DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2017 NFL Season Looking Back: Browns 16 Bengals 30 Post Game Thoughts!

My post game thought - I didn't watch much of the game. I lose interest too soon anymore.

I am not sure the last time I saw an entire Browns game. Was at the stadium for opening day and saw the whole thing. I left the stadium early in week 4 during the embarrassing show against Cincy. I skipped the next two games entirely (TV, no more tickets this year. Not even if they were free). And I have not watched more than a half of any game since. No where near a quarter's worth more often than not. And I have been happier for it.

I was ready to watch this one, the entire thing. Then came the taunting call on our second drive. I was thinking to myself, WTF? We are 0-10. 1-25 going back to last season. We are down early to a bad team, better than us, but bad. We are driving and the drive gets stalled by a taunting penalty? Who are we to taunt anyone?

It hit me then that we are a good destination for Douche-Bag-er Mayfield. Why not? Let's fast forward. He has two more games, and most likely will be trotted out two more times by his coach/school for another insincere apology for his inappropriate/immature behavior. Then another tear-filled incident with the cops. Then he can start texting Jimmy about how he wants to "wreck this league."

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What for me is clear is that Peppers does not intend to tackle with the shoulder, he IMHO tries to hit him with the helmet.

He does not intend to tackle, although he has a good angle and position, he goes for the helmet hit, which is what I criticize in him, not in this play, but in most of his plays.

His shoulders, arms and hands position is revealing of his intentions

He first has to think about the tackle, and then about the highlight hit on the defenseless WR...

If Peppers doesn't lower his head it's a clean hit. As soon as he leads with the crown and the receivers head instantly snaps to the left at contact, the laundry is going to fly.

I’d agree with your old eyes ... mine have some wear and tear on them also ... *L* ...

The key there to the offical(s) is the head snap ...

Take a closer look at his arms....Referee was right on this one...

All and all we should be criticizing Peppers for choosing the highlight hit, instead of tackling and making a play on the ball...

That was my first question when i saw the article title .. WHEN did Hue get the explanation ... right after the play on the field or after the game ...

If it was during the game ... the ref screwed up what he said either because it was articulated to him wrong or he just had a brain fart ... BOTH HAPPEN ...

If it was after the game ... then its revisionist history .... problem is with the angle posted on here .. they have there out ... in this tape u can clearly see the helmet to helmet ...

They could have also called PI on the corner ... he clearly had him arm barred ... *LOL* ...

You can't lower your shoulder to make a "legal" hit without the head going along with it. They are connected, you know? Unless the NFL wants to institute a "form tackles only" policy where you must attempt to wrap both arms around a ball carrier, there is no avoiding helmet contact. Head-to-head contact is why they wear helmets at all.

Agree with that 100% ...

When you lower your shoulder your arms don't go high....

Tackle movement is completely different from throwing yourself to hit and have an highlight play.

Refs know what a tackle should be, and what a player does when he's looking to tackle, not to hit and injure the other player.

Sorry to be an ass on this one, but I don't like this type of plays... Think players should take care of themselves and the other guys if they can...

I also think tackles should only be celebrated when they are made behind the line of scrimmage or if they lead to a 4th down..

After giving up 15-20 yds, its just pathetic...

I don't think you're an ass, but I do disagree. The NFL's popularity was built on hits like that. I would bet there were quite a few hits like that yesterday with no call. Its the arbitrary nature of officiating that annoys me most, and feeds my occasional paranoia about the field not being level for the Browns.

Easy to say when the game is viewed in slow motion.

He's running at him full speed. If he did anything else, the Bengal player would have caught the ball and gone out of bounds (with a first down and the yards).


He made the only play he could make IMO. He's closing as fast as he can And it was a legal football play. If you think he's going to reach his arm around the guy and knock that ball out, I don't see it happening.

