DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Dropped Passes

Diam asked about tracking dropped passes. I added uncatchable passes. I had a lot of company over and could not track the bad throws.

I asked the company to weigh in on the drops. Here was our consensus.

Louis: 1 drop

Higgens: 1 drop------but the throw was low and it was a tough catch

Coleman: 1 drop

Duke: 1 drop

Very good catches:

Njoku 1 on the sideline.

I wish someone would start that thread.

I had it close to what you had.

I had three drops. One to Louis, which cost us a first down. One on Duke. One on Coleman, which was slightly behind but very catchable.

I'm 'meh' on the drop from Higgins. The coverage was good so Kizer had to put it low. Between the coverage and the low throw, I'm not sure how much I put the drop on Higgins.

Yep, the group was divided on the drop by Higgens. Some said it the pass was too low. Some said that while it was low, he should have still caught it.

PFF gave Duke Johnson two drops, so I'm not sure if I missed something. My stream got a little choppy at times.

Hmmmm.........I don't remember the second. But, there were quite a few people here and there was too much talking. LOL

I wonder if he dropped a screen pass that we missed towards the end?

Duke had two on back-to-back plays.

There were a few legitimate drops, and you are probably right on with the number 3. Kizer was horribly inaccurate today. He had a pass to (the general area code of) Coleman, who was wide, wide open .... that went about a mile over his head. He had a number of really bad passes today.

I don't see how we go into next year with this QB and these WR all unopposed.

I expect a top QB, a RB, a pair of WR, and a pair of CB in free agency and the top 3 rounds of the draft.

some of our drops are so bad that it's comical ... Louis and Higgins each had one yesterday that was about as bad as it gets

Here's what I had:

3:01 in the first q, drop by Lewis.
5:01 in the second q, drop by Higgins - not a great pass, so I can see where some wouldn't count that as a drop.
11:40 3rd q, drop by Johnson - again, not a great pass, but should've been caught.
11:37 3rd q, drop by Johnson
1:48 4th q, drop by Coleman.

I remember two drops from Duke too.

Thanks.

I concure. I remember one glaring drop from Louis early on. I watched the game and maybe there's a drop from Duke, but I don't think the one was thrown very well. A lot of the passes receivers might have had a hand on and I don't believe can be called drops because they were poorly thrown balls.

I personally expect the professionals to make the tough catches. Realistically, drops are a part of the game, but I'm not going to make excuses for them.

Me too. That's why I counted 5 drops - but understand if some would call it only 3.

It seems to me that a lot of people think a professional WR shouldn't be expected to make a catch unless it hits them square in the chest. Hell, I can do that most of the time.

Much like you it seems, I expect a little more.

I somehow missed one of Duke's drops, but he certainly dropped the one I did see. It was kinda funny because I was telling the group [several who were not Brown's fans] that Duke had the best hands on the team and then he dropped an easy one.

The Louis drop was horrible. Coleman's drop was a true drop. The only one that we found debatable was the Higgens drop. It was a low pass. I thought it was a drop but some of the folks said it was a tough catch.

I think what's crazy is that every week we see all these great catches across the NFL. We don't see those here in Cleveland. The only one I thought was close to a great catch was Njoku's.

Kizer has been terrible and is inaccurate, but we do drop too many passes.

I based my "drop/no drop" count on 1 thing: As a high school player would I have considered that play a drop?"

That's how I came up with 5. And that's based on me. And I was not a professional receiver.

As a professional athlete with the technology on their hands in todays gloves, if you get a full hand on the ball and its not caught, that's a drop. Plain and simple.

And yet, I saw so many of our receivers and backs with their gloves not "strapped".

j/c

I think we have a bigger problem with drops and an incredibly inaccurate QB than we have with WRs who cannot get open.

I’m not done yet .. didn’t get home til about 9 last night ... just watched the game ... didn’t track anything .. i was beat ... had relatives in from Georgia today, they just left ...

I am about 1/2 way through the 3rd quarter ... i broke it down into multiple categories ...

Drops 100% on the WR ... like Louis’s first drop ....

Drops that are a combo ... balls that should have been caught but bad throws none the less .. like Higgins 1st drop ... these balls 100% should have been caught .. they were also BAD THROWS ...

Then i did plus throws and uncatchable passes ...

Here’s what i go so far ... i’ll finish up when my nephews are done with the Play Station .. i just got them virtual reality so their getting extra time on it for the next few days ....

Louis in the 1st quarter ( i forgot to time stamp it) ..... 100 % on Lewis ... HORRIBLE and UNACCEPTABLE ... they don’t get much easier than that ... it was truely a short pitch and catch ... u have NO FUTURE in the NFL if u can’t make that catch ...

Higgins at 5:01 of the 2nd quarter ... was a combo .. it was thrown low ... but 100% SHOULD HAVE BEEN CAUGHT ... if i were keeping STATS for a site i would deemed it a drop of an easily catchable ball that was not well thrown ... i would have DINGED then both for that one ...

Duke dropped a screen pass to his right ... was a combo ... Duke should have caught it bit it was thrown behind him ... 100% CATCHABLE but a BAD PASS at the same time .... i would have dinged them both .... i’m going to talk about this play at the end of my post ... so remember it ... *L* ...

Duke dropped a flair out to the the left behind the LOS on the very next pay .. almost like a screen bit with no blockers out in front .. *L* ... this looked to be more a mis-communication to me ... Duke started to flare out to the left and then slowed down as he was getting “close” to the sideline ... the slow down caused the pass to be to far out in front ...

