To try and get a boxing discussion going, I'm posting historical rankings from Boxing.com, Ring Magazine, ESPN, and boxing historian, Bert Sugar. There's a lot of agreement, as well as some very controversial rankings. See what you think ...
Boxing.com top 100
01 - Sam Langford 02 - Harry Greb 03 - Sugar Ray Robinson 04 - Henry Armstrong 05 - Ezzard Charles 06 - Bob Fitzsimmons 07 - Muhammad Ali 08 - Joe Gans 09 - Joe Louis 10 - Roberto Duran. 11 - Benny Leonard 12 - Mickey Walker 13 - Willie Pep 14 - Barney Ross 15 - Archie Moore 16 - Ray Leonard 17 - George Dixon 18 - Terry McGovern 19 - Packey McFarland 20 - Pernell Whitaker 21 - Tony Canzoneri 22 - Jimmy McLarnin 23 - Sandy Saddler 24 - Stanley Ketchel 25 - Charley Burley 26 - Holman Williams 27 - Billy Conn 28 - Gene Tunney 29 - Roy Jones 30 - Joe Walcott 31 - Carlos Monzon 32 - Jimmy Wilde 33 - Eder Jofre 34 - Marvin Hagler 35 - Julio Cesar Chavez 36 - Tommy Gibbons 37 - Kid Gavilan 38 - Jack Britton 39 - Emile Griffith 40 - Jose Napoles 41 - Alexis Arguello 42 - Michael Spinks 43 - Tommy Loughran 44 - Thomas Hearns 45 - Jimmy Bivins 46 - Ike Williams 47 - Floyd Mayweather 48 - Manny Pacquiao 49 - Tommy Ryan 50 - Jack Dillon 51 - Bernard Hopkins 52 - Carlos Ortiz 53 - Fighting Harada 54 - Ruben Olivares 55 – Evander Holyfield 56 - Young Corbett III 57 - Mike Gibbons 58 – Ted Kid Lewis 59 - Freddie Welsh 60 - Freddie Steele 61 - Lou Ambers 62 - Salvador Sanchez 63 - Wilfredo Gomez 64 - Vicente Saldivar 65 - Rocky Marciano 66 - Abe Attell 67 - Manuel Ortiz 68 - Harold Johnson 69 - Dick Tiger 70 - Luis Manuel Rodriguez 71 - Carmen Basilio 72 - Carlos Zarate 73 - Miguel Canto 74 - Oscar De La Hoya 75 - Azumah Nelson 76 - Mike McCallum 77 - Lary Holmes 78 - Bob Foster 79 - Teddy Yarosz 80 - Jim Driscoll 81 - Panama Al Brown 82 - Pascual Perez 83 - Lloyd Marshall 84 – Jake LaMotta 85 - Juan Manuel Marquez 86 – Wilfred Benitez 87 – Nonpareil Jack Dempsey 88 – Erik Morales 89 – Marco Antonio Barrera 90 - Young Griffo 91 - Fritzie Zivic 92 - Joe Frazier 93 - Pete Herman 94 - Lennox Lewis 95 - Jack “Kid” Berg 96 - Philadelphia Jack O’Brien 97 - James Toney 98 - Nicolino Locche 99 - Jung Koo Chang 100-George Foreman
1. Sugar Ray Robinson 2. Henry Armstrong 3. Muhammad Ali 4. Joe Louis 5. Roberto Duran 6. Willie Pep 7. Harry Greb 8. Benny Leonard 9. Sugar Ray Leonard 10. Pernell Whitaker 11. Carlos Monzon 12. Rocky Marciano 13. Ezzard Charles 14. Archie Moore 15. Sandy Saddler 16. Jack Dempsey 17. Marvin Hagler 18. Julio Cesar Chavez 19. Eder Jofre 20. Alexis Arguello 21. Barney Ross 22. Evander Holyfield 23. Ike Williams 24. Salvador Sanchez 25. George Foreman 26. Kid Gavilian 27. Larry Holmes 28. Mickey Walker 29. Ruben Olivares 30. Gene Tunney 31. Dick Tiger 32. Fighting Harada 33. Emile Griffith 34. Tony Canzoneri 35. Aaron Pryor 36. Pascual Perez 37. Miguel Canto 38. Manuel Ortiz 39. Charley Burley 40. Carmen Basilio 41. Michael Spinks 42. Joe Frazier 43. Khaosai Galaxy 44. Roy Jones Jr. 45. Tiger Flowers 46. Panama Al Brown 47. Kid Chocolate 48. Joe Brown 49. Tommy Loughran 50. Bernard Hopkins 51. Felix Trinidad 52. Jake LaMotta 53. Lennox Lewis 54. Wilfredo Gomez 55. Bob Foster 56. Jose Napoles 57. Billy Conn 58. Jimmy McLarnin 59. Pancho Villa 60. Carlos Ortiz 61. Bob Montgomery 62. Freddie Miller 63. Benny Lynch 64. Beau Jack 65. Azumah Nelson 66. Eusebio Pedroza 67. Thomas Hearns 68. Wilfred Benitez 69. Antonio Cervantes 70. Ricardo Lopez 71. Sonny Liston 72. Mike Tyson 73. Vicente Saldivar 74. Gene Fullmer 75. Oscar De La Hoya 76. Carlos Zarate 77. Marcel Cerdan 78. Flash Elorde 79. Mike McCallum 80. Harold Johnson
