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Cleveland Browns search for a starting quarterback
Sunday, July 22, 2007
Tony Grossi
Plain Dealer Reporter H ere we go again.
Another Browns season kicks off with the opening of training camp on Friday. As usual, the primary focus will be fixed on the quarterbacks.
This has been a rite of summer for the Browns and their fans since the franchise was reborn in 1999. In eight seasons, the team has had six different starting quarterbacks on opening day -- four in the last four years.
It will be five in the last five unless Charlie Frye can stave off Derek Anderson and rookie draft pick Brady Quinn and hold on to a job that he said in June he "never knew was lost."
If it wasn't lost then, it may be now.
Frye entered the off-season with "a leg up" on Anderson, according to coach Romeo Crennel. But after 21 organized practices, including five in minicamp, Anderson emerged as the slight front-runner as the competition reached the training camp and preseason stages.
Whatever advantage Frye built in 18 starts over the previous two seasons evaporated when the Browns overhauled their offensive coaching staff. Only quarterbacks coach Rip Scherer remains from Crennel's staff last season. Coordinator Rob Chudzinski's new offensive system was a challenge for all three quarterbacks, and Anderson edged ahead.
"Just based on the feeling I've gotten from the coaching staff and personal observations, I think you can make an argument that Charlie and Derek are probably closer in competition than they were in the springtime going into the draft, and I would say Brady is behind those guys," General Manager Phil Savage said.
"I know prior to us leaving [the coaches] were pretty pleased with the way Derek's performed in OTAs and minicamp. I think he's definitely put himself in position where he can conceivably win the job."
Frye's psychological approach to his third NFL training camp may be vital to his performance. It will not be an easy time for him.
For example, Frye was in attendance at the Kenny Chesney concert in Cleveland Browns Stadium last weekend when Jennifer Nettles, lead singer for the band Sugarland, entered the stage wearing a Brady Quinn No. 10 jersey. The crowd gave a loud roar of approval.
And Quinn currently ranks third in the competition.
FOR A CLOSER LOOK AT THE QUARTERBACKS WHO WILL BE UNDER THE MICROSCOPE, TURN TO PAGE C8.
And when you go to page C8, here's the article:
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Cleveland Browns meeting with Quinn's agent
Sunday, July 22, 2007Tony GrossiPlain Dealer Reporter
Agent Tom Condon was scheduled to arrive in Berea today to continue contract talks for quarterback Brady Quinn.
Although nobody expects Quinn to be signed in time for the start of rookie orientation on Monday - or even for the official start of training camp on Thursday - Condon's visit is a good sign. It would be his third face-to-face meeting with Browns officials since Quinn was drafted 22nd overall in April.
A year ago, Condon did not have his first negotiating session for quarterback Matt Leinart until the first day of Arizona's training camp. Leinart was the last first-round pick to sign a contract last year.
Leinart, the 10th overall pick of 2006, signed for up to $50.8 million over six years, with $14 million guaranteed. That deal didn't come in until 10 days after the next-to-last first-rounder to sign.
So the Browns and Quinn appear well ahead of that pace.
The Quinn negotiations are rife with challenges, what with the high-profile quarterback falling on draft day to the 22nd spot and the Browns trading two high picks - including next year's No. 1 - to select him.
Another sidebar is that Condon is now sitting on opposite sides of the bargaining table from one of his former bosses. Browns vice chairman Bob Kain was CEO of IMG when Condon joined the sports marketing firm as head of its football division in 1990.
Condon left IMG last year to lead the sports division of Los Angeles-based Creative Artists Agency.
Kain was not expected to actively participate in negotiations. But he did sit in on the first session with Condon, along with CFO Mike Keenan, General Manager Phil Savage and Trip MacCracken, the team's chief negotiator.
It is not known if Condon's visit will result in a new proposal by the Browns. They have made two.
Priorities:
This is purely speculative, but it would seem that if the Browns had to rank the urgency of getting their top three players signed, it would be Joe Thomas first, Eric Wright second and Quinn third.
Thomas, the No. 1 pick, and Wright, a second-round pick, have much stronger chances of cracking the team's starting lineup than Quinn.
Thomas will compete with incumbent Kevin Shaffer to start at offensive left tackle. Wright will battle Daven Holly, Kenny Wright and others to start at cornerback.
