the GM!!! Can anyone prove he knows anything more than QBs???? NO!!.
I'm very very interested in hiring Cincy's Director Player Personnel Duke Tobin as GM.. then see what he does with the FO
Hue might like him, but his resume is a bit weak imo.
At least we know we'll have a shot at AJ again!
So you love the way it burns too eh ...
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
OK, Let me preface this with I know I'm about to [censored] everyone off but just think first!!!
Haslam does not have to fire anyone and still make this work!! OK, now that everyone has turned red, let me explain: Haslam just has to let Sashi deal with the business end of things. Sashi can do cap stuff, contract/legal stuff but NO personnel moves. Let the business/lawyer guy stay in his lane.
Depodesta can still do the analytics but UNDER a football GM with a scouting department or a few scouts. PERIOD.. The GM/Scout and coach( Hue) will confer on the football team/picks, needs/wants.
Hue, can get a O-corrdinator!!.. He cannot do everything on the offensive side and not oversee everything. He is a head coach now.. yes, he can override the O-corrdinator on a play but be a head coach.
See that allow the people to do what they are trained to do and not TEAR DOWN/FIRE everyone again!! The Browns cannot keep doing that. This constant firing/hiring. If that worked so well, we would be winners right now.
BTW -> Peyton Manning can come in a work with coach on QBs and with GM on players but he CANNOT come in and be the GM!!! Can anyone prove he knows anything more than QBs???? NO!!.
OK.. Time to get mad!!
I love this post. I agree. Sashi needs to be with concrete stuff like numbers and math, finances, etc... bring in a football GM and let Paul work with him and him work with the coach/staff.
Give/force upon Hue get an OC.
Totally okay with all above happening and retaining people. Helps Jimmy's image because he's not "cleaning house" again really, too.
Pretty sure quite a few of us agree with you. I'm thinking that, since the Haslams haven't already gone scorched Earth again, this is a quite realistic scenario. Not sure how Hue and the front office would react, but the Haslams just might attempt it. Or demand it.
This Evan Silva makes some great points, but he loses me at 2 spots.
1. He loves Cody Kessler, and said he didn't get a fair shake.
2. He says that league FO people are wanting the Browns to fail and are "scared" of the Browns.
Nobody is scared of the Browns. Nobody.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
Depodesta can still do the analytics but UNDER a football GM with a scouting department or a few scouts. PERIOD.. The GM/Scout and coach( Hue) will confer on the football team/picks, needs/wants.
you lost me with this. analytics only works if you go by analytics 100% of the time. so hiring a football mind - there is absolutely no reason to keep moneyball. It just would not work, and cause major discourse, which we already have.
2. He says that league FO people are wanting the Browns to fail and are "scared" of the Browns.
Nobody is scared of the Browns. Nobody.
Actually, I would say they are and that it makes complete sense, if you just look a hair deeper than the cursory glance at on-the-field performance.
Nobody fears us on the field, for sure (yet?). What the fear is, is that many classic "football people" can be replaced with strategic planning and numbers. If the way we are doing things succeeds; that is, if the most hapless and dysfunctional franchise in the NFL, ever, ascends to contender status, then the entire order of things is potentially upended. Power structures are inverted, jobs changes, salaries slashed, etc....
The Geeks shall inherit the Earth.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
This Evan Silva makes some great points, but he loses me at 2 spots.
1. He loves Cody Kessler, and said he didn't get a fair shake.
2. He says that league FO people are wanting the Browns to fail and are "scared" of the Browns.
Nobody is scared of the Browns. Nobody.
I think he means that if this overly aggressive approach to analytics works out in the end, other owners will see the efficiency of it and want to bring in new people, thus them not having jobs anymore. Again, that's IF this plan would work out in the end. It's considered scary if stats and models (moreso than what is being implemented now with other teams) becomes a trend moving forward.
The livlihood of "football guys" is on the line.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
1) While I am quite certain that he can coach, there is no certainty that he could GM. They are different jobs descriptions for a reason.
