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Charlie Frye has not shown PROGRESSION. Even Steve Young showed some progression for a horrible Tampa Bay team.....enough that Bill Walsh wanted him on the 49ers.
So Frye showed no progression and Young did? Their stats are almost identical. And how their teams drafted QB's after their 2nd year in the league was almost identical.
Tampa Bay went the route of Cleveland and drafted a QB out of a big Time college in the 1st round (Vinny Testaverde out of Miami (FL)), And traded away Steve Young. But somehow you turn that into, Steve Young was showing so much progression that Tampa Bay decided to draft a QB in the 1st round and trade away Steve Young. 
Frye
Year 1: 70.2 QB Rating - (98 of 164) - 1002 yards, 4 TD, 6 INT - 22 sacks, 60 rush yards, 1 TD, 7 fumbles
Year 2: 72.2 QB Rating - (252 of 392) - 2454 yards, 10 TD, 17 INT - 44 sacks, 215 rush yards, 3 rush TD, 8 fumbles
Total after 2 years: 71.6 QB Rating - (350 of 556) - 3456 yards, 14 TD, 23 INT - 66 sacks, 275 rush yards, 4 rush TD, 15 fumbles
Young
Year 1: 56.9 QB Rating - (72 of 138) - 935 yards 3 TD, 8 INT - 21 sacks, 233 rush yards, 1 rush TD, 4 fumbles
Year 2: 65.5 QB Rating - (195 of 363) - 2282 yards, 8 TD, 13 INT - 47 sacks, 425 rush yards, 5 rush TD, 11 fumbles
Total after 2 years: 63.1 QB Rating - (267 of 501) - 3217 yards, 11 TD, 21 INT - 68 sacks, 658 rush yards, 6 rush TD, 15 fumbles
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In 6 games that year,Aikman directed 4th quarter drives to lead the Cowboys to victories......
Has Charlie done that? Nope.
Do the Raiders count?
No.
Especially since he almost lost it for us by throwing perhaps the DUMBEST INT I've ever seen into the endzone near the end of the game. It was worse than the game he blew vs. Baltimore. If the Raiders had anything resembling an offense, we would have lost.
Yeah, the 2nd largest come from behind victory in Browns history shouldn't count. Especially since Frye threw 3 TD passes that game.
Come from behind victories Frye has lead.
2005 - Oakland
2005 - Baltimore
2006 - Oakland
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In 6 games that year,Aikman directed 4th quarter drives to lead the Cowboys to victories......
Has Charlie done that? Nope.
Do the Raiders count?
No.
Especially since he almost lost it for us by throwing perhaps the DUMBEST INT I've ever seen into the endzone near the end of the game. It was worse than the game he blew vs. Baltimore. If the Raiders had anything resembling an offense, we would have lost.
Yeah, the 2nd largest come from behind victory in Browns history shouldn't count. Especially since Frye threw 3 TD passes that game.
Come from behind victories Frye has lead.
2005 - Oakland
2005 - Baltimore
2006 - Oakland
Timid Couch had a bunch of come from behind wins...does that make him a good QB?
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Timid Couch had a bunch of come from behind wins...does that make him a good QB?
Just responding to your post? Am I not allowed to respond to you? Never said it made someone good or not.
I'm just amazed that some of you have the ability to judge a QB's career so fast.
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Tell me this Mensa, how many NFL franchises can Charlie Frye start for right now?
Tampa Bay before Tony Dungy got there was a joke of a franchise. Trading away Steve Young and drafting Vinny Testerverde is just one example of that.
tell me where Charlie Frye progresed in 2006? In some aspects he played as a rookie than his 2nd year.
By drafting Quinn,its crystal clear that they(Savage/Crenell) felt lost all faith in Frye.
Frye improve a whole 2.0 rating points from year 1 to 2 and Young improved
almost 9 points higher.
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Charlie Frye's career numbers don't lie. In 2006,he only had 2 starts where he through for more TDS than INTS.
