DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Kizer rnd. 4

Stick with Kizer. He will be The Guy.

If these issues about Rosen are true, and I have no reason to believe they aren't, then I would pass on him. We don't need another Johnny Football here not to mention another wasted high 1st round pick. Our FO has a lot of research and work to do.

I swear to God that this board consistently backs the wrong people time after time after time.

Does that mean you are down with Rosen, Vers? I haven't gone to school on these guys yet (and I don't claim to be n expert), but I want a disciplined guy who will really study film. Wentz was that guy coming out. Mayfield does not seem like that type, and this buzz about Rosen could be worrisome.
I am going back and forth on Kizer. He is smart, has size and talent and I see leadership. He is inaccurate, but his receivers are awful and maybe he can take that huge step that Goff and Wentz took. He played well today, for a rookie.

Thats comical coming from the master of not only AVOIDING things that dont push your agenda but ALSO JUST MAKING CRAP UP ... see earlier today on Watsons injury ... according to U it somehow made it MORE ACCEPTABLE cause he did in practice as opposed to in a game ... ... like i said .. the CRAP YOU’LL MAKE UP ...

PS. What stats did i comment on FROM TODAYS GAME? ... umm .. that would be EXACTLY ZERO .. ...

I’ll WATCH THE GAME and then I’ll comment ... one time when i did turn over ... he threw what may have been his 3rd but it was DROPPED ...

One of the MANY MANY DIFFRENCES between U and I ...

I don’t IGNORE/HIDE or RUN from the TRUTH to support diddly ... i tell the TRUTH ... u one the other hand ..,

Like here ... once again ... WHAT STAT DID I COMMENT ON FROM TODAY GAME? ...

THATS WHO U ARE SWISH ...

Now go ahead .. call me a PIECE OF CRAP and TRASH again ... thats usually your fall back when you have NO WHERE ELSE TO GO!!!!

Agreed. Rosen and Mayfield would both be off my draft board until I felt confident I knew them well enough to put them on.

What scares me about Rosen is the reports are coming from everywhere. NFL, his own team mates and coaches and analysts. At least with Mayfield, his issues are known but everyone who knows him has his back.

I was amazed to see that after Mayfield was punished for grabbing his junk, losing his captaincy, his fellow captains took his jersey out to the coin toss - defiant of their coaches to show that Mayfield will always be a captain to that team. That level of respect for a fellow player is exceptionally rare. If that was any other player, it would be touted as an example of his clear leadership qualities and the respect he commands. Meanwhile, Rosen's team mates are calling him a know-it-all pr#ck? Ouch.

Fingers cross the front office does some extensive research. On the bright side, Kizer is showing something. If that continues, we've got options.

https://sports.yahoo.com/oklahoma-captains-take-baker-mayfields-jersey-coin-toss-211919416.html

If you feel like doing so, please elaborate on kizer's game today. I'm sure you're not convinced he can ever be a good post-snap reader of a defence, but feel free to offer more. I respect your QB opinion a tonne, man.

again, i didn't make anything up.

it's also funny that you assumed i didn't watch the game. did you know i have nfl package?

no, you didn't, cause you assumed i didn't watch the game.

ill continue posting opinions based on hard evidence while you continue looking like a fool who assumes too much.

It's early Big G!

Here is my thought process:

I have always had a hard time w/taking guys at the top of the draft w/out knowing whether or not they can read defenses post snap and if they can go through progressions quickly enough. I've never said they couldn't.......I just say "we don't know." And it's a gamble to take a guy at the top of the draft if you don't know.

I've pimped 3 QBs in recent years. Luck, Teddy, and now Rosen. The reason is I saw all of them make those post-snap reads in college. Thus, there is no question. And I think that ability is probably the most important thing a qb can do, even trumping accuracy---which is also huge.

I saw Rosen look safeties off. I saw him read the field. I saw him going through progressions. I was impressed. I also like his elite arm strength. I like how he stood in the face of the rush and deliver the ball accurately even though he knew he was going to get drilled. I love how accurate he is. He leads guys perfectly and they get a ton of YAC, provided they don't drop it. LOL

I think he has elite skills. I will leave it up to the FO to do the proper background checks. But, knowing us........I can see us passing on this guy and drafting a flash player at qb. Hell, our FO might even trade the pick to a team who needs a qb, kinda like we did w/Philly a couple of years ago. And in my opinion, that would be a mistake.

I thought Kize had a very good game. I thought he was way more accurate than he has been in previous games. I'm not seeing him making many audibles that lead to big plays, other than when he audibles to a qb sneak.