2) He is already under contract with Pappa Johns, Nationwide, Nike, Buick, Direct TV, and Gatorade. He also owns 32 Papa Johns franchises. His attention will be divided and he won't be able to put in the time needed.
3) He's already earned $400 mil dollars and doesn't need the job. If things get tough, and with the Browns they will get tough, he can walk away at any time.
4) He wants a piece of the team and Haslam isn't going to give that up.
I don't want to destroy anyone's pipe dreams, but it ain't gonna happen.
Willy, Analytics is a tool for measurement. Nothing wrong with using to evaluate a player. BUT there has to be someone people that look at the tape, go to the games..etc to see if the analytics tell the whole story.
Belicheck uses analytics. But he also looks at film to make sure it tells him the whole story. Numbers can tell a story but the film might tell something else. Hell, not only can u use it for players but even the opposing teams habits, play calls..etc. I think that is where Belicheck does his most damage on opposing teams.
It's called processing things and making a more informed decision rather than acting like a child and stubbornly sticking to an opinion that is flawed.
The Haslams just have to demand it!! Nothing personal, just business. They cannot keep firing folks every two/three years and expect the best to want to come to Cleveland. That AINT gonna happen!! No one goes to a company with high turnover and a crap management system where the owner hides when things get tough!
This Evan Silva makes some great points, but he loses me at 2 spots.
1. He loves Cody Kessler, and said he didn't get a fair shake. 2. He says that league FO people are wanting the Browns to fail and are "scared" of the Browns.
Nobody is scared of the Browns. Nobody.
I thought it to mean they are afraid of analytic s working not the Browns on the field. They don't like change.
Willy, Analytics is a tool for measurement. Nothing wrong with using to evaluate a player. BUT there has to be someone people that look at the tape, go to the games..etc to see if the analytics tell the whole story.
Belicheck uses analytics. But he also looks at film to make sure it tells him the whole story. Numbers can tell a story but the film might tell something else. Hell, not only can u use it for players but even the opposing teams habits, play calls..etc. I think that is where Belicheck does his most damage on opposing teams.
Analytics apparently lost us a number of decent QBs, drafted us how many crappy WRs, determined that we didn't need to keep a number of key players. Maybe they were analyzing the best way to press "send" on the email the other night. It has it's place and not everything is a numbers game. Gut and intuition play roles in player evaluation.
It's called processing things and making a more informed decision rather than acting like a child and stubbornly sticking to an opinion that is flawed.
So not getting McCarron and not getting JG has you wanting everything to be blown up? After ridiculing everyone that was considering changes.
Wow....I guess you have a lot of apologizing to do. Better get to it.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
Willy, Analytics is a tool for measurement. Nothing wrong with using to evaluate a player. BUT there has to be someone people that look at the tape, go to the games..etc to see if the analytics tell the whole story.
Belicheck uses analytics. But he also looks at film to make sure it tells him the whole story. Numbers can tell a story but the film might tell something else. Hell, not only can u use it for players but even the opposing teams habits, play calls..etc. I think that is where Belicheck does his most damage on opposing teams.
Analytics apparently lost us a number of decent QBs, drafted us how many crappy WRs, determined that we didn't need to keep a number of key players. Maybe they were analyzing the best way to press "send" on the email the other night. It has it's place and not everything is a numbers game. Gut and intuition play roles in player evaluation.
Analytics didn't do any of that. When someone is shot you don't blame the gun instead of the shooter.
I think our problems boil down to 2 things, lack of experience (from top to bottom), and lack of a franchise QB. Based on that, I've got mixed feelings on firing the FO. They've certainly made fireable offenses of late. However, with as much snickering as people give the analytics strategy, it has provided some good young players, which is something the last 2 FO's didn't do, IMO.
