DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus House GOP tax overhaul keeps retirement rules

It is a decent start, but a long way away from something I'd consider good. My biggest issues with specifics in it:

+student loan deduction removal
+SALT removal
+estate tax
+medical expenses deduction
+AMT removal
+Johnson Amendment removal
+1.5 trillion increase in debt

And while I like the idea of reducing the corporate tax, I'd like to see controls around it. If the company cannot prove they had an increase in middle class job creation, no discount....if they can prove they had an increase in middle class job creation, discount.

From what I read, the personal exemptions ($4050) are now gone, and a married filing jointly benefit of $300 per person is added (for 5 years).

$24000-$12700 = $11300
Married couple no kids loses $8100 in personal expemptions, and $600 if they file jointly so $11300-$8100+$600 = $3800 better off. (remove the $600 after 5 years)

Married couple with one kid loses $12150 in personal exemptions, but gains an additional $600 kid credit and $900 if they file jointly, so $11300-$12150+$600+$900 = $650 better off.

Two kids = $2500 worse.
Three kids = $5650 worse

If I got the math right, there's no incentive to have more than 1 kid - IF they choose to itemize taxes.

well the cost of healthcare has risen out of control since ACA. That is just a fact. Doesn't matter if you are supporter for or against it, the cost is absurd.

How is not having healthcare being allowed state lines stripping bargaining power? That is the complete opposite actually.

Do you know increases the cost of living? Taxes. Do you know what increases the cost of living? More taxes. When business taxes are INCREASED, do you think that the business is going to pay those taxes out of their profit? No, the cost of goods/services are going to go up. FYI, the taxes on the wealthy is still going to be the same at 39.5%. That is staying the same. Kinda defeats your argument about the rich getting a break.

And I always hear the left talking about healthcare and single payer - that we need to be "like the rest of the civilized world", well we have the highest corporate tax rate in the world, maybe its time "we are like the rest of the civilized world" and lowered it some.

Private universities with assets exceeding a hundred thousand dollars per student would pay a new 1.4% excise tax on their net investment income. This is great. These universities charge out the yahoo, then get billions in subsidies and government money, only to invest that money and make MORE money. How many of these universities have these multibillion-dollar endowments and they don’t cut tuition, they never think about cutting tuition. They force their student body into assuming all these crazy loans, student loans.

And for all you saying this is a tax increase on the middle class - that received a 4 Pinocchios rating by fact check and oblitered by the Washington Post.

WashPp





Look, you don't like trump, no problem. You don't like the GOP, no problem. You despise capitalism, no problem. we all have differences. But the fact is, this is going to put money in peoples pockets. End of story.

Don't forget the tax professional lobby...which is actually bigger than I thought it was.

I agree, there is big business making things more complicated than they need to be. Making the tax simpler will cost HR block etc millions. Which is a good thing, they have been gouging and raping tax payers for a long time.

This thing is DOA.

I personally feel this is a byproduct of the states having as much control as they do over business use and regulations. If the US states were more like governmental regions that you see in Europe, it would be trivial to make insurance work across state lines, but because each state is considered (for the most part) autonomous, the federal govt would have to write up laws to change this. It's doable but I don't think Congress has any incentive to really change it.



That sound bite is misleading because it's taken by itself. Saying we have the highest corporate tax rate in the world is like saying Texas has no state income tax. Yes, it's true, but as a former Texas resident they get their tax money just as much as Ohio does! Property Taxes were very high, MUD taxes, and dozens of individual taxes on various items that can jack the effective sales tax to 10% or more. I work for a french company and yes the Corp tax rate is 33%, but you have kickers of 3.3% and 10.7% if you make enough EURO.

Also the French individual income tax is 30% if you make over the equivalent of 32k USD a year and quickly goes up from there. These taxes are how they afford their healthcare system. As someone who travels to France several times a year, it's a really nice system they have, but you do pay for it. Also it costs about 500 EUR to get your PhD in France for many fields (not the whole college, just the Phd, but still!)



I agreed with your point above that businesses pass on taxes to their customers (even if I didn't quote it). Why would a college not pass on the excise tax to their students?

I think the single largest reason for the price gouging is that you can't do away with student loans in bankruptcy. This changed in 2005 and every single graph I see on student loan tuition rates spikes at that time. I paid less than 15k/yr for my degree from 02-04 yet workers at my office paid double that or more per year just 5-7 years later. Definitely beats inflation!



The biggest problem I have with this tax plan is it goes against a critical tent pole of the GOP: runaway deficit spending. There is no such thing as a free lunch and these deficits will come back to haunt us by both inflation and reducing market capital.