Both players have solid chances of winning the jobs if they don't miss much time. Plus, both players will find training camp much more physical than minicamp and the OTAs.
Quarterbacks are protected from hitting in training camp, so the change won't be as dramatic for Quinn. One exception is that timing with receivers could be altered by the contact in the secondary.
As for Quinn, missing any time could solve coordinator Rob Chudzinski's dilemma of sharing practice time among three quarterbacks all learning the offense at the same time. A Quinn holdout would resolve that issue and also relieve some pressure on Charlie Frye and Derek Anderson.
Savage did not bite on the characterizations of a possible Quinn holdout as "convenient."
"I think our approach here is we want to get all our players here soon as we can," he said. "Just like we said during the draft, we need to be nimble and be able to adjust. If [Quinn's] here, that presents a certain set of circumstances. If he's not here, it presents a different set."
No haste with Shaffer:
The longer Thomas stays absent, the less likely a trade of Shaffer will happen.
At least three teams still are searching for an experienced left tackle, including the Giants, who pursued Shaffer on draft day. Savage learned the hard way last year when he traded Jeff Faine after signing LeCharles Bentley in free agency that you can never have too many experienced offensive linemen on hand.
"I think we just play it by ear," Savage said of interest in Shaffer. "Obviously people wrote a lot about that after the draft and during the month of May. We feel good about our depth at offensive line and we're going to need all of them at a certain point. If something ever came up that would benefit the team, then certainly I'd consider it. But right now we're good to go with what we have."
Couch comeback:
Tim Couch, who turns 30 this month, told WKYT-TV in Lexington, Ky., that he has called every NFL team in one last attempt to resume his playing career. Couch has not played since having a second rotator cuff surgery in 2004. He said he will walk away with no regrets if no team invites him to training camp.
"If nothing happens before the season starts, I'll move on," he said.
Couch said he is in the best shape of his life after working with a personal trainer in south Florida and has been throwing the football pain-free. He weighs 245 pounds, up 20 from his playing weight when he was the expansion Browns' first-ever draft pick. He said he lowered his body fat from 13 percent to 5 percent. "I think I have five or six good years in the NFL left in me," he said.
To reach this Plain Dealer reporter:
tgrossi@plaind.com, 216-999-4670
Oddly enough, when you go to Cleveland.com and click on the link to the individual stats on each QB, it only shows anderson.. I think we have all seen all our QB's history.. So I decided not to cut and paste those..
Here's the Link: http://www.cleveland.com/browns/plaindealer/
What can I say,, it's a couple of days before camp and the stories are flying now...LOL
Anyway, the first part is another in a long line of stories we've read lately that says that Anderson is in the lead.....
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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i on the other hand find a holdout by Quinn "convenient"... lol
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Honestly, that's not funny at all.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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I don't care to hear about ANY of our players having their confidence hit; we need EVERYONE running on all cylinders, physically and mentally, as soon as they put on the pads for training camp. May the best man win. 
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Here's an article from the News Herald, more of the same. http://www.news-herald.com/site/news.cfm...21848&rfi=6The most important decision Jeff Schudel JSchudel@News-Herald.com07/22/2007 Email to a friendPost a CommentPrinter-friendly ny Browns' future success depends heavily on whom the team picks as its starting quarterback next month. Don't think it's that important? Ask Butch Davis Advertisement Four applicants, three job openings and no affirmed starting quarterback. What is about to begin for the Browns is a whole lot bigger than a game of high stakes musical chairs. The last time the Browns went into training camp unsure of their starter was 2003. Butch Davis was the coach then. In the fall of 2002, speaking about the Bengals, Davis said if a coach doesn't know who his starting quarterback is he probably doesn't have one. How right Davis turned out to be. Perhaps forgetting his own words, Davis let Tim Couch and Kelly Holcomb duke it out in the 2003 training camp. Holcomb won the job and then fell flat on his face. It was the beginning of the end for Davis. The 2007 training camp begins Monday for Browns rookies and Friday for veterans. General Manager Phil Savage expects this to be a pivotal year, and the quarterback battle is at the center of it. Derek Anderson, Ken Dorsey, Charlie Frye and rookie Brady Quinn are the contenders. Dorsey