DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum You're the owner, how would you turn this mess around?

If the plan is to move on (and whatever they are thinking now, I can't imagine we can do anything in the next 8 weeks to change that opinion).. now is absolutely the time to begin that search in earnest... If you are the Browns, knowing you will have to fight harder and overpay to get the guy you want, then you have to start now... you need that guy in place BEFORE the end of the year when the pilfering of the best coordinators and position coaches starts.

We need "the guy" in place as soon as possible to begin lining out how it's going to work, who is going to stay and who isn't, from the FO to the coaches, etc... where do we want to look for replacements? If we wait until the end of the season and begin fighting with the other teams looking for FO and staff, we will be behind and end up making a rushed, poor decision.... again.

OK mac ... theres your entire quote .... here’s my “NEW” reply ...

1 - I'd hold a formal conference to acknowledge that there is a plan in place, and we'll stick to it. Have to tune out the media, tune out the negativity. And honestly say making any knee jerk reactions won't change the narrative of Cleveland being the laughing stock of the nfl. We've been that through lots of regimes, since 99', and we gotta stick to our plans to see if things turn around as anticipated. The players we have acquired are growing and developing, but we just need a few more pieces.

2 - If there is a clear, consensus, #1 QB, you risk it allllllll on that guy. Put the chips on the table and go get him. If not, grab the best QB available to compete against Kizer, and get some stars at WR.

3- Keep Hue.

4- Bring in someone who can bridge the gap between the coach and FO. And give that guy some power.

.. " We need "the guy" in place as soon as possible.. "

... Agreed ; Problem ; Who is going to pick The Guy ?

To me the Bengal trade debacle is not the issue. The bigger issue is the coaching staff feeling and venting to the media that the FO doesn't seem to be working for the greater good. THAT is what I believe should be the driving force behind change. Nobody is on the same page in Berea?

k

It's actually called using a recent situation to come out and say what you've really been thinking the entire time.

It's not fooling anybody.

I would stay the course. We are the youngest team in the league and next year we will be even younger. It's bad now, but I don't see any big name coach coming here to save us. If we fire everyone and start over again I don't see any coach in the league taking the HC job. We'd have to hire some third rate nobody or a college coach. Give it some more time. Same goes for Kizer. I don't put all our hope on him. I for damned sure draft another QB next spring, but I sure as hell am not giving up on him either. Peyton Manning threw 25 interceptions his first season. I think he won like one or two games. He had Marshall Faulk in the backfield and Marvin Harrison at WR. Now that isn't saying Kizer will turn out as good as Manning, but rookie quarterbacks often look like crap early on. This year was always about bringing the kids along and preparing for the future. Losing sucks but it does give you high draft picks like our bright shiny new pass rusher. He's going to be something in the future! I say stay the course and see where we are this time next year.

I agree. Hue is the one who went in to panic mode and demanded McCarron at a crazy price. Thank God we screwed it up on purpose. At least someone was thinking clearly.

I get Hue's frustration. He's the coach. He owns the 1-23 record. That is not going to get him another head coaching job in the NFL. Football is all Hue knows. The other guys, if they get fired they will slide in to top paying jobs in any number of fields outside of football.

The minute Hue Jackson is fired he has a job with the Nati as their OC/assistant HC. If not there then a lot of teams would be happy to have Hue on staff. Just because he made the mistake of coming to Cleveland doesn't mean he is unhirable elsewhere.

At Hue’s age and history he won’t get another HC opportunity though and he knows that. The problem is three fold imo....

1. Haslem is meddling again

2. Sashi and co have been too passive in getting playmakers, and have the “smartest man in the room” complex way too often. I’m glad we didn’t give that up for AJ but the way Sashi went about it is completely unprofessional

3. Hue is clueless on evaluating QBs apparently and that was supposed to be his gift....a 2nd & 3rd for AJ.??? Good grief. Secondly the leaking things to the media buddies stuff has to stop. It is unprofessional as well.

Again in short, both have shown themselves to be incompetent and unprofessional, and I won’t cry when they get canned after the season. Truthfully though the main problem with this team is Haslem is a bafoon,and we are stuck with him,,,,so very little hope. Like I said “As the Cluster turns”...

So, in two posts you say I have wanted the FO fired the entire time and say I am not fooling anyone [as if you speak for everyone] and in another you accuse me of flip-flopping 1000 times. LMAO

You might fool some people w/your false narrative, but you don't fool anyone who has a clue.

Keep fighting the good fight.

So, you support insubordination?

p

And if Sashi gets fired, he will never get a job in the NFL again. The guy is a snake.

For one I show Sashi and the baseball stat guy the door
You don't need them to have a winning franchise. They simply don't know how to build a roster are they have no urgency to win
But they are the architects of how to lose and dysfunction and embarrassment
I try to lure Josh McDaniel from NE to be the HC and ask if Hue wants to
Be OC
I bring in Rex Ryan as DC
In the front office I bring in guys that know talent that have NFL
Experience in the front office from PLAYOFF TEAMS

Does anyone really believe the trade was the FO's idea? Honestly, it's starting to sound like they were "content" to stick to the plan and build through the draft. Sounds like word came down from "on high" to make the trade right before the deadline and it was kind of chaos. Trades probably should not be thrown together in 10 minutes.

