DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Kevin Spacey and Hollywood

I completely agree with you. Which is why I think Pence gets a bad rap about the having dinner with women thing. Honestly, in todays society, I do not blame him. Just like your friends chiropractor. I have female employees and I can tell you one thing for sure, when we have meetings or I am conducting coaching sessions, my door and blinds are always open.

Private lessons: On Day One, I tell the parents they are welcome to sit in any lessons they want. Drop in unannounced if they'd like. I want them to not only be informed regarding their child's progress, but be comfortable knowing their child is safe.

I stopped teaching out of my house when the Symph got new space.

Teens are notorious for not understanding consequences, and the last thing I (or any reputable teacher) need is some troubled teen starting up some drama by making up some story.

Public room with windows in the doors. It's the only way to go.

Clem, this could be such a great discussion if some of the extremists would stay out of it. LOL.......I didn't intend that to be as mean as it sounds.

Here is what I am thinking: There are no simple answers. There are no conclusive answers.

On one hand, we have an untold number of victims who have remained silent at the hands of abuse. That is horrific and disgusting. It really bothers me that so many victims have been put on trial. I hate to trivalize this w/a movie, but do you remember that movie w/Jodie Foster? I think it was called The Accused? She was dressed provactively and they destroyed her in court. But, she was raped. Man! Think about how many times that staged scenario has actually played out in the grit of real life?

On the other hand, there are so many examples of good people who are falsely accused of such crimes and their lives are forever altered, if not ruined. I know a guy who was a beloved teacher. Very respected and the kids and parents loved him. One girl made an accusation and he was immediately put on leave and ended up having to resign. The girl later admitted she lied, but the dude's career was over because no school district would touch him.

Clem, how do we balance such injustices on both sides?

Ah, well look here, this slightly interesting thread started by a man and mostly responded to by men has taken it's normal course. While I realize that the Spacey thing is about men, this Hollywood deal is more about the treatment of women. Let's expand this beyond Hollywood and to the rest of the real world. You poor guys have to be so careful because of the handful of girls who are liars and out to get you. My goodness, it's certainly has nothing to do with the the boorish and neanderthal behavior of your fellow men that has anything to do with you having to be too careful when dealing with girls/women in your every day lives. You poor things have been inconvenienced by the fact that women have been treated like crap in front of you for your entire lives, and finally people are taking notice.

I must make the obligatory statement here that anyone who makes false claims against anyone is a horrible individual, they hurt everyone who has been legitimately hurt, they are without a doubt, just as terrible as those they accuse.

Those that tell the truth, however, are vast in number. There is truthfully not a woman I know who did not experience, at some point in their working lives, moments where they were treated either inappropriately or harassed by men. If you all like I can recount the hundreds of times I've either witnessed, experienced, or been told of the treatment that has happened, but the point is, it is real and it happens every day around this world.

I always enjoy your takes, Jules. You post from a different perspective and it helps educate me.

I trust that you can learn from me, too?

Absolutely Vers, I love you and most men! Also like you, I hate when people are victimized. I just get a slightly perturbed when obvious things are ignored by those that wield the power. Some of us fight and win, but some are not so lucky or able to put up a fight.

Thanks Jules. I wish you would post more. I've always loved reading your takes. You are so level-headed and intelligent. I also like that you and I see things through different eyes due our gender. I think it is cool to get your takes and you almost always make me consider things from a different angle. I love to learn and you always help me learn, sweetheart.

Jules, I better add this in case I wasn't clear. You wouldn't get on me, but some might. You are absolutely right that there are far, far more victims than those who are falsely accused.

I had responded to Clem because like you, he is very fair and intelligent, and I think this is a complex issue that warrants intelligent conversation.

Agreed. I've yet to meet one.

That seems like an exaggeration, but after thinking about it for a moment, I bet it is true.

I'm sorry y'all have to endure that.

It only takes one incident at one point in your life to count as harassment. My bet is it's happened to most women more than once.

yep. my wife has received countless random D pics from strangers on social media.

i think workplace harassment might be the most common? i don't know and was hoping more women would speak on that about here.

my wife told me the most common form is the guy who will put their hands on a woman's shoulder like an super inappropriate massage. or the "harmless" hand on the knee/thigh area.

i also think one of the biggest problems is HOW it's handled.

i was training to be the SHARP(sexual harassment/assault response and prevention)rep in my unit when i was in the Army. and it sucked how they explained how everything goes down. and i think its common in the civilian world too.

guys would use their rank to get women who are lower enlisted into quid pro quo situations.

example "hey, let me take you to dinner, and we can talk about sending you to this training course". or "hey, lets go out and we can see about getting you a waiver for early promotion". that kind of stuff.

and then when women came forward, it would be a cluster that more often than not ended up ruining the woman's reputation, especially when it dealt with senior NCO's/officers. if those guys got accused and it was true, they wouldn't even get UCMJ action.

they would just get quietly moved to a new unit. or with the officers, they would be forced into "early retirement". so they essentially got rewarded for being a scumbag.

and as a father of two daughters, that crap worries me. i see crap like the stanford swimmer who raped a drunk student, only for the judge to say that jail would ruin the guy.

what about the woman he just violated? what about her being ruined. does that not matter?

it's not just America but around the world, but specifically in america, the way we deal with sexual harassment/assault is an absolute joke. not only are we not doing a good enough job as society to raise boys to be men, but we have a justice system that borderline enables this very behavior.

