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Honestly, and from the Chicago game only, the number of risky throws was alarming, not just that, but the type of throws... few yards and Int potential of the throws, its more of a boom or bust, backup QB mentality....
You won't win this argument. I actually agree with you, but I'm sure we'll be in the minority. For a QB in a new system the amount of time JG has been ... I think he showed a hell of a lot of promise. I wouldn't proclaim him a legit franchise QB just yet - but dang, as far as going through progressions fast, quick release and good to great accuracy - I don't know what else you can ask for. There might have been couple of bad choices and decisions that I saw .... but if the dude believes in his arm strength and ability to make the play, I'd much rather he try to make the touch thrown than dither. . . . If Jimmy Garopollo was the QB of the Browns yesterday vs the Chargers we could have put up 30+ points.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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Does anyone think that Hoyer is worth a second round pick? LOL
Maybe you guys ARE trying to deceive people. Well according to most Browns fans it was worth over 15 mil for the second round pick we got by signing BO. So no, Hoyer isn't worth 15+ million. I mean they can't have it both ways can they? Or can they? lmao There are a handful of them and I just addressed two of them. They are full of crap. They defend every move the FO makes and blame Hue for all our ills. That is so illogically lame that I can't even begin to express it.
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Guys on this board can bash JG, but the look on the faces of his teammates said it all.
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JG looked far ahead of most rookies you could throw out there. He's only had a couple of weeks to learn the system and he'll get better from here.
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Funny how some guys think they are so brilliant and others are full of crap just because we think different, we all have our opinions and if any of us were "brilliant" we would be in the draft war room on draft day ... just sayin' 
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
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Honestly, and from the Chicago game only, the number of risky throws was alarming, not just that, but the type of throws... few yards and Int potential of the throws, its more of a boom or bust, backup QB mentality....
You won't win this argument. I actually agree with you, but I'm sure we'll be in the minority. For a QB in a new system the amount of time JG has been ... I think he showed a hell of a lot of promise. I wouldn't proclaim him a legit franchise QB just yet - but dang, as far as going through progressions fast, quick release and good to great accuracy - I don't know what else you can ask for. There might have been couple of bad choices and decisions that I saw .... but if the dude believes in his arm strength and ability to make the play, I'd much rather he try to make the touch thrown than dither. . . . If Jimmy Garopollo was the QB of the Browns yesterday vs the Chargers we could have put up 30+ points. I wasn't bashing JG. I was just puzzled with his decision process. I found myself comparing JG and Trubisky, and although I was not a fan of Mitch, I actually believe he is a better QB, making better decisions, than JG... but that is my feeling from the game. I believe they are both good Qb's, but I don't think a short passer, dink donk, risk taker QB has any future on this league....
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What game were you watching?
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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What game were you watching? Probably the same one you were watching, but actually most of what we see is dependent on how we see it... I never liked Romo or Cutler very much.... So that can explain the way I see some things.
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Instead of posting cryptic posts, you could elaborate a bit on this... Not the usual, you are not talking football crap... From this game, there was some good things to build on, but there were also bad things that we have seen before... All and all I came under the impression that JG is a good Qb, but not an elite one... Maybe I'm wrong, maybe he is not even a good QB or maybe he is a HOFER...
Last edited by rastanplan; 12/05/17 10:04 AM.
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j/c:
Garrapolo got his first start w/SF today. I watched the majority of the game.
He had a pick, but the defender ripped the ball out of the WRs hands.
Otherwise, JG looked very, very good! Very poised. Quick decisions. Going through progressions when needed. Accurate throws most of the time and a ton where he led the guys perfectly so they could get YAC. He made a bunch of 3rd and long conversions and led his team on an 80 yard winning FG drive.
People on here were making fun of Lynch being hired in SF, but he was able to trade for JG while our Harvard brain[sic] trust was not.
2. It was made very clear that the PATs did not want to discuss trade with us as we asked a couple days before the trade was made. We did not have Hoyer who was a big instrument in the deal. I fail to see your point that our FO is inept in some way.
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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I already expounded. I was the one who brought the thread back up.
Sometimes I wonder if you purposely post absurd evaluations just to draw attention, because it's hard to believe that anyone could be so far off base as you are w/your observations.
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I fail to see your point that our FO is inept in some way. LOL...........now there is a surprise.
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I already expounded. I was the one who brought the thread back up.
Sometimes I wonder if you purposely post absurd evaluations just to draw attention, because it's hard to believe that anyone could be so far off base as you are w/your observations. So you are saying that I was the only one who saw: JG taking high risk on plays for short gains? The dink donk, short passing game? Maybe stats would help me... maybe if most of the plays and passes he did were for less than 10 yrds...
Last edited by rastanplan; 12/05/17 10:22 AM.
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He played well enough to get them a win.