As if that little factoid was the only measure of a QB..... You make it sound, wth that comment, that NOBODY else had a hand in that action,,, I guess when a ball goes through a wide receivers hands and into the arms of a defender,, it's the QB's fault right,,'
This my friends is why stats never tell the whole story accuratly.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Perhaps he wasn't pimping Quinn.. But frankly, it's only obvious to some. It's not obvious to me that Quinn is the future. I haven't even seen him throw a ball in the NFL yet!
So while it may be obvious that he's been PICKED to be the future, it's not a sure thing....
Well no kiddin'... 
Look...U can blow this any way u want D...The FACT remains...We made a VALIANT attempt at landing Quinn after Miami took Ginn (LMMFAO) at 9...ANYONE who woulda took the 2008 #1 pick woulda had a deal done...PERIOD...Dallas was the 1st taker...
This isn't a Couch/Holcomb deal...FAR FROM IT...
Of course the kid has to PROVE IT...Everyone does...But MARK MY WORDS...The fans at CBS will start the Quinn chant as soon as game TWO...And it will continue and continue and continue...Not because every pass Frye or Anderson throws is a duck but because the FAN KNOWS...They ain't STUPID...
BRADY QUINN IS THE FORESEEABLE FUTURE OF THIS TEAM...
Go Browns!!!
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In some aspects he played as a rookie than his 2nd year.
In all reality he was exactly that
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By drafting Quinn,its crystal clear that they(Savage/Crenell) felt lost all faith in Frye.
I am not really sure you can read this like that. Frye was a decent selection where they got him. If he panned out..... great. He showed some grit and demonstrated that he can be a solid back-up at the very least. The browns drafting BQ was a product of what happened in the draft. Drafting another Qb wasnt as much a indicator that the browns bailed on Chuck as much as it was they had an opportunity to get a Qb they felt could be the franchise.
They didn't draft Charlie to be the franchise.
They drafted him because they needed a Qb and at that slot he was the best on their board when they picked......and they could afford to take a chance on an intangible QB at that time.
I really don't believe Frye was mean drafted to be the Qb of the future. I think he was brought on board to see what they could get out of him over his career.
Clearly he can do good things on the field.....but I do think he demonstrated that he has some flaws that he needs to workout. And that has nothing to do with a running game, or an offensive line. He has the kind of habits that are hard to break at this stage of the game. He can be a good back-upon a very good team.
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Damon you are right,it wasn't all Charlie's fault.WR's and TE's not running precise routes and freelancing. Dropped passes like you say..but what QB doesn't have WR's drop catchable balls?
But the truth is,Charlie Frye looked more like a rookie than a 2nd year qb in 2006.
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It was worse than the game he blew vs. Baltimore.
Yeah, I know what you mean.
I mean he called that silly play, he blew the protection, and he hit himself as he threw.
I'm with you brother. 
Blast Frye all you want. Don't be a jackass about it.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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It was worse than the game he blew vs. Baltimore.
Yeah, I know what you mean.
I mean he called that silly play, he blew the protection, and he hit himself as he threw.
I'm with you brother.
Blast Frye all you want. Don't be a jackass about it.
All he had to do was throw it to the blonde in the 3rd row in both games
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You should change your name to Wall.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Maybe he was trying to throw it to the blonde in the 3rd row against Baltimore. We'll never know since he got hit from behind. 
#gmstrong
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Damon you are right,it wasn't all Charlie's fault.WR's and TE's not running precise routes and freelancing. Dropped passes like you say..but what QB doesn't have WR's drop catchable balls?
But the truth is,Charlie Frye looked more like a rookie than a 2nd year qb in 2006.
Frye was not a rookie last year but he was a first year starter. You also can't accurately compare Cutler and Frye since they played on two different teams. Impact, you are manipulating the truth to make your point. Perhaps you are correct in assuming that Frye is not an NFL quality starter, but at this point it is only an assumption. Unless , of course, you have a crystal ball.
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This my friends is why stats never tell the whole story accuratly.