The Bengal player was catching the ball on the far side of the field. He took a step or two bobbling it. Peppers closed in on him, lead with his shoulder first, and knocked the ball out/the guy out of bounds.

Where is Joe " Turkey " Jones when yo need him !

Just my two cents. Not only do I think it was a clean hit (he led with his shoulder and hit him in the chest) I'm fairly certain the official who threw the flag did not have a clear line of sight and simply threw the flag based on the force of the blow and the movement of the WR's head. It was a call made on "looks" alone, and had nothing to do with the legality of the hit. Particularly unjust given the fact that one of our receivers was actually hit while defenseless and it wasn't called. I am sick and freaking fed up with the referees influencing games with their [censored] and blatant biases. Sick of it! JMHO.

Highlight hit? Is that what they call making a hard hit to try to separate a WR from the football these days? Used to call that football. I guess he should let him catch it and be satisfied with dragging him out of bounds 30 yards downfield. I agree with Vers, it's a ticky tack call.

One other post game thought.. I've been relatively supportive of Hue.. but on our second possession we get into the redzone and on first down, Treggs gets a freaking 15 yard TAUNTING call. Who the hell is he to be taunting anybody? He gets taken out for one play, then the next play he is right back on the field. IMHO, that's not holding him accountable. This team has trouble moving the ball and scoring, we were moving the ball and he sets us up with a 2nd and 25.. he should have sat for at least a couple possessions, sit him until the second half.. DO SOMETHING. Can we not live without him? Is Treggs and his 1 target, 0 catches that valuable? Sit his butt down and let him (and everybody else) know that kind of crap won't be tolerated.

I think Treggs realized what he did when Zane Gonzalez missed the field goal. I thought what Treggs did was on 2 or 3rd down though..............

The more blatant penalty on that play was Taylor holding the receiver's hand back prior to the ball getting there.

Ahmen to that. I'd have been happy to see Jackson order him to the locker room. If Gordons coming back cut Treggs.

I need Boddy to catch at least 1 of those deflections..

I didn't get the full field view, but 1 looked like it would have been a pick 6... until we can start making plays like that.. Coleman actually catching that pass in the endzone, we'll continue to struggle.

These are plays that cost POINTS. We need those to win.

Well, seeing that Treggs is better than Louis, Higgins, britt - I would not cut him.

Agreed. Treggs is young with some talent. Britt looks like he doesn't care. He made a couple plays yesterday, but that scene of him with the towel over his said in the first or second quarter really rubbed me the wrong way.

That guy should have been told to go to the locker room.



Biggest waste of money since Dwayne Bowe

I hardly ever complain about the officiating. I have even chastised posters who complain about the refs.

However, I watched that play several times on 70 in screen and there is no way in the world did Peppers hit a "defenseless receiver." Dude took 3 steps. He also did not lead w/his head. It was shoulder to chest, but the head-to-head was not even talked about. It was a "defenseless receiver."

I have been critical of Peppers. I criticize the Browns. But, that was a BS call. I actually thought it was Peppers' best play of the year.

And we even had James Loften......a HOF WR......calling the penalty BS!!!

I wanna mention the "Taunting" call, as well. I have no idea what our guy said, but both players were engaged w/one another. It was not as if our guy initiated the contact. Again, he may have said something, but are words more important than physical contact?

Depends on the words. I was upset about that too though. If I remember the play correctly, the Cincy guy was the first jawing and he initiated the contact.

But if Treggs used a racial slur or a gay slur, they're gonna throw the flag every time. I think that's the NFL's rule. Like it's a no question thing.

So in that sense, it's worse than physical contact

I have to agree that in today's NFL it is a penalty. Especially against the Browns but probably not against the Steelers or Patriots.

In no way do I think it was dirty. I also disagree that his responsibility at that moment is to make a sure tackle. At that moment Peppers main goal was to knock the ball out of the receivers hands and ensure an incomplete pass. I feel that he attempted to lead with the shoulder and from the other angle it did look like he did that. however there was contact with the helmet which I think is impossible to avoid while leading with the shoulder in the fashion/ angle that he did.

