DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus The Nationalist's Delusion (Trump & Racism)

So, as a small town guy (like me) who thinks a handshake is a legit deal and his word means something (not that city folks don't feel that way too, just stay with me here).. you don't blame the banks at all because they saw a loophole in the regulations where they could make a crap load of profit, passing every ounce of risk back to the government, in a system they KNEW was going to eventually implode and they exploited it for as much profit as they could right up until the minute it all came crashing down?

You are ok with that?

It's funny how when you can't refute the facts posted you resort to casting doubt and attacking a persons character. Well, actually it's not so funny.

Traditionally there is usually a crash a few months after the US hits ~4.3% unemployment.

Also, it's funny how Trump used to hate using U3 to calculate unemployment, instead opting for u4 or u5. Now he won't stop bragging about U3. Gotta love a politician.

Surprising.

I would have expected you to go all-in on Old King Coal.

King Coal is already up 18.40% this year. I have skimmed those profits.

Not a bad death for the King, now is it?

Sure.

There were laws and rules in place. Seemed to be working okay - you know, a credit check, a check on employment, history, wages, ability to repay.

And congress changed the rules, and said "not only did we change the rules, we'll back it up with "our" money."

I don't blame the banks. Much.

I did refute the facts. FOR THIS AREA.

I haven't seen any link from anyone that 95% of new jobs are part time gigs.

Places around here are hiring. FULL TIME, with benefits. (that's health insurance, dental insurance to an extent, paid vacation, 401k matches, etc. Full time.

Anywhere from $13 to $30 an hour, overtime if wanted (and sometimes overtime is mandated).

Actually, the banks were encouraged by the government to lend the money.

I guess that's the problem. YOUR AREA has nothing to do with what the nation as a whole is experiencing. I live in the Nashville area. We have excellent job growth. But I don't use it as an argument when people are talking about the nation as a whole.

You tried to do the exact same thing when I talked about the closure of small local hospitals. Ohio expanded medicaid. It made it possible for almost everyone to be insured so the hospitals were paid. States like Tennessee where medicaid was not expanded it simply doesn't work that way.

Maybe if you would stop trying to use your small location as some gauge for the rest of the nation it would help. But you know, us Hollywood types just don't get it.

Jc

Sigh......

Arch, look at this:

Full-time job growth over the course of the Obama presidency has far outstripped part-time job growth, as FiveThirtyEight's Ben Casselman has pointed out.

https://www.npr.org/2017/01/07/508600239/what-kind-of-jobs-president-has-obama-been-in-8-charts

Now the rest of the links:

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/arc...-graphs/283674/

https://amp.cnn.com/money/2016/04/25/news/economy/part-time-jobs/index.html

https://amp.cnn.com/money/2015/06/09/new...blem/index.html

http://money.cnn.com/2016/11/04/news/economy/jobs-under-obama/index.html

http://www.politifact.com/arizona/statem...e-more-part-ti/

_______

Now, you know I credit the job growth and economy to obama. You disagree.

Here’s where we agree: the full time job growth that you see in your area is absolutely what the bulk of America sees.

Full time jobs have been added by a ton under obama era policies.

I’ve been searching for this 95% part time bull crap because we’ve been over this topic over and over again for years.

And I was just waiting for ANYBODY to call PDR out on his horse crap numbers. I’ve seen the claim from websites off of reddit. So maybe that’s where he gets his info.

But I find it hilarious that people will fact check you, but won’t fact check PDR.

I’ve explained to this board before, obama has added plenty of full time jobs. It’s just not in the typical industries that people are accustomed to pre-recession, and that’s just straight up facts.

Healthcare, technology, and other industries have seen job and wage growth out the ass. Fossil fuel and manufacturing industries have not.

And that’s always been the problem. Obama added jobs, just not the KIND of jobs people want. The jobs created are jobs that require education. People want “shovel ready” jobs.

Which is funny because right here in Painesville, there are a ton of full time gigs... my bad, “shovel ready” jobs in shops just like in your area. Yet for some reason, they can’t find people willing to do the work.

Not only did I do article research. I hopped my ass right on monster jobs. I looked st usajobs.gov, and sure enough, there are millions upon millions of full time job openings literally everywhere.

Just need to have that education or work experience.

So I know we disagree on who gets the credit, but the 95% part time rhetoric is nothing more that false rhetoric for somebody who seems to sensationalize a lot of “facts” around here.

It’s getting annoying.

You make me laugh.

Hey, did you read Swish's post yet?

Apparently things aren't quite like you and PDF say.

It's not just here, bud. It's everywhere. Full time, decent paying jobs are available.

Sorry to burst your bubble of thinking you got me.

I don't think you even know what you just said.

The only thing I'll disagree with you on is who get's the credit.

See, I don't care who gets the credit.

Bottom line: A good economy is good for me, first and foremost. And a good economy is good for everyone.

Like you said, I haven't seen any links to what someone posted about 95% of new jobs are part time gigs.



As far as what I said about things around here.............people - well, SOME people, need to realize I'm talking about national, and in some cases, multinational companies. You know, producing stuff that isn't just sold here, "in my tiny corner".

