DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum What can the front office do to help?

I think the point you're missing is that winning deals has caused us to lose games. Winning on paper has nothing to do with winning on the field. You can't really brag that you've won anything when you're 0-9.

Because "Never learn from experiences ever" was clearly the intended meaning of that sentence.

Believe it or not, we are allowed to acknowledge the incredible value of our selections in the 2018 draft without dedicating an essay of hatred at the front office. I'm not going to lament missed opportunities of the past every time I mention having two selections in the top five as something that has the potential to add incredible talent to our roster.

I think the real point is that we didn't allow ourselves to get duped into overpaying for a guy that is worse than the guy we did sign... and we didn't lose any extra games because of it.

You can't lose any extra games when you've lost them all.

Point stands.... the move didn't hurt us and we got better production for it.

FO Wins the Deal AND won it on the field, too.

I completely agree. Hoyer was a huge cog in the Garoppolo deal.

j/c

On this take that our front office has to WIN every deal as some suggest, if we end up overpaying for Pryor and he and we still suck, does that mean we LOST the deal, or would we still have been considered to have WON the deal because we got the player?

Did we WIN the Kenny Britt sweepstakes or did we actually LOSE it? And how can you tell?

You make some good points.

No longer have final say on the roster.

I respectfully disagree w/your takes on Pryor and Britt.

You completely ignored what Pryor did in Cleveland. He was clearly our best WR. By a long shot. Bill Belichick admitted to game-planning against him. Bracketed him the entire game.

Pryor had over 1,000 yards in Cleveland. Britt won't come close to that in Cleveland. I think it is wrong to completely throw that data out the window and just use data w/a different team.

And if the FO didn't agree, why did they just try to trade for him?

With a better qb in Washington?



Cause we need a receiver? AND, had it worked, we'd be paying $1.5 for the remainder of the season.

I think he fits Jackson's style of offense much better than Gruden's.

I understand the Front Office's stance on deals and negotiating, but thus far, it seems too rigid. If you ask me if I'd rather have Britt or Pryor, the answer would obviously be Pryor.

So, what you're saying is Pryor took less money, to go to a team as an insurance policy, on a 1 year "prove it" contract?

The spin factor is in FULL effect.

Pryor, and his agent, thought his value was worth more than what the Browns offered before FA hit. He tested the market and didn't find the same value and contract Cleveland offered. He went back to Browns for the contact and Browns said "No, that money went to Kenny Britt."

After that mistake, Pryor was most likely advised to take a one year deal to prove that he is worth #1 WR money for FA 2018. A big risk said by many because if he didn't live up to the one year he had in Cleveland, he'll most likely never see that guaranteed money again.

Preserving his body for the next team after a poor performance in 2017? Get real.

Yikes.

I bet your favorite band is the spin doctors.

Would these be the same teams that were clamoring over TP with mega-contracts to get him to sign?

Oh wait....

Couldn't help it.....looking at some Pryor comments of mine, I came across this response when I suggested having all these receivers (especially Crowder, Reed, and Doctson) in Washington many be an issue for Pryor in getting as many looks/touches as he did here.




Well said. Well said, indeed.

I agree with this, but I think it goes deeper.

This is the exact same situation that was reported with Mitchell Schwartz. He turned down the Browns offer thinking he could get more on the open market, when he realized the Browns offered him a more than fair offer he returned. Browns said he wanted to set the market, so now offers would reflect the market. Offered him a larger contract than the Chiefs did, but smaller than the original offer, so he walked.

I think that is fantastic thing for the Browns to do. You can't turn down a contract, demanding to play the market, but then expect the Browns to not also play the market.

In both instances the Browns have offered deals that are not only fair, but more than any other team was willing to pay. In both instances, the players didn't want the deal because they wanted a free market, but suddenly that is a negative when the Browns do exactly what the player wanted.

It is worth mention, there is absolutely nothing that suggests the Browns original multi-year deal was off the table. The Browns paying Britt does not mean Pryor couldn't also get paid. The rumoured missed call of "Welcome back to Cleveland" suggests the Browns were indeed willing to retain him.

Sure, our receivers suck, but our front office offered Pryor a multi-year deal that literally no other team was willing to match. What more can we ask of them? It isn't their fault Pryor rejected a more-than-fair deal.