1. Sugar Ray Robinson 2. Muhammad Ali 3. Henry Armstrong 4. Joe Louis 5. Willie Pep 6. Roberto Duran 7. Benny Leonard 8. Jack Johnson 9. Jack Dempsey 10. Sam Langford 11. Joe Gans 12. Sugar Ray Leonard 13. Harry Greb 14. Rocky Marciano 15. Jimmy Wilde 16. Gene Tunney 17. Mickey Walker 18. Archie Moore 19. Stanley Ketchel 20. George Foreman 21. Tony Canzoneri 22. Barney Ross 23. Jimmy McLarnin 24. Julio Cesar Chavez 25. Marcel Cerdan 26. Joe Frazier 27. Ezzard Charles 28. Jake LaMotta 29. Sandy Saddler 30. Terry McGovern 31. Billy Conn 32. Jose Napoles 33. Ruben Olivares 34. Emile Griffith 35. Marvin Hagler 36. Eder Jofre 37. Thomas Hearns 38. Larry Holmes 39. Oscar De La Hoya 40. Evander Holyfield 41. Ted "Kid" Lewis 42. Alexis Arguello 43. Marco Antonio Barrera 44. Pernell Whitaker 45. Carlos Monzon 46. Roy Jones Jr. 47. Bernard Hopkins 48. Floyd Mayweather Jr. 49. Erik Morales 50. Mike Tyson
1. Sugar Ray Robinson 2. Henry Armstrong 3. Wille Pep 4. Joe Louis 5. Harry Greb 6. Benny Leonard 7. Muhammad Ali 8. Roberto Duran 9. Jack Dempsey 10. Jack Johnson 11. Mickey Walker 12. Tony Canzoneri 13. Gene Tunney 14. Rocky Marciano 15. Joe Gans 16. Sam Langford 17. Julio Cesar Chavez 18. Jimmy Wilde 19. Stanley Ketchel 20 Barney Ross 21, Jimmy McLarnin 22. Archie Moore 23. Marcel Cerdan 24. Ezzard Charles 25. Sugar Ray Leonard 26. Joe Walcott (The original) 27. Jake LaMotta 28. Eder Jofre 29. Emile Griffith 30. Terry McGovern 31. George Foreman 32. Johnny Dundee 33. Jose Napoles 34. Pascual Perez 35. Billy Conn 36. Ruben Olivares 37. Joe Frazier 38. Tommy Loughran 39. Sandy Saddler 40. Kid Chocolate 41. Abe Attell 42. Evander Holyfield 43. George Dixon 44. Maxie Rosenbloom 45. Larry Holmes 46. Ted "Kid" Lewis 47. Marvin Hagler 48. Pernell Whitaker 49. Carlos Zarate 50. Thomas Hearns 51. Battling Nelson 52. Beau Jack 53. Ricardo ;Lopez 54. John L. Sullivan 55. Carlos Monzon 56. Alexis Arguello 57. Carmen Basillio 58. Pete Herman 59. Charley Burley 60. Ike Williams 61. Kid Gavilan 62. Jack Britton 63. Dick Tiger 64. Pancho Villa 65. Panama Al Brown 66. Bob Fitszimmons 67. Philadelphia Jack O'Brien 68. Tiger Flowers 69. James J.Corbett 70. Tony Zale 71. Tommy Ryan 72. Georges Carpentier 73, Sonny Liston 74. "Kid" McCoy 75. Bob Foster 76. Freddie Welsh 77. Joe Jeanette 78. Jim Driscoll 79. Jersey Joe Walcott 80. Peter Jackson 81. Ad Wolgast 82. Jack Dempsey (The Nonpareil) 83. Manuel Ortiz 84. James J. Jeffries 85. Salvador Sanchez 86. Jimmy Barry 87. Carlos Ortiz 88. Roy Jones Jr. 89. Wilfredo Gomez 90. Aaron Pryor 91. Bernard Hopkins 92. Mike Gibbons 93. Jack Delaney 94. Johnny Kilbane 95. Willie Ritchie 96. Wilfredo Benitez 97. Packey McFarland 98. Rocky Graziano 99. Lew Jenkins 100. Mike Tyson