Jobs are Booming in my area and they aren't part time gig jobs either.

Careful, or you'll get ridiculed for talking only about your area.

Kinda like pit tried to do to me. And then he turned around and said "his area has seen hospital closings" while the nation hasn't. And he blamed it on medicare or medicaid. Gov't.

Ridicule is my closest friend on here.

Well, they can say what they want about my little area but my little area of the world is our Nations Capital and surroundings.

Millions and Millions of us, from all races and nations can find work and change jobs at the drop of a hat! The only Gig is what the many many bands and entertainers do.

Things are Booming. Tell on one.

I wasn't sure on that percentage either, but it was easy to find a link actually (below). I personally think this is a double time combo of the 39ers (folks who work part time to avoid employer obamacare mandates) as well as increased automation and the tech 'side hustle' gig jobs.

https://www.investing.com/news/economy-n...act-work-449057


Nearly 95% of all new jobs during Obama era were part-time, or contract
EconomyDec 21, 2016 12:23AM ET
10

© Reuters. Decline in standard of living for many. © Reuters. Decline in standard of living for many.

Investing.com -- A new study by economists from Harvard and Princeton indicates that 94% of the 10 million new jobs created during the Obama era were temporary positions.

The study shows that the jobs were temporary, contract positions, or part-time "gig" jobs in a variety of fields.

Female workers suffered most heavily in this economy, as work in traditionally feminine fields, like education and medicine, declined during the era.

The research by economists Lawrence Katz of Harvard University and Alan Krueger at Princeton University shows that the proportion of workers throughout the U.S., during the Obama era, who were working in these kinds of temporary jobs, increased from 10.7% of the population to 15.8%.

Krueger, a former chairman of the White House Council of Economic Advisers, was surprised by the finding.

The disappearance of conventional full-time work, 9 a.m. to 5 p.m. work, has hit every demographic. “Workers seeking full-time, steady work have lost,” said Krueger.

Under Obama, 1 million fewer workers, overall, are working than before the beginning of the Great Recession.

The outgoing president believes his administration was a net positive for workers, however.

"Since I signed Obamacare into law (in 2010), our businesses have added more than 15 million new jobs," said Obama, during his farewell press conference last Friday, covered by Investing.com.

This is why I said credible.

Did you read when the studies were done?

Between 1995-2005, then 2005-2015.

Not only did it not cover the numbers based on presidency, which is what the argument is all about to begin with, but but did not define the same unemployment numbers as the government does.

This is why I sent an entire list of the actual numbers, something I can now safely assume you didn’t read at all.

You clicked the first link you could without doing any further research. Come on man.

archbolddawg wanted a link and I gave him a link. I could have trolled harder and used lmgtfy.com but decided not to do so

I screwed up when I said 39er, meant 29er, as in employees being scheduled 29 hours or less to avoid the obamacare mandates on health insurance for full time employees.

I don't agree with the study in saying it's all Obamas fault, as I don't think that's the case. Whether one agrees with the study or not, I have big reservations on turning large members of the workforce into a contractor (which is what favor/uber/lyft/airbnb do) because most employee perks as written by law apply to W2 wage employees, not 1099 wage employees.

Thanks for the link. That's neat and all.

Ain't reality around here.

But, that's just my, according to the experts, just my little corner of a small state.

Yes, things are apparently terrible. And, God forbid someone wanting to work 40 hours a week would have to pass a drug test. I mean, there's no liability involved there, right?

I guess the rest of the country is screwed?


Sorry man, I don't care who gets credit for the jump in full time jobs.

Full time jobs are just that - full time. And if they're hiring around here, they're hiring everywhere. Trust me, the stuff made locally isn't being sold locally - it's being sold nationwide.

Again - full time jobs, with benefits.

And really, your uber and lyft thing is dumb. Those aren't full time jobs. They weren't meant to be, and they aren't.

You can drop the small town crap whenever you like. I live in a small town in Ohio too. In fact my town has 1k fewer people than archbold. Please don't throw blanket statements at people.

I'm not saying things are terrible. Please quote me where I said that. I really don't appreciate blanket statements, and am not sure why you are making them. And what did I ever say about a drug test being bad????!!?!? Please stop putting words in my mouth...

I also need to ask for a quote where I said Uber was full time. I'm starting to think you didn't respond to me, but at me. And I find it disrespectful. Maybe that's your intent and if so, just let me know.

All I meant on ride share and other gig programs is that they are 1099 not w2 and that brings with it limitations because 1099 work isn't employee work. I am sure you are aware that w2 applies to part time as well as full time employees.

I don't know where I said you said things are terrible.

Drug tests are good. And I think you agree?

You can think I disrespected you. That's your choice, I don't feel I did. If you feel I did, I can't do anything about it.

The rest of your post I just don't get.

Full time employment vs uber or lyft. We all know the difference.

It's not unlike me - self employed. I get health insurance through my wife's full time employment. So does my daughter.

Only costs $400 a month.

Was this directed to someone else then? You replied to me.



An employer should be able to use any and all discretion and tools at their disposal. I am fine with drug testing.