is not a realistic candidate to start, but he is an ideal third quarterback. One day before camp opens, it appears very unlikely Quinn will sign in time to take the field with the rest of the rookies. Frye and Anderson will practice with the rookies, however. The more practice time they get while Quinn is absent, the more they will separate themselves from Quinn in the quarterback derby. Assuming Quinn's holdout is not prolonged, there is a very real possibility the three quarterbacks making the final roster will be Quinn and Dorsey plus either Anderson or Frye - but not both. Anderson gave a hint of that in minicamp when he said, "Then I won't be here," when asked what would happen if he doesn't put up a fight to start. "We'll keep giving them as equal a number of reps as we can, until we decide we need to cut back so that we can give the guys we think are going to play the most reps," Coach Romeo Crennel said at the conclusion of minicamp last month. "Now, whenever that's going to be, I can't answer that." Normally, a coach wants to have a starting quarterback in place by the third preseason game, if not sooner. The organized team activities in May and June and the minicamp last month were poor auditions for Frye, Anderson and Quinn. Passes bounced off the ground or were behind or beyond the receiver as often as they were on target. The incomplete passes were not the fault of the quarterbacks alone. Everyone was trying to learn the schemes designed by new offensive coordinator Rob Chudzinski. Whether he has given his players more than they can handle will become evident as training camp and the preseason unfold. What is clear is this is a team and organization desperate for success after winning just 19 of 64 games in four years. The Browns haven't been to the playoffs since 2002 - the longest drought of any AFC North team. It is why Savage traded his second-round pick in 2007 and first-round choice in 2008 to the Cowboys so he could draft Quinn with the 22nd pick of the first round. It is also why the Browns gave left guard Eric Steinbach a seven-year, $49 million contract. At the time, it was the biggest contract given to a guard in NFL history. "I think the Browns needed a day like this," Savage said after drafting Wisconsin left tackle Joe Thomas and Quinn in the first round. "If it had been a normal draft where we would have taken Joe Thomas and someone else at No. 36, people would have said, 'Yeah, he's about a second-rounder. The Browns are never going to catch up talent-wise because they are not getting enough impact players or enough players in the back end of the draft.' "I think that you hear people say, 'This gives the Browns a chance to get back on the map.' The future is bright for us if things go as planned." Whether Savage and Crennel are part of that future could depend on their choice for the starting quarterback. The case for Frye Frye is the incumbent, such as it is, and because he is he has "a leg up" on the other quarterbacks, to use Crennel's expression. The Browns were 4-9 in the 13 games Frye started last season, and that is giving him credit for the Kansas City game, even though the score was 14-14 when Anderson took over after halftime because Frye suffered a wrist injury in the second quarter. Frye missed the next three games. Frye threw 17 interceptions and lost seven fumbles. He was especially ineffective inside the 20. He made mistakes that cost the Browns games, such as the time he threw an interception in the end zone against the Ravens on Sept. 24. Baltimore turned the takeaway into a game-winning field goal on the final play to win, 15-14. Jeff Davidson, who took over as offensive coordinator with 10 games left, had no confidence in Frye. It was evident in the plays he called, and after leaving the Browns to be the offensive coordinator for the Panthers, Davidson said Frye is not good enough to be an NFL starter. Davidson's prediction and the 24 turnovers aside, history suggests one season is too soon to give up on the 2005 third-round pick from Akron. Peyton Manning threw 26 touchdown passes and 28 interceptions as a rookie in 1998, and the Colts were 3-13. Troy Aikman played in 11 games as a rookie for the Cowboys in 1989 and 15 in 1990. He threw nine touchdown passes and 18 interceptions in 1989, and the Cowboys were 1-15. He was 11 up and 18 down in 1990, and the Cowboys were 7-9. Manning and Aikman got better when they gained experience and when the players around them got better. Frye has amazing self-confidence. He loves football. He would be crushed if he is the third quarterback here after starting last season and is at least good enough to be a No. 2 QB on most teams. Frye firmly believes he will start against the Steelers in the opener Sept. 9. He says he learned a lot under fire last season. He plans to stay in the pocket more instead of rolling out and turning his back on half the field. "I think there are a lot of things I do differently (than last year)," Frye said. "The experience is probably the major thing. I want to make better decisions this year and just be more in control and not get flustered. I want to have command