After hearing about this move I'd bet that if this FO/Coaching stays somewhat intact, we'll try to sign him again in the offseason. I'd be fine with that.

Exactly. I essentially said the same thing a few months ago when discussing both Prypr and Schwartz:



Where we might differ is if the deal remains after you check out the market. I believe the deal wasn't remaining for Pryor, just like it didn't remain for Schwartz. Reason-- they don't want to be someone else's bitch when it comes to negotiations. Does it suck short-term and seem very narrow minded...sure, I think that argument can be made. I'd submit, if a FO is left to their own devices longer than 2 years, it might be able to established a persona that (1) Don't try to play us, and (2) We clearly don't play you when we offer the best deal you can get on the market if we want you to stay.

Not sure, if after this season, that approach will be able to see itself through.

Did anyone see Albert Breer on The Herd when the Manning rumours started up? Breer reported he is hearing that Haslam is dedicated to giving this group "Three or four years to build it up." That Manning's dream role is working just as Elway does; an intermediate role between coaches and scouts.

That would explain the Singletary interview as a reason for why he was apparently being interviewed on football philosophy rather than his actual coaching principles. There is also a twitter rumour going around (Nobody of importance) that Manning recently purchased a property in one of Cleveland's most affluent suburbs, where Haslam and Tristan Thompson both own property.

It's starting to make sense. Haslam gets his much-wanted continuity, frustrated people feel like the Browns are making big changes, and Manning gets a role that isn't as high-pressure as GM or coaching but does allow him to immerse himself in football.

https://twitter.com/TheHerd/status/925797473758584833

You completely ignore what Britt did for the Rams the year before coming to Cleveland.... he had nearly exactly identical numbers to Pryor in 2016.
I think that it is wrong for you to completely ignore that they really are proving more and more to be the same receiver.

Doctson wasn't dealing an achilles injury..he was dealing with two achilles injuries.

The Redskins opted for an attempt at therapy instead of surgery and Doctson had no scheduled return date as the Redskins took a go slow approach with their 2016 first round pick.

Well here, memp, you read it for yourself...



Redskins’ Josh Doctson back after Achilles tendon injuries

By STEPHEN WHYNO - Associated Press
Wednesday, May 31, 2017
link

ASHBURN, Va. (AP) - Josh Doctson is confident his Achilles tendons are strong enough to carry the weight of his own expectations.

The Washington Redskins’ first-round pick a year ago missed all of training camp and all but two games in his rookie season because of injuries to the Achilles tendon in each heel. The TCU product has declared himself 100 percent healthy during offseason organized team activities. That’s good news for the Redskins, who are going to need his production.

With DeSean Jackson and Pierre Garcon departed via free agency, Washington is counting on Doctson to be a big part of the receiving corps along with newly-signed Terrelle Pryor.

“I got drafted pretty high, so I was ready to get out here and show my teammates and coaches and everybody I am what they drafted,” said Doctson, who was picked 22nd overall in 2016.

“It sucked to not be out there. But this year it’s going to be different.”

During his lost rookie year, Doctson watched Jackson and especially Garcon, hoping the visuals of their routes makes up for his lack of practice and game snaps. All Doctson could do was watch as he dealt with “the most unique injury” he has dealt with in his career.

When compensation for the left Achilles tendon injury caused him to injure his other one, Doctson’s season ended after two catches in two games for 66 yards. The use of underwater therapy, resistance bands and other exercises to keep weight off his feet while strengthening at the same time allowed the 24-year-old to begin running again in March.

Along the way, Doctson set the goal of getting completely healthy and had to at times be held back and protected from his own desire to do too much too fast.

“I was just taking it slow, baby steps,” said Doctson, who was held out of team drills Wednesday with coach Jay Gruden saying it’s not related to Achilles tendon issues. “There was days I came out here and I would tell the strength coaches, ‘Hey I want to get out here and run,’ and those guys were telling me, ‘No, just wait, there’s no rush.’ Even during OTAs I’m just full speed but I’m also maintaining at the same time. You don’t want to do too much because it’s my second year so I know training camp is when I need to be ready to go.”

Doctson was injured during offseason camps last year, so there’s no such thing as an approach that’s too cautious this time. Gruden said Doctson had a great workout Tuesday and last week raved about the young receiver’s impressive progress.

