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so Pryor and his agent refused $32 million for 4 years to go to Washington as a maybe starter, maybe fill in. why don’t you just say it, mac. tp and his agent screwed the pooch and it will cost tp millions. our fo made a very fair offer and they refused it. he will never get an offer like that again. that said if he wanted to come back to Cleveland next year that would be great.

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Originally Posted By: mac
Time for hapless Cleveland Browns to clean house again: Bill Livingston (photos)

Updated Nov 20, 9:01 AM; Posted Nov 20, 7:53 AM
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By Bill Livingston, The Plain Dealer blivingston@plaind.com
CLEVELAND, Ohio - Tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow, the fellow said, creeps in its petty pace from day-to-day.

Or, in the case of the Browns, it creeps from predictable losses to near-certain defeats, from grim seasons to graveyard decades.

The Browns' disorganization

From owner Jimmy Haslam on down this franchise is an embarrassment.

Let's take a tour at the cockamamie stops along the way down:

Toxic personnel gurus (Joe Banner, Mike Lombardi); a twitchy-thumbed interfering general manager (Ray Farmer); and analytics nerds who think the franchise with the worst season but the most unused future draft picks is the most successful (Sashi Brown and John "Batter up" DePodesta, a baseball guy.)
Coaches Rob Chudzinski, life-long Browns fan to no avail; "Blunt Force Trauma" Mike Pettine, bald guy; Hue Jackson, current incumbent and supposed Quarterback Whisperer, who in that role has apparently become a mime, yanking his top prospect in and out of the lineup.
Quarterbacks such as Heisman has-beens RG3 and Johnny Manziel; local guy Brian Hoyer; Josh McCown, because they'd already tried his brother Luke years ago; guys named Thad, Cody, Kevin, Jason and Clipboard Jesus; and a guy named DeShone but, sadly, not Deshaun.
A stadium at the last home game that on TV (there were few shots of the "crowd") looked perhaps 25 percent full.
A winnable loss

Sunday gave the few fans who can still stand to watch a winnable game, against a warm-weather team, Jacksonville, playing in freezing wind chill, blowing snow and gusting gales.

The Jaguars did their part, showing up as overconfident as the talk of "hanging 40 (points) on them" by former Brown Tashuan Gipson indicated.

The game officials gave Cleveland two two-minute timeouts in the second half in which to plot their deviltry, 10 additional seconds on the clock after an in- or out-of-bounds decision was overturned, and extra life on an early whistle that negated a Jags' touchdown on a fumble return.

The Browns would have none of it, resolutely losing, 19-7.

The Browns' running backs carried the ball just 13 times while DeShone Kizer lost two strip-sack fumbles, the second recovered for a touchdown; threw two interceptions; and lobbed 'er up there 32 times in all, despite a well-deserved reputation for being able to hit the nail squarely on the thumb, accuracy-wise.

Confession

I have to own up to writing that Kizer was the best combination of size, mobility, smarts and arm strength to come to the Browns maybe since Otto Graham. It was a giddy estimation.

The problem with that was that Troy Aikman always says accuracy is the most important quality in quarterbacking, and Marty Schottenheimer called Bernie Kosar "the most accurate deep passer I ever saw."

They were the quarterbacks the last time my hometown team and the team where I live now were consistent contenders. Accuracy is paramount in the NFL.

For the record

All these changes have resulted in the most mortifying example of ineptness since the Detroit Lions went 0-16 in 2008 and the expansion Tampa Bay Buccaneers started 0-26 in their first two seasons in the 1970s.

The Browns' no-this-is-not-a-typo record is:

0-10 this season.
1-25 with Jackson.
4-43 since late in the 2014 season.
The Browns are a franchise that's a national punch-line.

They are a team with a "kick me" sign on their players' backs.

They have a fan base whose loyalty has been betrayed by incompetence so pronounced as to resemble sheer stupidity. How can anyone let this clown carnival go on?

Unfortunately, we can't fire the owner.


IMO, our front office seems to be out of touch with reality...out of touch with their own record 1-26 up to this point...

...our front office seems way too comfortable for the record they are responsible for. I'm not sure they understand the historic significance of their record...

...they are responsible for the worst team in Browns history and are presently on a coarse to break their own record.


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I know Livingston has to be old. I wonder if he is losing his mind. That piece was incoherent.

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vers...if you are serious longtime Browns fan and reflecting upon the present state of the franchise, this has to be driving you nuts.


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Hue is on the cusp of being fired. The front office is not as complacent as you think.

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dev...and just where are you pulling that piece of information from?

Got some links..or maybe Depodesta and Sashi can coach, too???


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The only link I have is the Singletary leak, so I can only speculate as you do.

Something is going to change in Cleveland and Singletary isn't here for anything front office. Not saying Singletary will be hired, perhaps he was just a consultant...

And I really really hope Hue finishes 3-3 or 4-2 to complete the season because I think that's what it will take for him to have a chance to keep his job. I want nothing more than continuity for this franchise. But I also do not know how a coach can go 0-10 in back to back seasons and keep his job.

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Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
I like Livingston.


Typically, I do too. However, he just sounds butt-hurt here.


Browns is the Browns

... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.

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He sounds like he an old, old man w/spittle dripping down his chin.