I thought he was a bit slow w/his reads again. I do think he was quicker w/releasing the ball when he saw his primary receiver open.

I really am not confident in replying to how well he was reading the post-snap reads. I would just be speculating or making things up and I am not comfortable doing that. I wish I had that All 22 or whatever it was called. If I did, I could give you a better picture because it's all there.

Sorry bro.......not trying to dodge the question, but I'm just not sure.

As usual .. NO ANSWER TO my question on your ORIGINAL CLAIM ...

Why’s that oh MASTER OF SPIN ... ...

We both know ...

Also ... this last ATTEMPT TO DEFLECT IS PURE BS ... once again ... its all u GOT

Please go ahead and show where I said U DIDNT WATCH THE GAME ...

I said .. I’LL WATCH THE GAME ... then I’ll comment ... but you have no where else to go so you DEFLECT Mr. Alinsky ... DEFLECT DEFLECT DEFLECT ..

Go ahead ... i’ll Be waiting for u to show me where i posted any stat on mitch from todays game or where i said u didn’t watch the Bears game ...

Its a rhetorical question ... I NEVER SAID EITHER ... just more of the SAME OLD BS FROM U ...

Guess you won’t call me a PIECE OF TRASH or CRAP in here ... that takes one of your outs away .... ...

He played a very good game for him today ... very good ... his best yet ...

Just like i didn’t get to high after the Lions game or to low after the Jag game ... i won’t get giddy over this ...

Its one game ... hes getting better ... thats all we can ask for ...

one thing I HATED TODAY was him according to the announcer saying he has to be more aggresive at the end of runs ... ummm ... then he went out and had multiple opportunities to slide and did only once ... he can’t keep absorbing those hits ...

HE SIMPLY CAN’T ... that was a dumb ass statement and dumb as hell he actually didn’t slide but once today ...

odd because i didn't deflect or spin. i dunno what you're laughing about, unless you're laughing at your own posting style.

trust me, others are laughing with you.

anyways, you assumed others haven't watch the game only because they are posting stats. you once again assumed people are only posting stats and not the context of said stats, and that only makes you look ridiculous because of it.

i don't care if you haven't watched the game or not, as that wasn't even why i replied to you. i replied to you because you keep harping on this "stats are for losers" nonsense when stats provides a baseline discussion into the context of what happened on the field.

you missed that point, just like you missed a lot of other things. i don't have to call you trash or a piece of crap, because you represent that plenty all on your own. you're the one who decided to live up with the label, so i'm glad you're embracing it.

1+1= 2.

To be fair, even when you see QB prospects that go through pre/post snap reads (even in a pro-style offense) in college doesn't mean it will translate to the NFL.

There are many factors to evaluating college prospects and not all the traits carry equal weight and not all traits transfer from college to the NFL.

Evaluation is a tricky puzzle.

ed, I try to be very "fair" when evaluating qbs.

Is asking rhetorical questions that pose wildly hyperbolic exaggerations how you attempt to have a discussion?

Being used in the run-game isn't the same things as being a "running" QB. And oh btw....all QBs, all players in the NFL get injured.

The WR corps that Kizer has played with is bad. I didn't think that point would warrant debate. I wonder about anyone who can't objectively conclude the WRs have been bad.*shrugs*

Let's try to have a discussion without resorting to the usual needlessly snarky semi-insulting back and forth that's been going on more and more here.

Let's not lose perspective when making our assessments. Kizer is a very raw rookie QB and through no fault of his own is starting games when he should be watching and learning. But because there isn't a viable veteran QB as a placeholder Kiser is forced to start on a team devoid WR talent. It's not like he's Blake Bortles a 4th year QB playing in great situation that is still struggling.

Look; we can agree to disagree on accuracy. But please spare me the whole stating your opinion as fact bit. It's not much of a discussion when you state your opinion as fact. Are you at least gonna back your opinion stated as fact up with anything?

I'm not saying Kizer is Drew Brees. There is no doubt that he misses throws. But the question you need to ask yourself when it comes to accuracy (that most people don't) is...does the prospect miss more throws then 'average'.

For a frame of reference would you say that it is fact that Trubisky is grossly INACCURATE also? Where would you rank Rothlisberger in your personal accuracy hierarchy?

I made the mistake of taking u at your word ... ..

Bye Bye Swish ... once again ... NO ANSWERS and a total WASTE OF TIME .. par for the course ...

Now you’ve WIDENED and EXPANDED your initial words to make a FLIMSY ASS ATTEMPT at answering the question ...

Go make up BS for the long hanging fruit that U can confuse with your BS ... I prefer to have convo’s/debates/arguments with folks that don’t make up crap to cover their asses or to fit their agenda ...

