DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Haslam Decision Time II

Of course he is being spoon-fed. Everyone knows he is being spoon-fed.

However, he is throwing people under the bus with that comment. Namely, his QB, but it could be against the FO too. This just after Sunday night Kirksey goes to bat for his coach and players. And then the week before Hue says (correctly, I'd might add) "Its all on me". Now, we're "not equipped"? It looks inconsistent and deflective. Maybe that's the only thing Hue could thing off in that moment but I don't think it was a wise thing to say.

There are a group of "fans" on this board who sure seem to question Hue's ability and character a lot. The nit-pick every little thing he says and does and make mountains out of mole hills.

Yet, the players all seem to think highly of him. He is popular w/players past and present. He is universally highly respected by the players in the NFL. Even a guy like Osweiler [who was released by the Browns] had high praise for what Hue did for him.

I am going to say that the players know more about Hue than some fans on a message board do. It is my opinion that the fans on this message board who rip Hue all the time are huge fans of the FO and are consistently trying to deflect blame by bashing Hue.

I also think almost everyone was informed that this plan would take time and that consistently campaigning to get the coach fired is not going to help the plan succeed.

In the middle of the quarter at the goal line, Hue wasn't equipped to get a play called (and in) without burning a timeout...again. That timeout (wasted) would have been nice to have a little later at the goal line (again) with time running out (again).

I think there is a pattern here. And NO...I do not want Hue fired. Just pointing out - with real actual examples - why he is as responsible for this mess as is anyone.

In the 11th game of the year, I would expect he could coach/play-call a bunch of accountants to run more than one play in 20 seconds.

Romeo Crennel was loved by his players---how'd he do as a HC? Just because players love you or think highly of you, doesn't mean you're gonna be successful. Maybe they like him for all the wrong reasons, I don't know, but it surely doesn't equate to being a good HC.

And yes, I question Hue's character quite a bit, actually. Particularly, recently, with his leaking in the media and his PR stunts. I think it was a huge issue and very unprofessional. And it's not confined to his time in Cleveland, either. But, having said that, conversely, having poor character doesn't mean you'll necessarily be a bad HC. I can just mean your a crappy person. Crappy people can be good at their jobs.

Bottom line---players liking you or people in the NFL liking you (which I don't even know if this is remotely true outside of Cincinnati and the Silver/Trask combo-- in fact, I've heard the contrary) means very little to me.

Disclaimer: I don't him fired. (Just don't want you to include me in with your broad stoke assumptions of poster views on here.....again)

I would argue that a pattern has been mistakes in these situations. Kizer has botched a few in the red-zone with the pressure on to manage time. Most recently, the clumsy sneak attempt.

I wonder if he didn't have time to get a play in, or if he has some lingering doubts about how well that play can be run in such a limited amount of time.

I'm sure "the league" and players throughout the league are infatuated with Hue's actual game coaching and time management and play-calling and red-zone efficiency and declining of 15 yard penalties. These are areas where he is actually, visually not doing a very good job. Not some fluff about how others surely "feel" about Hue.

You talk all this fluff that cannot be "proven" then ask other posters for PROOF of their opinions. Did you really just mention Brock Osweiler in an attempt to prove a point?

I do not want Hue - or anyone other than Tabor - to be fired. But Hue's fingerprints are all over this 0-11 team and the QB room. Deflecting blame to the FO - even going so far as saying they are more-responsible for the record than is Hue - is ridiculous agenda-posting. To his credit, Hue is "owning it"...well mostly owning it...most of the time...sort of.

They ALL need to do a better job. I think 90+% of this Board sees it that way as well. Hue and the FO are all "guilty"...they are all "at fault"...they all need to do a better job.

I was not just talking about "liking" him. I think it is important to note that they do like and respect him when so many people are questioning his character.

I'm sure he called that timeout in an effort to "get it right" and not have the drive go to waste again. It's not a stupid move. However, in the 11th game of the year we shouldn't continue to see timeouts being called as the play clock evaporates.

We shouldn't call timeouts to pull the field goal team off the field only to then run Crow - of all people - up the Guard's butt. When Hue made the play-call that he did on 3rd down, he was NOT considering what he would do if the play didn't work (meaning go for it on 4th down). He wasn't ready and he let the emotion of the situation take over.

The rookie QB - who apparently isn't equipped to run more than one play in 20 seconds - should not have the choice to audible into an option at the goal line or a QB sneak from the 2 1/2 yard line with no timeouts left.

My biggest issue with Hue is that he calls plays as if he has all the talent he needs....when he doesn't have that talent. Then he makes ridiculous decisions and post-game comments that leave me wondering why he does/just-did what he does/just-did.

Are we equipped though?

We are without the best LT in the game. Our two best defensive players are out for the season. Meder, a good rotational player, is out for the season. Britt is a dud, Coleman literally just got back.

And we are essentially playing defense with no FS.