Man, don't they even have an editor? It was so incoherent.

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Yet at some point you have to wonder when our loyalty turns into stupidity.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
Yet at some point you have to wonder when our loyalty turns into stupidity.


That ship has long sailed.


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Originally Posted By: PrplPplEater
Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
I like Livingston.


Typically, I do too. However, he just sounds butt-hurt here.




He is...that's his stichk.....but I agree with him. At some point when writing about the Browns, what are you supposed to say? You have to understand he isn't a game reporter. He is a columnist....almost editorial in nature.

He is just giving his opinion as he see's it..


If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.

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Originally Posted By: mac
Tell us how much better the Browns have been without Pryor.

Why would Sashi try to get the Redskins to trade Pryor back to the Browns?




Seems like they are about the same if you look at records.

Why would he try to trade for him....why not....it not that we wanted to lose him. We offered the most money, Pryor and/or his agent totally screwed the pooch.


I'd expect us to try for him this off season. Looks like he is headed to IR.


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Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
Originally Posted By: mac
Tell us how much better the Browns have been without Pryor.

Why would Sashi try to get the Redskins to trade Pryor back to the Browns?




Seems like they are about the same if you look at records.

Why would he try to trade for him....why not....it not that we wanted to lose him. We offered the most money, Pryor and/or his agent totally screwed the pooch.


I'd expect us to try for him this off season. Looks like he is headed to IR.


peen...I seriously doubt that Sashi WANTED to trade to get Pryor back.

I'm guessing that after it was announced on Oct 30, that the 49ers completed a trade with the Patriots for Garoppolo, Hue and Haslam had "some discussions", concerning the performance of our front office.

After the Garoppolo trade hit the news on Oct 30, 8:30pm, a flurry of activity was set off in Berea, with the Browns attempting to complete a trade with the  Bengals QB for AJ McCarron. What was not known at that time, the front office was also attempting to trade with the Redskins to bring Pryor back to the Browns. The news that Sashi had attempted to trade for Pryor was not publicly known for a week and half after the trade deadline.

IMO, Hue pushed for both trades (McCarron/Pryor) after the Browns front office was caught off guard and flat footed concerning the Garoppolo trade...then followed up by the failed trade for McCarron and Pryor.

I believe it's now obvious that Hue wants more say concerning the roster.  Also unknown, how much damage the front office did to themselves with the failed trade attempts.

Improvements are needed within the Browns management structure, imo.



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Quote:
I'm guessing that after it was announced on Oct 30, that the 49ers completed a trade with the Patriots for Garoppolo, Hue and Haslam had "some discussions", concerning the performance of our front office.


I think they had some discussions too. But I believe they were about Hue's lack of professionalism and the leaks to the media.

This looks like a pattern for Hue going back to his Oakland days. Media leaks and pushing for more and more power.

If I had to guess between the coaching staff and FO, Hue is on the thinner ice.

But they've all been incompetent. 1-25 is so epically bad that it's owned by everyone. Starts with the Haslams for putting the failed plan together. The FO's plan to take quantity over quality doesn't work in the NFL when you don't have a QB. And it's obvious this coaching staff isn't going to out coach anyone. Hell, they make 2 to 3 decisions a game that actually help the other team win.

It's the biggest pile of dung that's probably ever been presented in the history of professional sports. No one group is responsible for that. It's a perfect storm of incompetence.


LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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I just had a funny thought. Haslem can buy Aston Villa and the whole lot of them can come up with a plan to get them de-relegated or whatever they call it, and then leave things worse than Randy Lerner did....AGAIN.


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What can the front office do to help?

How about resign? laugh

If they're still here and selecting the draft picks again just get the best players available that we need/don't trade down again to get more picks.

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I simply can't get over the fact that some people think a lack of a Garoppolo trade shows some level of incompetence with the front office.

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Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
Yet at some point you have to wonder when our loyalty turns into stupidity.


I think Browns fans are well past the point of loyalty. It's clearly stupidity at this point. There really is no explanation.

What can the front office do to help? Resign. They won't so Haslam will have to fire them. He's not very smart so don't plan on that either.

Really waiting to see what happens if everyone is retained. Ticket sales will have to plummet. I will be laughing my ass off.

The Cleveland Browns: The most inept franchise in professional sports. Thanks Jimmy. Dumbass.


After 55 years, I'm walking away from this dumpster fire. Good luck to everyone who continues to hang on. You'll need it.
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I read somewhere where Belichick values NFL talent over draft picks. Wonder how that's been working out? LOL


After 55 years, I'm walking away from this dumpster fire. Good luck to everyone who continues to hang on. You'll need it.
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Stupidity? I have been rooting for this franchise 52 Years, so you tell me, what am I suppose to do, change teams? Not hardly, I am a Browns fan, then, now, and forever... superconfused

Last edited by PastorMarc; 11/23/17 01:24 PM.

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Maybe just maybe the FO should look at ND,S record with the lousy KIZER and how so much better off ND they are without that Idiotic draft pick of KIZER

How do people that get paid so much and don't understand that a good QB makes all the difference .....makes no sense to even the least knowledgeable fan like me.

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Originally Posted By: Riley01
Maybe just maybe the FO should look at ND,S record with the lousy KIZER and how so much better off ND they are without that Idiotic draft pick of KIZER

How do people that get paid so much and don't understand that a good QB makes all the difference .....makes no sense to even the least knowledgeable fan like me.