I know who u are Swish ...

BYE BYE from this thread ...

Seems like your upset U can’t bait me in the political forum so now your moving over here to try ...

why are you still talking? and the political forum has nothing to do with this, so why do you constantly bring that angle up in football threads?

I know who you are as well.

Kizer looked better. Still a bit slow, but better is a good thing. Let's hope it contimues.

My question is can he improve enough to prevent us from selecting a QB in the first round?

Do we take a chance that he will improve much the same way that Wentz and Goff improved from season 1 to season 2?

Who is going to make that call, because it is a important call? The ideal would be we roll with Kizer. We could trade out of # 1 to drop 3-4 slots, get a good pick and get a great player to help bolster the O. Then we have the Houston pick wherever that ends up.

My hope is that with the addition of Gordon we will have better receivers on the field. That will open the run game and maybe, just maybe we will see Kizer start to bloom.

A few weeks ago I didn't think Kizer stood a chance. He has had a few games where he has at least flashed a little. That gives me hope.

No. If we are in the #1 spot, you draft the best QB. It appears it's going to be Mayfield or Rosen at the point.

No matter what Kizer shows the rest of the season, if the Browns see a QB they really love, take him. Two good QBs is a good problem to have.

Continuity since 1999. Just saying.

This Kizer situation is turning out to be exactly what I was afraid of. Kizer is doing just enough to show glimpses that he may be good, but not exactly lighting things up. We draft a qb with a 1st round pick and Hugh decides to start Kizer next year, who will go into every game looking over his shoulder with fans chanting the new guy's name every time he throws an incompletion. We bring the new guy in, and if he doesn't perform at a high level right off the bat we're back with the same question marks and people taking sides like we've had since forever. We'll have young kids battling it out with no veteran qb leadership

You draft a qb #1 because you expect him to be the man. You draft a qb like Kizer to see if he develops his way into the position. It's like we'll have the worst of both worlds if this scenario plays out.

you don't lead the league in turnovers and not have competition. I think until you know 100% you have a franchise QB, you keep drafting them until you feel comfortable with them. With Kizer's propensity to turn it over, especially in the redzone, combined with his inability to score in the redzone and still misses alot of throws. You draft one, let them battle it out.. If a guy is a franchise guy, you usually can tell pretty quick if he's got the tools. I think year two is a great indicator if they are able to play at this level, Goff is a perfect example, didn't look that great year one, year two, with the right staff in place he's shining. But beyond opening that can of worms on whether or not Hue is the right guy (I don't believe he is) all things being equal, take a QB to compete. Kizer was drafted in the second, he shouldn't have to bear the weight of the franchise. Draft the guy that will

Look on the bright side. Josh is coming back and Kap is still avail.

I repaired that for you.

jfanet,

Before, I would have agreed with you. There are a couple of things that are different this year vs previous years, though.

1- The QB class. As of now, this offseason looks like the perfect time to really address the QB situation. The guys that will probably come out in the draft look really good, the guys that are scheduled to hit FA are looking really good. How many times have we had the ammo to get the guy that wasn't there (poor draft/FA years)?

2- We have the ammo. We got the dollars, and we got the draft picks. If we were short on either, then I would be more hesitant, but we aren't. After all this time failing to land a franchise QB, let's make sure it happens this time. Don't get cute.

Did you really say this?

Deshone "he embodies what a professional is" Kizer

LOL - good stuff

Adding a 3rd to this list...

3. There isn't really a Myles Garrett in this draft who has the talent to force a BPA consideration. Of course, Saquon Barkley looks like an elite running back prospect, but I'm not a fan of drafting running backs high, particularly when that running back will split reps with Duke Johnson.

Don't get me wrong, there is plenty of non-QB talent that will be an asset to any team, but none that so clearly overrule our need to get QB right.

Kizer vs rookie. I really don't care who it is - just let Hue make the decision and take his guy. Down the line, one is certainly going to have trade value.

I was quoting Joe Thomas.



http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000...professional-is

The last two games included Jacksonville. That was not a good game for Kizer.

If Kizer lays a turd against the Bolts, which is a good possibility due to his inconsistent nature, the consensus will once again be there is no hope for him.

The guy just doesn't have the "it" factor for me to build a Franchise around.

Too soon to tell.

Agreed. Kizer is essentially in his Junior year of college on a professional team. A lot of his issues are correctable and will be fixed this offseason and with more reps /film. We are watching a QB mature on the fly.

kizer should be the guy that beats out our next draft and free agency...it should be people beating out starters that make the team better.

we always get rid of players and pretend that the people under them are upgrades

always