Duke should have caught it but he made it hard on himself .. the others above were all very catchable .. this one .. he should have caught but he made it harder on himself than it should have been ..

I would ding Duke on that one but not Kizer ... like i said .. IMO that appeared to be a “mis-communication” ....

I’ll get to the uncatchable passes and the plus throws after i watch the rest of the game ...

The play above to Duke ... the one i mentioned .. the screen to the right that DK threw behind him but it was still catchable ... that was a catchable pass but VERY VERY INNACURATE ... if he caught that ball where it was thrown .. the DT or DE would have tackled him for a loss because the pass “turned” Duke around almost .. it SLOWED HIM DOWN to catch the pass ..

If DK makes an accurate throw .. Duke has blockers in front and won’t have to BREAK STRIDE and there is no way the DT or DE has a shot at tackling him ... it could have gone for some yards ....

Thats a HUGE PART of ACCURACY that gets overlooked .. and to me its one of the reasons completion % is a BS STAT and is VERY VERY MISLEADING ...

I’ll be back later to finish up ...

So, you saw it how I saw it.

I could, myself, easily say 5 drops. I could also see just 3 drops.

Lewis's drop was at the 3:01 mark of the first.

I give the benefit of doubt.. In baseball it is scored as what would a average player have done? You shouldn't have to make secetacular plays before it called a error. Just because Franco Lindor can make the play doesn't mean' everybody should.


Same with catching a ball in football. It's great if you have a receiver who can catch balls at the shins and slightly behind. The guys who do that possibly make the HOF. The guys who can't shouldn't be called butterfingers and credited with a drop..



Most players don't make the HOF. Most drop those balls.

Roberto Duran is alive and well on our WR roster

Good observations. But, this is a drop thread. I think we all know that Kizer is inaccurate. Well, maybe not all of us will admit it, but there is no doubt he is inaccurate.

But, other than the Higgens pass..........I don't think any of the drops were even questionable. Although I somehow missed one of Duke's drops. That is kinda blowing my mind.

Dropped passes are only a problem when your QB is hitting at a 50% clip and turning the ball over 3:1.

That is a very good point and very true, but the WR's that normally can get away with such drops are usually homerun threats and I don't see any of those on the team.

I've only been to one training camp. Delhomme and Seneca Wallace were our QBs then...not exactly rifle-armed guys. The sound that was made when the ball hit the receivers' hands was incredible...unbelievable actually. I'll never forget that sound.

LOUIS AND NJOKU WERE BOTH KNOWN FOR DROPS IN COLLEGE ... sorry about the caps ...it was a mistake ...

Guess Brett Favre was there college QB ... ...

Your correct .. Kizer does throw a fastball ... so did Brett Favre ... so did a lot of other guys in the NFL ...

U say its not an excuse ... but it sure sounds like your saying its Kizer’s fault they can’t catch because he throws so hard even though they had questionable hands upon arrival ...

Add Britt to that category .. very questionable hands before he came here ...

Did you finish watching the game? If so, how many drops would you say we had in that game?

I think its more or less established that the catching ability is a WR's trait. For sure there is some variance according to the QB, but mostly the WR's retain their ability to catch no matter who is the QB.

The variance of catching % within WRs with the same QB is much higher than the variance for the same WR with different QB's.

Its also a thing that is proven very hard to correct.... so a low catching WR will never improve much...

We for sure have seen that here in Cleveland.

True, but neither did Favre and his WR's managed to adjust. There aren't a lot of excuses if the ball hits your hands in the NFL.

Michael Irvin and TO dropped a whole lot of passes, but everyone overlooked that because they also made the highlight reels enough to keep everyone happy.

Catching the football is very easy to teach. It is all mental. When my youngest brother started playing football, he had hands of lead and I was able to teach him.

Where the skill comes in is having a large catch radius and being physical enough to fight for a catch, but anyone can be taught to catch a ball that hits them in the hands.

Oh, I remember that, .. the first one was low, arrived at him lower than 1/2 way between his knees and shoes, and given body lean / center of gravity, I don't consider it too much of a drop.

A catch takes a catcher And a passer.

People have been saying this thing to me, all my life, and I think it's totally bull.

(Alright I see now that you said "full" hand, so there's a little bit of a pass there.)

People saying that if it hit your hands you should have caught it.

How many times do they go out for a pass, how many times if you are running full speed or leaning toward any given way, does that prevent you from instantly changing your posture to get in front of the ball.

Any time someone want that every ball that hits someones hand must be a catch, THEY COULD, BUT THAT WOULD MEAN YOUR RECEIVER GETS ALIGATOR ARMS AND DOESN'T REACH FOR THE BALL.

If you never reach back for an uncatchable ball, in the small chance you'll be able to catch one of them

You can keep your hands right between your shoulder pads and miss all kinds of passes and then SURE< anything that hits your hands would be a catch.

Those^ kind never make it into the NFL.

Annnddd Ehhh You can't fault, I won't fault receivers sometimes you make a catch and close your hands too soon and or somehow your eyes and hands don't meet and you miss a catch that you could have had.

It happens.
It takes both a QB and a Reciever to make a catch, and I'll add that the more years, the more time the TWO have working together the better off they will be.

#1 Qb, and #1 WR, working together. Pitt, Balt, Cincy, and most NFL teams have more continuity there than the Browns probably do.

I think to determine if the drop is on the receiver we would have to know the designed play.

We have been watching football for years,so we all have a good idea when the ball is a drop.

IMOH, most of the times, when the ball hits the hands of the receiver, its a drop. If it hits both hands, its a drop for sure.

To me it depends on body position. If it is out in front, mnal stretch, if low, the knees