Don’t get me started on Louis and Higgins.

Where did you hear all the players love him? Just curious.

I think it's warranted to question his character recently. It's also warranted to question his character w/o being labeled as wanting him fired. Keep that in mind too.

Additionally, what article, from a player while that same coach is still with the team, says anything bad about said coach? Honestly. I'm sure there are some instances here or there, but you always see a player talking up his coach.

Why? I think the answer to that is quite obvious.

You guys can question his character and ability all you want. I can also defend him by pointing out that current and past players have said very good things about Hue.

I think the opinions of the players carry more weight than the opinions of fans.

I think the performance of the coach and his team carries more weight than whether players/"the league" like said coach.

If we wanted a coach the players liked and was well respected around the NFL, we'd still have Romeo.

romeo led us to the best record we had since the return so....

I didn't think Romeo was nearly as bad as people made him out to be. Romeo and Chud should have def been given another year, IMO.

And yet it's the opinion of fans that drive decision making, often times. Just ask Tennessee and Greg Schiano.

So what? That means very little considering where this team has been.

He probably watches television or talks to other people.

Dude, it's been all over since Hue got here.

Best record in a season, on a tenure its Butch Davis, who also has the best season measured in playoff appearances.

I find it very hard to believe the players like Hue considering the way the veterans were handled...

Also its very hard to believe that players like a losing coach...

Also very hard to believe reintegrating a player that played and practiced under the influence is going to appeal to the players....

Oh great! Then all you have to do is show me... I'll stand by.

A couple great points that have been made on previous threads that I feel apply here.

1) It is very difficult to win in the NFL without solid QB play. There was an article laid out on one thread that went into detail about how important good QB play is.

One need only look at the GB packers to see this. When Rogers was removed we saw a Super Bowl team turn to a Browns-like team over night.

It has been debated/ argued many times on here about why we don't have Wentz/ Watson/ Jimmy G. but I feel the FO had a plan in place to improve talent, then go after the QB while hoping to get lucky and win 3-4 games in the process. This has also been posted by numerous DawgTalkers. It hasn't happened and seats have gotten hot because of it. But, would we rather win 0-1 games and get the #1 pick. or win 3-4 and pick somewhere in the 4-6 range. We all want to win, but if we can sacrifice 3-5 wins over the last 2 years to give us a better foundation, I can't be too upset about it.

The Browns are now in a position to draft a quality QB (which could turn out to be Luck/ Wentz or Leaf/ RGIII). I feel we need to draft Rosen/ Darnold at #1 sign a quality veteran and hope that Kizer makes huge strides. If we can not land a FA such as Cousins, Alex Smith or McCarron I am not opposed to trading up into the 1st round for a 3rd 1st round pick and draft Jackson or Mayfield as well. I feel we have the draft capital lets use it.

2) Nobody has been perfect and both the FO & Hue should be on the hot seat. I feel Hue's seat is slightly hotter due to some key game management issues as well as his leaking team laundry to the media. There is no doubt in my mind that quite a few game time errors by Hue would be fixed with the addition of an OC to help clear a bit off His plate.

I feel that if Hue does not get an OC for next season, he will be making many of the same mistakes he has made the last 2 years. That would be unacceptable. And I could see him being fired during the season next year if the Browns began the season 0-4.

There is no arguing that Hue has the players ready to play week in and week out. They play hard despite all the negatives swirling around Berea.

Year 3 of this process. The FO needs to hit on a QB and WR this draft to cool their seat. At the same time 2-3 FA's are a must (WR, LB & S/CB).

TP at WR along with Gordon, Coleman and a high draft pick could definitely make one of our sub par units a strength. I would also look to add depth all over our defensive backfield. The choice is going to be between a DB or WR with the Houston 1st round pick IMO.

Overall, I feel many on this forum agree that neither party has been perfect, but both have shown enough to be retained one more year. Obviously there are some outliers but you will have that.

3) The fan base is desperate! This puts a lot of pressure on Haslam to please a starved fan base. The result is what you have seen over the previous 4 years. A quick trigger only to reset this franchise and ensure we go from 5 wins to 3 wins to 1 win to 0 wins. I feel Haslem has to keep this thing together. Pay big money to a committee of 4-5 people and see what they think. After the season have Bill Polian and 3-4 others like him evaluate the franchise. listen to what they say and find a way to implement their suggestions.

If I recall, Haslam and Farmer paid a group to find the QB 4 years ago. That firm suggested Teddy B. We took J. Manziel. This is yet another example of why we are still paying for Farmers horrible drafts.

4) There are more disgruntled fan bases than satisfied ones.
NE, PHI, Pit, GB, NO (this year) and LA Rams have satisfied fan bases.