Here is the entire 429 pages if any of you have the time or patience to scroll through it.

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2017/11/read_the_text_of_the_new_repub.html

Oh and for those crowing on and on about the deductions doubling.

New deduction 24,000 total for a married couple with grown children.

Old standard deduction 12,700 PLUS 8,100 = 20.800

So you get 3,200 more of a deduction IF you have no kids. 750 more if you have one kid, and 1700 less if you have two kids. This is ONLY if you don't itemize your deductions.

If you itemize you will be losing your deductions for state taxes, local taxes, school district taxes, and for those people already unlucky enough to have health problems your medical deductions.

On top of that the poor and the lower middle class see an increase of 2 percent.

So the poor, the sick, and the lower middle class just grit your teeth and grab some lube cause your about to get raped.

That is false, it was already said so by the Washington post, see the link I posted above.

I saw the link bro it said AVERAGE. It didn't mention sick folks with health problems (see medical deductions) it didn't mention home owners who can deduct their interest, and property tax, it didn't mention those who pay state taxes, or those who pay local tax, or school district tax, or those who tithe 10 percent to either the church, or charities. I am also not sure what is happening with Mortgage insurance premiums as far as being deductible right now?

Has anyone noticed that the corp tax rate will be at least 5% lower than nearly 40% of all the tax payers in the U.S. would be paying? Conservatives getting in line for their handouts and corp welfare from the middle class once again.

You have a problem with our corporations being able to compete with the rest of the world?

Yeah when they take handouts from the middle class to do it.

their quarterly profits tells us that they are doing quite fine competing.

with any tax plan - people are going to pay more and people are going to pay less. the MAJORITY of people are going to pay less on this plan.

you cannot have a tax plan that fits every individuals needs and circumstances. its impossible.

here is a point as I have heard people complaining about the state and local tax deductions. in a lot of states, they don't have those taxes. so under the current plan, they don't get to deduct that. Under the new plan, it would do away with it in NY CA etc. What that means is, people not getting that deduction are gonna be paying more in taxes and the governments in those states are going to be collecting less revenue. That might make it incumbent on people that run these states to start cutting taxes rather than relying on federal deductibility in order to help them skate by. That's a win. Its also going to hurt the rich! they will not be able to deduct millions on property taxes, in which other states are subsidizing right now.

You see limiting deductions as a downfall, I see limiting deductions as a way that people start standing up and seeing how gouged we actually are and forcing local and state govt to start rethinking the way we are taxed. It also puts pressure on those high taxed states to start paying their share.

My point is, no matter you put through or try to put through, or any kind of tax code in place, people are going to get gorged. There are things about this I don't like. in fact there things about this I really dislike, and I think those things will be vastly different by the time it gets to trumps desk. Its a long process, this is just the beginning, but I see things I like. lets let the cards fall and see where it is at on this.

One fact is for certain, we need the current tax code to change.

I shake my head at those who think it is somehow wrong to allow people and corporations keep more of their own money instead of sending it to the government.

It is the people's money in the first place.

You don't have a problem with taxpayers subsidizing your big blue states deductions. I want those trillions stashed overseas to come here, right now, that money is not going to unless we make it worth it too.

And many of those quarterlies aren't showing the whole story as larger corporations continue to stash cash offshore thru foreign branches.

Great point, I am tired of paying local taxes for places I don't live through Federal taxes!

That's the problem 40, they think every dollar made is the governments to take.

I don’t believe the first claim to every dollar should be Washington’s

And why do you think they do that, because of the taxes YOU want to put on them! lol

BINGO!

Bring that money back to the United States through lower taxes so it can be put to work here!

Yep! The altruism of those corporations - who surely don't already control the Government - will shine right through!

You do realize a lot of places in Ohio pay state, local, and or school district taxes don't you?




I agree with his cuts for business 100 percent BTW.

Foolish.

Corps want to bring that money back here and put it to work here but won't waste it by paying higher taxes here than where it is parked currently.

Yeah yeah sure... that money is gone and more is going everyday. It's never coming back. Sorry but the middle class is getting a hefty tax hike and corporations and wealthy American's are getting huge tax cuts. 49% of American's are in the middle class and most of them won't have as much money in their pocket to spend.

So there it is in a nut shell.

It's why trickle down economics never worked. It's the same ole thing over and over with conservatives. Rape the middle class who make up 50% of the tax base. Hike their taxes enough to make up the deficit. Take away their Heath care and charge them outrageous prices for meds. Raise the prices on outdated energy sources and power grids. Take away funding for American Women, minorities, the poor, and retched. Take away funding for parks and recreation. Exploit our National Parks and mine them for profits. Burden the middle class with most of the tax bill and give it directly to corporations as welfare to compete in a global markets many don't even compete in. And then give another tax break to the wealthiest American's who own them.