on the field. The experience from last year will help all that." Crennel said Frye got stronger in the offseason. Arguably, Frye deserves a chance to play with Steinbach and Thomas - and possibly LeCharles Bentley - in front of him and Jamal Lewis in the backfield. The case for Anderson Anderson is the best passer on the roster. His passes don't flutter, he has more velocity than Frye or Quinn and he has a quicker release than the other two. He proved that in the three games he started last year while Frye mended from the wrist injury. Anderson showed the same skills in minicamp. "Derek has the strongest arm, and there are no secrets about that," Crennel said. "But along with that you have to be able to run the offense. There's more to it than just having a strong arm." Yes, Anderson zips the ball, but sometimes he zips it to the wrong zip code. He was 0-3 after his heroic comeback against the Chiefs, and in his brief time in the spotlight he threw eight interceptions. Eight interceptions in 3 1/2 games projects to 36 picks for the season. Those interceptions from last year cannot be ignored when Crennel and Savage pick their starter, because history is all coaches have to go on. If a coach plays a quarterback who has a history of throwing interceptions, a running back who fumbles or a receiver who drops passes and the same thing happens, the coach ultimately pays with his job. Yet the inexperience that affected Frye also affected Anderson, originally a sixth-round pick by the Ravens in 2005. At least Frye played five games as a rookie. Anderson didn't even have that. He was on the field for exactly one play until he replaced Frye in the third quarter against the Chiefs. Savage and the coaches are intrigued by Anderson despite the interceptions. "I'd say my chances of starting are good," Anderson said. "That's just my sense. Whoever performs well and moves the team the best is going to be that guy. "With my limited mobility, throwing on time is obviously part of my thing. Making those timing throws and getting the ball out on time helps the whole system. I think I do a pretty good job of that most of the time, and I'll keep working on it." Anderson worked on his agility in the offseason to escape the rush better. He was sacked eight times last year while having the misfortune of playing without Ryan Tucker at right tackle. By then guards Joe Andruzzi and Cosey Coleman had trouble walking, let alone playing. Anderson does not roll out like Frye, but he will benefit from a better line simply because he'll have more time to throw. More than anything, Anderson will benefit from practice time this training camp. He began camp last year third behind Frye and Dorsey. The case for Quinn The Sporting News made a very bold prediction in its predraft magazine. The "War Room," as the magazine labels its draft panel, concluded Quinn was the biggest risk in the draft and predicted Kevin Kolb, a quarterback from the University of Houston, will be a better pro. The Browns have to be praying that TSN prediction doesn't pan out, because the Eagles took Kolb with the fourth pick in the second round. That would have been the Browns' pick had they not traded it to the Cowboys, who then traded it to the Eagles to jump back into the first round. Waiting for Kolb would mean the Browns would have their first-round pick next year. The Sporting News shied away from Quinn because Notre Dame lost big games with him at quarterback and because he was not an accurate passer beyond 10 yards. The accuracy problem was evident in minicamp, but all the quarterbacks had that problem. And here is the intriguing number for Quinn: He threw 37 touchdown passes and only seven interceptions last year. How can an inaccurate passer do that? "It's not a concern yet," Crennel said of Quinn's misfires. "In September, it will be a concern if they are not on target. Sometimes he tries to anticipate where the receiver is going to be, and if the receiver doesn't get there, it looks like he's not throwing the ball to where he should throw the ball. "It's part of the growing process. He's a willing student, and he'll be OK." Quinn is polished because he played for Charlie Weis in a pro-style offense at Notre Dame. The question becomes whether he has as much upside as Kolb and some of the other quarterbacks taken after JaMarcus Russell (first overall by Oakland) and Quinn. Savage says Quinn has that upside. "I don't really ask the coaches how I'm doing," Quinn said at the end of minicamp. "I'm focusing on getting the playbook down and working hard. I'm trying to go through the progressions and getting that down like the back of my hand. I want to get it down to where it's like I've been here for three or four years." Ron Jaworski of ESPN said Crennel should name Quinn the starter, even if it means taking his lumps as Manning and Aikman did, since Quinn is supposed to be the franchise quarterback. Crennel responded by saying Jaworski should become an NFL head coach before declaring who should start at quarterback. ©The News-Herald 2007
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I still don't get this Derek Anderson garbage.