Actually, I think Impact may have a point.... ( I can't believe I actually said that...LOL )
Assuming Impact's stats are correct, he's looking at every game Frye played, not hand picking games, but looking at the whole season. Braybaby didn't mess up EVERY game.... well, maybe not...  The O-line didn't let EVERYONE through, EVERY game.... Harrison didn't miss picking up the blitz in EVERY game... ( after it happened several times, he didn't play anymore...)
What my point is, there have been a lot of excuses made for Frye. Looking at each game separately, you can find individual turning points, that a Frye fan can use to shift the blame, to the O-Line, to missed blocks, to dropped passes....etc., but when you look at the season, as a whole, and see that Frye only had 2 games in which he had more TDs than INTs, you have only 2 people to blame.... Frye and Romeo. Frye for consistantly having more INTs than TDs, and Romeo for allowing the situation to continue.
I know.... Frye forced some balls he shouldn't have. Braybaby and Dropcutt caused some of the INTs by not holding onto the ball. Winslow and Braybaby caused problems by not running their routes. The O-LIne play wasn't good. The running game sucked.... All True.... We ALL used those same excuses, each and every game....
Problem is.... In the NFL, as in most sports, the team that wins is usually the team that makes the fewest mistakes. The TD to INT ratio, is a measure of those mistakes, and it is a QB stat, not a RB stat, not a WR stat, or a O-Line stat.
Some QBs have one or two, 4/5/6 INT games that can blow the TD to INT ratio out of proportion, but to have 2, out of 13 games, where Frye throws more TDs than INTs tells a totally different story....
As much as I hate to say it... Impact does have a point about Frye.... ( We really do need an icon that has someone gagging and getting sick....  )
The Cleveland Browns - WE KNOW QUARTERBACKS ( Look at how many we've had ... )
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You also can't accurately compare Cutler and Frye since they played on two different teams.
Not to mention that Cutler has great skills and is on his way to being a great NFL qb and Chuck isn't.
It' like comparing a Kentucky Derby thoroughbred with some swayback nag.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Cutler has a line called Fort Knox... lol... that just isnt fair to compare..
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Impact, With those receivers, that line and that running game, Payton Manning wouldn't look good either... I know that it's not a popular notion on this board, but I just don't think Frye is as bad as he looked at times last season.. I think there is plenty of blame to go around yet somehow, people keep trying to pin it all on Frye...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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I'm just amazed that some of you have the ability to judge a QB's career so fast.
I'm equally amazed that you can't see anything for yourself but need stats to try to back up every slant you have.
Fact is you can throw every stat you want out there..don't care..what I care about is what I see on the field..and if what I see doesn't perform consistantly and produce opportunites it's not worth debating..
Someone said Frye doesn't produce any fear in his opponents..thats a fact..the Steelers said as much last year..no defense in the NFL is worried about Frye beating them with his brain or his arm..
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 07/23/07 09:15 AM.
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Assuming Impact's stats are correct
His stats may well be correct, I'm not going to argue those... What I'm saying is that the stats are MIS LEADING. If you look at the stats, it says Frye kinda sucks.. Maybe he does, but for crying out loud,, to hold those stats up and say he sucks simply because of them leaves out one important ingrediant,,, He wasn't the only guy on the field for the Browns.. There were 10 others and nobody is allowing for thier ineffective play..
So, once again, STATS simply don't tell the whole story......
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Someone said Frye doesn't produce any fear in his opponents..thats a fact..the Steelers said as much last year..no defense in the NFL is worried about Frye beating them with his brain or his arm..
Would Brett Favre produce fear in his opponents with our line, RB's and Receivers? Probably not! So I'm not sure that is a valid argument AD..
As for Stats and them not telling the whole story, I can't agree more.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Would Brett Favre produce fear in his opponents with our line, RB's and Receivers? Probably not! So I'm not sure that is a valid argument AD..
It is valid..a defense would know what skills Farve possesses..and those skills could hurt you if he was able to converge on a play..