Thats 100% FAKE NEWS ...

We would be possibly the best team in COLLEGE FOOTBALL with him this year ... actually ... i see no way we aren’t the best team in college football with him ..

I said last year one of the reasons he left was because he might not have even started if he stood at ND ... about 3 weeks in to the season I KNEW HOW WRONG I WAS ...

We won DESPITE our QB this year ... actually thats not true ... he is a GREAT RUNNER ... but he is one of the most horrifick passers I’ve EVER SEEN ... i’m STUNNED at how bad the QB at ND is .... he makes me long for the days of Blair Kiel and Dayne Christ ...

I really wish he stood .... 9 - 3 is about as good as it gets at ND for multiple reasons ... we would IMO be the best team in college football this year with him ...

Our D was way better than i ever thought it could be .. we have one of it not the best OL in college football and 1 GREAT RB and a few other VERY VERY GOOD ONES and we have plenty of talent at the wideout position and VERY GOOD SPECIAL TEAMS in all facets ...

We were a QB away from BEING ELITE ...

Rip Kizer all U want ... don’t tak about things u know nothing about ... thumbsup




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jc..

Now that the failed trades have faded a bit and the front office is keeping their head down, maybe the call for changes will ease up.

It doesn't look as if Haslam has anything brewing and the Peyton Manning joining the franchise is nothing more than a dream..

...what will the Browns do if they again have the worst record in the NFL?...NOTHING?

I believe Browns fans are going to be disappointed in the response from Jimmy and Dee Haslam, if they are expecting improvements in the current plan.

DO NOT try to spin my post into something it is not..I'm not calling for anything or anyone to be changed or fired or moved.



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Then there is this, the "Greg Schiano to Tenn" story..and how it is linked to the Browns.


Tennessee football: Greg Schiano saga reaffirms incompetence of Jimmy Haslam, John Currie

by Caleb Calhoun1 day ago
 
Tennessee football’s pursuit of Greg Schiano as Volunteers head coach highlights the incompetence of Jimmy Haslam and Athletic Director John Currie.

Tennessee football is suffering. And it’s in the hands of an athletic director who failed miserably at Kansas State along with a booster who has failed miserably at, well, everything.

We’ll get to John Currie failing at Kansas State. But let’s start with the booster, a prominent one in the program.

I’ve said this before, but I want to make it clear. Jimmy Haslam III loses at everything he does. He’s a lousy businessman, a lousy sports owner and a lousy booster. We wrote a piece a month ago about the failed CEO of Pilot J Flying Truck Stop who also incompetently owns the Cleveland Browns.

As we mentioned in that post, the guy only has this company because of what he inherited from his father. And he ran it into the ground, at one point being billions of dollars in debt in 2013 while it was also running a diesel fuel rebate scam.

He’s a failed businessman in every way. On top of that, he’s a failed owner. We don’t have to explain too much about how pathetic the Browns are.

And again, he’s a top booster for the Vols. So it shouldn’t be a surprise that Tennessee would botch anything with Haslam behind the scenes. And that’s where Currie comes in.

According to a report from Jimmy Hyams last March, Haslam was instrumental in the Vols hiring Currie as their new athletic director. He was the search committee that pushed for him.

Before that report dropped, we had a post citing multiple reasons Currie was an awful hire for the program. The guy ran off Frank Martin, a very successful basketball coach, from the Kansas State Wildcats. Martin is now fresh off a Final Four appearance with the South Carolina Gamecocks.

After Hyams’s report came out, we wrote another post that Currie’s hire shows utter incompetence on the part of the UT administration.

So with incompetence squared, again, it’s no surprise that Tennessee football would inevitably botch a coaching search in the worst way. And that’s exactly what happened on Sunday with Greg Schiano.

By now you all know the story. Dan Wolken broke the news that Schiano and the Vols were finalizing a deal early in the afternoon.

Then Vol Twitter rightly blew up, horrified that the school would consider a coach who was barely .500 at Rutgers and accused in a deposition of knowing about Jerry Sandusky’s actions at Penn State back in the 1990s.

Vol Twitter included fans, former players, and even state lawmakers. The backlash reportedly led to a backtrack from the administration’s decision, according to Jimmy Hyams and Bruce Feldman.



Jimmy Hyams
@JimmyHyams

I am told Tennessee was going to have a press conference tonight to announce the hiring of Schiano but canceled it due to protests. Unsure if it will be rescheduled tomorrow or if the deal has fallen through. One prominent booster wasn't happy with Schiano hire.
6:55 PM - Nov 26, 2017


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Bruce Feldman

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@BruceFeldmanCFB

SOURCES: There is some talk going on now between Greg Schiano's reps & #Tennessee about an exit strategy of what has become a very volatile situation. Paperwork was in progress. “They’ve spooked them all,” said a source. "It's a hot mess."
8:01 PM - Nov 26, 2017


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To make a horrific decision and then backtrack due to public pressure is the epitome of incompetence. And don’t kid yourself. There’s no reason to believe that Currie and Haslam weren’t both involved in reaching out to Schiano.

Currie can’t avoid that label since he’s the athletic director. Haslam’s history provides too much smoke for there not to be fire when it comes to his involvement.