Only in Cleveland can you sign a QB like Derek Anderson and even think about awarding him the starting position.
This is a guy who was taken in the 6th round---by a team that has been DESPERATE for a QB the past few years--hell, they are still desperate for a QB---They've been drafting QB's every year since I can remember.
And they saw what Anderson could do, and they ended up waiving him.
This is a team that has had no QB prospects to speak of, and, as of now, is striding on the old man legs of McNair. Don't you think that if DA was ANY GOOD, they would have kept him around to develop his skills.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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Legend
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That one made me LOL.
For whatever reason, I didn't find that funny at all... All it does is fuel this whole contraversy thing... and frankly, we don't need that.. what we need is team unity.. To me, that's a bunch of very very stupid fans..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Ron Jaworski of ESPN said Crennel should name Quinn the starter, even if it means taking his lumps as Manning and Aikman did, since Quinn is supposed to be the franchise quarterback.
Crennel responded by saying Jaworski should become an NFL head coach before declaring who should start at quarterback.
haha,. good one. He could say that about a lot of us, too. 
I really don't care who the starter is, I do hope the starter becomes evident very early in the process.
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
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I still don't get this Derek Anderson garbage.
Tyler, think about the strengths and weaknesses of each QB.. Anderson is said to have a rocket launcher for an arm.. OTA's and Mini Camps favor the rocket arm. Nobody rushes them, nobody is allowed to hit them, they can stand in the pocket all day without so much as a hair on thier heads being ruffled.
Also remember this, receivers aren't being bumped around out there. So a guy with that arm is gonna look better.
Neither Quinn or Frye have that kinda arm.. Thus, it stands to reason that at this point in time, they wouldn't look as good as Anderson.
Now come next week or the week after, when the bullets start flying.. if we hear that Anderson is running away with the job, then we all better take that way more serious.. it will actually mean something..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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For example, Frye was in attendance at the Kenny Chesney concert in Cleveland Browns Stadium last weekend when Jennifer Nettles, lead singer for the band Sugarland, entered the stage wearing a Brady Quinn No. 10 jersey. The crowd gave a loud roar of approval.
Maybe the roar was for Jennifer ?.......Might not have mattered what she was wearing...
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Ron Jaworski of ESPN said Crennel should name Quinn the starter, even if it means taking his lumps as Manning and Aikman did, since Quinn is supposed to be the franchise quarterback.
Crennel responded by saying Jaworski should become an NFL head coach before declaring who should start at quarterback.
Now that's funny.
Although, I wouldn't mind doing just that and throwing in the towel on this season if it would put us that much more ahead next year.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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That one made me LOL.
For whatever reason, I didn't find that funny at all... All it does is fuel this whole contraversy thing... and frankly, we don't need that.. what we need is team unity.. To me, that's a bunch of very very stupid fans..
Get used to it...
We didn't give a #1 pick for a QB that's gonna SIT very long...
There is NO POSSIBLE WAY that Quinn sits the entire year...It's simple...People KNOW he's the future of this town...Frye knows it...Anderson knows it...Chud knows it...It's only a matter of WHEN...
Every single bad throw from DA or Frye is gonna start the "We Want Quinn" chants from the crowd...
BANK IT...
Personally I want Quinn in there NO LATER than after game 6...The bye week...By then Thomas should be well entrenched as his Blind Side Protector!!!!...And MAYBE even Bentley will be at RIGHT GUARD!!!!
Thomas
Steinbach
Fraley
Bentley
Tucker
JUST DO IT...........................
Let's get this party started!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Go Browns!!!
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Jeff Davidson, who took over as offensive coordinator with 10 games left, had no confidence in Frye. It was evident in the plays he called, and after leaving the Browns to be the offensive coordinator for the Panthers, Davidson said Frye is not good enough to be an NFL starter.
ouch
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There is NO POSSIBLE WAY that Quinn sits the entire year...It's simple...People KNOW he's the future of this town...Frye knows it...Anderson knows it...Chud knows it...It's only a matter of WHEN...
Well hell, if everyone knows it, why should they even bother to show up,, just throw Quinn in there and let the chips fall where they may,,,,,,
That's the dumbest thinking I've ever heard frankly,,
I want to see competition,, I want Anderson and Frye and Quinn and yes,, Dorsey to make it difficult for the powers that be to make the final decision. I want it to be tough because they all lit it up in Camp and Preseason..
