On a positive note, PFF gave Garrett, Kizer and Tretter the highest grades so far from players at their respective positions. All graded higher than 90, which is an elite grade.
On a positive note, PFF gave Garrett, Kizer and Tretter the highest grades so far from players at their respective positions. All graded higher than 90, which is an elite grade.
And yet we have no talent....
Not a talent problem.
Its an experience and coaching problem...
It's both, and all of the above.
We have talent - in places. We don't have enough everywhere, and those places where we are lacking are major liabilities (secondary, WR's most notably). Beyond that, we don't have enough talent playing with enough consistency to overcome a combination of lack of talent in other areas and the occasional mistakes, be it players or coaching (mostly players), and God forbid we have an injury, we have precious few areas where we have depth of talent.
Add in the youth and inexperience and you have what we have. The good news is that we're getting that thing you get right after you needed it: experience. We're also learning and growing from our mistakes. Penalties are down, even with the phantom calls that screwed us today. We're getting some consistency and rhythm with the offense. Talent will be added in the offseason; the guys drafted in Year 1 will be 3rd year vets.
It's a bumpy road, but we're getting there.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
On a positive note, PFF gave Garrett, Kizer and Tretter the highest grades so far from players at their respective positions. All graded higher than 90, which is an elite grade.
And yet we have no talent....
Not a talent problem.
Its an experience and coaching problem...
It's both, and all of the above.
We have talent - in places. We don't have enough everywhere, and those places where we are lacking are major liabilities (secondary, WR's most notably). Beyond that, we don't have enough talent playing with enough consistency to overcome a combination of lack of talent in other areas and the occasional mistakes, be it players or coaching (mostly players), and God forbid we have an injury, we have precious few areas where we have depth of talent.
Add in the youth and inexperience and you have what we have. The good news is that we're getting that thing you get right after you needed it: experience. We're also learning and growing from our mistakes. Penalties are down, even with the phantom calls that screwed us today. We're getting some consistency and rhythm with the offense. Talent will be added in the offseason; the guys drafted in Year 1 will be 3rd year vets.
It's a bumpy road, but we're getting there.
I agree with the last few posters on this thread. We have the youngest team in the NFL and it's showing. This FO has settled on a plan and I think they are carrying it out. Check out the below article.. I think we are all going to have to exhale, relax and show some patience.. it's a good for me to read this and remind myself to be patient. I see some encouraging signs of growth. I think I'm leaning towards retaining everyone that we can as far as FO and coaches go..
Browns have the NFL’s youngest roster, by far Posted by Michael David Smith on September 14, 2017, 1:32 PM EST
Getty Images The youth movement in Cleveland is afoot.
According to data distributed by the NFL today, the average age of the Browns’ 53-man Week One roster was 24.17 years. That makes Cleveland by far the youngest roster in the NFL. The next-youngest roster is nearly a year per player older: The Rams are the second-youngest team with an average age of 25.11 years.
When the new brain trust took over in Cleveland a year and a half ago, getting younger was a major part of the plan. And the youth movement shows no sign of slowing down, as the Browns have two first-round draft picks in 2018 (their own and Houston’s), as well as three second-round picks (their own, Houston’s and Philadelphia’s).
The Browns have gone 1-16 since the new brain trust took over, but the goal was never to win in 2016 and 2017. The goal was to build a team that could compete for a Super Bowl in 2019 or 2020. It remains to be seen whether that can happen, but the Browns should have a whole lot of players in their primes in a few years.
We are way too conservative in the redzone because Kizer is a turnover machine.
He didn't turn over anything today, did he? He threw a beautiful pass to the endzone today that was dropped. Didn't he?
Exception not the rule. Kizer has been historically record setting bad in the turnover department. But I do think eventually you have to see if he’s learned
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
We are way too conservative in the redzone because Kizer is a turnover machine.
This is spot on.
The playbook shrinks way down in the red zone because Kizer is overwhelmed.
We are better trying to score from 25+ yards out.