He has the arm to throw a 60 yard plus pass easy enough. I imagine they limited deep throws because he is still learning the playbook and they are not confident the O-line can block long enough to let him safely make those deep passes that require an extra second or two of pass protection to develop. I mean they have one of the worst o-lines in football.
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
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No, I am saying that he was accurate and that most of his passes led to his receivers getting YAC. I am saying that he was poised in the pocket. I am saying he displayed a quick release. I am saying he led his team to victory. I am saying that SF doesn't have many weapons, but he played well. I am saying that there were season highs in many categories in what was his first game. I am saying he zipped the ball into some tight spaces and threw w/touch when he had to. I am saying that James Loften, the HOF WR who was announcing the game was indeed singing his praises and saying many of the same things that I am.
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No, I am saying that he was accurate and that most of his passes led to his receivers getting YAC. I am saying that he was poised in the pocket. I am saying he displayed a quick release. I am saying he led his team to victory. I am saying that SF doesn't have many weapons, but he played well. I am saying that there were season highs in many categories in what was his first game. I am saying he zipped the ball into some tight spaces and threw w/touch when he had to. I am saying that James Loften, the HOF WR who was announcing the game was indeed singing his praises and saying many of the same things that I am.
And I agree with you in all of that, but.... No QB in this league can make a paycheck throwing to tight windows... they have to make the throws, but sooner or latter those windows will not exist... I was saying that JG looked to me like a backup QB, because he was insisting on making those throws, taking high risks, throwing to double and triple coverage. You must be able to do it, but you cannot make your living on that. So maybe he will stop doing that and he can find another dimension to his game, or maybe he can't do it,and sooner or later he will have a bad game in a decisive moment, the confidence he has will be rocked and he will end up like Charlie Frye... Like I have stated, I don't like dink donk, short game QB's... Actually its not that I don't like them, its just that I don't think those are the QB's that make the difference.
Last edited by rastanplan; 12/05/17 10:55 AM.
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You ever hear of the WCO? 5-10 yard passes hitting receivers in stride are it's bread and butter.
A deadly accurate QB who can throw into tight windows gaining 5 yards a pass will absolutely shred most defenses because it will be fast enough that blitzing doesn't work well because the ball is gone in under 3 seconds most of the time. 66% accuracy is all it takes to make 10 yards every down if you throw it every time. A 4 yard run and a 6 yard pass is a first down every time.
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
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You ever hear of the WCO? 5-10 yard passes hitting receivers in stride are it's bread and butter.
A deadly accurate QB who can throw into tight windows gaining 5 yards a pass will absolutely shred most defenses because it will be fast enough that blitzing doesn't work well because the ball is gone in under 3 seconds most of the time. 66% accuracy is all it takes to make 10 yards every down if you throw it every time. A 4 yard run and a 6 yard pass is a first down every time. I honestly think that WCO is a thing of the past, and WCO can be effective in a good team with superior coaching.. Also when the field gets shorter, WCO QB's are known to struggle, after all if you are looking for a QB that can execute perfectly you are going to get the drawback of no improvisation skills... WCO gunslingers are the worst type of QB's I can imagine.... You cannot ask a WCO QB to carry his team... and that is what is required right now in SF... All in all I don't think JG is an Alex Smith type (which was my assumption), in my eyes he looked more like Cutler...
Last edited by rastanplan; 12/05/17 11:59 AM.
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No, I am saying that he was accurate and that most of his passes led to his receivers getting YAC. I am saying that he was poised in the pocket. I am saying he displayed a quick release. I am saying he led his team to victory. I am saying that SF doesn't have many weapons, but he played well. I am saying that there were season highs in many categories in what was his first game. I am saying he zipped the ball into some tight spaces and threw w/touch when he had to. I am saying that James Loften, the HOF WR who was announcing the game was indeed singing his praises and saying many of the same things that I am.
You just described Baker Mayfield, but he's going to be so much better than Garoppolo...
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We are all entitled to our opinions but damn that is an odd take.
JG was executing the SF offense.
Part of the offense is based upon timing the QB drops to receiver patterns. The ball has to come quickly with accuracy. In addition check downs are apart the offense run by Shanahan.
Garoppolo is one of the most accurate throwers around and that includes deep balls.
Truly I have no idea where you are coming from.
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Again, I was not bashing JG But was watching the game, and this impression was the one that remained with me. For others it was the accuracy and quick release, for me it was the unnecessary risk taking in plays that didn't justify it, like he was playing a boom or bust game (AKA backup QB). Maybe its just an impression, I also never liked Cutler or Romo, and always thought the WCO was a waste of good Qb's and Receivers. By the way, my comparison was to Mitch Trubisky, which I think is showing great potential, not comparing JG to Kizer or other Browns QB's, so in no way was meant to be bashing JG. Also don't think saying JG is like (reminds me off) Cutler or Romo is being offensive to him... I concede the Frye comparison was not called, but Vers has that effect on posters... 