I guess I'll start with my Heavyweights. (I need to think about the others.)
1. Joe Louis 2. Muhammad Ali 3. Rocky Marciano 4. Larry Holmes 5. Mike Tyson
There was a time when I might have put Tyson first. I thought he was invincible, but the celebrity life caught up with him and ruined him, imo. I try to imagine a fight between Tyson and the other 4 on my list. I think Holmes in his prime might be the only one who could stop Tyson from swarming inside. Holmes had the best left jab I ever saw. It wasn't just a tippy-tap, timing mechanism like it seems to be for a lot of fighters. Larry's jab was a heavy, thumping punch that snapped guys' heads back. Louis might have just dropped Tyson with that paralyzing right hand. Its amazing to watch video of Joe Louis and seeing his opponents legs crumble when he connected with the right. Marciano vs Tyson is a fight I'd pay to see; they would pound the schnikees out of each other, but I think Marciano might have had the stronger chin. Buster Douglas exposed Tyson's lesser ability to take a punch. I think Tyson's style might have given Ali some trouble - Ali didn't like in-fighting, preferring to punch from a distance and to stay clear. Ali had a good jab too , but not in Holmes' class. and I'm not sure he could have kept Mike off of him. I suppose some might read that and wonder why I have Ali 2nd on my list. Its based on the totality of his career, and the fact that IMO, he was nearly the complete package as a boxer. The only thing he lacked was the drop dead KO power of Louis, Marciano, and Tyson. Anyway, its JMO, and like I said, I'm no expert.
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Jeudy is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Tillman is flanked out wide to the right. Judkins and Ford are split in the backfield as Flacco takes the snap ... Here we go."
One other thing ... this thread can take on any format you guys want to post it in. Don't feel like you have to stick to my rules. If you just want to talk about one guy, or one bout, its all good. All comments, videos, articles ... whatever you feel like posting is welcome.
Every time I hear or read his name I think of the barbershop scene in "Coming to America", LOL.
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Jeudy is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Tillman is flanked out wide to the right. Judkins and Ford are split in the backfield as Flacco takes the snap ... Here we go."
Nice thread, Dave. I can't comment or rank all the fighters of all-time because it is too overwhelming. I would like comment on one fighter at a time, if that is okay.
I am not talking about them in how I order them. Just talking............if you know what I mean?
The first dude I wanna talk about is Larry Holmes. You mentioned him and his left jab. How astute!!! What a great comment. That tells me you get boxing.
I loved Holmes for a lot of reasons, but I loved him most for his left jab. I used to kill people w/my left jab and Holmes did, too. There is an art to throwing a powerful punch. It comes from your traps and not how long the punch is. Holmes had the best left jab I ever witnessed.