This is the new NFL and more than not it will be called a penalty, I do not agree with the rule and in my opinion he was not defenseless as was the call. These plays used to be celebrated but now too many people get too caught up in what is perceived as a dirty play.

IT IS NOT DIRTY, IT IS CALLED FOOTBALL!!!!
Dirty is James Harrison and Vontaze Bufict!

Anyone recall watching John Lynch, Chuck Cecil or Steve Atwater??? Those guys routinely made plays a heck of a lot more dangerous than that of Peppers and were rarely flagged.

Not only it was a clear helmet to helmet hit, Peppers didn't make the play on the ball, he clearly targets the helmet, but also there was a PI before.

It was a dirty play and it was a good call,IMHO. If only he can stop playing for the highlights and starts doing his job..

Typical Peppers move, He's always throwing his body around, leading tackles with his head... Should know better by now..

Still a mystery why so many people defend this guy, not only is the worst player on the field but we have to see him celebrating his plays after conceding 15-20 yds...

Clearly we saw a different game. I didn't see anything dirty and I didn't see Peppers lead with his head.

Didn't make a play on the ball?

He doesn't have to. The ball was bobbling in the player's hands. Going for the ball pertains to when the ball is in the air before it's in the receiver's hands.........


Peppers lead with his shoulder at full speed on a guy bobbling a catch on the sideline (who had the DB beat behind him). Their heads collided after his shoulder hit him.


It wasn't a dirty play. And clearly we aren't seeing the same thing

HE does not lead with his shoulders, the position of his arms is indicative. He spears himself to the head,taking his feet of the ground.

He does not have to play the ball, my reply was to a poster claiming he made a play on the ball.

The intention was to hit and possibly hurt the WR, good call from the referees.

Bad play from Peppers that had several different choices and went with the one who costed us the most.

And if the WR wasn't defenseless than it was a fumble...

I see him leading with his left shoulder. That's what hit the guy first. That's what I see. Especially from the replay they showed during the game.


We'll just disagree on this I guess.



Missed on what you were saying to the last poster though.

Looks like someone wears Scarlet & Grey spectacles and still can't get over the fact that Peppers played for UM.


Once again, I can see it being called a penalty. But calling it a dirty play does not add up.

My initial thought when only having the angle we got on replays yesterday was they BLEW THE CALL ...

After seeing the angle dude posted on here today ... i 100% see how they made the call ...

They saw the head snap and no one had an angle on this play that the shoulder made contact first ... ANGLES ANGLES ANGLES ... think of where the officials are ... think of the view they had of the play ... and the HEAD SNAP is almost automatic ... they get there asses reamed for missing those ... SAFETY is the reason on that one ...

If u want to argue verbiage ... thats valid ... at the end of the day .. they got the call right ... and more importantly to them ...

I’ll gaurantee U that the officials that made this call both got a POSITIVE REVIEW from their supervisor on this call .. GAURANTEE IT ...

They BEAT THE TAPE on this one .. and thats all they care about ...

Officials are used to being berated by the armchair refs ... if they cared about that ... they’d last about 5 minutes .. *L* ...

Have fun and enjoy ringing your hands over this one .. pretty sure there not going to change the call at this point ...

When you lead with the shoulder you don't take your feet from the ground and raise your arms...

Its clear that he was aiming high to hit.

The sound and the movement on the play is indicative, and IMHO there should be no question of JP's intentions, it was to hit and hurt and not to tackle or strip the ball.

Good call, lets hope he learns from this and does not get a pass. Next time just make the easy tackle....

The call was BS. The Refs ruled that Peppers hit was hitting a defenseless receiver using this rule:

"Prohibited contact against a player who is in a defenseless posture is:

forcibly hitting the defenseless player’s head or neck area with the helmet, facemask, forearm, or shoulder, even if the initial contact is lower than the player’s neck, and regardless of whether the defensive player also uses his arms to tackle the defenselessplayer by encircling or grasping him."