Can you imagine a decision that allows you NOT to be too wrong no matter what choice you make? Wow,, would that be something or what.
As for me, I've said it before,, I don't give a darn who wins the job,, I don't care what name is on the back of his jersey.... Doesn't matter to me at all.
Its JMO, but we should all be thinking like that... Instead of pimping one guy over the other...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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We didn't give a #1 pick for a QB that's gonna SIT very long..
Umm, We gave a number 22 pick.
I feel pretty confident that Frye will start the entire year. He will play well too.
I think last year there was way way way too much adversity for a first year starter to handle. He had no line to protect him, no confidence in there ability to protect him. No running game, even when we got into scoring range, we couldn't punch it in on the ground. We fired our offensive coordinator mid way through the season.
Bottomline there was no way Frye could develop any rhythm with his receivers, no way to alleviate the pressure on him, no way to keep the ball on the ground to run clock. Nothing. Charlie was pretty much our only hope, he had to make things happen all by himself, in his first year as starter. It would be ridiculous to expect much more than he gave us, given the situation he was in.
I think this year will be different barring any injuries on the offensive line or the offensive backfield.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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I don't think DinD was pimping one guy over another. Instead, he was just stating the obvious.
Personally, as far as the qbs are concerned, I'd like to see them name a starter soon. I'm all for competition at the other positions, but I would rather we know who's starting at qb sooner rather than later.
I like that more from a mindset and preparation perspective than anything else.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Umm, We gave a number 22 pick.
It's going to be much higher than that.
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Davidson can kick rocks... He wasnt a good Offensive Coord. to me anyway... and Frye will do a world of a better job this year than compared to last... "get your popcorn ready.. cuz their is going to be a show..." ~Mr. Owens hahaha 
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Perhaps he wasn't pimping Quinn.. But frankly, it's only obvious to some. It's not obvious to me that Quinn is the future. I haven't even seen him throw a ball in the NFL yet!
So while it may be obvious that he's been PICKED to be the future, it's not a sure thing....
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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All Pro
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Davidson can kick rocks... He wasnt a good Offensive Coord. to me anyway...
yeah he was 10% better (that's ten) than mo...i'd say he should be focusing on his job with carolina, wouldn't you? most of his play calling was uninspired.
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Maybe the roar was for Jennifer ?.......Might not have mattered what she was wearing...
Good common sense observation.
...for HER and the fact that she was wearing "A" Browns jersey.
How could anyone, especially a reporter, unless he happened to have an agenda, interpret the applause for a singing star walking on stage as applause actually for the football player whose jersey she was wearing?
I suppose had she been wearing a pink T-shirt no one would have appauded.
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Charlie Frye's career numbers don't lie. In 2006,he only had 2 starts where he through for more TDS than INTS. In 5 starts he threw for more INTS than TDS. In 5 starts he failed to throw for a TD pass.
Other than scrambling,what kind of fear does Charlie instill into a defense..its certainally not his arm......in 2006,he completed 252 passes for a paltry 2,454 yards..he couldn't average 10 yards a completion.
The truth is,Charlie felt what he did at Akron he could get away with at the NFL level. Well you guys have seen the results. A turnover machine.
A qbs job is to protect the football and put points on the board.....Charlie has done neither well.
Within 10-16 starts,you can tell if a qb has "it" or not......
By comparison Jay Cutler stepped in after 10 games and looked like he belonged in the NFL.....1,000 yards 9 TDS and 5 INTS,88 qb rating.......a ability to rally the offense from behind.
Charlie did not progress from 2005 to 2006.
I know Charlie has not had the best supporting cast. But sometimes,not everything is perfect around a qb.
If the organization felt Charlie had what it takes,then why draft Brady Quinn?
If Charlie Frye is the best qb out of camp he deserves to start....
But if the Browns start out 1-3 or 0-4,then there is no reason to let Frye finish the year...bring in Quinn.....he's future of the franchise.
Charlie Frye is a Arena League qb playing for a NFL team.
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Hey what about that completion precentage though???? I agree 100%. Fans of this team are still becoming emotionally attached to mediocre players because they like the familiarity. Frye can be a starter on this team right now but that window is closing as the talent around him improves. The sooner we move past him as our starter the better things will look for this team.