2016 gave us maybe 5-6 quality contributors...guys that could be "middle-class" starters/depth once they've fully seasoned. No homeruns, but still pretty good. 2017 gave us an elite player, 3-4 more guys that have flashed potential as starters/quality depth, and a bunch of ?s. And although Britt was a terrible move, other FA moves were not (Tretter, Zeitler, McCourty, Taylor).
However, in both years, they severely misjudged QBs, which could have had us on the way to turning the ship more quickly. In 2018, we have a chance to again add solid pieces, as well as start to reap the benefits of having more experienced starters. If we fire the FO, are we sure we're going to get better talent evaluation (Heckert, Banner were football guys, after all)? I think, unfortunate and painful as it is, I'd probably ride this storm out a bit longer.
Regarding coaching, Jackson & Williams are respected around the league. They know what they're doing, even if they have some notable flaws. Again, continuity seems the least bad option right now.
So in the end, I probably would keep everyone 1 more year. Maybe add a voice to the player eval room with a mandate that everyone come to a consensus on a roll of the dice for the franchise QB (Cousins or 1st pick).
Willy, Analytics is a tool for measurement. Nothing wrong with using to evaluate a player. BUT there has to be someone people that look at the tape, go to the games..etc to see if the analytics tell the whole story.
Belicheck uses analytics. But he also looks at film to make sure it tells him the whole story. Numbers can tell a story but the film might tell something else. Hell, not only can u use it for players but even the opposing teams habits, play calls..etc. I think that is where Belicheck does his most damage on opposing teams.
Analytics apparently lost us a number of decent QBs, drafted us how many crappy WRs, determined that we didn't need to keep a number of key players. Maybe they were analyzing the best way to press "send" on the email the other night. It has it's place and not everything is a numbers game. Gut and intuition play roles in player evaluation.
Analytics didn't do any of that. When someone is shot you don't blame the gun instead of the shooter.
Of course someone is behind the decision. What was the process to get to the decision? Analytics? They surely analyzed all of those players before the choice to draft. If purely analytics determined the choice then the process is flawed. If they ignored their info then analytics is just a catch phrase their using to sound smart. My thoughts are that both are used, then discussed and then the decision made. If the info was good and discussion was had and they STILL screwed up then they're not worth their weight in Doo Doo.
Bill Polian who drafted Peyton disagrees. He stated that Peyton could GM right now and would be terrific.
He has spoken to many in the league in preparation for the role.
Coaching would not be a suitable role but GM/President would be. It should structured like Elway's role. Perhaps a minority ownership.
Haslam knows Peyton's and is well aware of his capabilities. In addition at some point he has to recognize that he is the problem. He has been unable to assemble a competent management team. The results are clear on that fact.
The question is would Peyton want to come here? In some respects it would be very attractive opportunity.
First there is no place to go but up. So there is no downhill. Second he could negotiate the deal to fit what he wants to do. Third the team is young and has a wealth of cap money and draft picks. That alone may insure a quick turn around if the correct decisions were made in player personnel; which would include free agency, contract extensions and the draft.
So I do not think it to be a pipe dream if Haslam takes the initiative.
It's called processing things and making a more informed decision rather than acting like a child and stubbornly sticking to an opinion that is flawed.
So not getting McCarron and not getting JG has you wanting everything to be blown up? After ridiculing everyone that was considering changes.
Wow....I guess you have a lot of apologizing to do. Better get to it.
So as the situation changes and evolves, if you look at that and change your mind, you owe people an apology? Yeah, right.
So it's better to be stubborn and never change your mind no matter what happens? most people call that being close minded and stubborn.
But carry on.....
And yeah, his decision has nothing to do with how inept they were in the trade by missing the deadline and the obvious division going on between the FO and the coaching staff.
Grow up.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Bill Polian who drafted Peyton disagrees. He stated that Peyton could GM right now and would be terrific.
He has spoken to many in the league in preparation for the role.
Coaching would not be a suitable role but GM/President would be. It should structured like Elway's role. Perhaps a minority ownership.
