DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Kevin Spacey and Hollywood

I know there hasn't been a lot of talk on this board about this, and while it will probably get political, i hope that at it doesn't go that route too early in this thread.

I wanted to share my thoughts on this whole situation, as i feel as a society, far too often we don't give this topic the attention it unfortunately deserves. far too often, we want to forget about it quickly, because it does remind us that there are truly situations and events quite worse than death. and one of those situations is being sexually assaulted/molested/raped.

Kevin Spacey is one hell of an actor. He has been the lead role in some truly great, timeless films.

But with actors and athletes and singers/rappers like him, sometimes because of their talent, we as society tend to want to immediately dismiss any allegations from women and/or men because of their position, and whatever personal standing we have with them.

What kevin spacey has done to multiple men (boys when the incidents occurred) deserves nothing short of prison time. What he did is absolutely disgusting, it has scarred the people he has violated for life, and he doesn't deserve to act in a straight to DVD movie, as far as i'm concerned.

Hollywood - like religion IMO - has become essentially a shell industry for pedophiles, sexual predators, and overall low lives of our society. Far too long, men have embedded themselves in this industry/lifestyle in order to use their positions to prey on women and men, sometimes young girls and boys, to advance their sexual desires. Through blackballing women and men who speak out, to verballing assaulting anyone who dares shines a light on this situation, Hollywood has managed to sweep most issues under the rug.

I'm glad they are no longer allowed to. I hope every last one of these disgusting animals is outed, forced to speak publicly on their transgressions, and if necessary, charged and convicted in the court of law.

Women in Hollywood, who go their looking to start a career in music or acting, are treated as nothing but trophies for older wealthy men to parade around. They are often forced into a quid pro quo arrangement just to further their careers. if they speak out, they are instantly blackballed regardless on if the allegations are true or not. if they don't, while their careers MIGHT take off based on talent, they will have kept silent on something that will haunt them for the rest of their lives, or until they decide they are big enough to speak out against these incidents that it won't negatively affect their careers.

Women are too often used as nothing more than playtoys in our society, specifically industries that yield a good career, but in an incognito way. Even in the daily workforce, they are subject to cat calls, sexual innuendos, and verbal harassment for no other reason than their gender.

and Hollywood is the epitome of that treatment.

While i am glad that Hollywood is finally trying to clean house and rid themselves of these disgusting people, i hope that not only the people who run hollywood, but the actors and actresses finally start speaking up WHEN these incidents occur. we live in a society where we have enabled these freaks to the point where even if they are kicked out, they have enough wealth where it doesn't matter.

Let's hope actors and actresses continue to speak out, so that the cycle can finally be broken.

1) This does not belong in a "politics" thread

2) it's a worthy discussion

I've known Spacey was a creep for a long time. It's an open secret. Several others in our line of work fit that bill (hint: last name is two letters - first is C, second is K).

I'm thinking most of the "entertainment" business is full of perverts.

If someone is in it, they've probably been abused. At least a good portion of them. Especially females, or younger males.

As the younger males, especially, get money and some power, they return the "favor" so to speak. It's kind of a rite of passage in the "entertainment" business, no?

I'm surprised to here you say that about Lewis C.K. a while back, you were one of his big fans.

Yet the 42nd President still gets a pass, right?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Clinton_sexual_misconduct_allegations

He's a sexual predator and a rapist, as is the current president.

I know the man personally and am a big fan of his work.

But...

Use sexy guys get treated the same way. I am tired of women treating me as just their own personal sex toy.

Now on a serious not I agree with you that anybody who sexually assults/molest's/or rapes another human being needs the book thrown at them.

So how much do you know about that you haven't said anything about?

I've told stories privately, but publicly, I feel it's up to the people who have had the encounters whether or not they want the laundry aired.

Who the hell cares if it goes 'public'?

Did you DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT?

Being in an industry that PRIDES itself on being for the oppressed, the marginalized and the taken advantage of, recent events point to the blistering fact that none of you really are FOR that.

I'm glad Ashley Judd made it out of Harvey's hotel room, but she's about as glaring a hypocrite as you're gonna find.

She let him get away with it for YEARS.

What exactly is there to do? Call the Times and say "Hey, this guy blocked the door and whacked off while my friend was still in the room?" The very next question would be "who is your friend?". My friend doesn't want that information being public. If I don't give a name, it's heresay, and an uncorroborated story that they won't run. And if they do run it, my career is in the toilet and I'm open for a lawsuit, because it's heresay.

I agree with you that silence is a weapon in these cases, but it's not always remedied by merely spreading what amounts to gossip if it's uncorroborated.

There's a reason a lot of these stories go unreported for years, and it's not just because people are being irresponsible.

i think one of the big problems with this topic is people's willingness to stay complicit, complacent, and/or aren't willing to step up and speak out against these problems.

even if it is a "he said/she said" situation, at the very least you will force the alleged perpetrator to think twice the next time he/she wants to victimize someone else.

there's no way i could factually know about a sexual assault and not say anything. I feel like thats indirectly enabling.

The problem here is that people often don't listen or believe when accusations are made.

Type C.K. and pervert into Google. This isn't a shocking revelation. People have been talking about it for years.

Hell, 50+ women came out with the *exact* same stories about Cosby...he's still walking around free.

well lets talk about it.

why do you think that is?

There's a lot to unpack.

A lot of "boys being boys", "she was asking for it", "what was she doing in his room at that hour?", etc.

From personal experience...I can remember being 18-19 in college, and hearing stories about friends of mine and thinking "No way, he would never do that", "he gets chicks all the time, why would he rape a girl?", etc.

Years later, with reflection...those guys probably did rape those girls. There's a feeling of shame I carry about that, and even while reflecting sometimes I can't explain why I felt or thought that way, didn't consider these women's accusations.