It was a noticeable difference in the game today between the two teams.
I just don't think there is any way Kizer can show enough between now and the end of the year to pass on a QB, especially if the Browns are drafting at #1.
j/c: I see guys like device are here blaming the coaching again, but I don't want to get into that crap. Here are my thoughts on this game:
--Kizer played well. He got rid of the ball on time more than usual. He wasn't going through progressions, but he was more decisive w/his first read. He was also way more accurate in this game. He held the ball too long at times, but he is a rookie. Overall, I was encouraged.
--Crow and Duke were outstanding. These two guys played awesome and gave us a nice combination in both the running and passing game.
--Bitonio had a couple of sensational blocks. Tretter did, too. Although he did have one huge blunder.
--Coleman was awful. Blocked down when Zeiitler had the guy and totally let the edge blitzer go. Had multiple penalties. Looked slow w/his lateral movement.
--Coleman made some nice plays at WR. That was nice to see.
--Coleman and Louis dropped easy completions.
--The game plan on offense was outstanding. We were really mixing it up. Good utilization of the running game, deep passes, and underneath stuff.
--Gonzalez missed another kick.
--Myles w/yet another sack.
--Shelton did not look as good today.
--The punk Mixon slashed us. That really troubled me.
--Third game in a row where our "great" run D didn't look very good.
--Our D blew it. We scored and got back in the game. We desperately needed a stop. Our D gave up a long scoring drive. I bet the Rams are glad they have Wade Phillips instead of the cheater.
--I thought McCourty's coverage was good. I just think that Green is great. I didn't like the signing, but McCourty is playing very well. Good signing by the FO.
--Peppers played his best game today. It wasn't great or even very good......but, it was an improvement.
--The call of him hitting a defenseless receiver was as bad as it gets! I hardly ever complain about the officiating and even hate when posters go off on it, but man, that was as lame of a call as I've seen in awhile. I thought it was an excellent play by Peppers.
--I will say Peppers seems like a weird guy, though. Not sure why he was celebrating after Mixon ran him over????
--BBC had a pick 6, but he dropped it.
--Nassib is too weak on the DL. He better bulk up. If not, he will be gone. He gets pushed around too much.
--I think we should have won this game. We are just so inexperienced and we make so many critical bone headed plays.
--My son was over. He is a Squeeler fan, so he isn't biased for Cleveland. But, we were talking about how obvious it was how hard these guys are playing for Hue and how incredible that is. This team has not won a game this year and only one in the last two years, yet these guys continue to fight hard for their coach. That is remarkable!
Next week against the Bolts pass rush ... we’ll see how he does ...
I'd like to see Hue pull a Lazor next week. Lazor absolutely owned Williams today. It was embarrassing for Williams. It was like he knew what Williams was going to call 75% of the time.
The Bolts are going to come after Kizer. I'd like to see what Hue dials up.
--My son was over. He is a Squeeler fan, so he isn't biased for Cleveland. But, we were talking about how obvious it was how hard these guys are playing for Hue and how incredible that is. This team has not won a game this year and only one in the last two years, yet these guys continue to fight hard for their coach. That is remarkable!
My son was over, and he's a Packers fan. We were talking about how much young talent there is on the team and how the FO has a done a good job of acquiring the young talent.
--My son was over. He is a Squeeler fan, so he isn't biased for Cleveland. But, we were talking about how obvious it was how hard these guys are playing for Hue and how incredible that is. This team has not won a game this year and only one in the last two years, yet these guys continue to fight hard for their coach. That is remarkable!
My son was over, and he's a Packers fan. We were talking about how much young talent there is on the team and how the FO has a done a good job of acquiring the young talent.
::
*LOL* ....
Sorry Vers ... but that was funny ...
Almost as good as the spelling/grammer ....................................... smack he laid down on me ...
Okay.......that's fine. But, I made a ton of football points and they were all ignored. Most of this thread is full of whining and crying. Very little football talk.