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" It was made very clear that the PATs did not want to discuss trade with us as we asked a couple days before the trade was made. We did not have Hoyer who was a big instrument in the deal. I fail to see your point that our FO is inept in some way."
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EO: I believe you are a knowledgeable fan. You know your X's and O's.
But I have no clue to where you are coming from on this. Who made it clear that the Pat's would not discuss a trade with us?
Hoyer was certainly a part of the Pat's backup plan. However, are you saying that if a better offer was made (including a QB off the Browns roster) that the Pat's would refuse to talk to the Browns?
No team would refuse discussing a trade if a better offer is made. That just doesn't make sense to me.
What does make sense is Sashi Brown was unwilling to offer more than a second round pick. Then it is understandable why the Pat's took the deal with Hoyer in toe.
What also makes sense is that Sashi Brown was not pro-active. He simply did not believe Garappolo was worth more than a second rounder. So he backed off the deal.
He also did not believe that Wentz would be anything more than average. And therein lies the problem.
Garoppolo was worth what we could have provided in trade if he was perceived as a franchise QB.
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" It was made very clear that the PATs did not want to discuss trade with us as we asked a couple days before the trade was made. We did not have Hoyer who was a big instrument in the deal. I fail to see your point that our FO is inept in some way."
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EO: I believe you are a knowledgeable fan. You know your X's and O's.
But I have no clue to where you are coming from on this. Who made it clear that the Pat's would not discuss a trade with us?
Hoyer was certainly a part of the Pat's backup plan. However, are you saying that if a better offer was made (including a QB off the Browns roster) that the Pat's would refuse to talk to the Browns?
No team would refuse discussing a trade if a better offer is made. That just doesn't make sense to me.
What does make sense is Sashi Brown was unwilling to offer more than a second round pick. Then it is understandable why the Pat's took the deal with Hoyer in toe.
What also makes sense is that Sashi Brown was not pro-active. He simply did not believe Garappolo was worth more than a second rounder. So he backed off the deal.
He also did not believe that Wentz would be anything more than average. And therein lies the problem.
Garoppolo was worth what we could have provided in trade if he was perceived as a franchise QB.
Why would you trade for JG when you have secured the 1st pick on the next draft? Hue was/is the one fighting to survive... That is my take Hue should have been fired/stepped down, for trying this trade, he didn't so we should move on.. There is a power struggle going on which appears to be bigger than the organization, unfortunately.
Last edited by rastanplan; 12/05/17 02:48 PM.
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You do realize that only the FO can approve and file the paperwork for any trade, right?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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"Why would you trade for JG when you have secured the 1st pick on the next draft?"
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Think about that. Because he is a better prospect and he is ready to play in the NFL.
Draft picks are inherently a risk? Because you never know completely what you are going to get.
That has been proven over and over again historically.
At this point in time none of the guys predicted to be first round selections would compare favorably to JG. He has experience in the NFL. And he has verifiable NFL skills.
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" It was made very clear that the PATs did not want to discuss trade with us as we asked a couple days before the trade was made. We did not have Hoyer who was a big instrument in the deal. I fail to see your point that our FO is inept in some way."
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EO: I believe you are a knowledgeable fan. You know your X's and O's.
But I have no clue to where you are coming from on this. Who made it clear that the Pat's would not discuss a trade with us?
Hoyer was certainly a part of the Pat's backup plan. However, are you saying that if a better offer was made (including a QB off the Browns roster) that the Pat's would refuse to talk to the Browns?
No team would refuse discussing a trade if a better offer is made. That just doesn't make sense to me.
What does make sense is Sashi Brown was unwilling to offer more than a second round pick. Then it is understandable why the Pat's took the deal with Hoyer in toe.
What also makes sense is that Sashi Brown was not pro-active. He simply did not believe Garappolo was worth more than a second rounder. So he backed off the deal.
He also did not believe that Wentz would be anything more than average. And therein lies the problem.
Garoppolo was worth what we could have provided in trade if he was perceived as a franchise QB.
Is there a max you would offer for Garoppolo? What do you feel the Browns should have offered for Garoppolo that the Patriots would say yes to over saying yes for an early second round pick and a much needed back-up QB?
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We are all entitled to our opinions but damn that is an odd take.
JG was executing the SF offense.
Part of the offense is based upon timing the QB drops to receiver patterns. The ball has to come quickly with accuracy. In addition check downs are apart the offense run by Shanahan.
Garoppolo is one of the most accurate throwers around and that includes deep balls.
Truly I have no idea where you are coming from.