This is a good thread and a good discussion to have.

You can't just stand by and not say something. You have to go to the authorities. If the victim doesn't want to, you have to find a way to (in a supportive, friendly loving and as understanding way possible) encourage them to do the same.

If you don't, they're just gonna continue (as is obvious, Hollywood power player or not) to do evil things to people.

I agree with this, to a point.

But one must also consider the feelings of a victim. Often times, they just want to forget it. Not to mention, the odds of conviction are statistically very low, and the trial - if it even gets to that point (oftentimes cases won't be prosecuted) - will include a great deal of character assassination and a dredging of private sexual history. Any defense attorney worth their salt will try to publicly paint you as a slut, and chances are, the accused will be found not guilty.

And that's not even considering that it's very demoralizing and embarrassing to even admit it out loud for many people.

So, while I agree with your sentiment in theory, in practice, there's a lot more to weigh.

1/3 women are sexually assaulted or harassed. I think we're all much more complicit than anyone would like to admit.

When Hillary said every woman who made these accusations deserved to be believed she was wrong.

Believed? No

TAKEN SERIOUSLY? ABSOLUTELY. Investigations need to follow.

What does, she was asking for it even mean? Dressing provocatively and being a tease and therefore she caused the circumstance that led up to the assault?

That doesn't fly.

There's no 'asking for it'.

Doesn't matter what time she was 'in the room'.

No one said the hero's road was easy. How else to you stop a predator?

A lot of women don't report it because they are ashamed and don't want to feel judged.

When that guy broke into my apartment and attacked me (He did not rape me), I did not report it. I didn't want anyone to know. I was tremendously frightened and didn't want to have explain it to anyone.

I told 1 close friend.

And my boyfriend when he came home from work. He said I deserved it because I opened the door. [censored].

Anyways that was 20 years ago, and I can tell you things have not changed and there has been no social progress with this topic.

I would agree in sentiment that it doesn't fly.

In reality...unfortunately, it does, all the time.

I've heard plenty of stories, personally and in media, where even *the police* made such comments when the report was being made. "What were you wearing?", "What were you doing in his room at 2 am?", etc.

Look, I agree with you 100% in sentiment, and I truly wish it worked that way. But in many cases, sadly, stuff like this is a reality.

yep. a lot of victim blaming. not every single case, but way too many overall.

the worst one i hear is "what was she wearing" or "she dressed like a slut". the rationality we as men do to justify sexual harassment and assault is mind boggling.

"she was drunk"
"she didn't say no"

i just go back to the enabling our own justice system allows. for example, the stanford swimmer who got a slap on the wrist for rape. it's disgusting.

I'm sorry to hear you had to go through that.

I'm really sorry you went through that, and even more sorry your ass hole ex said something horrible like that.

Myself as well.

As a dad, if this happens to my daughter, I'll ask her what she was doing in the room at what hour, what she was wearing and how she was acting, it's my job to teach her the facts of life and enough wisdom to not put yourself in that situation.

As an officer of the law, your concern isn't the time of day, what she was wearing or the location.

To quote Jack Webb: Just the facts ma'am.

the problem is that the line between prevention and victim blaming is often blurred.

for example, telling my daughter before hand how creeps operate and how to lower the risk of sexual assault/rape is prevention, such as "wear something like this.."

however, after the assault has been committed, going "what were you wearing?" is straight up victim blaming.

as if she was the one who caused the rape to occur. at the point, one is instantly taking heat off the actual predator and saying the woman was a fault for being innocent.

As I always say.

ALL MEN ARE DOGS. Some of us are just better trained

And if there was doubt? This is why a lot of women do not come forward.

Please don't ruin Lewis Ck for me......

I am torn, as I am not sure if this is a huge Hollywood problem or huge United States problem, and only Hollywood gets the attention for obvious reasons.

If you were genuinely raped, it can be medically proven if examined soon enough can’t it?

Tragic experience upon tragic experience I know, but I asked my older daughter how she would feel if she was the next victim because the last victim let the guy get away with it.

She said she’s the type of person that would speak up but she understands why someone wouldn’t.

I don't think this is a political topic, but I have enjoyed the conversation for the most part. Most people are being thoughtful.

I have a lot to say on the subject, but man, there are people on here that will slander and misrepresent those comments.

I'll just say that it's tough because there is no doubt that victims of sexual predators often get put on trial and that innocent folks accused of such acts are often branded and punished even if their innocence is later proven.

Btw, have you guys seen all the stuff coming out about Dustin Hoffman? Man, the past year or two have just shattered Hollywood images.

Yep. Right now no one is safe.

Many people are making valid points in this discussion IMO.

I understand the "report it right away" thing. I understand the "it happened to my friend, so I'll report it" thing.

I understand a victim not wanting to report it. I understand a friend wanting to report it but not doing so.

I understand it can, and often is a he said she said thing.

I understand questioning a victim - to a point.

I also understand that a baseless claim can ruin/harm the accused reputation beyond repair in some cases.

Sad thing is, it happens way too often, and if not reported, it can lead to the "accused" feeling like they'll never get caught, which can enable/empower them to continue such acts.


Just had a discussion with a female friend not too long ago. About a chiropractor she goes to. She thinks he's great. She even said "he's so conscientious - he never closes the office door. He's aware, etc etc.

I said "he has to be. 1 false claim, he's possibly out of business. That's just the way it is, sadly."

I tell my wife, but especially my daughter - be aware of your situation/surroundings all the time.

I don't think that's being a "bad dad/husband".

I am very conscious of things for myself as well, for the same reasons.

Each and every situation is different, and individual.

Sadly, there is no final "answer".

It's just all messed up.

Over the years I have found that paying them for silence has worked pretty well.