Link?

Link?

I hear you talk how corporations are greedy evil people. So going by that logic, they are going to put there money where ever they will be able to keep most of it. You are really hurting your own logic on this.

I don't live in Oh, not sure what their local and state taxes are. But in general, the top 7 states in taxes receive 50% of the of the value of the deduction on federal income tax returns for state and local taxes. Seems like those blue states used a way in the tax code to save themselves money, and have the rest of the country pay for it.

Of course they are. You're the one that said they want to bring back. Nothing is coming back. And slashing their taxes to 20% isn't going bring it back. Their just taking it away from the middle class and giving it out in corp welfare to the rich. It's Conservative Peter paying Conservative Paul with middle class Mary's money.

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/arc...-takers/361668/


Which States Are Givers and Which Are Takers?
And is that even the correct way to frame the question?
Updated on March 8, 2017

Maps showing regional differences among Americans are all the rage these days, such as this depiction of the contours of baseball fandom, or this one of the beers we're alleged to favor, or this showing the places in America where none of us lives, or this creative video/map showing where Americans use different words for common things such as soda.

For my money, one of the more interesting maps appearing recently came from the personal-finance website WalletHub. Analysts there set out to determine how states compare in terms of their reliance on federal funding.

The WalletHub analysts essentially asked how much each state receives back as a return on its federal income-tax investment. They compared the 50 states and the District of Columbia on three metrics: 1) federal spending per capita compared with every dollar paid in federal income taxes; 2) the percentage of a state’s annual revenue that comes from federal funding; and 3) the number of federal employees per capita. The third measure received only half the weight of each of the others in the calculation.

What the resulting map shows is that the most “dependent states,” as measured by the composite score, are Mississippi and New Mexico, each of which gets back about $3 in federal spending for every dollar they send to the federal treasury in taxes. Alabama and Louisiana are close behind.

If you look only at the first measure—how much the federal government spends per person in each state compared with the amount its citizens pay in federal income taxes—other states stand out, particularly South Carolina: The Palmetto State receives $7.87 back from Washington for every $1 its citizens pay in federal tax. This bar chart, made from WalletHub's data, reveals the sharp discrepancies among states on that measure.

On the other side of this group, folks in 14 states, including Delaware, Minnesota, Illinois, Nebraska, and Ohio, get back less than $1 for each $1 they spend in taxes.

It’s not just that some states are getting way more in return for their federal tax dollars, but the disproportionate amount of federal aid that some states receive allows them to keep their own taxes artificially low. That's the argument WalletHub analysts make in their 2014 Report on Best and Worst States to Be a Taxpayer.

Part of the explanation for why southern states dominate the “most dependent” category is historical. During the many decades in the 20th century when the South was solidly Democratic, its congressional representatives in both the House and the Senate, enjoying great seniority, came to hold leadership positions on powerful committees, which they used to send federal dollars back to their home states in the form of contracts, projects, installations.

Another part of the explanation is easier to discern. The reddest states on that map at the top—Mississippi, Alabama, Louisiana, New Mexico, Maine—have exceptionally high poverty rates and thus receive disproportionately large shares of federal dollars. Through a variety of social programs, the federal government disburses hundreds of billions of dollars each year to maintain a “safety net” intended to help the neediest among us. Consider, for example, the percentage of each state’s residents who get “food stamps” through the federal government’s SNAP program. This chart tells the story.

Only seven states have no state income tax. Many more states had their majority populace vote for Trump. This is far from a red/blue state issue.

You missed what I was saying. Completely. The code that allows states to write off local and state taxes is the problem. The top 7 states with the highest taxes in state and local deductions, receive 50% of the total value of deductions. With that code being repealed, those people are now going to see their taxes increase significantly, thus forcing a change in local and state taxes. You see, those 7 states are blue states. So the rest of the country is subsidizing their deductions.

Thanks Obama!

doenst do a lot of good when its negated by more taxes and 120% increase in healthcare - thanks Obama.

So blame him for the bad and ignore the good. How did I know that's what you would do? And I didn't know that Obama raised taxes in 2015 or 2016?

I was the one who posted the increase form 15 to 16 did i not? that is exact opposite of ignoring the good.....hahahahahah wow, way to try to twist a fact.

you realize the rich are actually going to be paying above 39.5 right? . . . . . so your argument if flawed at best

Hidden Tax

If you're clearing a million a year, and you're paying 46%, you need to fire whoever is preparing your taxes.