Even if it went down this way, we're still a mess. Might actually make me feel worse about the whole...franchise I guess. Is Haslam meddling from his oil-stained (ivory doesn't really work for me) tower again? Maybe "the plan" isn't working and does need to adjust, but I don't see any good plan that involves trading a 2 and a 3 for a not very good QB.

sorry but I wouldn't either of the Ryan's on our team.

I would draft a QB with each of my draft picks until we find our guy. That way we can minimize the chance of a browns

I'm going with:
"The bottomless hole of ass."

If you have missed it ....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8Cb5Wk2t-8

I don't even give it a name any more. I just hear a never-ending whoopee cushion sound effect when ever I think about it.

This sounds an awful lot like when they Brought in Mike Holmgren for whatever role he had, and I guess hoped things wouldn't blow up, roster and everybody else wise, but that had mixed results, at best; and only lasted a few years total.

Insubordination is intolerable.
Even though Sashi (if true) did the right thing by doing the wrong thing and killing the deal it's unhealthy for a business. It just gives more folks the idea that they can also do what they wish with no consequences.
You do what the boss wants unless illegal, immoral or dangerous to your health. It's his organization.
He's paying the bills and he has the right to be wrong. He's also beginning to pay a steep price for his wrong.

Starts to shed some light possibly on Pilot Flying J's issues?

Leaking info to the press is also a big problem. Hue doesn't have clean hands in this situation any more than Sashi.

you say that all the time but we always hve a hc. the truth is its been more the FOs that have been the problem than the coaching.

Yeah we get scrubs like Chud and etc. People no other team would hire both sober and non-sober.

So was Jimmy Haslam until he bought the Browns.

I have no idea why you feel the need to bring my name into this. lol

I’D work tirelessly in an attempt to make the Cleveland Browns a permanent fixture of Cleveland.

I’d find out what it would take to make the Cleveland Browns a “community owned franchise” through shares of stock.

I’d meet with the “brain trust” of the city of Cleveland.

But I’d be different from every majority owner the Browns have ever had. I love Cleveland.

Do you know who Art Modell bought the Browns from in 1961?

The National Insurance Co.

A large Insurance company out of Kolkata, India.

A stinking asian Indian insurance company used to own the Cleveland Browns.



Curly Lambeau is turning over in his grave.

I am not saying they shouldn't be truthful, but leaking info hurts the team.

I don't think Hue was being set up. More than anything, I think Hue is tired of looking like a chump in the eyes of his peers.

I get it, 1-23 would make most hide their head in shame. That is only 1 win better than if we hired a Cub Scout to be our head coach. Heck, the Cub Scout might even luck out in to a win or two.

Just for the record, community owned teams are no longer allowed.

GB was grandfathered in.

And that, folks, is a cryin' shame. The owners protecting their future...

Cleveland Browns never had chance for Jimmy Garoppolo, Terry's Talkin' -- Terry Pluto

http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index.ssf/2017/11/cleveland_browns_never_had_a_c.html

Updated 11:25 AM; Posted Today 6:54 AM



By Terry Pluto, The Plain Dealer

terrypluto2003@yahoo.com

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- In columns earlier in the week, I was extremely critical of the Cleveland Browns front office and their failure to trade for quarterback Jimmy Garoppolo.

I also have spent the last few days trying to figure out what happened between the Browns and New England Patriots before Garoppolo was dealt to the San Francisco 49ers for the 2018 second-round pick.

The Browns have been trying to trade for him for months -- dating back to before the draft. He was the quarterback the front office and coaching staff both really liked. It's nice when they agree on a quarterback.

League sources tell me the Browns talked to New England last on Friday, Oct. 28. The Browns were told the Patriots had no interest in dealing Garoppolo. The Browns said to please call them if that changed.

The Browns definitely wanted to bid for Garoppolo. They were not discouraged by word that Garoppolo's agent reportedly said his client didn't want to go to Cleveland. Nor that the Patriots backup quarterback could be a free agent in the summer.

The Browns believed:

1. Garoppolo would become excited in Cleveland because he would finally receive a chance to start.

2. The Browns have oodles of salary cap room and could pay him big money to stay

3. At the worst, they'd franchise him for 2018 and work on a long-term deal after that.

New England was engaged in talks with San Francisco for Garoppolo. The 49ers gave up a second-round pick. They also cut Brian Hoyer, and the Cleveland native signed with New England to be Tom Brady's backup.

The Patriots never brought the Browns into the talks, even though the Browns had been calling constantly about Garoppolo for a long time. The Browns couldn't figure it out, because they have made two trades with New England. The Browns had multiple picks to offer and were willing to do it. They believed they could have easily offered more than the 49ers.