Larry Holmes had the misfortune to follow Ali. Dude had a lisp. Ali was the king of talking. Bad for Holmes. And I ain't knocking Ali, because I loved that dude and will talk about him later, but damn, it used to break my heart to hear how people dissed Holmes for his speech impediment. Those were in the days before it wasn't politically correct to diss such things.
I think Holmes had the ability to fight through adversity and weather the storm. I also think he had some compassion and would often look to the ref to stop the fight when he knew the dude was history. Larry Holmes was a true champion.
About his boxing:
Holmes was tall. Had a huge reach. Had great feet and fought on the balls of his feet. Had huge traps and like you said..........his left jab was awesome. I saw Holmes knock dudes out w/that jab.
My criticism of him was his defense. He took some big shots. Dude weathered most of them and had stones that needed wheel barrows to carry them.
In their prime? Mike Tyson would destroy any of them. Best ever.
Come on. Look at the lists in the opening post above, he's not on one, 50 and 72 on another and then finishes at 100 on the last. That's like arguing Bernie Kosar was the best QB of all time when everyone else has him at 64.
Intimidating, sure. Popular, of course. How did he stand up to the best boxers of his generation, awful.
- Lost to Holyfield - DQ'd to Holyfield (he knew he couldn't beat him so he did what he did to stop the fight) - Lost to Lewis
How could he destroy all of them on the list if he couldn't beat the two best fighters he faced?
And don't say he lost too much of his prime in prison. That's not a reason to raise his ranking up. I don't know if he did it, but the jury didn't take too long to decide. That's on him for putting himself in the situation and his lawyer for being dumb. Plus, we don't know what would have happened had the case been thrown out. We can only debate what did happen.
When I look at Mike Tyson, I see John Daly. Made bad decisions that cost them their legacy, which could have been great.
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
Tyson had the misfortune of reigning in a time whene the division was bereft of talent . A young Tyson was a magnificent beast to watch . A wrecking ball with only one goal which was to separate his opponents from consciousness .
Measure the career and it was average but anyone who watched him fight in his early 20's ? I always hated promoters for not making the Holyfield fight when it SHOULD have happened .
One fight , or rather a trilogy was Gatti vs Ward . OMG throw style and talent out the window those two got in a phone booth and let it fly . Straight out of a Hollywood movie .
Just like judging a fight, ranking boxers is a subjective thing. So I’ll just bring up my favorite fight, Leonard / Hearns 1. That was a fight for the ages.
Tyson had the misfortune of reigning in a time whene the division was bereft of talent . A young Tyson was a magnificent beast to watch . A wrecking ball with only one goal which was to separate his opponents from consciousness .
Measure the career and it was average but anyone who watched him fight in his early 20's ? I always hated promoters for not making the Holyfield fight when it SHOULD have happened .
G’day Ire
I remember you were very much a prevalent poster on the noble art threads in days of yore. The statement you made on promoters not making a fight pretty much summed up all that was wrong with boxing. Probably opened the door to UFC to some degree.
Lennox Lewis made a few of these lists above. Another boxer who caught folks at a downswing of their careers (Tyson) or who didn’t get to fight guys in their prime due to aforementioned politics within the different ununified belts (Bowe and his trashcan antics) I guess it ain’t his fault you can only fight who’s put in front of you at the end of the day and a few bouts that should’ve happened either didn’t or came too late.
Don’t understand why Joe Calzaghe didn’t make a single list. Dude had a phenomenal career as a champion. Stacks up against most anyone and beat a few of the dudes listed above before retiring unbeaten.
Regarding Holmes. You can only fight the guys in your time. During his reign as the heavyweight champion Holmes fought every guy out there. He not only beat everyone but he rarely lost a round.
One the classics was Holmes vs the Acorn (Ernie Shavers). Holmes got off the floor to win that fight. Unreal that he got up from a Ernie Shavers right hand.
Hard to forecast how fights would turn out against guys from different era's. Holmes vs Marciano. etc.
Holmes was a complete fighter. He had a great chin. Dominate left jab. Great right cross. Very good combination fighter and counter puncher. He didn't have that one punch knockout ability he just TKO'd guys with combinations.