Thats what I'm talking about.
No defense is going to worry about Frye going deep or exploiting their zones if he doesn't have the zip or ability to read the coverage.
I know on a lot of passing downs other QB's would have had the ability to make a play when Frye couldn't.
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It is valid..a defense would know what skills Farve possesses..
I suppose we can debate this until the cows come home,, But I happen to think it's isn't valid,, Favre scares people, sure he does, but with Nobody that is reliable to catch the ball, with No Running game,, and the line being weak, Teams are gonna say,, hey, the only guy we have to worry about is Favre.... let's just Blitz on every down.... (nobody would actually do that I suppose, but they would key on him heavy and make the lesser quality guys try and beat them)
So, here we are, in complete disagreement Isn't life grand 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Teams are gonna say,, hey, the only guy we have to worry about is Favre.... let's just Blitz on every down.
Oh o.k..it's just that cut n dry....BTW thats what a lot of teams did to Frye.
They weren't afraid of him hitting a open man for a big gain.
I'm sure you'll say we never had a open man huh?
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I for one am hoping that Frye is on the team to stay. He's a safe bet and as such has value for the team. Maybe Quinn will win the starting job. Maybe Quinn will get hit by a piece of falling space junk just seconds before taking his first starting snap. Who knows? Having a reliable, young, third round pick who has some starting experience and can take a beating is a very good thing.
Let them fight it out in camp. I'm betting experience trumps potential, especially for the first few games. It'll be interesting to see how the last few games of this season differ from the first few.
J.
"Let people think this is a dumpster fire," - Mike Pettine
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By drafting Quinn,its crystal clear that they(Savage/Crenell) felt lost all faith in Frye.
Didn't they draft Thomas with the #3 pick. Looks like the Browns were willing to go into 2007 with either Frye or Anderson as their QB. It just so happend that Quinn kept free falling so they picked him up.
Here's some more information for you. Since it's so easy for you to judge players after "10-16 starts".
Vinny Testaverde
Year 1: 5 TD's --- 6 INT's -------- 43% completion % ----- 60.2 QB Rating
Year 2: 13 TD's --- 35 INT's ----- 47% completion % ---- 48.8 QB Rating
Wow, I guess according to you Vinny Testaverde will never amount to anything in the NFL. He wasn't playing like an All-Pro in his 1st 2 years. His #'s weren't as good in year #2 as they were in year #1. I guess he'll never make a Pro-Bowl. He'll never throw for 45,000+ yards in his career. He'll never end up with a positive TD to INT ratio. I guess you'd be wrong on all 3 accounts.
Vinny didn't have a positive TD to INT ratio until his 7th year in the league when he joined the Browns.
I'm really amazed how some of you can judge an entire career after a few starts. It's going to be sad on here if Brady Quinn starts his career off like Testaverde because some of you will call him a flop after 10 starts and then start demanding that he be cut or traded.
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Didn't they draft Thomas with the #3 pick
Do you need a stat to show that?
Looks like the Browns were willing to go into 2007 with either Frye or Anderson as their QB.
No they weren't..they knew what mattered the most..what was most glaring.
Fact is IF THEY WERE SO WILLING they would not have traded their # 1 pick next year to take him, they would have held on to that pick for next season.
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Cutler has a line called Fort Knox... lol... that just isnt fair to compare..
It isn't fair no matter the basis point you want to use.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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I'm sure you'll say we never had a open man huh?
Nope, I'm pretty sure we had plenty of open men out there... Frye had problems getting the ball to them at times and other times they had problems catching the ball,,
Look, I'm not trying to be Pro Frye to the exclusion of all else. It's just that I hate unfair comparisons... Some on here think that it's all Fryes fault,, and it's just not true. like I've said, there is plenty of blame to go around.
And when you talk about not fearing anyone,.,, you pick out Frye,,, That's probably true,,, But in reality, I doubt any team feared our total Offense including out OC... so again, it's not all Frye as some would want you to believe...