Did the Browns give up a red zone td on the playfake with a late release by the tight end again!?! Two weeks in a row, the exact same play. That really ticks me off. I expect to see these guys learn from mistakes not repeat them.
1. So tired of seeing us blitz and not get there. Like ever. 2. So tired of seeing us try fade passes in the end zone. They literally never work.
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Jeudy is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Tillman is flanked out wide to the right. Judkins and Ford are split in the backfield as Flacco takes the snap ... Here we go."
Next week against the Bolts pass rush ... we’ll see how he does ...
I'd like to see Hue pull a Lazor next week. Lazor absolutely owned Williams today. It was embarrassing for Williams. It was like he knew what Williams was going to call 75% of the time.
Second time we've played this year. So he probably did. Lazor knows the Talent, injuries and depth and he knew the limitations that set on Williams. Schemed accordingly.
Question to the brain trust ? .. You are backed up on your own 10 yard line , it's third and long , your LT has been having problems all day ' Wouldn't you leave a TE end in to help , or just take the sack ??
--Peppers played his best game today. It wasn't great or even very good......but, it was an improvement.
--The call of him hitting a defenseless receiver was as bad as it gets! I hardly ever complain about the officiating and even hate when posters go off on it, but man, that was as lame of a call as I've seen in awhile. I thought it was an excellent play by Peppers.
--I will say Peppers seems like a weird guy, though. Not sure why he was celebrating after Mixon ran him over????
How is that a good play... He was in position,could have tackled the WR and make a play to the ball,instead he chooses to lower his eyes and throw himself, go to the helmet spear hit....
Clear Helmet to Helmet contact, and indeed a good call, but most of all unnecessary, and an example of why Peppers is a IMHO a disappointment, he persists in doing the same mistakes over and over gain.
Don't like players who have no consideration for the other players careers and health, and are stupid to the point that they don't even protect themselves.
On the Mixton TD....why is he out of position, what is he trying to do there?
I know I am biased but he really makes is making it hard to like him.
Completely unaware of the game and only focused on himself, like just giving 15 or 20 yds in a play is something to celebrate...
How is that a good play... He was in position,could have tackled the WR and make a play to the ball,instead he chooses to lower his eyes and throw himself, go to the helmet spear hit....
Clear Helmet to Helmet contact, and indeed a good call, but most of all unnecessary, and an example of why Peppers is a IMHO a disappointment, he persists in doing the same mistakes over and over gain.
Don't like players who have no consideration for the other players careers and health, and are stupid to the point that they don't even protect themselves.
Helmet to spear hit? He hit the guy with his shoulder first........ Helmets are going to collide on every single play. There's nothing we can do about that. Peppers lead with his shoulder, not his helmet. He was running full speed to knock out the ball (and knock the player out of bounds).
We're not seeing the same thing here. There was no "spear"
Here's an example of a helmet to helmet hit by the Sith Lord himself, James Harrison
EDIT: The youtube video isn't working on the site. But it's the one when Harrison decided to Knockout Cribbs (same game he knocked out Massaquoi I think). That evil SOB shoulda been punched in the throat
Watch the vid,its clearly an helmet to helmet, and IMHO it was Peppers intention.
He's leading with the crown, IMHO, his intention is to hit the WR's helmet.
You could say its my judgment, but in this case it was the referee's judgment also, and a good one. He din't try to tackle and accidentally hit the helmet. IMHO he never intended to tackle the WR.
I know I'm in the minority, I never liked this plays or this type of players... I think its just stupid....
it's close IMO ... I do see where the crown hits the underside of the chinstrap ... it has to be a tad lower for me to think it's not a foul
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Jeudy is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Tillman is flanked out wide to the right. Judkins and Ford are split in the backfield as Flacco takes the snap ... Here we go."
That was not a good call ... his shoulder hit first ... it was helmet to helmet but he didn’t lead with his helmet ... he led with his shoulder witch caused his head to slightly move and caused it to hit the WR’s helmet ....