One of my favorite fights was when he beat up a overrated Gerry Cooney.
Since the title of this thread is Greatest fighters of all time.
Most have Sugar Ray Robinson at the top.
For most out there he was before your time. If you are boxing fan and have not seen Ray Robinson do yourself a favor You Tube him.
He was unreal. Phenomenal boxer. Dancers legs. He inspired Ali. But on top a being a boxer he had the power to take you out with either hand. His combinations were a thing of beauty.
In addition he could figure guys out. He knew how to break a guy down and get to him. He was also tough as nails.
You had to be in the era he fought. 15 rounds is a big difference than 12. Plus those guys fought like every month. They also fought against top competition. Look at his record of championship fights.
He is a guy who could have fought in any era. His skills are universal in boxing.
Here is a cool Tyson, Ali, Holmes story if you never heard it before..
___
Mike Tyson Avenged Ali’s Loss to Larry Holmes
When Ali lost his final fight to Larry Holmes in 1980, a young Mike Tyson was watching on TV with his trainer, Cus D’Amato. Tyson stated;
“I was offended by how bad he beat up Ali……we were all so upset. The next morning, Cus was on the phone with Muhammad Ali after taking this shellacking from Holmes. He said to Ali, ‘I have this young black kid who is going to be heavyweight champion someday and I want you to talk to him.’”
When he got on the phone, the 14 year old future champ told his idol, “When I grow up, I'll fight Holmes and I'll get him back for you,” a promise that Tyson duly kept.
Seven years later Tyson, now the undisputed heavyweight champion, met Holmes in the ring. Ali was a guest at the fight and when he entered the ring before the first bell to shake the fighter’s hands, he whispered to Tyson, “Remember what you said – get him for me”. Holmes was demolished in the fight that ensued and was knocked out in the fourth round after a vicious array of right hooks.
The impact of Muhammad Ali’s career on Larry Holmes cannot be overstated. Ali served as Holmes’ idol, mentor, sparring partner, and eventual opponent. Throughout Holmes’ illustrious career, which includes 7½ years atop the heavyweight division, along with 20 consecutive title defenses without a defeat, he owes much of that success to Ali.
Holmes, 66, explains that before becoming a fighter, he admired Ali for the way he carried himself. “I liked Ali growing up. I liked the (stuff) he talked. I liked Ali because he was always talking, getting under people’s skin,” said Holmes.
Ali saw Holmes fight as an amateur and invited Holmes to training camp in Deer Lake, PA. Holmes knew the experience of sparring with the legendary Ali would be invaluable “Who do you go to but the best? For a whole year, I worked for Muhammad Ali with no pay.” Holmes continues, “When he started paying me, I got $500 a week. This gave me a home, somewhere to train with the best.”
During training camp, Ali taught Holmes lessons both inside and outside of the ring. Holmes spent years learning from his idol before fully going out on his own. “Ali was one of my best friends. He took me places. He did things with me and for me. He would try and hit me and hurt me in the ring for respect. I had a lot of respect from him. I was (like) his main sparring partner. Whenever, he wanted to work really hard, he would call me,” remarked Holmes.
In fact, Holmes worked as a sparring partner with Ali from 1972 to 1975. Up until Ali’s successful WBA and WBC heavyweight title defense against Chuck Wepner in 1975, they were together. That’s when Holmes decided he had to go out on his own to move his career to the next level. He felt he would never be a world champion with his primary focus on being Ali’s sparring partner.
When the Holmes-Ali fight was announced, this made for an uncomfortable situation for Holmes. “I told him (Ali) he was done before he stepped in the ring. In promotion, Ali said he was going to kick my ass. I said OK, fine. I went along with it. I never go 100% on a guy when I know he is hurt. Ali was hurt, ” said Ali. Holmes went on to win and retain his WBC heavyweight title after Ali’s corner threw in the town after the 10th round.