The problem was the receiver was no longer a defenseless receiver as he had already taken two steps.

Saw quite a few Browns fans on social media trying to play the whole "if you weren't such a bad team, you wouldn't be in position to get screwed by a call like that" card.

Yeah, no.

I don't know if some of our incredibly dumb fanbase realizes this, but you can be a horrible football team (like we are) and still get jobbed on calls.

Every week games come down to the wire, and it should be no different if it's the Browns or the Patriots getting jobbed on a call. It's still a bad call.

That was an atrocious call by the referees. The league needs to do a better job of being consistent with the way games are called.

With all that said, it's such a kick in the balls to see other teams create offense so easily, and we struggle just to get into the red zone, and once we're there, it's somehow even harder.

We don't make plays. We constantly have to settle. The offense makes a few plays, and the defense gives it right back. It's like some facet of this team has to be the one to let everyone down.

I really hope Kizer can work on his accuracy. I think a lot of his other flaws are typical rookie mistakes, and are coachable. He needs a lot of work, but anyone who is ready to just write the kid off, should probably look at the entire situation as a whole. You asked a 21 year old kid just out of college to be the savior for a team that has been a complete mess for a long time.

Speaking of ANGLES...the ref who threw the flag was quite a ways away from the play and had NO ANGLE to make that call. The ref who saw the play from the ANGLE of looking at the faces of the players did not throw his flag. That refs ANGLE was much, much better than that of the ref who threw the flag.

I think the flag-throwing ref called what he "thought" he saw. Same with the ridiculous PI against McCourty...talk about an awful call. We are a bad team and we get these "I thought I saw a foul" flags with regularity.

How the refs missed the Bengal LT regularly hugging Garret was remarkable. A foul that they COULD see...wasn't called. There was a hold against a Browns WR on 3rd down that was somehow "not seen" as well. It was actually a terrific play by Kizer as he saw the WR in one-on-one and threw the ball that direction immediately after the hold. How the refs "missed" that call is beyond me...maybe another bad ANGLE.

The Bengal OL was not called for holding all day...even though Garret was eating up their LT.

In the end, IF Coleman makes the TD catch...BBC makes the INT...Gonzo makes the FG...it's a different game.

so he fumble the ball there and it should have been spotted where it went out?

IMO, the problem with the Peppers flag was Peppers' head. If he had hit more with his shoulder/hadn't dropped his head, he'd be fine. Ignoring, for a moment, the helmet-to-helmet... man, that kid can hit hard! Separated the ball from the receiver, and in slow-mo you just see the receivers body take flight. If he hadn't hit with his helmet, all that good stuff would've still happened.

So I guess it's all about Pepper's penalty. Where did the ball end up? Was it out of bounds? If so and was ruled a catch due to a third foot down, it still would have been a big gain for the Bengals. Or was it in bounds and would have been recovered by the good guys. I honestly don't remember and already deleted from DVR.

The problem with the rule is if you want them to hit lower, how do you not lead with your head?

You expect someone to sprint at 4.4 forty speed across a field and hit someone in the "strikezone" without dropping their head?
I think trying to avoid helmet to helmet contact and not lead with it is the only reason his helmet grazed the bottom of the receiver's facemask. If a ballcarrier is properly holding the football high and tight, where is your head supposed to go when trying to dislodge the ball? Unless the headless horseman starts playing football, a tackler's helmet is going to contact other players.

Sure breaking down and form tackling sounds lovely, but, when it's only you and a guy who runs a 4.3 motoring along the sideline and you're coming on at an angle at a dead sprint, to hit him solidly you've got to put your helmet in front of him and due to the fact that the receiver's momentum is moving forward there is inevitably going to be some contact when his body stops moving and his helmet whips forward.