Remember this SI Report from Peter King in 2014? Schiano was coming off a disastrous stint with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, but Haslam wanted to hire him to the Cleveland Browns anyway  and clashed with the Browns’ CEO and General Manager, eventually firing both.

Given the fact that Haslam liked Schiano and Currie was his handpicked choice for A.D., it’s pretty clear he would be involved in trying to make Schiano a Vol.

Reporters on Twitter were pretty much in agreement with this.



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Why does John Currie like Greg Schiano? Because Jimmy Haslam does...article from 2014...all you need to know...https://nflspinzone.com/2014/02/12/cleveland-browns-rumors-jimmy-haslam-liked-greg-schiano-joe-banner-didnt/ …
1:14 PM - Nov 26, 2017

Cleveland Browns Rumors: Jimmy Haslam liked Greg Schiano, Joe Banner didn’t
Former Tampa Bay Buccaneers head coach Greg Schiano engineered a disastrous 2013 season that caused him to be unceremoniously dumped upon the conclusion of...
nflspinzone.com


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Austin Stanley
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If Tennessee hires Greg Schiano is will be because of Haslam… 

—> https://atozsportsnashville.com/vols-coaching-search-hot-board-the-final-top-five/6/ … #Vols
12:57 PM - Nov 26, 2017

Vols Coaching Search Hot Board: The Final Top Five - A to Z Sports Nashville
The Tennessee Vols' football season has finally come to an end. Now we can all move on to the final top 5 in our Vols Coaching Search Hot Board:
atozsportsnashville.com


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So yes, Tennessee football fans can blame both Currie and Haslam for the complete disaster that took place on Sunday. Don’t forget that, on top of everything else, SCHIANO MADE ENEMIES WITH PEYTON MANNING!!!

Just look at this 2013 report on Manning being furious with Schiano when Schiano was coaching the Bucs. Manning reportedly cursed him out.

Why would anybody connected to Tennessee football want to hire a head coach who clashed with the school’s greatest ambassador? Again, this wreaks of incompetence in every way.

Whatever happens going forward is anybody’s guess. But after Sunday, it’s clear that the loudest, most obnoxious voices on Vol Twitter are more competent at running the Tennessee football program than its athletic director and one of its most prominent boosters. And that’s just sad.
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Is that guy a real reporter?

Sounds like one of the bumbling idiots on a message board. LOL

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Originally Posted By: mac
Then there is this, the "Greg Schiano to Tenn" story..and how it is linked to the Browns.


Exactly what are you trying to achieve by posting this "trash talk", mac?


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Originally Posted By: bbrowns32
Originally Posted By: mac
Then there is this, the "Greg Schiano to Tenn" story..and how it is linked to the Browns.


Exactly what are you trying to achieve by posting this "trash talk", mac?


32...you don't like that story?

I don't like that story either..

I knew that Haslam was a Tenn booster, but I had no idea he the kind of creditability to play such a role in the hiring of a (Tenn) college coach.

The story is not flattering, but if it is factual, it does give fans an idea where the issues with the Browns franchise originate.


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Originally Posted By: mac
Cleveland Browns Rumors: Jimmy Haslam liked Greg Schiano, Joe Banner didn’t


I laughed at this. Here is the following conversation if it actually ever took place.

Haslam: "I'm hiring Schiano."
Banner: "I don't like him."
Haslam: "$(#* off you little worm. Lick my crusty old toes."
Banner: "Yes sir. Right away, sir."

If Haslam actually wanted Schiano, he'd have him.

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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
Is that guy a real reporter?

Sounds like one of the bumbling idiots on a message board. LOL


Here's what I found on the author of the story...

Caleb Calhoun
As a Maryland graduate who was born and raised in Memphis, Tenn., I have been following college football since Peyton Manning played at the University of Tennessee. I went to school for journalism because of the fact that I wanted to write about sports, and despite growing up a Volunteer fan and an SEC fan, moving to the East Coast has allowed me to embrace college football from a more national perspective. As of right now I still live in Maryland and consider the DMV home, but I never have forgotten my Memphis roots, which I consider home as well.
Tennessee Volunteers logoEditor
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Originally Posted By: BDU
Originally Posted By: mac
Cleveland Browns Rumors: Jimmy Haslam liked Greg Schiano, Joe Banner didn’t



Haslam: "$(#* off you little worm. Lick my crusty old toes."


Are you sure that wasn't Rex Ryan?


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Originally Posted By: Tulsa
Originally Posted By: BDU
Originally Posted By: mac
Cleveland Browns Rumors: Jimmy Haslam liked Greg Schiano, Joe Banner didn’t



Haslam: "$(#* off you little worm. Lick my crusty old toes."


Are you sure that wasn't Rex Ryan?


No, I am almost certain he was busy thinking about feet while getting another Mark Sanchez tattoo. notallthere

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Fixing the Mess Created by Football Guys Wasn't Going to be Easy
Everyone wants to blame the current front office for the Browns mess, but that couldn't be further from the truth.

For the Cleveland Browns and their fans, the words losing and rebuilding have become an unfortunate and regular part of their vocabulary since the team returned to the shores of Lake Erie in 1999.