KC, SEA, DEN,Oak,CAR,ATL, Bal, WASH, CIN & Hou (HOU could be in the prior group if Watson was healthy) all seem to have frustrated fan bases as well. KC could also be in the prvios group but until they make a deep playoff run I doubt the fans are too content. Only 12 teams make the playoffs and if your one of the 20 on the outside looking in, it really doesn't matter if you win 4 games or 7 games. These franchises have had some success recently but have not been able to sustain playoff success at the level that is expected from their fans. SEA has had success but without improving their OL and the injuries on D, it has been a trying couple years since their last SB appearance.

Then there are the Browns, Bills, NYJ, NYG, MIA, SD, SF, AZ, IND, TEN, TB & Jax (who are playing better now but let us see if they can sustain multiple seasons & they probably won't be content until they get a QB or Bortles improves). These franchises have the same problems as the Browns and all look to be a few years away from sustained playoff success.

So the point of all this, is we are not alone. Although a few of the struggling franchise's have had some success recently, they are on the downward swing right now. All are trying to figure it out. I am sure most of these teams have forums where blaming the FO/ HC is routine. My hope is that in the next 2 years we can climb into the mediocre group and then the Playoff success group. I think we have laid a foundation over the last couple years and this draft will be key to going from 1-3 wins to 7-9.

Go Browns!!!!!!!!!!

Stop trying to get Hue fired!

But we are the worst, we are dead last, and we've been failing longer than anyone. So there's that.

Carder and Collins are out, that's 11 years of experience at LB, Joe Thomas is out thats the best LT in the bidness and 11 years of experience out, Kenny Britt is a waste of time, the next guy with experience is McCourty with 9 years and hes on the downside of his career.. the next guy is Colquitt.. with 8 years.. woohoo we have an experienced punter!!

This team is so young and lacking experience.. in the next few years if we can stick with the program, we are going to be a hell of a team.. youth and experience will go a long ways to playoffs.

I really don't want to blow things up again.

I forgot ... what was Romeo’s playoff record with us ... ...

Some folks don’t have very high standards .... mine are set a little higher than NO PLAYOFF APPEARANCES ....

Of all the crap that has been spewed on this thread, and you choose to side w/the guys who are spewing most of it?????

You can be competitive without top notch QB..Cowher and Marty did it for years but folks have forgotten.

If there wasn't a top Qb in reach, then you stack your backfield with high picks at RB and Defense and you run the damn ball and play solid D and field position...Cowher had winning seasons with Kordell flipping Stewart for petes sake using this exact model.

So the Browns could have taken:

2015 draft - Todd Gurley - 1,106 rushing yards and 10 Td as a rookie)
2016 Draft - Ezekial Elliot 1,631 yards and 15 Td's as a rookie)

Yes the Browns could have taken two high caliber RB in the draft early instead of a dman Qb, still got Myles Garret, and ran the damn ball down peoples throats and played good D and field position and atleast be flipping competitive with an 8-8 or better record and just keep stocking picks into D, OL, and Rb until a Qb falls into your lap...

but nope...we keep drafting Qb, and if they are not Tom Brady out the get, they are benched and trashed...its no wonder we can't win...with a two headed monster of a running game like that, you don't ask your Qb to do much...complete 15 passes a game maybe, move the chains a little, don't make mistakes and your in it till the end...

you can win the NFL without a premier QB, if you have a stable of good RB in your backfield that will let you run the ball..

too think, right now we could have both Elliot and Gurley in our backfield right now....and we would probably have 7-8 wins by the years end....be the best RB combo we have had since the Mack and Byner days and we passed on them both...lol

Sashi Brown isn't even trying to win....we need to get rid of Jackson, Brown, and Depodesta on that fact alone...if they were serious about trying to win, we wouldn't have the terrible roster we have right now..unreal...

I don't think we need to get rid of anyone. I also think that "getting rid" of people has been a huge factor why we are in this position.

So it really is all about taking sides, isn't it? So funny and ironic that you would post this.....

There is only one opinion allowed on Vers' football board.

It'd be a heck of a lot easier to take if they weren't winless on the year and near winless total!

Yes, but that doesn't make it any less true.

Of course it is about sides. Your side defends the FO no matter what and either blast Hue or anyone who dares question them. The other side is fair.

LOL

I thought you had him on ignore.

He has a lot of people "on ignore."


Where is this thread at again?
Did we ever figure out any more about the Singletary interview?

Is the Haslam decision going to be to plead guilty or to plea bargain?

'REPORT | Jimmy Haslam's voice heard in Pilot Flying J training session at which fraud was taught'

http://www.wkyc.com/sports/nfl/browns/re...aught/495215418
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I wouldn't be surprised at all if he eventually ends up doing some time in prison.

"Behind every great fortune lies a great crime."

Man! People are freaking about calling a TO at the end of the half while Jimmy Haslam is looking like a crook.

I really don't think he will get away with this now that they have his voice in the meeting. And to tell ya the truth? He shouldn't get away with it.

He will probably do less than a couple of years at a minimum security prison and be released early for good behavior. The rich are different.