I had a coworker guy straight up walk up to me with a bunch of roses and plant one on my lips when I got promoted. It was kind of shocking. I didn't mind not seeing him again. Get me the hell out of this department.

I had a pervy old man boss who used to try to flirt with me. I didn't care much if some grandpa wanted me to smile at him. He gave me giant raises. Then I got out of that department also.

Yeah, this one hurt me more than most. I love his work too, he is someone who always makes me laugh, and that's so important to me. I read something from Tig Notaro, and thought, what?? Then read more and hated what I saw. Bah. People are no damn good.

This article explains a lot of what you stated PDF. This is in 2016, Yellowstone County, Billings, Montana.

0 out of 60

Of the 60 reported rapes in 2016, none were charged

By Ashley Nerbovig


Mar 26, 2017



During 2016, at least 60 rapes were reported in Yellowstone County.
Law enforcement sent 18 of the cases they investigated to the County Attorney’s office to be reviewed for charges and prosecution.

Not a single case was charged.

Rape cases are tough. Both police and prosecutors struggle getting the cases to trial. Once the case is filed, the public becomes the last hurdle and jurors bring their own biases into the courtroom. 

Full article

http://billingsgazette.com/feature/of-th...76b5cc4c0c.html

You mean some other guy gave you a lap dance

Honestly, I can say that if I was a teacher, I wouldn't even give private lessons. Sad.

It is blurred and I don't see any way it can't be blurred. We all tell our loved ones, our kids, our wives, etc.. take precaution. Don't go into certain parts of town at night, don't park in an isolated area at the mall, don't hang out with the "wrong crowd", don't stay out too late, lock your car doors, don't go waving a bunch of cash around, don't go anywhere with strangers, don't get so drunk you aren't in control of your own actions any more.. these are common sense precautions. It doesn't mean if you break one you DESERVE to have something bad happen to you, it just means the odds of bad things happening go up.... and yes, dressing very provocatively is one of those things.

The thing is that dressing provocatively is usually combined with at least one other risky behavior.. like getting too drunk, being isolated, or going somewhere with strangers.. then you really have increased your risk of something bad happening.

The art form would die if we all quit teaching private lessons.
MusEd in the public schools isn't intensive enough to create artist-caliber musicians. One-on-one is the only way to train for the level of proficiency required to play in America's orchestras.

It's also hard to walk away from $50-75/hr.
(And yes, I still teach pro bono for motivated students of need)

I didn't know you knew how to play the pro bono.

Welcome back, Jules.



It has as much to do with those louts as it does preserving my reputation. I was raised to be a gentleman in all aspects of life, and it galls me that this crap happens. I opened my first studio in 1978, and never concerned myself with something like this. Through the 80's more and more reports of abuse began surfacing, and the landscape changed. I guess I could put it this way: I changed to adapt to our new reality.

Also please note that I said 'troubled teen.' That includes boys, as well.

I don't consider it an inconvenience to teach at the Symphony Space at all. Studio space is rent-free, the facility is pleasant, open and ideal for lessons. AND... I don't have to kill an hour cleaning my house before the first student arrives.

As always, I do appreciate your observations. I'm also willing to learn more, so thanks for sharing your views.

I bet it has too.. and while this thread is about sexual harassment of women.. it's all branches of the same tree that includes bullying and other types of expressions of dominance that "the strong and powerful" think they should be able to get away with over "the weak or the powerless"...

though I would have to assume, and since it's never happened to me I can't say first hand.. but I would assume that the sexual component makes it worse.. more humiliating?

All of that is true, but that is not a defense for guys who rape women. Dressing provocatively, getting drunk, and hanging out w/new people are not crimes. It's not very smart, but again, it is not a crime.

The crime is rape and that is performed by the man who is taking advantage of the victim. Making poor life choices should not be punishable by rape.

No means no. That's it. There is no excuse, justification, or rationalization for rape!!!

6 out of every 1000 rapists face jail time. Most rape kits don't have the funds to be analyzed and sit in storage for years. I do not blame women at all for not coming forward about their assault, harassment and rape. Who would ever want to relive that moment just so some policeman can ask you how short your skirt was that night, while never talking to your rapist? I think we're all a lot more complacent with rapists and rape culture and it's been making me sick thinking about it.

j/c

https://www.yahoo.com/news/corey-haim-charlie-sheen-responds-232804881.html

And people look to Hollywood for inspiration? For examples?