As for the disrespect, it read to me like you were talking about someone else entirely, but you replied to me. So it seemed like you made assumptions and most people would prefer not to have assumptions made of them

gage is one of the most thoughtful and earnest posters in the history of this board as far as I'm concerned.

I can see you coming at me or others...but gage has no agenda outside of sharing his opinion.

Lay off him, it's a bad look.

(Not that you need my defense, gage, but Jesus...)

i think we need to find ways to get people qualified for these high paying jobs that are available.

as i've shown, the full time employment opportunities are there, just require education.

the problem is that education cost keeps rising and rising. while the Trump administration and congress are focused on "america first" policies, whatever that actually means, the reality is that curbing even legal migration in order for companies to lean toward more domestic talent doesn't change that we have a lack of talent and skillsets in our labor force to fill these jobs.

this relates back to the original topic of nationalism, because once again we have a population who isn't really sure what they want.

we have people who want more "shovel ready" jobs even though plenty of full time jobs are out there, just require a degree. so these people don't want to get a degree, don't want to change industry careers, yet then turn around and get upset when migrants come and take high paying tech and medical jobs. they want these companies to hire american first, yet won't take the time to get the education needed for the jobs because they have made it clear they prefer "shovel ready" jobs.

the same people who also blasted obama having the unemployment rate down in the 4's due to "millions who aren't looking for work", are now giving Trump credit for the same unemployment rate in the 4's.....while now ignoring that millions aren't looking for work.

we actually have a labor shortage in this country, so in the current big picture, the unemployment rate being in the 4's isn't actually a good thing. and yet the same people who have these nationalist ideas when it comes to the economy won't enter the workforce because so many of them can't pass a drug test do to opioid, meth, and other addictions, but again, will complain and claim that illegals and other migrants are taking all the jobs.

we have a large part of the population who have confused themselves into thinking what they see is actually what is occurring. we have a population who prefers nationalism over globalization in a GLOBAL economy.

the jobs the people with nationalist views want are jobs that have a high turnover rate, pay like crap, and offer few benefits, and more importantly, will be the first jobs that will be replaced by robots.

yet the jobs with a real future are the jobs people don't want, but then don't want foreigners working either. it's mind boggling the blatant hypocrisy that comes out of certain camps.

but then i have to wonder. is it hypocrisy, or simply ignorance to whats actually going on in the world.

I hear all the money is going to be in military jobs. Not for soldiers of course, but civilian support.

Of course I did. But maybe it's just too basic of a concept for you to grasp. In Ohio, medicaid was expanded. Most everyone who enters those small, rural hospitals has insurance because of that. Those hospitals do much better because of that. In states where medicaid wasn't expanded, far more people going into those rural hospitals don't have insurance. As such those hospitals have a much tougher time and close far more often.

You tried to use "hospitals in your area", which Ohio did expand medicaid to say I was wrong. You were dead wrong. Why? Because to think looking at your area represents the country. It doesn't. You flat out were wrong.

EVERY state that did not expand medicaid is like that. Sorry you missed on that one arch. But at least man up about it. lol

which sucks because you were in the military, like a lot of us. civilians do damn near everything, and these defense contractors get all the bread.

so many military personnel sitting around doing nothing half the time. instead of using more civilian support, they need to be placing soldiers in these admin jobs. not only does it keep soldiers busy in garrison, it helps develop real skills for them to actually transition out of the military and into the private sector.

but that makes too much sense.

I agree, especially as we continue to transition from manufacturing to services. If we don't want to socialize our college education system, at the very least we should make student loan debt more easily discharged in bankruptcy. Why? Because it would then force the colleges and student loan programs to be more reasonable with their loan programs, interest, and payout options. It would likely encourage more state level lobbying of universities to subsidize the cost of going to school. Most loan programs have a degree of predatory behavior to them, but student loans take the cake.



I can empathize with those who are reluctant to switch careers. If I couldn't find work as a software developer and had to do something else... I have no bloody clue what I'd do. I don't think it's easy to expect a coal miner in the twilight peak earning years to spend the money to go to school. But I agree with you that we should be encouraging sustainable industries, not dinosaurs like coal (0.03% of the economy). The entire coal industry is roughly 50,000 peoples. Even within the energy industry, it makes more sense to move to the shale fields of the Dakotas versus staying put in PA/WV/KY to coal mine.

One interesting side effect of globalization is how much it actually encourages living near or in cities. The days of a textile mill or coal mine populating a town are mostly over.

Having a job in tech, I think we need to make STEM a priority in education and concentrate on those areas so individuals are more prepared for their future. Its been a really long time since I've been in K-12 school but I feel that programming needs to be an offered, maybe even required course that people need to take; just like math currently is. I think it needs to be an initiative to expose and offer subjects like these earlier and earlier.

I know my three sons will be learning advanced linear algebra/trig/some programming before high school from me.

(We found out the twins are boys last week, but if they were girls I'd do the same thing!!)

I won't force my son's careers but I feel as someone who did programming at a very young age, that it helped me immensely. I wrote my first program around 8 years old.