DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum You're the owner, how would you turn this mess around?

You may have a point if we ever find out, for sure, why NE didn't want us to bid against SF. Right now we have educated guesses, but none of them fully explain why they didn't allow us to up the price on someone they decided was basically gone.

You have to keep the team together. (Players)

You have to stop cutting veteran players, and good veteran players, especially in the offseason, and especially when the player to take their spot hasn't earned it yet.

You have to prove you can do the basics, before you try to do complicated things; Keep it simple.

I think the coach is most responsible for the W-L coloum; and that goes for 30 years, not just talking about any one situation.

OH, and as everybody always said, you have to build through the draft, meaning you can't avoid the draft for adding hope to the future of your team.
But if you don't do those first 3, the draft thing won't really help you much.

Now that the inital fury is subsiding, the truth is beginning to surface. Maybe we aren't as bumbling as many think. I some cases, hope.

It looks like everything is already in place, they've made all the changes they wanted to,
so the wins should already be happening.

I'm terribly sorry you read something most likely true that you didn't want to. I mean Terry Pluto is known for putting out crap, right?

But, to quote you, "carry on".

All sources are hidden. Where have you been?

No offense, but not everyone holds Terry Pluto up as the Oracle of Everything Browns. Me, for instance.

It's because you don't know what you are talking about.

Writers never reveal their source, otherwise, they will no longer be a source. I am sure you weren't against a source named Deepthroat.

j/c

We should clearly be believing Mary K. I mean... She's changed her story at least a half dozen times. One of them must be true. Smh.

Obvious to us, but not obvious to Sashi Brown. I can see him trading down our picks and not getting a QB.

J/C

It's amazing how many people will grab on to one quote - no matter which "side" the quote supports - and use it to "prove" they are right or that someone else is wrong. That's not a knock on the quote in the Pluto article or any quote in any other article. I think someone said it above (or on another thread), but people are going to believe what they want to believe.

Me either. I think his opinions aren't very good. But he doesn't make crap up when referencing his inside information and where it comes from.

Like I said in the thread that disappeared, imo you can always count on Pluto to put out a narrative that puts the Browns FO actions in the best possible light. I've seen it more than a few times. He tends to be a Browns PR mouthpiece. Again - its JMO. Hal Lebovitz made a career out of it when Modell was here.

NFL trade wave ... explained!

By Tom Pelissero NFL.com reporter Published: Nov. 4, 2017 at 08:35 a.m.


http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000...ions-for-week-9

6) Then there's the Jimmy Garoppolo trade, which left plenty of people around the NFL scratching their heads about why some other team didn't offer the New England Patriots more than the 2018 second-round draft pick that brought the 49ers a potential franchise QB.

I had the same reaction. But the more I've talked to people who know how Patriots coach Bill Belichick operates, the more it made sense.

"I give credit to San Francisco," said one GM who has done business with Belichick, "because in the offseason, four or five teams called (the Patriots) and they said, 'Absolutely not. No way.' "

San Francisco GM John Lynch confirmed as much, saying his team approached New England about Garoppolo earlier in the offseason and was "quickly shut down." But those calls during the offseason surely gave Belichick a sense of the marketplace.

Great as Tom Brady is, there was little precedent for a QB to keep performing at an elite level at age 40. Hanging on to Garoppolo bought time to evaluate Brady's play and whether they could do some kind of an extension with Garoppolo -- the same agency, Yee & Dubin Sports, represents both QBs -- all the while knowing that franchise-tagging a backup for around $23.3 million come March wouldn't be a particularly palatable option. (My understanding is no deal with Garoppolo was ever close.)

"They kept the insurance policy," said another NFL executive who has done business with Belichick. "The risk was greater back in April. It's less now. And it's also the deadline. This was their last chance to get the best that they can. ... Now, they're halfway through the season. They know they're going to lose the player. If they lose the player, even if it's one of the most outrageous contracts in history, the best they can get is a compensatory third."

That'd be a pick at the end of the third round in 2019, which GMs really look at as a pick at the end of the fourth (devalued because it's a year away). The 49ers are 0-8, so their second-round pick should be just outside the first, making it, in essence, a three-round jump for the Patriots from the best-case scenario under the comp-pick formula. And there's no guarantee the Patriots would've gotten a comp pick at all, since the formula offsets free-agent gains and losses.