Holmes was born in Cuthbert, Georgia and moved to Easton, PA when he was five. Boxing was introduced to Holmes at an early age after getting in trouble at school. “I dropped out of school in the seventh grade. Teachers told me if you don’t quit we’re going to throw you out. I was big for my age, played football, and was popular with the girls. I got into teacher’s fights. I wouldn’t let them beat me up. A lot of the white girls and black girls liked me. I liked the white girls. I told the black girls to go to hell.” Holmes continues, “I was walking up the steps and I hit one of them on the butt and she stabbed me eight or nine times with a pencil. The teacher’s came in and told me to go home. That was it. I was out.”
Holmes’ motivation in the sport of boxing was never about inflicting pain or humiliating opponents. It was something he felt he would be good at and a way to make a living. “I prayed for everybody that I fought against. I never wanted to kill anyone. I prayed for me and my health. I was always excited about the opportunity to fight. I was scared. I was always scared before a fight,” said Holmes.
Holmes’ happiest moment in the sport was winning the WBC heavyweight title from Ken Norton by 15 round split decision. The classic fight between the two warriors was the clear highpoint of Holmes’ career. “When I won the title a lot of people said I would never be heavyweight champion of the world. I won the title and celebrated being heavyweight champion of the world. They said you can’t make it, Larry. That’s one of the reasons why I wanted to be champion. I stayed champion for 7½ years. I stayed there. I fought everybody. I would fight every week if I could,” stated Holmes.
During the highly competitive Norton fight, both fighters had to dig deep in the championship rounds. Holmes found a unique way during the final rounds against the slightly favored Norton and throughout his career to find extra energy. “I would say to myself c’mon body don’t fail me now. Especially when you’re tired, I would sing a song in my head 10 more miles, five more miles, one more mile. When there’s one more round it really seemed to help me out. Something in my mind said body don’t fail me now,” said Holmes.
Holmes has positive recollections about his 1981 title defense against Renaldo Snipes. Holmes, who was leading on all scorecards, suffered a knockdown in the seventh round. Snipes caught Holmes with a right hand early in the seventh to score the knockdown and Holmes fought back aggressively to make it the best round of the fight. The champion, who retained his WBC heavyweight title, eventually won by 11th round TKO.
“It was a knockdown. I was hurt. He knocked the crap out of me. He hit me real good. I was beating him up and I dropped back with my hands down and he hit me-Bam! I went down to the floor. I found myself crawling up, pulling myself up by the ropes.” Holmes admits, “I looked over and he was dancing and smiling and I said I can’t let this guy get me. I recover pretty good. When Snipes hit me, I didn’t see it. When you get hit, you hear something go bang and a noise goes off in your head.”
The hardest puncher that Holmes said he ever faced was Earnie Shavers. Just as he had done during the Snipes bout, Holmes recovered from a knockdown to win. Holmes won a lopsided decision over Shavers in 1978, but in the rematch Holmes was caught with a hard right hand that knocked him down late in round seven. Holmes was hurt, but Shavers only had seconds to follow up before the end of the round. Holmes went on to win by 11th round TKO to retain his WBC heavyweight crown.
Holmes, who was recently honored with a statue in his adopted hometown of Easton, PA, said that he and Shavers earned each other’s respect and have been life-long friends. “I tell everyone that I have a knot on my head from where he (Shavers) hit me,” said Holmes.
Holmes lists his work ethic as a big reason why he was able to be so successful. When other fighters would be hurt, they would often get stopped. Holmes had the heart, desire, and conditioning to get up from the canvas and come back and win. “I always stayed in shape. Not a lot of other people did. I worked hard,” said Holmes.
The former heavyweight champion talks about one of his most difficult title defenses, his fight against future two-time champion Tim Witherspoon in 1983. “I was fighting everybody. I was just going through the motions and I was getting ready to quit. I fought anybody they put in front of me. I wanted to get the money. I wanted to live happily. I didn’t and don’t owe anyone any money,” said Holmes. Holmes beat Witherspoon by 12 round split decision to retain the WBC heavyweight championship.