Haslam knows Peyton's and is well aware of his capabilities. In addition at some point he has to recognize that he is the problem. He has been unable to assemble a competent management team. The results are clear on that fact.
The question is would Peyton want to come here? In some respects it would be very attractive opportunity.
First there is no place to go but up. So there is no downhill. Second he could negotiate the deal to fit what he wants to do. Third the team is young and has a wealth of cap money and draft picks. That alone may insure a quick turn around if the correct decisions were made in player personnel; which would include free agency, contract extensions and the draft.
So I do not think it to be a pipe dream if Haslam takes the initiative.
I don't have a link or a proper reference for this - but someone on this board or in an article basically tore down Polian's reputation and other than landing Peyton Manning which was a total no-brainer ... he has done "virtually nothing" to be successful in the NFL. I am sure he knows more than anyone on this board ... but I think he get's a lot more kudos than he deserves.
With that said - I think Peyton is going to be successful at whatever he wants to turn his hand to in the NFL. Heck he could earn a living as a stand up comic if he wanted to - I think any time he has been on SNL he has been awesome.
Last edited by mgh888; 11/02/1703:07 PM.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
It's called processing things and making a more informed decision rather than acting like a child and stubbornly sticking to an opinion that is flawed.
So not getting McCarron and not getting JG has you wanting everything to be blown up? After ridiculing everyone that was considering changes.
Wow....I guess you have a lot of apologizing to do. Better get to it.
So as the situation changes and evolves, if you look at that and change your mind, you owe people an apology? Yeah, right.
So it's better to be stubborn and never change your mind no matter what happens? most people call that being close minded and stubborn.
But carry on.....
And yeah, his decision has nothing to do with how inept they were in the trade by missing the deadline and the obvious division going on between the FO and the coaching staff.
Grow up.
For insulting people for their opinion on the matter (constantly I might add) and then changing your tune 2-day hours later? Damn right! And yes, I will carry on. It's funny....the person your trying to defend is not talking about missing deadlines but outright subordination in this matter. Get your info straightened out first before replying.
Insubordination of Jimmy Haslem....the guy that stepped in re: McCarron for a 2nd & 3rd and previously stepped in to draft Manziel.
IF subordination was the case....how is this necessarily a bad thing now? Finally someone might have the balls to take on Jimmy when he is trying to intervene.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
I'll be real brief on this latest chapter of "As the Cluster Turns".......
1. Whomever wanted to give the Bengals a 2 and a 3 for AJ (cough Hue) needs fired for pure incompetence.
2. Whomever thought it was a good idea to show up the owner of the team and the HC (cough Sashi) and slow play a trade in a meausrement of manhood contest needs fired for being unprofessional.
In short, why are you all once again arguing over people who have shown themselves to be both incompetent and unprofessional is beyond me. They all need to go, and Haslem is clueless as ever.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
Yesterday, Memphis said that I have wanted Sashi fired all year. Today, he claims I am flip-flopping about 1,000 times.
He chastises me all the time in a similar fashion and then justifies his position by saying I am the one who is insulting people for their opinions.
Back to the thread: I just don't see how the Haslams can keep a guy for such blatant insubordination and continue w/what is clearly a toxic environment.
Back to the thread: I just don't see how the Haslams can keep a guy for such blatant insubordination and continue w/what is clearly a toxic environment.
vers...we are half way through this season and we have no idea what Sashi is working on. It might be best to keep him on for the rest of the season, for the sake of continuity.
With the trade deadline behind us, the future at QB is going to remain as is. There has been some good that came out of this...
...EVERYONE GOT A CHANCE TO SEE THE INEPTNESS HUE HAS BEEN FORCED TO DEAL WITH FROM OUR OWN FRONT OFFICE...
Bring in Peyton Manning he would bring in instant credibility , respect, and is a true football guy. IMO
Cause the browns aint had that for quite some time
We heard this when Holmgren was hired.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
....