Your beloved Cleveland Browns are in the midst of their 17th losing season of 19 since returning to the league. Meanwhile if things keep up at the pace they currently are, they could be looking for their 10th head coach during that time period as well.

To make matters that much worse, the team is in the middle of one of the worst win-loss record stretches in NFL history. After going 1-15 in 2016 in year one of their latest rebuild, the team is sitting at 0-11 after their latest loss to the Cincinnati Bengals. Yes fans, for those of you keeping track at home that’s 1-26 in the last 27 games of regular season football.

Losing is never easy, as Browns fans you already know this. But this time, the losing was supposed to be different as the organization embarked on what was supposed to be one of the biggest teardowns in league history—led by a baseball nerd and lawyer armed with their calculators, magical abacus and this shocking new approach called “analytics.”

If you are sensing a tad bit of sarcasm in that last paragraph, good—we are on the same page.

The Cleveland Browns approach to their latest rebuild in 2016 was instantly met with pushback and doubt across the league. Despite the fact that analytics are heavily involved in every front office across the league and have been for quite some time, the Browns approach without a “football guy” in charge of the organization made analytics suddenly this taboo subject people only wanted to criticize.

And criticize they have. From the very first trade down, to every expected trade down in every draft and eventually letting every single good player the team develops walk in free agency in the future, Sashi Brown and company have been painted the “bad guys” in this latest episode of As The Cleveland Browns Turn.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news to all of the “football guys” fans and baseball nerd and lawyer bashers out there, but Sashi and company aren’t the ones creating a mess. They are the ones attempting to clean up the massive mess left for them by all the football guys who came before them.

The Super Bowl Winning Coach and Former General Manager

Though we could take a walk down memory lane all the way back to 1999 and break down every single misstep by each regime that came before them, for this article six seasons will suffice—because that takes us to the beginning of the Mike Holmgren and Tom Heckert era in Cleveland, and probably pushes the limit of your attention span as a reader.

Holmgren, owner of 40-plus years of experience as a “football guy” and multiple time Super Bowl Champion, came on board to lead this organization as Team President. For his General Manager, he chose a pretty well-qualified individual to take over the role in Heckert, who was the former Philadelphia Eagles GM and long-time scout and personnel man in the NFL.

These two were supposed to be the duo who finally dragged the Browns out of their losing grave and brought back winning football to Cleveland. Right away in their first draft, things looked as if they would go that way—as the team identified and drafted two eventual playmakers in Joe Haden and T.J. Ward in 2010.

After the selections of Haden and Ward, things did not go nearly as well in the rest of the second and third rounds of the draft, as they walked away with Montario Hardesty, Colt McCoy and Shawn Lauvao.

The rest of their first NFL Draft in Cleveland wasn’t very good, but for the sake of this article, my sanity and all of you going and Googling every single player drafted after the Browns picked in the 4th-7th rounds of the NFL Draft, we are sticking to the first three rounds since those are the ones expected to yield the most contributors.

In his first season, Heckert would also find a diamond in the rough in Peyton Hillis (if only for a short period of time) by moving on from former first-round pick, Brady Quinn, in a trade with Denver. Hillis would go on to rush for 1,177 yards and 11 touchdowns as the Browns feature back in 2010.

The result? A 5-11 record in 2010, the end of Jake Delhomme’s five-game stint as the Browns starting QB (and pretty much his career) and one epic rushing of McCoy into the starting QB position despite Holmgren swearing up and down it would not happen. But hey, at least Hillis would be the Madden cover athlete the following year!

Year two of the Holmgren-Heckert marriage in Cleveland for the 2011 season would see the team move on from Eric Mangini and usher in the Pat Shurmur and Dick Jauron era for the Browns. When it came to the offseason, the team would be transitioning to a West Coast offense and 4-3 base defense, so naturally change was expected—however, much of it did not come.

In free agency, they would add Seneca Wallace to their QB room with McCoy. In the draft, they would execute one of the most criticized (and that’s saying something) trades to date.

Slotted to pick No. 6 in the NFL Draft with easy access to the No. 1 wide receiver (Julio Jones) their team had been lacking, they decided to execute a major trade down with the Atlanta Falcons. They would acquire multiple selections over 2011 and 2012, before trading back up in round one from 27 to 21 for defensive tackle Phil Taylor. In round two, they took standout defensive end Jabaal Sheard and major disappointment at wide receiver, Greg Little. In an underrated move, Heckert would also acquire John Greco in a trade.

Taylor’s career with the Browns was up and down thanks to injuries, while Sheard was very impressive during his first three years with the team, racking up 21 sacks—with 15.5 of them coming in the first two seasons while at defensive end. Little? Well, I don’t think we even need to go there.

The result? 4-12 in the win-loss column, Hillis falling off the face of the earth thanks to a battle with the ever-pesky strep throat and an eventual exit in free agency following the season.

After two years, everyone thought year three would finally be the year for Holmgren and Heckert. Locked and loaded with two first-round picks thanks to their trade down the previous season, the 2012 NFL Draft was going to be “the one” for the Browns leading duo. But you all know how this one went.

In the first round, the Browns selected Trent Richardson and Brandon Weeden, while in rounds two and three they selected Mitchell Schwartz and John Hughes. Then a few weeks later they would make a move that would be one of their best, yet most controversial for the franchise as a whole in the future. They used a 2013 second-round pick to select troubled wide receiver, Josh Gordon.