But the Patriots seemed set on the deal with the 49ers, and that happened on Monday. Perhaps adding Hoyer was the reason. Regardless, the Browns were stunned when they heard the news.

That led to a very gloomy Monday night in Berea, and it set up their quest for AJ McCarron.

ABOUT McCARRON

It seems the Browns and Bengals were both not quite sure if they wanted to make this trade at least until the final hour before Tuesday's 4 p.m. deadline.

The Browns talked to the Bengals that morning. Cincinnati wanted a second- and third-round pick for their backup quarterback. The Browns thought that was extremely high. McCarron has not thrown a pass in a regular season game since 2015. Like nearly every NFL team, the Browns didn't rate McCarron on the same level as Garoppolo.

The appeal was McCarron knew coach Hue Jackson's system. Also, McCarron could bring some stability by not throwing interceptions.

In 2015, McCarron played in eight games, including one in the postseason. He completed 101 of 161 passes with seven TDs and three interceptions. They liked the 63 percent completion mark with limited interceptions.

Bengals owner Mike Brown set the price at a second- and third-round pick. The Browns have three second-rounders in 2018, and were negotiating about which one.

Bottom line was the two teams started on this trade very late. They haggled over too many things that didn't mean much. Then it became a paper-trail story of "He said ... he said."

The deadline passed and no deal ... for any quarterback.

I was strongly in favor of some type of Garoppolo deal. I was underwhelmed by the idea of McCarron.

The best guess is both teams share some of the blame for failing to move quickly on a last-day deal. But because the Browns are the Browns, they are destined to be the organization that is labeled inept after the deal fell apart.

WHAT WENT RIGHT

I was looking at the Browns scores and suddenly realized something: The 0-8 team has lost four games by three points. That's right, half of the losses have been by a field goal.

Granted, that happens to bad teams. They lose close games. But if they split the four games, they are 2-6. Less gloom and doom, less pressure on everyone in Berea.

Here are a few thoughts:

1. The defense was a mess in the 31-28 loss to Indianapolis, although the three DeShone Kizer interceptions didn't help. That game was not as close as the score indicated.

2. But in the other three losses, the defense allowed a grand total of four touchdowns.

3. In those losses to Pittsburgh, the Jets and Tennessee, the defense gave up 14, 17 and 12 points, respectively. The Steelers scored 21 points, but seven came when they recovered a blocked punt in the end zone.

4. In other words, the defense turned in three game-winning performances. When a team is 0-8, everything looks bad. But the defense is better. Gregg Williams has made a difference. When Myles Garrett is healthy, the defense can be dynamic.

5. The run defense has improved from 31st last season to No. 5 this season. Emanuel Ogbah, Danny Shelton, Larry Ogunjobi, Jamie Meder, Trevon Coley and the linebackers have been very strong against the run.

6. This is not to claim the Browns have a great defense, but it has a chance to be pretty good in the near future.

WHAT WENT WRONG

One word: TURNOVERS!

When the Browns made the decision to go with rookie QB Kizer, they never dreamed he'd be throwing interceptions at a record-setting pace.

The Browns record for interceptions in a season is 27 in 1979. Brian Sipe threw 26 of those. At the midpoint, the Browns have 17 interceptions -- 11 by Kizer.

We are witnessing the worst quarterback play in the history of the franchise.

Not all of it is on the quarterbacks. The front office failed to supply receivers. Free agent Kenny Britt has been a disaster. Corey Coleman (2016 first-rounder) showed some ability but can't stay healthy. Other draft picks have floundered.

Perhaps Josh Gordon will help, assuming he stays out of trouble. He will be eligible for the final five games of the season if he continues on his current path.

After a slow start, the offensive line has come together with free agents JC Tretter and Kevin Zeitler fitting in. A year ago, the Browns allowed 66 sacks. This season, they are at 23 ... and eight were in the opener.

The run blocking could be better. The coaching staff also could be committed more to the run.

None of this is meant as an in-depth analysis of the draft picks, etc. Hue Jackson also has had some bizarre moments in terms of in-game decisions. But the biggest cloud over the season leading to zero wins has been the quarterback play. The Browns could not even find a way to have mediocre performances from the quarterback in most games, and that's very discouraging.

Reading that makes sense why we may not have heard anything out of Berea yet. If we had kept calling about JG, then it's more obvious than ever we never had a shot.

Taken into account, the McCarron trade - at the price it was - was a reaction, in my view.

I'm hoping we can smooth things over and get everyone re-aligned. Losing sucks, must be awful being at the core of it but we have positives and a boat load of picks next year. We need a QB. More than anything. Just call me Captain Obvious. This is where, for me, leaders earns their corn. Bring parties together, bang heads, offer reassurances but get everyone pulling together. I have everything crossed.

I've become more apathetic to this organization than I ever thought Possible.

j/c:



I'll be bumping this periodically on all threads so this sinks in for some people.

That's what people do when they finally find one source that agrees with what they believe. Even if it defies every other source out there.