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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We were so set at QB we tried to trade up to #1 to get Russell and as soon as Quinn made it past the Dolphins we started making calls to get Quinn.
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Just Clicking
General response to all:
Sometimes on this board and others, if you take a stance such as I've taken that not all the problems are because of Frye, some on here take that to mean I am Pro Frye...
I'm Pro the Cleveland Browns,, Make no mistake about that... Anyone who takes the field in a Browns Uni is who I root for 24/7. (my guess is that's the same for all of us)
But geez, just because I pointed out an inequity in some of the comments, don't get the wrong Idea..
I DON'T CARE WHO OUR QB IS NEXT SEASON,,, AS LONG AS HE IS THE BEST GUY WE CAN FIND AND HE WINS THE JOB FAIR AND SQUARE.
I hope that made it clear,,,,
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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And when you talk about not fearing anyone,.,, you pick out Frye
Who else runs the offense?
If you don't fear the starter, you stuff the running game and make him beat you..or himself.
It's really that simple.
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Geez attack, you leave absolutly no room in your thinking that someone else might be responsible for a bad play,., it's always the QB in your thinking,,,,
That's just not right! Like I said, we are not going to agree on this,,,,,
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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you leave absolutly no room in your thinking that someone else might be responsible for a bad play
ONLY YOU think that, which is illogical since in other posts I busted out other players who screwed up as bad.
I'm strickly talking about the QB, the one who has to get the ball to other people, remember?
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and if the other people don't catch it,,, or fumble it or get no where with it, it's the QB's fault I suppose... Geez
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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No..I said the opposing D's will stuff the run and force Frye to beat them.
I'm not talking about if the reciever runs the wrong route or drops the ball..
A defense knows if his opponent has the skills to beat them...or if he can be tricked easily..
All you gotta do is look at the QB himself..U ought to do that Menza instead of running to NFL.com for a stat..
Look at what he does...can he make the throws?
Does he get the ball to his man and with a throw that only the WR can catch?
Does he make good decisions?
Is he a leader on the field?
Can he read defensives and sense blitzes?
One of my beefs against Frye is slow reaction time.
His ability to process information quickly is what I feel is his Achillies to this point. That quality is the most improvable over time.
There is no telling if he will ever become good enough at reading and reacting to be a quality starter.
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 07/23/07 01:10 PM.
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Man, I guess if we had Peyton Manning on last years team we would have won the Super Bowl. Just about all the flaws on the team were because of Frye.
It didn't matter that we had one of the worst defenses in the NFL last year. Thanks for notifying me that football is an individual sport and not a team sport.
If only we had Rex Grossman. He's the reason why Thomas Jones and Cedric Benson could run the ball. He's the reason the Bears averaged 44% more rushing yards per game than our Browns. If Frye was on the Bears, Jones an Benson would have been stuffed at the line of scrimmage every play and Grossman would have opened things up for Droughns to run for 1600 yards. Grossman puts fear in opposing teams and Frye doesn't, that's the main reason the Bears were a much better running team.
Grossman proved how the game of football is decided by the QB. With QB Ratings of 1.3 and 10.2 in wins, he showed us how important the QB is to a team.
I always thought football was a team game, but thanks for straighting me out. Now I know it's purely dependent on QB play.
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,103
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,103 |
I think that before training camp has even started, I officially loathe all three of the QB's. I'm so tired of this debate.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,961
Legend
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OP
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,961 |
BigC,, I'm inclined to agree with you 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,103
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,103 |
It's just every thread goes the same way.
Someone says Frye sucks and couldn't get it done.
Someone counters that Anderson was better.
Obscure stat about Anderson/Frye.
Someone talks about Quinn being the most pro ready.
Someone calls Frye a dumb hick.
Someone links to an article that talks about Anderson leading the pack so far.
Diam make a 3 page post with every third letter capitalized.
Someone says Frye has gotten a raw deal.
Someone talks about Quinn's contract status.
The only man left to pimp is Ken Dorsey.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Article on Browns QB's (plain
dealer)
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