The result? 5-11 in the win-loss column, while Gordon showed flashes of having potential to be one of the best receivers in the league in the coming years at just 21-years old. But at the end of the day, it was the beginning of a spiral for this organization under new owner Jimmy Haslam, as Holmgren and Heckert were let go along with the coaching staff.

The Prodigal Son Returns

In his first “real move” as the team’s owner, Haslam replaced his President and GM with Michael Lombardi in a highly criticized move by Browns fans thanks to moves he was part of as the team's Director of Pro Personnel in the early 1990s. Lombardi and company would hire head coaching unknown, Rod Chudzinski, as the team’s new head coach—followed by the additions of Norv Turner and Ray Horton as offensive and defensive coordinator.

In his lone season in charge of the franchise (more on that in a little bit), the 30-plus year “football guy” Lombardi would make some changes to the team’s roster. Out the door went fan favorites Josh Cribbs and Phil Dawson, meanwhile Lombardi spent big on linebacker Paul Kruger, defensive lineman Desmond Bryant and linebacker Quentin Groves to add to Horton’s new 3-4 defense.

The 2013 NFL Draft would also see more commitment to shoring up the defense, as with the team’s lone selections in the first three rounds they would take Barkevious Mingo and Leon McFadden. Their second-round selection was previously used to select Gordon, which was looking like a pretty good move right about now.

The result? 4-12 in the win-loss column, while Gordon took the next step in his assault on the league with Turner as his offensive coordinator. After serving a two-game suspension to begin the season, Gordon would take the league by storm, catching 87 passes for 1,646 yards and nine touchdowns in 14 games.

But at the end of the day it wasn’t enough, as trigger Jimmy struck by firing Lombardi and Chudzinski. This would cause Turner and Horton to move on to other teams as well.

The Backwards Hiring of Coach Before GM

After cleaning house, Haslam decided to shake things up. He hired Mike Pettine as his new head coach in 2014, then fired Lombardi. Following this, he would elevate assistant GM Ray Farmer to GM of his franchise, and Joe Banner would “transition” out the door from the team’s front office.

And so would begin one of the oddest two-year spans for the Cleveland Browns.

To make this as painless as possible, I am going to wrap 2014 and 2015 into the same breakdown. Despite owning four first-round picks in two seasons, another “football guy” in Farmer failed to land one impact player by selecting Justin Gilbert, Johnny Manziel, Danny Shelton and Cam Erving.

Only Shelton remains on the roster of these four first round picks.

Farmer had much more success in the second and third rounds, finding Joel Bitonio, Christian Kirksey and Duke Johnson over his two seasons with the team. But he was not without his faults, as he used an early second round pick on Nate Orchard, traded up to select Terrance West and used a third rounder on Xavier Cooper.

In free agency, Farmer really made his “mark.”

Instead of addressing the wide receiver position prior to an impending suspension for Gordon in a loaded 2014 draft class, Farmer signed Miles Austin, Earl Bennett, Nate Burleson and Andrew Hawkins in free agency. He would also bring Donte Whitner “home,” sign Karlos Dansby, dish out a decent contract to running back Ben Tate and add Vince Young to the mix, though Young would never make the roster in 2014. Also, starting center Alex Mack would attempt to leave in free agency but the Browns matched the creative deal to keep him with the team—for now.

In 2015, he would again ignore the wide receiver position, opting to instead bring Brian Hartline “home” and dish out millions to the biggest waste of roster space ever, Dwayne Bowe. He would also bring in Tramon Williams from the Packers, Josh McCown from Tampa Bay and Randy Starks from Miami as “name” signings.

The results? 2014 would be the best season in a long, long time for the Browns as they finished 7-9 and had many thinking playoffs before losing five straight to end the season. But 2015 would be the beginning of the end, as young contributors like Jordan Cameron, Jabaal Sheard and Buster Skrine would leave in free agency and the team would finish 3-13 on the year.

Following the season, Farmer and company would be let go.

Make the Pain Stop, Bob

Three regimes of “football guys” over the course of six seasons and one trigger happy owner are the true culprits of the mess you see before you, not the media’s scapegoats the baseball nerd and the lawyer with an analytics hobby.

Six seasons of dysfunction, coaching changes, scheme changes and losing are what caused the few bright spots found through the draft and free agency (Ward, Sheard, Skrine, Mack, Benjamin and Gipson) to leave.

Six seasons of missing on players selected in the first three rounds of the draft are why in 2016 the “analytics guys” found themselves with a cupboard nearly bare in regard to young players with upside and the potential to be impact players in the future.

Only 8 of the 24 players selected in the first three founds of the drafts from 2010 – 2015 ended up being able to make a true impact on the team during their time here. Haden, Ward, Sheard, Schwartz, Gordon (Supplemental), Bitonio, Kirksey and Johnson. If you want to include Shelton and Taylor in here, you are more than welcome, but personally neither have lived up to their draft position.

Of that list of players, the only ones available from the list above for Brown and company to build around for the future (not including Thomas who was from the 2007 NFL Draft class) were a banged-up Haden, a suspended Gordon, Bitonio, Kirksey, Johnson and Schwartz. Haden’s injuries caught up to him and he was let go in 2017.