“The big thing for him is the confidence in his Achilles, and I think he’s got that right now,” Gruden said. “It looks like he can run down the field. … If he does have soreness, we have got to taper off for him, but right now, so far, so good. I like the way he looks, like the way he runs and love the way he catches.”

Those things are still a work in progress for Doctson, who had to get his whole body back into alignment after the injury. Doctson started developing chemistry with quarterback Kirk Cousins during some informal workouts with other receivers in Tampa in late March but is spending his time on the field now attempting to recapture his rhythm.

“I was just making sure my technique is right,” Doctson said. “You don’t always get the ball, so I’m just making sure I’m running good routes and my body position and all that and I’m just making plays.”

NOTES: TE Jordan Reed, LT Trent Williams and RB Matt Jones did not participate for the second consecutive week. Gruden said Reed and Williams continue to work out elsewhere while Jones, who has been passed on the depth chart by Rob Kelley and others, chose not to attend the voluntary workouts.




Why some of our, "fans", feel a need to hate on x-Browns who busted their ass for the Browns while here, I'll never figure out...

I think people are hating on your logic & spinning moreso than Pryor.

Perhaps. And we'll get him for pennies on the dollar (if we want him) because of he and his agent's decision to risk a one-year prove it deal. IMO.

Britt had been in the league at the receiver position for a much longer time and has shown to be a disappointment on previous occasions who has his head in the wrong places, lacks motivation, and is a bad influence.

Pryor was in his first full season as a WR when he was with us last year.

How many of Pryor contract escalators has he hit or still has a chance of reaching?

Anyway, let’s take a look at the contract that Pryor did end up receiving with the Redskins:

Base Salary: $3 million
Signing Bonus: $3 million
Possible Incentives: $2 million

It’s a 1-year, $6 million deal that is guaranteed. The interesting part of the deal involves the incentives, which we can dig deeper in to thanks to Pro Football Talk:

There are three separate incentives that Pryor can reach, each of which has different levels, with a maximum incentive of $2 million.

Receptions: This is the most attainable incentive, worth up to $1 million. He will get $250,000 for 60 catches, $600,000 for 70 catches, and the full $1 million for 80 catches or more. So, if it’s late in the season or if he’s dealing with a nagging injury, you can understand why he’d be motivated to still gut things out.
Receiving Yards: He will get $150,000 for 750 yards, $300,000 for 1,000 yards, and $500,000 for 1,250 yards.
Touchdowns: He will get $100,000 for 6 TDs, $300,000 for 8 TDs, and $500,000 for 10 TDs.

To summarize, in order to get the full $2 million in incentives, he needs to have an 80-catch, 1,250-yard, 10-touchdown season. If he does that, he’s definitely getting paid next year too.

#11
Terrelle Pryor Sr.
Rec Yards TD
20 240 1

ouch.

what week are we in, again?

doesn't look like he'l be hitting anywhere close to those numbers.

Trying to remember back to the conversations we were having when Pryor left, there are a couple things that are now getting twisted up.

The change in QB situation was supposed to help Pryor set himself up for a big FA payday next year. Their QB situation is much better than ours, and this is a simple, obvious fact.

A little more complicated is the receiver situation. Redskins also have more passcatching talent than we do, and it's similarly not a close comparison. Now, I understand how someone would make the argument that having other talented receivers would take some pressure/attention off of Pryor, allowing him to go against less coverage/double-teams, but I think this line of thinking is wrong. Pryor, in order to achieve the numbers he did last year, was thrown to A LOT. Compared to the people that put up similar yardage/production as him, he was thrown to much more. To me, that means having other pass-catching options on his new team was going to work against him, not for him.

STRONGSVILLE

j/k-- Haslems reside in Bratenahl when they're in town, to my knowledge but I still couldn't help myself.

Nobody's hating on Pryor the player. That's what you don't get.

Pryor and his agent - according to YOU - signed a 1 year "prove it" deal, for less money than the Browns would've paid per year - so he could go to a team as an "insurance policy?"

That literally makes no sense in anyone's world other than yours.

I am not completely ignoring what Britt did in LA. I was simply saying that I don't think it's fair to believe that Pryor would have the same numbers here that he does in Washington.

The Front Office and Hue make each other look bad. Bad marriage. Fire them all. It would be very bad news if these clowns got to screw up another draft. Don't do that to the City and the great fans again Jimmy!