The Patriots have $158 million in cap commitments for 2018, per NFL Players Association records. They could've restructured some things and made the numbers work to franchise-tag Garoppolo and then try to deal him, as they did in 2009 with Matt Cassel before trading him to Kansas City. But as another NFL exec explained, that scenario could've yielded a tougher trade market. For one thing, the franchise tender would be guaranteed the moment Garoppolo signed it, giving him additional leverage in contract talks with a new club.

As for the idea Belichick chose not to send Garoppolo somewhere else -- e.g. Cleveland -- for more compensation, one of the execs said: "Belichick's a mercenary. What's best for the team is the most currency that you can get." Just last year, Belichick traded linebacker Jamie Collins to the Browns at the deadline for a third-round compensatory pick in another surprise move with a player on an expiring deal. (Of course, how Belichick felt about Garoppolo and Collins is a different conversation.) NFL Media Insider Ian Rapoport reported the Browns offered a second-round pick and change for Garoppolo during the draft, but it stands to reason the offer would be less six months later, midway through a lost season. And you can bet any possible suitor made some educated calculations about whether Garoppolo would sign a long-term deal there if acquired.

Maybe it's a product of having more willing trade partners, but consider this: From 2002 to 2011, there were 31 trades within a week of the deadline, and Belichick was involved in only one (re-acquiring receiver Deion Branch from the Seattle Seahawks in 2010). From 2012 through this year, there have been 17 such trades -- and Belichick has been involved in eight of them.

People I asked about that stat cautioned me not to read too much into it or think Belichick has figured out a previously light market. Asked on a conference call Tuesday if he could explain what's creating opportunities for big trades around the league, Belichick said: "Probably not. ... I'm not trying to analyze league trends and figure out what everybody else is doing. I'm trying to do what's best for our football team."

In this case, that meant making the most surprising move in a week full of them.

Baker Mayfield today I think was 18-27 or something.

The First thing I look at in a quarterback is did they keep the number that wasn't completed, small.

If you go 26 for 46, and throw for a MILLION yards, I don't care,
I'm much more interested in someone who can sometimes go 12 for 16, for 128 yards or something like that.
It's efficiency, and it translates to the next level more times.

There's a lot not to like about the Sam Darnolds, and Josh Rosens',

Don't forget, it is VERY VERY important how a player (Any player) plays in their bowl games and against the toughest competition individually.
To guess who is going to end up being a good player.

Sure would be nice if he ever payed a team with a D ...

That conference sucks on D .. its NON EXISTENT ... its so hard to evaluate any O players in that conference ...

TCU plays decent D....not great but pretty good. He will probably get a shot at a good team in a bowl game as well. I like a few of the QVs this year and Mayfield is up there.

Especially if Hue is the only coach at a private workout for a top QB and comes home gushing over RG3 instead.

It is quite simple to find consistent, reliable "sources" of info in the media who are stating that we had no shot at JG.

Sashi deserves an award for botching that McC trade - if that's what he did. Years of building draft capital shot right in the foot if that trade gets made.

There is no story here.

My incredulity with the whole idea that the Browns had "no shot" at Garappolo comes from the trade being portrayed as Belichick doing Jimmy a solid by trading him where he wants to go, instead of trading him to a team that could offer the Patriots the best return. My observation of BB for about a quarter century is that he would throw in the beloved family dog in a trade if it would net an extra 5th round pick. He has never, to my knowledge, allowed sentimentality to interfere with him making his best deal, and improving his team.

Regarding "league sources"; it is a lazy, soft, and shabby type of journalism that constantly hides behind that time-honored canard. I'm sure its necessary some of the time, but come on, not every time. Its become the journalistic equivalent to "trust me on this". Sometimes I think "league sources" means "other journalists", and other times I think it is team officials deflecting a negative story by putting out the story that they want out there through the usual sock puppets.

I agree that BB would sell his family dog for a draft pick...HOWEVER...the convenience with which he landed a vet backup - who he is familiar with - trumps the silly notion that he was heaven-bent on doing JG a solid (which I too find far-fetched). In the end, we could not offer that backup QB insurance and we ARE in the AFC with them.