They rewarded both Bitonio and Kirksey with extensions, recognizing their importance to the team. The coaching staff refuses to give Johnson the ball despite him being a lightning rod every time he touches it, and it appears Gordon is finally gracing us with his presence this week.

That brings us to Schwartz, the right tackle everyone loved to hate until his final season with the team when everything “clicked.” His free agency was reportedly messy, and we will likely never know the details of what happened in the contract negotiations—so if you want to put that blame on Brown and the front office, go ahead.

But when you look up and down the roster Brown inherited in 2016, it was an absolute wasteland of failed draft picks needing to be moved on from (Manziel, Gilbert, Erving and more), and underperforming previous free agency investments (Bowe, Dansby, Hartline, Whitner, McCown, Hawkins, Gary Barnidge and eventually Williams).

No amount of free agency spending (a common complaint of fans) was going to fix what ailed the Browns roster, you watched millions upon millions of dollars in failed free agency signings during the previous six years fail to make an impact and walk out of town after padding their wallets during their stay in Cleveland.

So Brown and company followed the model which worked for Jimmy Johnson’s Dallas Cowboys and many other successful teams in NFL history—build through the draft. And it hasn’t been easy.

If you want to be mad about the team not taking one of these talented quarterbacks the past two seasons, I cannot fault you for that. Just know that the team’s QB guru head coach had more to do with that than any member of the front office, especially since the “earth moved beneath his feet” when Robert Griffin III worked out for the team, and they signed him instead of drafting Carson Wentz because of it.

The record does not show it, but using the same first three rounds of the draft model detailed in this article—you cannot possibly say the potential for impact talent isn’t there.

Corey Coleman, Emmanuel Ogbah, Myles Garrett, David Njoku and Larry Ogunjobi have shown the potential to be at a bare minimum solid players, with Ogbah and Garrett standing out as bookends on the line for years to come.

Carl Nassib and Shon Coleman have had their ups and downs, and specifically regarding Coleman—remember, you were trying to run Schwartz out of town until his final season here as well, so it may just be that developing as a right tackle in the NFL takes more than a season.

Jabrill Peppers and DeShone Kizer have struggled in a big way, but they are 22 and 21 respectively, and have a lot of time to learn and grow. In reality, the only pick you can likely write off is Cody Kessler at this point from the first three rounds of the last two drafts due to his limitations, the presence of Kizer and potential for another quarterback to be added in the 2017 NFL Draft.

After witnessing six regimes get little from 16 of their 24 picks in the first three rounds of the draft, it is pretty impressive how many people want to cast blame on the front office when at a minimum you can say 50 percent of their 10 picks in the first three rounds the last two seasons have shown something on the field less than two seasons (and in some cases less than one season) into their young careers.

Final Thought

Losing isn’t easy, and 1-25 is downright devastating and fanbase dividing. There is no way to sugarcoat the product fans have watched over the past two seasons on the field for the Cleveland Browns.

But when you really sit back and examine it (after reading nearly 3,000 words in this article), the mess you see today isn’t the fault of a baseball nerd and a lawyer with an analytics hobby. It is the culmination of failed drafts, failed free agency investments and young bright spots leaving after continuous organizational instability and upheaval from a trigger-happy owner with a backwards organizational and hiring structure in mind.

There was never going to be a quick fix, and this front office wasn’t interested in patching this thing up with a band-aid to go 3-13 and 4-12 for two years before Haslam eventually fired everyone and started over. They created a plan of building a roster through the draft, and that takes more than 26 games no matter how you look at it.

If the front office is let go, the success of the next front office will be in large part due to the assets in terms of young, developing players on this roster, the future draft assets Brown and company have accumulated during the first two seasons and one shrewd move to acquire the center of their linebacking corps and defense during the middle of a losing season in Jamie Collins.

At the end of the day, many will not be able to see past wins and losses—I get that. But when you head to Twitter to rip the analytics guys for the product on the field, just know it was six seasons of poor decisions by football guys that led to the roster you see before you. And a baseball nerd and his lawyer pal with an analytics hobby are trying to dig out using the model for long-term success in the NFL—building through the draft—that has been used by football guys and analytics guys alike for decades.

https://scout.com/nfl/browns/Article/Cle...-Easy-111277332


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Browns are doing it right; that hinging on keeping our current guys, both coaches and FO, and maybe bringing someone in to help build the relationship/communication between the two.

We've said it for years... build through the draft. We have.

We just need a QB (not saying Kizer can't be that guy).


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Best article I've read about why we suck.....what can front office do to help....my answer- go steal some success- find out who in responsible for the continued Steeler success in selecting wide receivers and give them MILLIONS....literally, what ever it takes to bring some savy WR choices to Cleveland. Millions spent on correct guys or gals scouting would fix the no hands, no talent against NFL players we are saddled with....all FOUR draft choices at WR haven't lived up to billings.....stinks....GO Browns!!!!


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I like that this article has kept the "front office is to blame" posters quiet. Do you think they realize how good the front office is yet?

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Originally Posted By: devicedawg
I like that this article has kept the "front office is to blame" posters quiet. Do you think they realize how good the front office is yet?


Curiously this article could have been written for all the regimes that were here....

How many regimes have based their whole argument on the new/young talent?