The ref f’d up calling it hitting a defenseless reciever ... not sure how that happenend ...
That call is a lot easier to make SITTING AT HOME WATCHING SLOW MO REPLAYS ... it’s much different in REAL TIME on the field when all U see is the head snap ...
IMO 5 years ago the NFL was by far the best officiated of the pro sports ... they started changing rules ... witch needed to be done for safety ... its made the officials job almost IMPOSSIBLE ... and it shows cause i now believe in 5 short years or so that it is now the worst officiated sport ... I dont believe thats the refs fault ... its just so damm hard ...
One of the problems is ... officials are graded on their tape ... there’s a saying amongst officials ... there goal is to “BEAT THE TAPE” ... ie: get the call right or your in trouble when u and your supervisor watch the tape ...
It used to be football officials almost always BEAT THE TAPE ... with the rule changes the grades have come down a lot because BEATING THE TAPE HAS BEEN MADE MUCH HARDER with the rule changes ...
Another thing is in the other two major sports .. the higher the level the easier it is to officiate .. in baseball and basketball the players skill level and knowledge makes it easier to officiate the higher up u go ....
In football thats not the case ... the SPEED of type game coupled with the LEGAL CONTACT makes it harder to officiate at the nfl level ...
Its a lot harder to officiate than u guys think ... its a hell a lot easier to officiate at home on your couch than when your on the field actually doing it ...
This was a BAD CALL ... the refs blew it ... i’m not defending them on this call even though it sounds like it ... *LOL* ...
That call is a lot easier to make SITTING AT HOME WATCHING SLOW MO REPLAYS ... it’s much different in REAL TIME on the field when all U see is the head snap ...
Agreed. IMO this should be reviewable or challengeable. Something.
I mean, that just straight up sucked.
The refs did a horrible job yesterday. Multiple times. The Jason McCourty Pass Interference Sucked. There was a long run where Garrett was being held (because he would have made the play if he wasn't) that resulted in a long gain that wasn't called.
All kinds of stuff.
And CBS Sucks too. Cause their replays suck. But that's another topic
That tape brings up another GREAT POINT ... from that angle it looks clearly like it was helmet to helmet ... the one we saw yesterday from a DIFFERENT ANGLE u saw his shoulder actually hit first ...
ANGLES ANGLES ANGLES .... its all about angles ...
From this angle .. u can see why the back judge or deep sideline official saw helmet to helmet ... u can see the HEAD SNAP bigtime ... and it looks like he did indeed lead with his head ...
I may have to re-think my initial assessment of weather they blew the call ... *L* ... another example of why its so hard to BEAT THE TAPE in football ...
not to change the subject ... but I shoulda went with Dalton Diam
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Jeudy is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Tillman is flanked out wide to the right. Judkins and Ford are split in the backfield as Flacco takes the snap ... Here we go."
I cant argue with a thing u said ... all u want is CONSISTENCY from a crew ... used to be u got it from the crews and the inconsistencies were from crew to crew ... they all have their reps ...
With some crews u could chuck all the way down the field ... with another crew they were more lenient with holding ... they all had there reps ..
TODAY .. theres inconsistency from play to play in almost all games ...
One play they’ll call a hold and on the next they’ll choose to let it go ...
One play they will call PI and on the next they won’t ...
U brought up two great examples ....
All teams get hurt by it ... when you lose a game it stands out more ... we’ve lost a lot of them ... *LOL* ...
I used to defend these guys ... and i believe their job is ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE with all the replays and different angles to prove them wrong ... but the inconsistency from play to play on the “easier” calls ... thats INDEFENSIBLE ...
The call on the field was "defenseless receiver" when the guy was taking his third step after the catch, which was clearly a bad call. It seems to me that the NFL is trying to initiate its own version of a "strike zone" from the shoulder pads down to just above the knee. How are two men of roughly equal height supposed to have a collision like the ones you have in football without some incidental contact of helmets? The targeting/spearing call should have some clear indication of intent or else it should not be called.
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