Another difficult title defense for Holmes was his fight against Carl “The Truth” Williams. Holmes won the highly contested bout by 15 round unanimous decision to retain the IBF heavyweight title. The champ lists the late Williams as the best pure boxer that he ever fought. “He boxed. Everything I did, he did. He was the man. It was a hard fight for me. This guy was knocking the (stuff) out of me. I asked him, did he copy off me? He said he copied off the best. He said he studied you Larry and wanted to be just like you,” admitted Holmes.
After Holmes’ title reign ended with back to back losses to Michael Spinks, he retired. He did make several comebacks, the first being his challenge to a dominant, in his prime, Iron Mike Tyson. Holmes landed a couple of good combinations in the fourth round, prior to Tyson stopping him in that same round. Tyson retained the undisputed heavyweight title.
“It was time for me to take over (early in the fourth round). I felt like I could get him. I didn’t expect him to hit me. I swear to God if they had given me two more weeks to train, I would have kicked Mike Tyson’s ass. They would have said and new (heavyweight champion of the world). My timing was off. When I brought my hands up to block the punch, I couldn’t bring it up high enough or far enough. Mike had to come up and hit me on top of the head. That’s what gave him the fight,” said Holmes.
Holmes continues to assess why he came up short against Tyson. “Mike didn’t hit as hard as Earnie Shavers. When I took the fight with Tyson, I said I know I can beat him because I know he’s not all there yet. He doesn’t know boxing like I know boxing. Anybody who is 5’10” or 5’11” or 6 feet, I know I can beat them.” Holmes continues, “I was going to whoop him. They are too short. I was going to jab them all day. Their arms are too short. They can’t get inside. I was told different dates for Tyson and it ended up being sooner. Don King said I had until June or July for the fight. Don King lied to me. Of course I took the fight because it was 3½ million dollars. I wasn’t quite ready.”
Perhaps the best compliment to Holmes’ greatness is shared by two of his former opponents. James “Bonecrusher” Smith, who fought and lost to Holmes twice, is quick to point out what set Holmes apart. “Larry was experienced. He was always thinking. He was real good. He had a real strong jab and he was real quick. He crossed that right hand. It was really good. He had all the shots,” said Smith.
Witherspoon is very complimentary about Holmes’ strengths. Among heavyweights, only the great Joe Louis had more consecutive successful title defenses with 25. “Larry had a good jab and right hand. Holmes was the greatest heavyweight champion of that era. He would get off the canvas and knock guys out.” Witherspoon states, “He had great determination. Larry had great heart. Larry and I are good friends.”
Holmes wants people to look back on his career and reflect on what he was able to accomplish both in and out of the ring. “Boxing’s been good to me. I want to be remembered as a good guy. I wanted to have a clean reputation. I don’t want to think I’m better than you or anybody else. They can compare my record with anyone’s record. I may not be the greatest, but I am one of the greatest heavyweights of all-time,” said Holmes.
Larry Holmes fought in a difficult time following one of the greatest fighters this sport has ever seen, Muhammad Ali. However, Holmes’ greatness should stand alone, and his heart and desire should be unquestioned. His skills are among the best the heavyweight division has ever seen. For that, he should always be recognized.
Lot's of good stuff. I actually thought that Holmes took it easy on Ali.
Just so you know, Ali was my favorite fighter of all-time, so I am not biased on this one. But Holmes could have destroyed Ali and he kept backing off. Thought it was classy.
I met Ernie Shavers. Dude was massive. Had the most powerful left hook I ever saw. bonefish is right about people ducking him.
Another cool story......I also met Sammy Angott when he was in his mid to late 50s. We slapped boxed in a restaurant. Even at that age, he was deceptive as can be w/his hands and body movements. What a cool guy. He made me feel important and gave me some pointers and a few compliments on my hand speed.
Man, reading all of these posts makes me long for the good old days when boxing was great. I wish it would come back.
In their prime? Mike Tyson would destroy any of them. Best ever.
Yep, if you took ANY heavyweight, at their absolute best, nobody touches Mike.
Buster Douglas touched him big time, and Mike was only 24 when that happened. He was 30 - still his prime - when Holyfield beat him.
Mike overlooked Buster, didn't do the work beforehand. When Tyson was 30, he WAS past his prime - partly because he had been in prison for two or three years.