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Hey what about that completion precentage though????
I agree 100%. Fans of this team are still becoming emotionally attached to mediocre players because they like the familiarity. Frye can be a starter on this team right now but that window is closing as the talent around him improves. The sooner we move past him as our starter the better things will look for this team.
I don't understand the emotional attachment. Quite frankly, if you don't produce I want you gone cuz we don't need you hurting our team.
Sometimes I think Cleveland's infatuation with the underdog bites us in the butt.
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Legend
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whoever looks better in camp and preseason..
they should be our man...
even if its Quinn..
Vince Young helped the Titans out immensely (sp?).
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Ammo part of that is the fact that the fans love this damn team so much it sometimes blinds us to the facts.
I can name a ton of player since 99 that the fans had a hard time accepting the truth about. I hope that syndrome ends with Frye but the real proof will be when fans wake up to the fact that guys like Andra Davis are mediocre at best.
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Within 10-16 starts,you can tell if a qb has "it" or not......
Ummm,
Hall of Fame QB's
- Terry Bradshaw had 25 Total TD's, 46 INT's and 10 fumbles after his 1st 2 years
- Troy Aikman had 21 Total TD's, 36 INT's and 11 fumbles after his 1st 2 years.
- John Elway had 27 Total TD's, 29 INT's and 20 fumbles after his 1st 2 years.
- Dan Fouts had 15 Total TD's, 26 INT's and 6 fumbles after his 1st 2 years.
- Steve Young had 17 Total TD's, 21 INT's and 15 fumbles after his 1st 2 years.
Obviously you noticed that these guys didn't have 'it'. Even some of their teams noticed they didn't have 'it' and went in a different direction. Man I sure wish I could judge a players entire career after their first 10-16 starts.
- Charlie Frye had 18 Total TD's, 23 INT's, and 15 fumbles after his 1st 2 years
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Charlie Frye is a Arena League qb playing for a NFL team.
I would like to know why Frye is still on the Browns seeing that he's only a Arena Football level QB. What's that say about Savage's ability to bring in QB's, seeing that he brought in Frye, Anderson, Dorsey and Quinn? What's it say about the Browns other QB's if Frye actually starts for the 2nd consecutive year as the Browns QB? Does that make Anderson and Quinn, backup level Arena Football QB's?
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I can name a ton of player since 99 that the fans had a hard time accepting the truth about.
I have had that problem... 
William Green
Antonio Bryant
and now....
Charlie Frye
and posts like Mensa's make me keep believing in them too  ... you never know the talent you have with QB's... ask Tony Romo..
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your not the only one bud. dont beat yourself up over it
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Jeff Davidson, who took over as offensive coordinator with 10 games left, had no confidence in Frye. It was evident in the plays he called, and after leaving the Browns to be the offensive coordinator for the Panthers, Davidson said Frye is not good enough to be an NFL starter.
ouch
Yeah, that's what jumped out at me too. That and Savage talking about Anderson having a shot at starting... 
But then there's this:
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Davidson's prediction and the 24 turnovers aside, history suggests one season is too soon to give up on the 2005 third-round pick from Akron. Peyton Manning threw 26 touchdown passes and 28 interceptions as a rookie in 1998, and the Colts were 3-13. Troy Aikman played in 11 games as a rookie for the Cowboys in 1989 and 15 in 1990. He threw nine touchdown passes and 18 interceptions in 1989, and the Cowboys were 1-15. He was 11 up and 18 down in 1990, and the Cowboys were 7-9. Manning and Aikman got better when they gained experience and when the players around them got better.
Frye has amazing self-confidence. He loves football. He would be crushed if he is the third quarterback here after starting last season and is at least good enough to be a No. 2 QB on most teams.
Frye firmly believes he will start against the Steelers in the opener Sept. 9. He says he learned a lot under fire last season. He plans to stay in the pocket more instead of rolling out and turning his back on half the field.
"I think there are a lot of things I do differently (than last year)," Frye said. "The experience is probably the major thing. I want to make better decisions this year and just be more in control and not get flustered. I want to have command on the field. The experience from last year will help all that."
Crennel said Frye got stronger in the offseason.
Arguably, Frye deserves a chance to play with Steinbach and Thomas - and possibly LeCharles Bentley - in front of him and Jamal Lewis in the backfield.