I wouldn't look to Hollywood for an example of jack - other than sexual abuse.

This is just 1 more story that illustrates my position on actors and actresses. It's a power thing. Want in? Put out.

No wonder the box office is going downhill. (at least, I thought I read that).

I wouldn't take advice from a "star", or a writer for a star, for anything more than a piece of chocolate. Pretty much, anyone in the entertainment business - not all, but a damn lot of them - are perverted sacks that got to where they are by allowing themselves to be used, and once successful, following the pattern.

They think they are above it all.

I don’t know if anyone has looked at Hollywood as a whole for inspiration, more the actors/actresses themselves.

It's kinda crazy how we're looking only at Hollywood while the British Parliament is on fire because of sexual harassment claims. There's also been a lot of reports coming out of VCs and Silicon Valley. But again, I think people want to point fingers instead of looking around them.

Hollywood has the target on their back because of the liberalism values being pushed everyday out of there.

To have all these people speak out in support of equality and women’s rights etc, then come to find out its all a front, is the obvious answer as to why other examples aren’t getting attention that Hollywood is.

Then you combine that with how they push out conservatives actors like Tim Allen(I loved his shows and the new one he had), it’s pretty easy to point all the fingers at Hollywood.

They typically have the biggest voices/platform in America, and around the world, so we have to acknowledge that it’s hypocrisy at its finest coming out of Hollywood.

Nice post.
I agree. (and didn't Allen spend time in prison for drugs?) I think so, and he came out of it fine from what little I know.

But damn, it seems too many of the "rich and famous" were victims of sexual abuse, drug abuse, etc. Yet people look to those people as examples simply because they are/were famous.

That danged post made too much sense.

Tim Allen is currently the highest-paid actor in 2017 at $46 million and is currently filming lines for "Toy Story 4".

What exactly was he pushed out of?

You haven’t seen the drama surrounding his show “last man standing?” And why it was cancelled?

It was pulling a 1.7 in 18-49 in its sixth season. Cancellation with those numbers doesn't really strike me as controversial. If I was working on a show doing that, I'd be sending out spec packets. People will start to sweat with way higher ratings shares.

But, again, he's the biggest earning actor in Hollywood in 2017 and is currently filming a sequel to a film that brought in $415,000,000. What exactly is he being pushed out of?

I am not as educated as you and others on this subject, but Tim Allen has stated that the conservative nature of that show is what led to its cancellation.

I suppose you could call him a liar. I suppose one could ignore Hollywood's liberal nature. I suppose one could say the show just sucked.

Not sure if I buy into that rhetoric, but again, I am not very educated on this subject.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/natalierobe...actresses-2017/

There’s also multiple other list for 2017. If you have a more credible list, I’d love to see it.

So yea, I feel, as well as others, that Tim Allen is slowly getting pushed out by Hollywood.

That and the fact that conservative actors/actresses get vilified when they speak out on certain issues.

You know damn good and well that most conservative people in your line of work (and every other line in the entertainment industry) have to keep their mouths shut about their views until they have enough star power that they don't get pushed out.

I can only think of two other people, (Kelsey Grammar and Patricia Heaton) that have enough juice to be able to speak about their views without losing their jobs.

He is currently filming a sequel for Pixar's cash cow, in which he's probably making eight figures for. He has a film currently in post-production co-starring Vincent D'Onofrio and Jessica Alba. And this is coming off six seasons on a major network sitcom.

How is a man who continues to find steady high-profile work at high rates in Hollywood being pushed out of Hollywood?

Depends on the viewpoint.

I see tv having different influence than movies. I believe tv has more influence on people’s thoughts, values and ideas then the big screen does.

In from that perspective, it makes sense why a lot of people feel he’s being pushed out.

If you’re only looking at it from the big screen viewpoint, then I understand why you don’t understand mine.

I do not know this. I work and have worked with many vocal conservative people. They are all over the industry, in a myriad of roles.

I do know many people who blame their failures on their politics, and sure, if you say something patently stupid like "I don't think gays should get married", you won't win many friends in the business.



Top of my head - Donald Trump, Adam Sandler, Bruce Willis, Stallone, Dennis Miller, Jim Downey, Norm MacDonald, Tom Selleck, Tony Danza, Pat Sajak, Chuck Norris, Dean Cain, Ben Stein, Vince Vaughn, Dennis Franz, James Woods, James Caan, Jon Voight, Jackie Mason, Robert Duvall, Jeff Foxworthy, Tim Allen, Kurt Russell, Joe Pesci, Paul Sorvino, Jim Belushi, Mel Gibson, Adam Corolla, Gary Sinise, Fred Thompson, Andy Garcia, Larry the Cable Guy, Adam Baldwin, Heather Locklear

I'm bored, but I can keep going.