In case you haven't guessed already, Larry Holmes was my favorite heavyweight. I wasn't around for Louis or Marciano, and while I liked Ali, I sometimes found him annoying to watch ... the showboating and the way he would turn it on and turn it off during a fight. I didn't really like his constant self-promoting, bragging behavior. Tyson, I thought was Superman, until he showed he wasn't.
In their prime? Mike Tyson would destroy any of them. Best ever.
Yep, if you took ANY heavyweight, at their absolute best, nobody touches Mike.
Buster Douglas touched him big time, and Mike was only 24 when that happened. He was 30 - still his prime - when Holyfield beat him.
Mike overlooked Buster, didn't do the work beforehand. When Tyson was 30, he WAS past his prime - partly because he had been in prison for two or three years.
Not criticizing you...commenting on general thoughts.
See, why does that get said? Isn't it a major strike against a boxer, who some call the greatest of all time, that he didn't train, took a lesser fighter for granted and then got knocked out?
And there it is again, "Mike lost his prime years in prison", which was his own fault. Shouldn't that be another strike against his fighting legacy, he wasn't fighting, but somehow he still earns respect during that time because he was locked up. We don't do that for other sports.
And then, again, got bullied up by Holyfield and Lewis later on. It's like, Tyson gets raised up for fights he never fought because his prime was "taken" from him. But yet, it wasn't, he lost that prime himself.
IMO, he was a media darling, married a celebrity, had a hit video game, had that voice, beat up some decent guys in the beginning, but then fizzled out when he came up against true, big heavyweights. For most of his career he was a side show, a train wreck, beat his wife, raped a girl and ended up being someone that helped ruin the sport of boxing. I just don't see why people honor him. Never will.
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
They never fought so speculation is only our imagination.
But in my opinion Foreman would have knocked Tyson out.
Fights are about style matchups. Foreman was to long for Tyson. His strength would have pushed Tyson back and his reach would have made Tyson a punching bag.
It would have been something to see. Not a fight that would have gone the distance.
In their prime? Mike Tyson would destroy any of them. Best ever.
Yep, if you took ANY heavyweight, at their absolute best, nobody touches Mike.
Buster Douglas touched him big time, and Mike was only 24 when that happened. He was 30 - still his prime - when Holyfield beat him.
and I said at his best, Tysons downfall due to personal life turmoil was in full swing at that time
Another great story that I heard, about Tyson. During the training camp for the Hollyfield fight. Hollyfield's camp would send Tyson 2 full pizzas every night to his hotel room during the last week of his training camps and the rumor is he would eat them, both.
If "styles make fights" I think Holmes in his prime vs Tyson in his prime would have been an incredible fight.
VERS! Holmes beat the crap out of Norton!? That was one of the best fights in Heavyweight history and scored 143-142 across the board! I was a huge fan of Norton at the time and re-watched that fight so many times on VHS... after many viewings I finally understood that round 9 was just to close to score and conceded that Holmes deserved the win lol.
Holmes vs Lennox Lewis would have been another great fight... two best jabs ever in my book. If you fought Holmes for just three rounds - the right side of your face was swollen for three weeks.
Mike Tyson was the most dangerous opponent in the history of boxing. When he trained well and wanted to fight there was no equal, he truly wanted to kill you in the ring. I don't think an opponent ever entered the ring that wasn't scared to death. Tyson was so strung out on coke by the Douglas fight that it was all but over (his career), he didn't even want to fight anymore but was broke from the get because of the vultures he was surrounded by. King, if allowed, would have taken every red cent. I HIGHLY recommend the book, audio book and stage performance of "Mike Tyson: The Undisputed Truth". You'll get a birds-eye view of a career that was all but over before it started.
My favorite fighter ever was Roy Jones Jr. An absolute dichotomy. Unorthodox, punches from every angle, ring antics that are unparalleled and a defense that was 80% fighting with his hands down and chicken necking his head right into your face - daring you to try and hit him. Total demolition of four weight classes over a five year period.
And yes, Shavers was a beast and maybe the best kept secret in boxing history.
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