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in 2006,he completed 252 passes for a paltry 2,454 yards..he couldn't average 10 yards a completion.
In Charlies case its kind of hard for your WR to get down field before your on your back.
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By comparison Jay Cutler stepped in after 10 games and looked like he belonged in the NFL.....1,000 yards 9 TDS and 5 INTS,88 qb rating
OMG you mean a QB can be successful with a good offensive line and a stellar ground game. 
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If the organization felt Charlie had what it takes,then why draft Brady Quinn?
I hated this pick. I think that CF can play ball---he just needs a running game and some protection. Several games last year we were ahead in the game going into the 4th, but we couldn't close out the game---you know why---because we could keep the ball on the ground and keep the clock running. Thats what you do with the lead---you run the ball and the clock.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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Frye may be able to play ball, but Quinn has sooooo much more potential in my mind, I think he can lead this team to where we need to be and the supporting cast is almost there.
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Mensa with some of these qbs,you are comparing 2 different eras which brings up 2 different approaches to the qb positions.......
Back in the 70's with guys like Bradshaw,Fouts, Anderson, Hart, Manning etc the window was more open as far a committment to a qb.
Now in this this era, you expect your qb to grasp the NFL game at alot faster rate then the qbs you mentioned.
You mentioned Troy Aikman as a example. Aikman actually progressed from year 1 to 2. In his 2nd year he attempted 103 more passes,but his INTS per attempt actually dropped.
Troy Aikman had the Cowboys knocking on the playoffs door at 7-7 before he got hurt.
In 6 games that year,Aikman directed 4th quarter drives to lead the Cowboys to victories......
Has Charlie done that? Nope.
You bring up John Elway.....In 1983,Elway threw for 7 TDS and 14 INTS....in 1984,he did 18 TDS and 15 INTS.....thats progression.......
Charlie Frye has not shown PROGRESSION. Even Steve Young showed some progression for a horrible Tampa Bay team.....enough that Bill Walsh wanted him on the 49ers.And Bill Walsh is one of the great judges of qb talent.
You are bringing up HOF's 1st 2 yrs in order to justify Charlie Frye's shortcomings on the field..I have seen the same from Tim Couch on this board.
As far as Phil Savage abilty to judge qbs.Before this year, the Browns had one of the worst QB stables in the NFL with Charlie Frye,Derek Anderson and Ken Dorsey in which neither of the 3 are capable of securing a NFL starting job....
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You bring up a valid point, but you also have to consider the teams playing around the QB. Stats aside, Frye had some good games against Oakland and Kansas City when the opposing pass rush cooled down a bit.
I'm not saying that Frye is the guy, nor do I carry some blind faith that he will succeed, but barring some magnanimous showing by Quinn or Anderson in TC, I think he should get the start until proven guilty this season.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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That one made me LOL. It would have been even better if Quinn was there and was allowed on stage like at another concert (forget who it was) this summer.
You can expect that all throughout the preseason and regular season, not just from me either.
Did Frye kill your dog or something?
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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Like I said,if Charlie Frye is the best qb coming out of camp,he should be #1 on the depth chart. If Charlie Frye is the starter for 16 games,that will probally only good things a) the line pass blocked well for him b) the Browns are a playoff team
But I believe any slow start for the Cleveland Browns offense will end Charlie Frye's era as a starter offically and bring in Brady Quinn....
If Frye does well this year,he will gain intrest from NFL teams. A win win for the Browns.
Charlie has a ton of courage,but at some point the mechanics of the position and ability to read a defense has to be very evident for 16 games and not a quarter here,a game there.
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I agree...and any slow start that Frye will have, I'm sure the fans will let the team know.
Brutal people those fans can be...
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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In 6 games that year,Aikman directed 4th quarter drives to lead the Cowboys to victories......
Has Charlie done that? Nope.
Do the Raiders count?
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In 6 games that year,Aikman directed 4th quarter drives to lead the Cowboys to victories......
Has Charlie done that? Nope.
Do the Raiders count?
No.
Especially since he almost lost it for us by throwing perhaps the DUMBEST INT I've ever seen into the endzone near the end of the game. It was worse than the game he blew vs. Baltimore. If the Raiders had anything resembling an offense, we would have lost.
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