When I mentioned "sources of information" above, I am talking about years of reading other websites and "information" from a small handful of people whose info consistently pans out. Not MKC finding a mole in Berea. FWIW, those same sources are ecstatic that the McC trade didn't happen.

Hey Willie ..

U are the president of the lollipop club ... Mr. Peen is your VP ...

*L* ...

Perhaps...perhaps we are hitting the nail squarely on the head and I am actually the President of the Carpenters Union.

What would you do if you were Sashi and you spent two years being ridiculed for your 3+ year plan only to have an impetuous owner and HC attempt to blow up that two years of turd-eating in one fell swoop...over a Kessler-clone? Sashi should be given a bonus for what he did...or didn't.

IMO, backup QBs are like nickels to Belichick. I think its likely BB knows that if Brady gets hurt, the Patriots' season is over, Hoyer or no Hoyer. As far as not wanting to trade inside the conference; heck, he traded Bledsoe inside his division, to Buffalo.

Sure, if he goes down for the season. What about 1-2 games? Hoyer gives them a shot to win. He can step right in and run the O. At this point it is about securing a playoff spot.

The intra-division thing is just icing on the cake. Their #2 and our #2 will be within a couple spots. Hoyer was the tipping point unless we offered our 1st...which we weren't going to do.

He either disobeyed a direct order from the boss .. the fact his boss is a thief and a clown don’t matter ... u can’t DISOBEY A DIRECT ORDER from him ...

OR

Due to his INCOMPETENCE we didn’t complete the trade ...

If that’s the case ... thats a dual edge sword ...

He’s INCOMPTENT and he just told the rest of the league hes a SNAKE and CAN’T BE TAKEN AT HIS WORD ..

U guys can make all the excuses u want ... when its all said and done .. u end up with one of the above scenarios ...

Hue needs to go also ... u can’t have your coaches emailing every media outlet and thrashing your FO ... and you can’t have your daughter destroying them in tweets at the same time ..

And Willie .. thats not really what i mean ...

The lollipop club to me is the folks like U and Peen and tabber that think this FO and coaching staff can work together again .. thats never never land crap ...

Sorry bro .. it just is .. u know how toxic that relationship is now ..

Thats more of what i meant ...

People fall out - seriously - all the time. Husbands and wives do it.

Adults talk to each other, clear the air and try to mend fences if the goal is a common one.

It may not happen here but there is so much clamour and gusto claiming broken bridges when we, in fact, know nothing of the dynamic - the true dynamic - at the heart of the organisation. Stress and losing causes friction.

I'm hoping it can be fixed. If it can't, we move on. Whoever is in charge next year will make a leap forward and will be labelled saviours (not in a walking dead sense...) for it.

I just don't get that adults can't get over past events, in an adult - hell, in a professional capacity. People do it all the time. They just need to WANT to. That's the key.

And we'll add one win per year and continue to say, "We're young, give it time"! Somewhere around 2025 we hit the 500 mark...

Moving towards the twenty year mark and we haven't much to show for it...

Its a process - didn't you get the memo?

Got a stack of them from every crap regime that has passed through the last 19 years.

Tell me about it. I got old waiting for this team to be competitive since the return. I don't want to be morbid or a drama queen, but some of us have reached the age where "3-4 years down the road" might not be in the cards. I'm not planning on it, but you never know.

Amen to that I was 43 when we returned in 1999 now I'm 61 ...

I turned 65 in June. I would like to see us in a SB. I did watch 64 championship game though.

I was 3...

FIRE HUE!!!! Then find a coach like Sean McVay. FIRE the FO!!! Then find a great QB!! The End!

Haven't read this thread so hopefully not repeating too much.

I think the mistake that was made is counting on Andrew Berry to be our football guy in the FO. The Colts have done a terrible job finding talent for their roster. They lucked into Luck. Other than that they have been pretty horrendous. Then didn't we double down and hire Grigson?

We need to hire a quality football talent evaluator.
Fix the Qb position.
Mend the fences between the current FO and Hue.

We are set up quite nicely in this upcoming draft. We can't screw it up.