But looking at the roster,who are the talented ones? I can only see 2, JT and MG, the rest of them are just average at best and what is worst is that all the positions that were addressed (with the exception of the pass rusher) are still weaknesses of the team.

In the end we still have to find a QB, a #1WR and a SS. You could add also a blocking TE, some CB's and IMHO a RB and a LT.

This regime has improved very little... our run D improved, but still we cannot hold the Bengals or Jax run offense, so I don't think is something you can bragg about.

Pass D is miserable, Run O non-existent, Pass O a disgrace and special teams are not that good.

Last edited by rastanplan; 11/29/17 08:31 AM.
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Not to rub salt in the wounds, but these Tweets from Mike Silver have been doing the rounds.

Quote:
I talked to Hue Jackson about Wentz many, many times pre-draft. Jackson never disparaged his ability. Thought 2 was too high to take him.


https://twitter.com/MikeSilver/status/773177801729978368

Quote:
splitting hairs? I'm telling you what he actually thought. Did not want Wentz at 2 or anything close to 2.


https://twitter.com/MikeSilver/status/773185003836411904

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Originally Posted By: devicedawg
I like that this article has kept the "front office is to blame" posters quiet. Do you think they realize how good the front office is yet?


I’m not one of the FO is to blame posters .. i’m Not even sure theres anyone in that camp .... if your reffering to Vers .. theres a HUGE DIFFERENCE between blaming the FO for everything and DEFENDING HUE ... he defends Hue for a reason ... thats not blaming the FO for everything ...

i’m In the EVERYONE HAS SOME WARTS CAMP ... but enough is enough ...

Talk about rushing to judgement ... sheeesh ...

U opened this can of worms with that insult above .... so here we go ... buckle up ... i am a wee bit more blunt .. *L*

It takes 3 years to judge a draft class ... so anyone that understands FOOTBALL isn’t going to start patting this FO on the back for at least 2 or 3 years ...

If u do want to play that game .... witch is dumb as hell ... but i guess anyone thats OK with the final decision maker on personal matters being a lawyer witch is MORONIC will not understand its WAY TO EARLY to judge ...

The 1st class looks like we got two players ... Ogbah has a chance to be a STUD ... Coleman has played well this year WHEN HEALTHY .... despite his DROPPED TD last week ...

They also picked up a ton of picks ....

After that ... meh ... if they were as good as u say we’d have another decent WR out of the 9 they drafted that year ... we don’t need to wait much longer on those guys .... LOUIS CAN’T CATCH ... what a BRILLIANT PICK ... hey guys ... hes a great athelete that CAN’T CATCH ... who cares WR’s being able to catch is way way over rated ... rolleyes

They also PASSED on not ONE but TWO very good QB’s ... one has a shot to be VERY VERY SPECIAL .... is that fair of me .. HELL NO ... but neither was your snide ass remark about US UNDERSTANDING ...

BUT it is a FACT!!! ... i’m sure your going to tell me its Hue’s fault ... well a good FRONT OFFICE would have sold their case better to Hue OR simply over ruled him ...

Draft #2 ...

MG was the NO BRAINER of NO BRAINERS ... I loved Mitch ... but i would have taken MG .. thats how good he is ... ATHELETIC FREAK ... very happy we have him ... even a lawyer can see that ... wink

Then they pass on YET ANOTHER POTENTIAL FRANCHISE QB and ONE HELL OF A SAFETY that having him fall to them was a HUGE HUGE GIFT .... we decide to TRADE DOWN AGAIN and LOOK THE GIFT HORSE IN THE MOUTH .... smooth move boys ... WE DON’T NEED NO STINKING GIFTS we’ll do it our way ..

And here’s where playing this dumb ass game gets u in trouble ...

The rest of this DRAFT CLASS has STUNK SO FAR .... I actually feel filthy just doing this ... thats how WRONG IT IS to judge these guys now ...

I can’t even do it ... I need to go shower ... *L* ...

I’ll just leave it at its way to soon to even play this dumb ass game yet ...

I’ll give these KIDS a few years before i start to give the FO PATS ON THE BACK and make snide ass remarks about IF OTHERS UNDERSTAND HOW GOOD THEY ARE YET!!!!!!

Its safe to unbuckle now ... thumbsup




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Originally Posted By: BDU
J/C

Not to rub salt in the wounds, but these Tweets from Mike Silver have been doing the rounds.

Quote:
I talked to Hue Jackson about Wentz many, many times pre-draft. Jackson never disparaged his ability. Thought 2 was too high to take him.


https://twitter.com/MikeSilver/status/773177801729978368

Quote:
splitting hairs? I'm telling you what he actually thought. Did not want Wentz at 2 or anything close to 2.


https://twitter.com/MikeSilver/status/773185003836411904


Further proof that this FO has leaned heavily on Hue for a quarterback. Wanted RG3 over Wentz. So yes, I think Depo was accurate when saying "we" when talking about Wentz in that Grossi interview.

Seriously...Why make your first ever pick on a QB your HC/QB guru doesn't even want at #2. That'll start things off on a positive note between your new HC and front office, right? Clearly, it was the wrong approach by both groups.

I hope Hue doesn't get the "more power" he allegedly wants in personnel matters and can focus on improving as a coach.


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