I just watched the game ... I record all of Mitch’s. Goff’s, Wentz’s, Dak and now i will add JG’s games ... I LOVE watching these young kids develop ... its fun to watch them at the different stages ... Watson was included until he went down ... I’m with U bone .. NO CLUE what the beef is ... The first thing i noticed was how fun it was to watch a REAL NFL QB ... he’s got a shot to be real good ... He looked very good ... very very good ... went through his progressions at a good pace .... got the ball out quick ... hit his recievers in stride so they could get YAC .. it was IMPRESSIVE ... Even more impressive when u consider how long he’s been in Shanny’s O ... it took Ryan an entire year to look comfie in it ... the announcer said at the begginging of the game that Shanny planned to use all his TO’s in both halves on mis-communication with JG because JG didn’t even know a lot of the terminology ... Shanny’s worry was what was going to happen after they ran out of TO’s ... i fast forwarded in between plays but i do not believe they used even 1 TO due to JG’s lack of knowledge ... It’ll be fun to watch him therest of the year .. theres going to be some downs as he continues to learn the O and gets to know his recievers ... but i see no way in hell Shanny can put Beathard back in now ...
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Start with a first round pick.
Negotiate from there. Find out what would work for them. It has to be a win win for both parties.
Find out if they would have interest in any of our current quarterbacks?
We have lots of draft picks. Two first rounders and three second rounders.
Basically open a dialogue. Be a GM.
First you have to want Garoppolo.
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They called on Friday ... they SHOULD HAVE CALLED MONDAY ALSO ... thats called SMART BUSINESS ...
I don’t think we had a shot in hell .. they NEEDED a back up .. Hoyer was the ONLY OPTION ... that doesn’t excuse not MAKING THE CALL ON MONDAY ...
Only way we would have had a shot would have been to get creative .. make a deal with SF for Hoyer and then offer NE what SF could ... maybe a 1% chance of that happening ... well that’s BETTER THAN ZERO % chance witch is what we gave ourselves by NOT MAKING THE CALL ON MONDAY ...
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There's a term that almost everyone on this board knows and almost every poster has advocated. Well, until now.
Due diligence.
Now all we hear are excuses why that shouldn't have been followed.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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For me it is painful to watch Wentz and JG.
Because the Browns could have gotten either guy.
Wentz in particular. When we traded out of that pick I was ready to turn in my Browns card as a loyal fan for over 60 years.
Watching Wentz play now; he got really good very fast. I knew he would be good but I expected it would take longer.
Mitch, Goff and Dak we will see. All three are looking to have bright futures.
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For me it is painful to watch Wentz and JG.
Because the Browns could have gotten either guy.
Wentz in particular. When we traded out of that pick I was ready to turn in my Browns card as a loyal fan for over 60 years.
Watching Wentz play now; he got really good very fast. I knew he would be good but I expected it would take longer.
Mitch, Goff and Dak we will see. All three are looking to have bright futures.
Hue said that Wentz didn't fit his system...LOL
Exciting football will be back in Cleveland this fall!
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I cant blame u for that ... its not easy ...
watching the browns now BRINGS ME NO JOY ...
So i had 2 choices ...
GET OVER THE PAIN of not having them and enjoy watching Wentz and JG or have NOTHING TO ENJOY ...
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HI TONY ... Whats happening bud ... love your spirit my man ...  Can u please do me a favor and bring that over to one of the OTHER 5 THREADS its being discussed in and allow us to wallow in a different type of misery in this one ... *L* ... Seriously ... PLEASE PLEASE edit your post and take it to one of the other threads that his dominates ... Thanks bud ....
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I wish we had a guy who could do everything you say jg does. They seem like positives to me.
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I wish we had a guy who could do everything you say jg does. They seem like positives to me.  ... that was awesome ... I’m with U .. i wish we had a guy that sucked like JG ... Thanks for the laugh sir!
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I have moved on but it is still painful.
My focus now is another draft season.
There are things I love about Rosen, Darnold and Allen.
People are discounting Allen because his production was not there this year and he hurt his shoulder.
But scouts and GM's look past the surface. They will see that the talent around Allen was sub par. He will show well during the draft process. Very high potential.
These three guys offer very interesting contrasts. All have strengths and some weaknesses.
Rosen is a very polished passer. Does a lot of good things. There are some questions and he has had some injuries. But he is a top prospect.
Darnold really sticks with me. He is not as ready to play as Rosen. But I love his total package and potential.
Allen is very interesting. Mahomes went high last year. I see Allen as a better prospect.
So I am looking toward the future. This off season the Browns have the ability to upgrade the team dramatically.
My hope is that they get it right. My fear is that they will not.
It will be interesting to follow this process.
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Posts: 4,818 |
So you would be comfortable trading a top 10 pick for Garoppolo?
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 16,197
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 16,197 |
As fast as you can say ok.
A no brainer on many levels.
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